Disbanding the Soviets?

[LaRiposte]

I've heard anarchists and left-communists complain that Lenin 'disbanded the soviets.' I've asked some Trots and the story they gave me is that the soviets voted to disband themselves during the civil war and that most of them reformed later as war councils.

Does anyone have any sources to substantiate either claim?

[Q]

It's pretty well established that the Bolsheviks moved to dissolve the soviets that elected Mensheviks or SR's as a majority. The Bolsheviks indeed argued that this was necessary due to the civil war, but they certainly didn't vote to dissolve themselves unless you believe political games account for genuine democracy. I think dissolving the soviets was a huge error that certainly helped the counter-revolution and consolidation of the Stalinist system later on.

I'll leave the actual source finding to others though :p

[Die Neue Zeit]

For more, here's a not-too-older thread:

The Bolshevik coups d'etat of 1918? (http://www.revleft.com/vb/bolshevik-coups-detat-t134819/index.html)


I think dissolving the soviets was a huge error that certainly helped the counter-revolution and consolidation of the Stalinist system later on.

It wasn't just a "huge error"; it was a political crime against the organized working class.

[LaRiposte]

For more, here's a not-too-older thread:



It wasn't just a "huge error"; it was a political crime against the organized working class.


Okay, this is still mostly just people having a pissing match. I want facts.

[Kléber]

During the French Revolutionary Wars there were counter-revolutionary Conventions elected, such as in Lyons, and these had to be suppressed to defeat the absolutist reactionaries and monarchist invaders.

During the American Civil War there were state governments that were against the completion of the American revolution (ie, ending slavery) and these had to be suppressed to defeat the European-backed slaveowners.

During the Russian Civil War some soviets elected parties and leaders who were against the continuation of the civil war. These had to be suppressed in order to defeat the White Guards and Allied interventionists.

It wasn't a "mistake" or a "crime;" it did set a bad precedent for proletarian democracy, but the Bolsheviks didn't have much of a choice at the time. Democracy and war are simply not very compatible. When all the revolutionary activists were busy in military duties or in food requisition detachments, it was impossible to maintain the soviets as functionally democratic organizations, while defeatism and corrupt cliques sprang up behind the lines. A good recent book covering 1918 and the breakdown of soviet democracy in Petrograd, the center of the revolution is The Bolsheviks in Power: The First Year of Bolshevik Rule in Petrograd by Alexander Rabinowitch.

[LaRiposte]

During the French Revolutionary Wars there were counter-revolutionary Conventions elected, such as in Lyons, and these had to be suppressed to defeat the absolutist reactionaries and monarchist invaders.

During the American Civil War there were state governments that were against the completion of the American revolution (ie, ending slavery) and these had to be suppressed to defeat the European-backed slaveowners.

During the Russian Civil War some soviets elected parties and leaders who were against the continuation of the civil war. These had to be suppressed in order to defeat the White Guards and Allied interventionists.

It wasn't a "mistake" or a "crime;" it did set a bad precedent for proletarian democracy, but the Bolsheviks didn't have much of a choice at the time.

I want to preface this by saying I'm a staunch Trotskyist.

I understand the necessity of suppressing counter-revolutionary tendencies in the midst of a brutal civil war. I understand that and I support it.

After 1922 however, I'm not so sure that I understand the necessity of running the USSR as a one-party state. Your answer will be "but the working class was destroyed in the war and the economy was devastated." Sure, this is true. But why exclude other socialist parties, particularly the left-SRs and anarcho-syndicalists from taking part in the governmental process and the rebuilding? I seriously doubt that allowing these groups access to the soviets would have weakened the government or the revolution in the face of imperialism. By that point Germany was languishing under the Treaty of Versailles, the French and British were both in enormous debt the the United States where the prevailing political mood was isolationism, and none of the other imperialist powers really mattered (except for maybe Japan, but its not like they could do anything to the USSR). I don't see much reason for the Bolsheviks to maintain such an iron grip on politics, we should have opened things up - not to the bourgeoisie of course - but to the other socialist factions. Yes, I'm aware that the Menshiviks aided the whites in many instances, but provisions could have been made for those that didn't. What chance did the Menshiviks have after soviet power had been consolidated anyway? Its not like they could have restored the Provisional Government and rejoined the war against Germany at that point. The 'bourgeois stage' was quite obviously passed over at that point and their perspectives were rather discredited in any event. I see no harm.

Oh well, not like we can do anything about it now. I just feel like it might be time for us to quit fighting the same old polemical battles and look back to gain a realistic perspective of events, analyze our successes and failures, admit mistakes, and use this to push forward in making the final world revolution.

[Die Neue Zeit]

During the Russian Civil War some soviets elected parties and leaders who were against the continuation of the civil war. These had to be suppressed in order to defeat the White Guards and Allied interventionists.

Yes, because the Mensheviks and Socialist-Revolutionaries had absolutely no divisions between left-wing and right-wing. :rolleyes:

Workers withdrew political support, not just electoral support, from the Bolsheviks in 1918 and transferred it to the Menshevik-Internationalists and Left-SRs. I'd like to emphasize the former, since the history of the latter is more obvious.

Where, oh where, was the soviet support for the Kadets? :lol: