Shining Path info

[TwoSevensClash]

Does anyone know of any good books or articles about the Shining Path? Any info on Abimael Guzman would be good too. Thanks!

[The Vegan Marxist]

Comrade, I'd love to help you in anyway. In fact, I'm doing an article on them right now & try & debunk the lies of them & to point out certain key facts needing to be know on the situation at hand today. Though, I'd like for you to go back to the thread provided by link below, in which I clarify on what exactly is going on right now about the Shining Path:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/al-jazeera-video-t139447/index.html

Also, if you can read peruvian, or at least got a good translator program, you can check out the book written by former leader of the Shining Path, Abimael Guzman, which is called "De puño y letra":

http://www.eldiariointernacional.com/spip.php?article2605

[Nachie]

Also, if you can read peruvian,

This why it is impossible for me to take you seriously.

Ever.

[The Vegan Marxist]

This why it is impossible for me to take you seriously.

Ever.

Because I can help translate peruvian texts? Or because I didn't translate it for him? In fact, just STFU Nachie, you're seriously irritating & your anarcho-bullshit is getting on my nerves. Fuck off, please.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Here, this'll help if you can't read the link provided, since Nachie has a problem that he seems to constantly pull out of his ass whenever possible:


Abimael Guzman, the former head of Sendero Luminoso (74 years), has just published his personal memoirs. Publication of this book is the seventeenth anniversary of his capture (12 September 1992). This edition of 1,000 copies, and is far from the 300 thousand copies of the interview to make him the Journal in 1988, when Guzman was still revolutionary.

DE "handwriting" is the unoriginal title of the autobiographical book of Guzman. This book contains 408 pages of documents, part of his autobiography and his legal defense, his lawyer, Alfredo Crespo. The compilation of the book ran on account of Elena Iparraguirre, Guzman partner and number two in the Shining Path of capitulation. "There are manuscripts of Dr. Guzman content relating to your legal defense strategy, a defense politically conceived," said Crespo. He said Guzman, 75, outlined his views on the development of civil procedure which sentenced him to life imprisonment in 2006, with his top lieutenants, including Iparraguirre.

As says the news agency EFE, the book also brings together "part of his autobiography until it reaches Ayacucho", before the start of the Shining Path's armed struggle, and personal letters addressed to him Iparraguirre.

In addition, there are testimonies of people "who have known or have spoken" with Guzman and a summary of the views of the press after his capture in 1992, and the statement he gave at the prison at the Callao Naval Base and an appendix photo.

"Ms. Elena Iparraguirre believes that (the book) is of historic importance because for the first time applied a legal defense policy, there's the historical significance make known something about the thought of Dr. Guzman," said Crespo.

The letter of invitation to the presentation of the book, signed by Iparraguirre, Shining Path leader partner reaffirms that produced this compilation considered "historically significant." Crespo also noted that the publication is "a reaffirmation" of a proposed peace accord that Guzman made Peruvian Executive in 1993.

For this reason, we have included the letters he sent to former President Alberto Fujimori (1990-2000) requesting the start of "peace talks" and another referred to it by the president of the Transitional Government, Valentín Paniagua (2000-2001) .

Guzman and Iparraguirre were arrested near the dome of the Shining Path September 12, 1992, in a house in the Lima district of Surco, by agents of the Special Intelligence Group (GEIN) of the Peruvian police.

EFE

For Paola Ugaz (Terra Magazine), the autobiographical book entitled 'own handwriting' written in prison by the head of Shining Path, Abimael Guzman, broke a silence of 17 years the head of the internal war in Peru.

The founder and top leader of the terrorist group Sendero Luminoso (SL), Abimael Guzman, said his role in the war that struck Peru in 1980-2000, "came to an end," according to Terra Magazine, his girlfriend and SL number two, Elena Iparraguirre.

With the explosion of the electoral records on the high Andean town of Ayacucho Chuschi, on May 17, 1980, Sendero Luminoso declared war against the Peruvian State that caused, according to the Final Report of the Commission of Truth and Reconciliation-close 70 000 dead.

Iparraguirre, 62, and a life sentence said that "war behind us" and next to Guzman now seek "a political solution to the problems of people's war, the general amnesty and national reconciliation."

After the capture of Abimael Guzman and his leadership, today September 12, 1992, then the right hand of President Alberto Fujimori (1990-2000), Vladimiro Montesinos Guzman was an act of peace signed in 1993, in exchange for favors prison and to be locked in the same prison with Iparraguirre.

The capture of Guzman and the signature of the peace caused Sendero Luminoso was divided into three groups: prisoners who followed Guzman and see the war as a glorious but finished, labeled as the agreements, the walkers are in the Jungle Huallaga and are led by Artemio and walkers that are located in the Apurimac Ene River Valley (VRAE) and are led by "Joseph", Víctor Quispe Palomino.

