Nader writing a new book

[LETSFIGHTBACK]

Ralph Nader was on C-span's book TV, he said he is writing a new book that will, get this, "get the people angry, upset and make them politically active" lol lol lol. So ONLY his book will do this. The fact that there is an over 17% unemployment rate, over 5 million foreclosures, hundreds of thousands of evictions, food pantries on the rise, whole neighborhoods being raised, massive poverty, hunger, in Detroit alone, 200,000 had their untilities shut off this past winter, this wouldn't get people "upset and angry", no no, only his book will accomplish this.It's like I said in other threads, we are not dealing with a politically active population of the 1930's. when the hell are we going to create a movement that looks to the future instead of the past?when will we begin to learn from what is being born instead of what is dying. Marx tried to do just that, he tried to evoke a futuristic spirit in the revolutionary movement of the 1840's and 1850's "the tradition of all the dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brain of the living, and just when they seem to be creating something entirely new, precisely in such epochs of revolutionary crisis they anxiously conjure up the spirits of the past to their service and borrow from them names, battle slogans and costumes in order to present the new scene of world history in this time honored disguise and borrowed language". Untill we begin to examin why people are not responding, why they are satisfied with mediocrity,and untill the "left ceases to harbor all the old leftist positions ie with attacks on their standard of living, the people will finally rise up blah blah blah" and does not shed these old, worn out party positions, and begin to thoroughly investigate and discuss the psychology of the people today, as Marx said "you will not get a flea hop closer" I will add, "to progress, but will continue to be stuck in the past".

[Rakhmetov]

I watched part of that CSpan interview and I enjoyed what I saw, especially Nader's favorite books. Nice list.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvoPc6seigE&NR=1

[Rakhmetov]

Hey I found the C Span link. It is 3 hours long

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/294832-1

[Jimmie Higgins]

You something, let's not waste time discussing paragraphs, or how long it was. Let's FOCUS on the content, what the post is conveying, which is a hell of alot more important. This the so called "left", how sad.Because frankly, it's wasn't clear what your main point was. All I could get out of that is that you, like we all are, are frustrated with the status-quo and relative passivity in the working class right now. The rest of it was just half an attack on the whole left and half an attack on "history"? As comradly advise: I find it works better to have constructive criticism of the left, rather than just say that the left is useless and all wrong etc.

I don't think Marx was criticizing people's "traditions" in the sense of their own revolutionary traditions, but on "tradition" as in custom from feudalism and capitalism hanging on. Marx was not interesed in understanding the past..? Lol.

We have a great deal to learn from history and I think people haven't learned enough lessons from the past since the majority of workers keep making the same mistakes: people vote for the Democrats and then get confused when they don't deliver... just like every other single time! But as a radical, history and the lessons of past movements are ONLY useful to us in what it can help us accomplish in our own unique historical situations.

Nader:
As much as Nader can sometimes think that he is the only person who cares about things (he's a bit naive in thinking that liberal politicians and pundits are actually as sincere as he is, IMO, and so I think that causes him to get frustrated when he is then betrayed by these people) I doubt he thinks of his book as the new engine for social change - I think he was probably just arguing that in his view, the book is designed in order to try and activate people. Michael Moore has said similar things about "Capitalism a Love Story" - that he want people to get mad when watching it.

[Jimmie Higgins]

That is part of the problem, the left is intolerant of criticism.Much of what the left does is endless self-criticism and that prompts people to say "why don't you anarchists and all the socialists just get together".

This is a debate forum where much of what people are doing is criticizing this or that tactic or political position. Personally, your criticisms just seem to be a general frustration that the left is not able to do more without any specific criticism or ideas of what should be done differently, and so if you have a specific problem and an idea of a solution, then I think people will be more receptive to your complaints and we can all discuss them in a reasonable way.


party robotsLol. Cmoney, are you a party robot? I'm a party animal :D

[LETSFIGHTBACK]

Much of what the left does is endless self-criticism and that prompts people to say "why don't you anarchists and all the socialists just get together".

