Travelling

[Smokin']

There doesn't seem to be a right place to put this, but apologies if it should be elsewhere.

I first became interested in this cause a couple of years ago, but I didn't have any intense beliefs. Recently though, I've travelled and seeing the world, gives you a much bigger perspective than just reading about the problems in the world. I'm hoping that this year, I can travel some more. I'm hoping to go through Europe and then south.

Which leads me to ask. Have any of your opinions changed, since becoming more aware through travel? Is travel essential?

If anyone is interested in a similar trip, I'd be happy to discuss it, if you're serious and would like to come along.

Thanks.

[Widerstand]

Where have you been already, and what did you do there, how long'd you stay? I wouldn't say I'm much interested in full time traveling at the moment, but I thought about doing this after University maybe, and I want to travel in my free time as much as possible. I definitely agree that it broadens your perspective to see things first hand.

[Smokin']

Where have you been already, and what did you do there, how long'd you stay? I wouldn't say I'm much interested in full time traveling at the moment, but I thought about doing this after University maybe, and I want to travel in my free time as much as possible. I definitely agree that it broadens your perspective to see things first hand.
I spent most of last year travelling. America, Australia, Asia and Europe. In a couple of weeks, I'll be driving through Europe again.

The biggest 'shock' was America. It just seems like such a shallow culture. A change is needed there, enormously.

The most valuable experience was staying in a hostel in Australia. I met people who shared similar thoughts but were proactive, and a big thing for me, was talking to and learning from two great Nepalese friends.

I have limitations though, especially language. I spoke to an Iranian girl in depth and I'd certainly like to head through there when I head out on the big trip I'm planning.

[ed miliband]

I can't afford to travel far and wide and perhaps that is for the best - there is something grossly petit-bourgeois* about travelling 'to find yourself' and from a socialist perspective I don't think travelling is at all necessary. Still, it's probably a valuable experience and if I could travel more widely I would.

*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKFjWR7X5dU

[Magón]

I spent most of last year travelling. America, Australia, Asia and Europe. In a couple of weeks, I'll be driving through Europe again.

The biggest 'shock' was America. It just seems like such a shallow culture. A change is needed there, enormously.

The most valuable experience was staying in a hostel in Australia. I met people who shared similar thoughts but were proactive, and a big thing for me, was talking to and learning from two great Nepalese friends.

I have limitations though, especially language. I spoke to an Iranian girl in depth and I'd certainly like to head through there when I head out on the big trip I'm planning.

This whole thread I agree with you, that travel is essential to get a really good view of the world and what your ideology could do, etc. And I especially agree with your comment on America's shallow culture. Having been born here in the US, but moving a year after to Mexico, it's shown me something of America that most Americans who are born and grow up here don't see.

As for where I've visited. I did a lot of traveling as a boy, and went back when I was older. First was obviously it was Mexico, then Cuba (only twice), and I spent a month with an ex-girlfriend in Venezuela. I've also been through Northern Brazil, but only as a boy so I don't know how much has changed since my travel through. I've also been to Southern Spain as a young boy and as I got older, I went there on my 25th birthday. I've also been to Canada which I wasn't very interested in anyway.

As for how my travels changed my outlook, they changed them immensely. Looking through a National Geo. or watching the Discovery Channel, you don't see what you do when you're actually there. (Obviously.) You don't get the same feeling and essence you pick up when visiting. Being that travel is a major part of my job anyway, though lately it's mostly in the US, I've had the chances to see the culture and what the people are like.

European nations that I've been to, for two weeks while working were Southern France, Austria, and the island of Sardegna. I also had some trouble with language, but seeing how most of my trips are spent in South American nations, it's not so hard. But places like Spain, the people talk very fast, and I often ask them to slow it down because they get so excited. :lol:

[Os Cangaceiros]

I've travelled extensively in North America (the USA, Canada and Mexico). I like travelling a lot.

The biggest 'shock' was America. It just seems like such a shallow culture. A change is needed there, enormously.

I doubt that America is any more or less shallow than the UK, Japan or any other comparable modernized nation. And that's not to mention the fact that "American culture" is extremely diverse...referring to "American culture" assumes that a white farmer in North Dakota shares the same culture with a black person living on a Southern bayou who shares the same culture with a Chinese immigrant in New York City.