Of the features of the walkers in freedom, led by Artemio on the Huallaga are recognizing as its leader Abimael Guzman, but continue to wreak havoc among the population, because of its alliance with drug traffickers, while those headed by Joseph in the VRAE, not recognize the authority of Guzman and have become a group with sophisticated weapons of long and short range, which in the past year have killed 52 people, including soldiers and civilians.

On the Shining Path faction VRAE; Iparraguirre indicating "hired mercenaries to the highest bidder" and that "Joseph was never a walker relevant."

Abimael's girlfriend said, "Joseph tried unsuccessfully to enter the Shining Path's Central Committee but their limited knowledge of the Maoist doctrine prevented it," while adding that "the mid-eighties abandoned its obligations to the party and VRAE went to his family and then return before 1990. "

Last May, the Maoist leader also told police went to interview him in his prison of the Callao Naval Base, that the faction of Joseph in the VRAE "are mercenaries and they have no relation to the dome Sendero Luminoso in prison.

These statements of Abimael Guzman and Elena Iparraguirre coincide with the order to the judicial authorities of having "family meetings" and they are allowed to marry so they can see four times a year.

Guzman, who turns 75 years next December 3, also is concerned about the fate of his body, after death, because so far none of the Peruvian State where he thought buried and where he can visit his followers.

A handwriting

Maoist leader also worried about his written legacy, which is why his girlfriend Elena Iparraguirre compiled from his cell in the women's prison in Santa Monica, all written by hand on megajuicio Abimael that followed in 2006, and love letters and a manuscript about his childhood and adulthood in the book "handwriting" presented on Friday at a hotel in downtown Lima.

More than 400 people attended the book launch of Abimael Guzman in which his lawyers Alfredo Crespo and Manuel Fajardo, the improvements claimed by your sponsored prison, sentenced to life imprisonment.

"This act is a victory for Dr. Abimael Guzman, who is being held in isolation and the only way you can review the decision in 2037, where it has 103 years," said attorney Alfredo Crespo.

"Our country should not remain divided" Abimael assumed its responsibility for the war and noted that had excesses, raised to self-criticism but he can not implement the forgiveness or repentance because they are religious concepts, so far, I asked, the State armed forces have assumed "responsibility?" he said.

The book presented with long applause from the attendees to the hotel in downtown Lima, silence marks the end of seventeen years of Abimael Guzman, who has wanted to be a soldier, who in his teens was apprenticed to a watchmaker and followed incidents World War II through the radio.

Among the attendees, said the mother of Elena Iparraguirre, White Revoredo 94, his sister Amelia, as well as students and professionals of all ages, families, local and foreign press and members of police intelligence and security state.

"A handwriting," which was printed in the editorial "A show of hands" with an initial print run of 1,000 copies, "he concludes with a statement by Abimael:" The rest of my life I dedicate to fight for the freedom of all those Same with me. "

Criticism VRAE

Meanwhile, unknown to the faction of Shining Path's remnants VRAE led by José no walkers constrains leaders but also to Central Committee members: Laura Eugenia Zambrano, Margot Liendo and Victoria Trujillo, who were interviewed by Terra Magazine Women in the Penal Santa Monica.

Laura Eugenia Zambrano, 59, with a life sentence to Terra Magazine, said that "flatly rejected this armed group and military, are not part of the Sendero Luminoso Communist Party, Marxism and traffickers are antipensamiento Gonzalo", while who said Artemio (SL leader in the Huallaga) "from what I read in the media itself is part of Path because it seeks a political solution and if military action is done defensively." For its part, Margot Liendo, 60 and 21 years in prison, told Terra Magazine that remaining in the VRAE "are an armed group that has abandoned ideology, are anti-Maoist, antipueblo are mercenaries. They work behind the people and against people by personal desires. " "Artemio in the Huallaga valley is about a political solution and perform defensive actions," he added.

Victoria Trujillo-49, with a sentence of 25 years, "said Terra magazine that" war is no longer popular, support for Abimael, and Elena and I believe that remnants of VRAE "have nothing to do with the party, we've never known and are mercenaries against the people. "

Liendo Trujillo with survivors of a massacre carried out by intelligence services in 1991, the Fujimori government, which killed 42 members of the terrorist group Sendero Luminoso.

"I wonder and I have saved a bullet in his left leg that causes me discomfort in cold weather," says Trujillo.

Laura Eugenia Zambrano, Margot Liendo and Victoria Trujillo, women and members of the Shining Path were convicted along with Shining Path leader, Abimael Guzman and Elena Iparraguirre. Among all have to pay civil damages amounting to 3,700 million soles.

About VRAE remnants that have become the biggest problem the government of Alan Garcia, Hugo Cabieses sociologist noted that "the central problem is not Sendero Luminoso VRAE but is drug trafficking, the walkers are the caretakers of the drug, the second problem is poverty and lack of state presence, therefore, any strategy must have a police intelligence operations perform impeccable along with a plan for sustainable development in the valley where nearly 150 000 people. "

"Path of VRAE not an ideological proposal because it has the capacity to do, but if you are looking to take power in the area, earning the mayor and win people over," he concluded.

[Obs]

Because I can help translate peruvian texts? Or because I didn't translate it for him? In fact, just STFU Nachie, you're seriously irritating & your anarcho-bullshit is getting on my nerves. Fuck off, please.
I think his point was that Peruvian isn't a language...

[Tifosi]

Because I can help translate peruvian texts? Or because I didn't translate it for him? In fact, just STFU Nachie, you're seriously irritating & your anarcho-bullshit is getting on my nerves. Fuck off, please.

There is no language called Peruvian, in Peru most people speak Spainish.

[Dimentio]

Wasn't it the Shining Path who openly admitted that they were attacking peasants in order to show that they were more cruel than the Peruvian government? Disturbed leaders...

[The Vegan Marxist]

My mistake. I know they speak spanish, I just merely call it Peruvian to help point out the certain region in which it's coming from. And to Dimentio, this was only proclaimed by the Peruvian military due to the Sendero's counter-attacks against the military trained "Rondas" who were a counterrevolutionary peasant army. Whenever the Sendero's attacked them & the villages they occupied, the Peruvian military would use this as a way of blaming the Sendero Luminoso as those who kill "innocent villagers & peasants".

[bricolage]

Except they did kill 'innocent villagers & peasants'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucanamarca_massacre

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Shining Path=terrorist group.When they lose the support of the peasants and common working man that's a bad sign....especcially since they're a communist group.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Sendero Luminoso: Because sometimes pretentious college student radicals CAN be dangerous!

Despite what TVM may or may not think, I think that it's entirely possible that villagers and peasants in Peru may have been pissed off at SL for reasons entirely unrelated to counterrevolutionary ambitions. SL was famous for disrespecting cultural traditions, as well as enforcing their own brand of "puritanism" in the areas they controlled. If some thug followers of a philosophy professor marched into my town and started telling me how to conduct my affairs, I might get a little irritated too.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Except they did kill 'innocent villagers & peasants'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucanamarca_massacre

That was an attack against the Ronda's. These weren't "innocent villagers", & nice citing wikipedia as your source of information. :thumbup1:

[Jolly Red Giant]

Wasn't it the Shining Path who openly admitted that they were attacking peasants in order to show that they were more cruel than the Peruvian government? Disturbed leaders...
Yes - complete nutjobs

[The Vegan Marxist]

Shining Path=terrorist group.When they lose the support of the peasants and common working man that's a bad sign....especcially since they're a communist group.

You apparently have no clue about anything of the Sendero Luminoso & where they stand today. Don't worry, I'm soon about to fix that. Stay patient.

[thälmann]

side of the party: http://www.redsun.org/

[Nachie]

WE SALUTE THE BRILLIANT SUCCESS OF THE INITIATION AND DEVELOPMENT OF THE INTERNATIONAL CAMPAIGN OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY OF PERU: APPLY MAOISM AND CRUSH REVISIONISM! COMBAT PARLIAMENTARY CRETINISM!

When are Maoists going to learn that shit like this is just way too long to be the title of an article?

[black magick hustla]

My mistake. I know they speak spanish, I just merely call it Peruvian to help point out the certain region in which it's coming from..

you are full of shit

[The Vegan Marxist]

you are full of shit

Of course you think that. Any person you have any oppositional stance towards, you'll find whatever means it takes to throw dirt on. Please don't waste my time & don't waste the OP's time either with irrelevant backlash.

[Pavlov's House Party]

You apparently have no clue about anything of the Sendero Luminoso & where they stand today. Don't worry, I'm soon about to fix that. Stay patient.

Apparently neither do you. I lived in Peru on peasant farms for awhile and most peasants see them as outsiders no better than the government, a drug cartel or just thugs, depending on the region you're in. I never heard a Peruvian have anything positive to say about the SL my entire stay there, in the countryside or in the cities. I'm not sure where this myth (that seems to be perpetuated by Western leftists, mind you) that the SL is some kind of revolutionary party with mass support, because it certainly does not have any in Peru.

EDIT: lulzy negrep from GracchusBabeuf : "shove your fascist anecdotes up your ass." yes, I suppose the people of Peru are all fascists because they don't like being bullied by men with guns, irregardless of what ideology they claim to uphold.