This is a debate forum where much of what people are doing is criticizing this or that tactic or political position. Personally, your criticisms just seem to be a general frustration that the left is not able to do more without any specific criticism or ideas of what should be done differently, and so if you have a specific problem and an idea of a solution, then I think people will be more receptive to your complaints and we can all discuss them in a reasonable way.

Lol. Cmoney, are you a party robot? I'm a party animal :D

1-Agreed.
2-lol lol lol party animal, I like that.

[Pretty Flaco]

I hope it's a good book.

[The Douche]

Lol. Cmoney, are you a party robot? I'm a party animal :D

Yeah man, RAAN has a real big problem with everybody involved being mechanistic party robots.:laugh:


That is part of the problem, the left is intolerant of criticism.

Lets truly see who is intolerant of criticism, shall we?

My first post was this:


I tried reading your post but got tired. You should really break it up, thats a serious wall of text.

A little bit of critiscism which I think was fair, considering a number of other posters agreed.

Your response:


If you got tired reading my post, which isn't that long, then I guess you don't read that many books.

You got defensive and made a snarky personal insult.


His response is one example of how Intolerant these party robots are when one expresses an opinion that is not spoon fed by the party hierarchy

You don't know me or anything about me, clearly. I am about as far as you can get from a "party robot". I don't even believe in formal organization. You will also notice that I made a positive comment about your post after I cleaned it up for you, but you ignored that cause you'd rather get in a pissing match. (which you started, as we see above)


To call someone a dick, is this someone that has the ability to communicate intelligently with people?

You set the negative tone for the conversation, not me.


I really think he needs to aquire some social skills before he does any party work which involves debating, because this is when his childish nature rears it's ugly head.

I do not, nor will I ever be doing any "party work". When I am insulted by somebody on the internet who is butthurt cause somebody said they should put some paragraphs into their forum post, I really don't feel any need to respond in some principled manner. Cause it wouldn't do any good.



Are you ready to drop this now?

[What Would Durruti Do?]

I don't see what is so silly about Nader saying his book will upset people and make them politically active. It very well might.

There's no decent leftist movement in this country so something has to agitate people.

[RadioRaheem84]

Well the situation is bad right now, I wouldn't mind a populist bourgeois liberal stirring up something!

[Nachie]

RAAN egged Ralph Nader in DC while he was giving a speech about his last book. How fucking sweet would it be if we had the chance to do it again...

[RadioRaheem84]

RAAN egged Ralph Nader in DC while he was giving a speech about his last book. How fucking sweet would it be if we had the chance to do it again...


http://redanarchist.org/propaganda/fucklenin.pdf

what the blunt is this?

[The Douche]

http://redanarchist.org/propaganda/fucklenin.pdf

what the blunt is this?

Exactly what it says. Our analysis of Leninism is that it is anti-communist.

[RadioRaheem84]

Exactly what it says. Our analysis of Leninism is that it is anti-communist.

I'll just leave it at that.

[LETSFIGHTBACK]

I don't see what is so silly about Nader saying his book will upset people and make them politically active. It very well might.

There's no decent leftist movement in this country so something has to agitate people.



That was all the thread was about. Thank you for comprehending my post. All I was trying to convey was the fact that with all the misery, poverty, homelessness, evictions, foreclosers, hunger etc, Where are the riots, marches, where is the anger?

So the question was, how can his book accomplish what real life experiences fail to accomplish.

[The Douche]

I think we all agree that the working class is not very militant right now in the states, but why do you guys think a populist liberal can wake them up? Why would that even be good? We don't want progressive to mobilize the masses, that will not result in revolution. We need to figure out how we can highlight the contradictions in class society.

[LETSFIGHTBACK]

I think we all agree that the working class is not very militant right now in the states, but why do you guys think a populist liberal can wake them up? Why would that even be good? We don't want progressive to mobilize the masses, that will not result in revolution. We need to figure out how we can highlight the contradictions in class society.

What needs to be done is to convey to people the possiblities that exist.
What exists, and what could be.Not to bring ourselves down to the level of a Democrat.

Peoples imagination is dead, they can't imagine anything different than they have now. They think that the way they are living is normal.

They think that there is nothing wrong with putting a price tag on life, ie paying for food, housing, medical care etc is normal.

And as long as they continue not to view this economic system as irrational and inhuman, and as long as they do not question how society is organized socially and economically, no party is going to make a dent.

[The Douche]

I don't think post people think our society is "ok", I think they're under the impression that there is no real alternative. We know that there is, so it needs to be us, and not people like Nader who are waking people up. Nader can only bring on a slightly nicer capitalism.

[LETSFIGHTBACK]

I don't think post people think our society is "ok", I think they're under the impression that there is no real alternative. We know that there is, so it needs to be us, and not people like Nader who are waking people up. Nader can only bring on a slightly nicer capitalism.



Well, when I hear poor people make comments like "there's no free lunch" "if you got an education and made a good living, you wouldn't be *****ing,
"I worked for what I have, why don't you do the same" or my favorite " what do you expect, to get health care for free" they are clues into the mindset of people.

[The Douche]

Well, when I hear poor people make comments like "there's no free lunch" "if you got an education and made a good living, you wouldn't be *****ing,
"I worked for what I have, why don't you do the same" or my favorite " what do you expect, to get health care for free" they are clues into the mindset of people.

But when the media is screaming accusations of socialism at a candidate (wrong as they might be), and he still gets elected, without ever making his politics clear, just claiming "hope", I think that is a clue as well.

US society is very divided, there are a lot of people who want a better world but don't know how to make one. And then there are a lot of people who like you show above, are just out of it.

[RadioRaheem84]

I think we all agree that the working class is not very militant right now in the states, but why do you guys think a populist liberal can wake them up? Why would that even be good? We don't want progressive to mobilize the masses, that will not result in revolution. We need to figure out how we can highlight the contradictions in class society.

I can't speak for anyone else but Nader has some media cred and I am only hoping that he would launch some sort of left leaning outrage in the country, but I wouldn't hold my breath. He is pretty narcissistic to say that his book will do the trick though.

[Crux]

Exactly what it says. Our analysis of Leninism is that it is anti-communist.
And what a clever analysis that is.

[Nachie]

Yes, it's so awkward that we base ourselves off of actual lived experience and a serious understanding of why revolutions have been betrayed instead of just marching around with glazed eyes chanting that the Sun revolves around the Earth. :rolleyes:

[The Douche]

And what a clever analysis that is.

If you want to discuss RAAN's view of Leninism we should start a new thread, cause that will take this one on a ten page derailment fest.

[Communist]

.
I trashed all the arguing. Stay on track here please.

.

[Red Commissar]

I can't speak for anyone else but Nader has some media cred and I am only hoping that he would launch some sort of left leaning outrage in the country, but I wouldn't hold my breath. He is pretty narcissistic to say that his book will do the trick though.

It will really all depend on the timing of the book's release and whether it holds relevant or not. Most it could do is though is re-energize some elements of the liberals who were active in discourse before hand.

Unfortunately though, I think if he went against a Beck book or that Newt book coming out near election time, he would have issues.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

People don't learn from reading. People learn through struggle. This is a terrific example of the terminal liberal nature of Ralph Nader and the Green Party holistically.

People don't learn from reading... are you serious?

It really doesn't make any sense to show such sectarian views towards someone hyping a book that will inspire people to become aware of what goes on politically with maybe some critical thought process. What has Ralph Nader done that was bad? He has had more success than anyone in recent times at challenging the 2 party US political system, which is really a 1 class dictatorship. I'm not saying that electing Nader would end capitalism, but breaking the 2 party system is the only way to create a strong working class party.