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M-26-7
2nd August 2010, 22:21
Good god I hate racism.


Poll: Half of Israeli high schoolers oppose equal rights for Arabs

Nearly half of Israel's high school students do not believe that Israeli-Arabs are entitled to the same rights as Jews in Israel, according to the results of a new survey released yesterday. The same poll revealed that more than half the students would deny Arabs the right to be elected to the Knesset.

The survey, which was administered to teenagers at various Israeli high schools, also found that close to half of all respondents - 48 percent - said that they would refuse orders to evacuate outposts and settlements in the Palestinian territories.
Nearly one-third - 31 percent - said they would refuse military service beyond the Green Line.

The complete results of the poll will be presented today during an academic discussion hosted jointly by Tel Aviv University's School of Education and the Citizens' Empowerment Center in Israel. The symposium will focus on various aspects of civic education in the country.

"Jewish youth have not internalized basic democratic values," said Prof. Daniel Bar-Tal, one of the conference organizers.

The poll was commissioned last month by Maagar Mochot, an Israeli research institution, under the supervision of Prof. Yitzhak Katz. It took a sampling of 536 Jewish and Arab respondents between the ages of 15-18.

The survey sought to gauge youth attitudes toward the State of Israel; their perspective on new immigrants and the state's Arab citizens; and their political stances.

The results paint a picture of youth leaning toward political philosophies that fall outside the mainstream.

In response to the question of whether Arab citizens should be granted rights equal to that of Jews, 49.5 percent answered in the negative. The issue highlighted the deep fault lines separating religious and secular youths, with 82 percent of religious students saying they opposed equal rights for Arabs while just 39 percent of secular students echoed that sentiment.

The secular-religious gap was also present when students were faced with the question of whether Arabs should be eligible to run for office in the Knesset. While 82 percent of those with religious tendencies answered in the negative, 47 percent of secular teens agreed. In total, 56 percent said Arabs should be denied this right altogether.

The survey also delved into the issue of military service and following orders that are deemed politically divisive.

While an overwhelming majority (91 percent) expressed a desire to enlist in the Israel Defense Forces, 48 percent said they would not obey an order to evacuate outposts and settlements in the West Bank.

Here, too, researchers note the religious nexus. Of those who would refuse evacuation orders, 81 percent categorize themselves as religious as opposed to 36 percent who are secular.

"This poll shows findings which place a huge warning signal in light of the strengthening trends of extremist views among the youth," said an Education Ministry official.

The survey, which also revealed that a relatively high number of youth plan on voting and that democracy is still the preferred system of government, indicates "a gap between the consensus on formal democracy and the principles of essential democracy, which forbid the denial of rights to the Arab population," the official said.

"The differences in positions between secular and religious youth, which are only growing sharper from a demographic standpoint, need to be of concern to all of us because this will be the face of the state in another 20-30 years," said Bar-Tal. "There is a combination of fundamentalism, nationalism, and racism in the worldview of religious youth."

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/poll-half-of-israeli-high-schoolers-oppose-equal-rights-for-arabs-1.264564


By the way, I got the link to this article from another article, almost equally atrocious:

The “Summer Camp Of Destruction:” Israeli High Schoolers Assist The Razing Of A Bedouin Town (http://maxblumenthal.com/2010/07/the-summer-camp-of-destruction-israeli-high-schoolers-join-in-the-destruction-of-a-bedouin-town/)

With things like this summer camp, it is little wonder that a majority of Jewish Israeli youth believe in extending the current apartheid of the occupied territories into Israel proper.

Any supposed leftist calling him or herself a "Zionist" or "pro-Zionist" needs to stop kidding him or herself. Zionism is racist to the core. Personally I think the term "anti-Zionist" is an unecessary descriptor as well, since it is redundant: it is becoming increasingly obvious to people of all political stripes that opposition to Zionism falls under the umbrella of simple anti-racism.

Who?
2nd August 2010, 22:28
I'm not surprised in the least.

Muzk
2nd August 2010, 22:50
Me neither.

gorillafuck
2nd August 2010, 23:03
I'm not surprised in the least.
I honestly am surprised, I did not think that it would be that outrageously bad among youth.

Adi Shankara
2nd August 2010, 23:09
For a state founded by the survivors of fascism, Israel is ironically the most fascist/nationalist state in existence today.

Oh how quickly the oppressed become the oppressors, eh?

DragonQuestWes
2nd August 2010, 23:31
I'm only 50% surprised.

Fuck Zionism in its fucking butthurt ass. The more I hear about what they do the more I rage.

Vladimir Innit Lenin
2nd August 2010, 23:41
That's not a particularly big sample at all.

I doubt (I hope!) it's not representative of the actual views of the entire population of that age.

The Red Next Door
2nd August 2010, 23:55
That I call Israel, Yissrael.

-Strelok
3rd August 2010, 14:09
Half of Israel are bigoted idiots

oh

Wanted Man
3rd August 2010, 14:29
This poll is just one expression of the truth behind the statement that "a nation which oppresses another nation cannot be free itself." It's not even about the poll itself, but it would not be surprising if figures like this can be found in other aspects of Israeli public opinion as well. Figures like this will continue to exist as long as Palestinians are fundamentally oppressed. Racism and nationalism will be inherent to Israel as long as it exists in its current state and as long as there is no free Palestine.

This is important to consider for those on the left who denounce all armed Palestinian liberation struggles, and who seem to think that Palestinian workers simply need to wait until Israeli workers suddenly become "ready" to accept a free Palestine. The fact is that this won't happen automatically, and that this can't somehow co-exist with a state founded in racial and national oppression. Nobody has ever fought oppression successfully by asking nicely for it to stop.

The "summer camp" article points to new instances of mobilising the youth to participate in ethnic cleansing, showing increasing radicalism in this respect.

CleverTitle
5th August 2010, 03:46
Considering the way that Israel is currently structured, I'm sort of surprised that 50% of Israeli high schoolers support equal rights for Arabs.

The idea that so many people could support something like that is disgusting, sure, but surprising? Not particularly.

jake williams
5th August 2010, 04:15
That's not a particularly big sample at all.
It sounds like the poll was carried out by professional researchers, and moreover we're talking about a small, dense country with probably only a few hundred thousand high school age students. I think we can reasonably trust the results - Israel really is an unusually extremely racist society, in a pretty racist world, but that much is unsurprising in a settler colonial state. We see exactly the same unspeakable racism (still) among white South Africans, and if we're honest at all we see similar and analogous racism in Canada, Australia and the United States.

What I think is really interesting is that these views aren't coming from nowhere. They're being, I'm sure, explicitly engendered by the state education system. For liberal elements of the state or the national bourgeoisie to then turn around and get all uncomfortable about it is a bit rich to say the least.

Ele'ill
5th August 2010, 04:39
I'm surprised only because I had previously read that a large portion of the Israeli population was against various aspects of Palestinian oppression.

The Fighting_Crusnik
5th August 2010, 04:48
ugh... I'm not surprised and this isn't going to change in the near future... I hate it how we humans are able to go through hell because of rhetoric and intolerance and then in turn create that hell for others we don't like in just 20 short years....

jake williams
5th August 2010, 04:51
I'm surprised only because I had previously read that a large portion of the Israeli population was against various aspects of Palestinian oppression.
There is division in the society. As the poll said, 30 percent of students surveyed wouldn't deploy past the green line. Now, I don't know how many of them actually would, but that's still saying something, especially given what Israeli youth are up against in terms of state propaganda. There is an extremely small radical left, but there is a pretty large liberal left - represented by Ha'aretz in a lot of ways, and from the looks of it, by the folks who did this survey.

NGNM85
5th August 2010, 06:15
Sad,....but predictable.

FreeFocus
5th August 2010, 06:57
There is division in the society. As the poll said, 30 percent of students surveyed wouldn't deploy past the green line. Now, I don't know how many of them actually would, but that's still saying something, especially given what Israeli youth are up against in terms of state propaganda. There is an extremely small radical left, but there is a pretty large liberal left - represented by Ha'aretz in a lot of ways, and from the looks of it, by the folks who did this survey.

I wouldn't take that as division, just 30% of students being afraid of (possibly) getting fucked up. It would be interesting to see what percentage of that 30% opposes equal rights for Arabs, much less Arab independence.

jake williams
5th August 2010, 14:58
I wouldn't take that as division, just 30% of students being afraid of (possibly) getting fucked up. It would be interesting to see what percentage of that 30% opposes equal rights for Arabs, much less Arab independence.
I sympathize with your dismissiveness, really, but I think even Israeli teenagers understand that there's a massive disparity in firepower and that even were they to walk the streets of Gaza, Israeli soldiers aren't really at much risk.