[Bijan Li Causi X]

i tried but was an abject faliure at that too, which seems to be the only constant in a cacoon of emptyness and uselesness

[leftace53]

I sort of agree with aufklben that travelling isn't necessary to "find yourself", but I do feel that travelling is quite important simply from a "see the world" perspective. I love history, art, and food, and those are what I want to travel for, seeing historical sites, and whatnot. I like hearing various perspectives, and the biggest variety I found was talking to people who live in a completely different culture than yours. Even just moving from Eastern Canada to Ontario, I found a large difference in "how people do things".

I've only been to England, France, India, Singapore, Canada and America, but would like to visit South America thoroughly. I would also love to visit the middle east for its rich history in well everything, but having to follow religious customs (I've heard not so fun stories from people who have visited there) that I find oppressive just puts me off of travelling there. While I don't have the money right now, I am saving up for a long trip across the world after university.

[Magón]

I can't afford to travel far and wide and perhaps that is for the best - there is something grossly petit-bourgeois* about travelling 'to find yourself' and from a socialist perspective I don't think travelling is at all necessary. Still, it's probably a valuable experience and if I could travel more widely I would.

*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKFjWR7X5dU

How is traveling petit-bourgeois when you're traveling to see the world, and get a better understanding of it? You can't understand the world sitting in your home at your computer desk or your couch, looking at your t.v. You have to see the world and the people yourself, because when it comes time for revolution, who'll know more of how to handle ones culture?

Just having the money to travel doesn't make you bourgeois. Like myself, I have to work a whole year, almost non stop before I can have enough money to successfully take in one countries culture(s). I prefer that my time spent in a country, is well worth it, and so I work an entire year just so I can spend the money to stay in a country for a month. And trust me, having the money to do that, isn't easy, and when you finally get there, it's very rewarding to meet the people. It would be bourgeois if I went there intent on learning nothing from the culture, and rather learning, I'd be taking.

[Os Cangaceiros]

How is traveling petit-bourgeois when you're traveling to see the world, and get a better understanding of it?

I don't think that he meant that travelling in and of itself was "petit-bourgeois"; I think he meant that the mentality of "I'm gonna travel to 'find myself'" is a "petit-bourgeois mentality".

[Raúl Duke]

The biggest 'shock' was America. It just seems like such a shallow culture. A change is needed there, enormously.

I doubt that America is any more or less shallow than the UK, Japan or any other comparable modernized nation. And that's not to mention the fact that "American culture" is extremely diverse...referring to "American culture" assumes that a white farmer in North Dakota shares the same culture with a black person living on a Southern bayou who shares the same culture with a Chinese immigrant in New York City. I agree with this...

When I went to Italy I realized that people are people, some are shallow and some are quite interesting; perhaps the ration between the 2 may differ from country to country but more or less you will encounter both in every country.

The shallowness of American culture only occurs, to me, in very suburban and relatively "new" areas that have no culture, only recently established communities, etc. Florida has many of these areas...a lot.


I don't think that he meant that travelling in and of itself was "petit-bourgeois"; I think he meant that the mentality of "I'm gonna travel to 'find myself'" is a "petit-bourgeois mentality".

I still think that's a wrong perspective. While I find "Into the Wild" style escapades a bit childish (not the traveling, but the reason he uses: i.e. "I'm going to some uninhabited area to find out about myself;" I think you can only learn more if you are exploring cultures and societies rather than isolating yourself) it doesn't make it "petty bourgeois." The way most people use that term is almost rendering it into a useless term.

[ed miliband]

Where did I say travelling was petit-bourgeois? Nowhere. I said that travelling under the guise of 'finding yourself' is. I wasn't being wholly serious but the notion that travelling extensively makes one more enlightened whether politically, culturally or spiritually really does annoy me. Perhaps it's a British phenomena, but it's very common for wealthy students to take gap years and travel to places like Thailand or Brazil or Kenya and find themselves in these locations (and that's what the video I posted parodies - this video has been popular in Britain because it mocks a trend that genuinely exists).

[Magón]

I don't think that he meant that travelling in and of itself was "petit-bourgeois"; I think he meant that the mentality of "I'm gonna travel to 'find myself'" is a "petit-bourgeois mentality".


Where did I say travelling was petit-bourgeois? Nowhere. I said that travelling under the guise of 'finding yourself' is. I wasn't being wholly serious but the notion that travelling extensively makes one more enlightened whether politically, culturally or spiritually really does annoy me. Perhaps it's a British phenomena, but it's very common for wealthy students to take gap years and travel to places like Thailand or Brazil or Kenya and find themselves in these locations (and that's what the video I posted parodies - this video has been popular in Britain because it mocks a trend that genuinely exists).

Gotcha, my mistake.

[Absolut]

I cant say Ive learnt that much from my travels, at least nothing that I can think of right away, but one thing Ive realised is that Ive broadened my horizons quite a bit, experiencing other cultures, the most interesting part I think, is the small differences and nuances between your own culture and the one your visiting. For example, when I went to Australia and was walking down a road, a guy riding a bike comes up behind me, rings his bell, I move to the side and he says "cheers, mate". Ive never heard anyone say that in Sweden when theyve passed me with a bike. I think those small things are one of the most fun parts of travel. Also, what I tend to enjoy the most is the landscape, my favourites so far are New Zealand and Hungary.

As for the places Ive been to, Ive been to the USA, Australia, New Zealand, Hungary, Bulgaria, Greece, the UK (London), Germany, Denmark and Finland.

[genstrike]

It depends on what you mean by travelling, where you are going, why you are going there, what you are going to do there, etc.

I know some people who go to Vegas or Mexico once every year or two just to go to touristy areas and get drunk. To me, that seems like a waste of time, and if you want to develop yourself intellectually, you have to go off the beaten path a little bit.

I don't really do a lot of travel, outside of conferences, that sort of thing. Although, recently I was in Palestine/Israel for two weeks on a solidarity tour with a Jewish group, and I feel that the connections made as well just seeing things firsthand was an amazing experience educationally - even as someone who has been heavily involved with the Palestinian solidarity movement and understands most of this stuff on some intellectual level.

[Raúl Duke]

I know some people who go to Vegas or Mexico once every year or two just to go to touristy areas and get drunk. To me, that seems like a waste of time, and if you want to develop yourself intellectually, you have to go off the beaten path a little bit.

I've seen a bit of this while I was in Italy. While I did get drunk almost every night, I noticed that most of the people who were with me on the study abroad program rarely tried to make connections with the people who lived there, with the Italians.

Even people from higher course-level of Italian than me usualy after class formed groups with their student peers and traveled straight to some tourist place or night-club "for foreigners."

I tried a bit to make connections with the Italians at the pub near my apartment there and many of them seem to have gotten a good impression of me and seemed to like me. I enjoyed interacting with the Italians, it was like I was "exploring" the actual living culture instead of "consuming" the tourist orientated culture of Italy.

[NecroCommie]

Who says traveling needs some ulterior purpose besides learning. Learning is a good thing no matter what about, you can make your enlightened oppinions on your experiences later.

But if anyone intends to stop by in the nordic countries there just might be some floor space in my apartment (depends... I move alot...) ;) Don't expect all the "basic" luxuries of life like microwaves or cars or shit.

[Widerstand]

I've seen a bit of this while I was in Italy. While I did get drunk almost every night, I noticed that most of the people who were with me on the study abroad program rarely tried to make connections with the people who lived there, with the Italians.

Even people from higher course-level of Italian than me usualy after class formed groups with their student peers and traveled straight to some tourist place or night-club "for foreigners."

I tried a bit to make connections with the Italians at the pub near my apartment there and many of them seem to have gotten a good impression of me and seemed to like me. I enjoyed interacting with the Italians, it was like I was "exploring" the actual living culture instead of "consuming" the tourist orientated culture of Italy.

Good point. It's part of why I'm not too enthusiast of randomly traveling and much prefer knowing an actual contact at the place I'll interact with, eg work camps, or maybe even just couch surfers, or friends living there. Usually I find myself too shy to have longer conversations with strangers, especially if I have to approach them.

[Raúl Duke]

Well alcohol helped plus sometimes the Italians would approach me.

I began first with the bartenders, than later it seemed like most of the regulars in the bar knew me in some way. I became somewhat of a "regular."

I also met other foreigners, like Spaniards and Australians.

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

Where did I say travelling was petit-bourgeois? Nowhere. I said that travelling under the guise of 'finding yourself' is. I wasn't being wholly serious but the notion that travelling extensively makes one more enlightened whether politically, culturally or spiritually really does annoy me. Perhaps it's a British phenomena, but it's very common for wealthy students to take gap years and travel to places like Thailand or Brazil or Kenya and find themselves in these locations (and that's what the video I posted parodies - this video has been popular in Britain because it mocks a trend that genuinely exists).

From the UK and yeah its true that you do get a lot of people like that, but actually considering it, if i could travel, i would, despite the sterotypes..i think "finding oneself" probably is a kinda important concern, and i think mabye being away from your family and like, discovering and comparing how you live to different cultures probably does cause a change in outlook and all that they would call finding yourself. I can't see much wrong with it aside from if people go around travelling with some idiotic attitude, like that people in africa are happy CAUSE DEY AREN'T MATERIALIST or that they're branch of white kids making wells are really going to change the world or something.

[Magón]

Well alcohol helped plus sometimes the Italians would approach me.

I began first with the bartenders, than later it seemed like most of the regulars in the bar knew me in some way. I became somewhat of a "regular."

I also met other foreigners, like Spaniards and Australians.

I do have to say, Spaniards and Italians are two of the friendliest sort of people I've ever met. While I was on Sardegna, a couple of Sardinians walked over to me and out of the blue started up a conversation... sadly to say I was a bit rusty in the linguistics department, and had a hell of a time getting things past to them. At first I thought they were drunk, but it turned out they weren't... or maybe they were and I just couldn't tell what a drunk Sardinian looked like. :D Though Spaniards are crazy fun, and easy to talk to. No matter where you go, or where you're staying, the strange Spaniard beside you could always become your best friend. They're almost as uncaring at who they approach as Italians, but they're some of the most gracious gift givers. And ask nothing in return... even though I felt an obligation to buy the two Spaniards I spent some time with in Spain some wine and beers.

[maskerade]

Most of my spare money I spend on travelling - there are few things which are as rewarding as experiencing different cultures and new places. I grew up in Africa, and I had many great opportunities to travel through the world's most impoverished continent - and it not only gave me a thorough understanding of the world but also made me into a socialist.

I think a lot of people that haven't travelled extensively sometimes become very xenophobic. A friend of mine labels himself as an ethno-pluralist (a disgusting 'ideology'), but I think it is only because he hasn't seen much of the world outside of Sweden, and because of his newly acquired nationalist sentiment, I don't think he wants to.

I'm saving up money now to go to South America and Cuba, and next summer I'd like to volunteer in either Nepal or Uganda!

[ckaihatsu]

or maybe even just couch surfers




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[McCroskey]

:D Though Spaniards are crazy fun, and easy to talk to. No matter where you go, or where you're staying, the strange Spaniard beside you could always become your best friend. They're almost as uncaring at who they approach as Italians, but they're some of the most gracious gift givers. And ask nothing in return... even though I felt an obligation to buy the two Spaniards I spent some time with in Spain some wine and beers.

Yes... I am a Spaniard and, honestly, I never realised that until I moved abroad. It´s a thing you kind of give for granted when you are born and raised in Spain. Don´t idealise, though. There are nasty people, fascists, motherfuckers of all sorts just like everywhere else. But there is always the "spanish" thing. I don´t know how to describe it, it´s like a constant conscience of being in this planet for only a bunch of years, and trying to make the most of every little thing that life can offer you, like conversation with a total stranger, which is a pleasure for us.

Next time someone visits southern Spain (and if your spanish is learnt as a foreign language in school you will have a really hard time to understand andalusians) you may want to make your way to a little village in the Sevilla province, Marinaleda.

Marinaleda is a communist project in the deep andalusian countryside. They suffered hunger, very poor standards of living and exploitation by the landowners. 30 years ago, the current mayor started a campaign of land occupation and resistance (they occupied the central bank in Madrid, and even blocked the high speed train line once). Today, you can live in a modern, confortable house almost for free. There is practically free child daycare, and economy is planned so everyone works. They have an agrarian cooperative that has improved over the years. I could go on, but you really have to see it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marinaleda,_Spain

http://www.marinaleda.com/inicio.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/24/world/europe/24iht-spain.html

The wikipedia reference is in English, as well as the New York Times article. Unfortunately, the Marinaleda council website is in Spanish. There are several documentaries in Youtube, all of them in Spanish, I´m afraid. By the way, to avoid confusion, in the New Yor Times article, when they talk about Mr. Hipolito Aires, a "socialist" councillor, please note that when they say "socialist" they mean that he belongs to the PSOE, the "Spanish Socialist Workers´Party", which is everything but "socialist" and "workers´". It´s the current goverment´s party, the Spanish equivalent to New Labour.

Salud!