While there's a lot dysfunctional and horrifying about Israeli society, the movement resisting military service, in various forms and to various extents, is a pretty big deal. I know a couple who participated in it when they were younger, and they're much more cynical about the Israeli left than I am. But these youth really are brave - you're probably in a lot more danger just doing your year (or whatever it is) than resisting service, and that's ignoring the fact that most of the society still hates you for it. But it really is bringing in an increasing number of youth, and while it's not enough and it's imperfect, it's important.

Dr Mindbender
5th August 2010, 15:30
I think there are parallels with Northern Ireland. I wouldnt be at all surprised if 50% or more of unionist youth in the six counties still oppose equality for nationalists.

FreeFocus
5th August 2010, 15:50
I sympathize with your dismissiveness, really, but I think even Israeli teenagers understand that there's a massive disparity in firepower and that even were they to walk the streets of Gaza, Israeli soldiers aren't really at much risk.

While there's a lot dysfunctional and horrifying about Israeli society, the movement resisting military service, in various forms and to various extents, is a pretty big deal. I know a couple who participated in it when they were younger, and they're much more cynical about the Israeli left than I am. But these youth really are brave - you're probably in a lot more danger just doing your year (or whatever it is) than resisting service, and that's ignoring the fact that most of the society still hates you for it. But it really is bringing in an increasing number of youth, and while it's not enough and it's imperfect, it's important.

91% of students polled expressed a desire to enlist in the IDF, though. From this poll, I don't see where you're getting evidence for your argument. While the small minority of those resisting service in the occupation should be commended (if they're doing it for the right reasons), the number of people raring to go is much greater.

Really, it's just like students here. Most will clap for pigs fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, and then note that they respect them so much because they wouldn't be able do it themselves. Few people actually want to be deployed into a warzone, or any place where there's a decent chance they might be killed or put in harm's way. I think this explains the 30% figure better than any humanitarian concern the Israeli students polled can.

jake williams
6th August 2010, 06:50
91% of students polled expressed a desire to enlist in the IDF, though. From this poll, I don't see where you're getting evidence for your argument. While the small minority of those resisting service in the occupation should be commended (if they're doing it for the right reasons), the number of people raring to go is much greater.

Really, it's just like students here. Most will clap for pigs fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, and then note that they respect them so much because they wouldn't be able do it themselves. Few people actually want to be deployed into a warzone, or any place where there's a decent chance they might be killed or put in harm's way. I think this explains the 30% figure better than any humanitarian concern the Israeli students polled can.
I think what it comes down to in Tel Aviv and in Toronto is that people generally support their country's military, but on the basis that they believe it is doing things which it in fact does not. For example, I assume most Israeli youth believe that the IDF is engaged in the defence of their friends and families, of their cousin in Sderot, etc. I think a lot of them believe that if the IDF were to "transition" to a colonial occupying force, they would oppose it. It's easy for you or me to say that their beliefs thus are idiotic, but it's frankly not easy to be an Israeli teenager and also be an anti-racist. It's a very small, very compact country supersaturated with fanatically racist propaganda and Israeli youth aren't given a lot of options, certainly not obvious ones. Obviously that doesn't "justify" things in some abstract moralistic sense, but if we want to fight it, I think it is worth trying to understand that and trying to support the tendencies which oppose it, however imperfect or slight.

Obviously that isn't coming from the poll, that's coming from my (albeit limited) prior understanding of Israeli society, on really a pretty tight analogy with, say, Canada.

t.shonku
6th August 2010, 08:08
I am not surprised.What else can we expect from those Zaonist?

freepalestine
7th August 2010, 21:05
isreal is facsist .wake the fuck up.

Palestine
7th August 2010, 22:41
Ok I must say that Max Blumenthal guy is amazing, I met him Friday in the Sheikh Jarrah neighborhood protest, he is a truly amazing person, he wanted to defy the soldiers just to make them angry :D

Reznov
9th August 2010, 22:27
For a state founded by the survivors of fascism, Israel is ironically the most fascist/nationalist state in existence today.

Oh how quickly the oppressed become the oppressors, eh?

This is so true, Sankara.

People on this forum always accuse Whites in America opressing minority groups in America and saying that its a intregal part of Capitalism and Imperalism. But yet when it comes to Israel, no one ever seems to really mention it.

Barry Lyndon
12th August 2010, 14:21
This is so true, Sankara.

People on this forum always accuse Whites in America opressing minority groups in America and saying that its a intregal part of Capitalism and Imperalism. But yet when it comes to Israel, no one ever seems to really mention it.

Plenty of people 'on this forum' have described Israel as a racist state and one founded on ethnic cleansing and colonialism, as I do. I don't know where your pulling that assertion from.