[The Red Next Door]

Because I can help translate peruvian texts? Or because I didn't translate it for him? In fact, just STFU Nachie, you're seriously irritating & your anarcho-bullshit is getting on my nerves. Fuck off, please.

Umm.. you mean spanish. comrade.

[The Red Next Door]

This why it is impossible for me to take you seriously.

Ever.


Stop being an fuckwad jerk.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Apparently neither do you. I lived in Peru on peasant farms for awhile and most peasants see them as outsiders no better than the government, a drug cartel or just thugs, depending on the region you're in. I never heard a Peruvian have anything positive to say about the SL my entire stay there, in the countryside or in the cities. I'm not sure where this myth (that seems to be perpetuated by Western leftists, mind you) that the SL is some kind of revolutionary party with mass support, because it certainly does not have any in Peru.

No longer they don't, for they've gone into factions since the capturing of Abimael Guzman. And the one that remains waging violence against the Peruvian state is working as mercenaries for the drug cartels.

[black magick hustla]

Of course you think that. Any person you have any oppositional stance towards, you'll find whatever means it takes to throw dirt on. Please don't waste my time & don't waste the OP's time either with irrelevant backlash.

not really. i just find it infuriating when western jerkoffs have a fetish of brown people with guns without having even the remote idea except that they have red flags

[bricolage]

That was an attack against the Ronda's. These weren't "innocent villagers", & nice citing wikipedia as your source of information. :thumbup1:
No. They were innocent villagers. Even shining path admitted this.
You are a disgrace.

[The Vegan Marxist]

No. They were innocent villagers. Even shining path admitted this.
You are a disgrace.

They didn't admit they were innocent villagers. They stated that they were responsible to the Lucanamarca Massacre, in which has been deemed as an attack against "innocent villagers" by the media. Point out to me where they killed children & villagers that weren't Ronda's. From their admittance, as far as they went, they merely claimed it got a bit out of hand. Where that stands is unclear, but never did they state that they killed innocent women or children, & fact of the matter is that the villages that were attacked was in Ronda territory.

Besides, there's been far worse massacre's by the ruling class of Peru. Looking at the attacks on Lucanamarca, I see nothing but the necessity of fighting against counterrevolutionary elements.

[Os Cangaceiros]

From their admittance, as far as they went, they merely claimed it got a bit out of hand.

LOL


Besides, there's been far worse massacre's by the ruling class of Peru.

And they should be rightly derided as the work of scum...just like the disgusting SL actions.


Looking at the attacks on Lucanamarca, I see nothing but the necessity of fighting against counterrevolutionary elements.

Sure ya do.

[Nachie]

From their admittance, as far as they went, they merely claimed it got a bit out of hand.

Double LOL.

"Oops, sorry guys!" :rolleyes:

[The Vegan Marxist]

Double LOL.

"Oops, sorry guys!" :rolleyes:

And of course, the anarcho-kiddies continue senseless attacks, & YET still provides nothing towards their opposing views. Again, Nachie, fuck off, & take your anarcho-*****, invasion, with you. You're getting as irritating as Atlee is.

[this is an invasion]

Them's fightin' words, boy!

[thälmann]

whatever somebody think about the sl, to say they didnt have mass support, is simply wrong. it was a strong mass movement in the 80s and early 90s, in the countryside and in the big citys too.

to the comrade who lived in peru: it is strange that you didnt find people talking good about the sl, i met a lot of peruvians here in europe who think positive about the sl...

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

Point out to me where they killed children & villagers that weren't Ronda's.

How the fuck can children, one of whom was only 6 months old, be part of a right wing militia?

[Tifosi]

whatever somebody think about the sl, to say they didnt have mass support, is simply wrong. it was a strong mass movement in the 80s and early 90s, in the countryside and in the big citys too.

to the comrade who lived in peru: it is strange that you didnt find people talking good about the sl, i met a lot of peruvians here in europe who think positive about the sl...

Pervian's in Europe, in Europe you say. The Pervian's in Europe don't have to put up with day to day life with the Shinning Path about. Same for TVM, it's very nice looking in at all this 'revolution' but in reality it's a crap life to have because both sides are as bad as each other and your stuck in the middle.

[bricolage]

Point out to me where they killed children & villagers that weren't Ronda's.

How the fuck can children, one of whom was only 6 months old, be part of a right wing militia?


From their admittance, as far as they went, they merely claimed it got a bit out of hand.
What a sterling line of defence.


Where that stands is unclear, but never did they state that they killed innocent women or children,
To be honest I don't really care what they state, I think it's quite obvious what they did.


& fact of the matter is that the villages that were attacked was in Ronda territory.
Dresden was in Nazi territory.


Besides, there's been far worse massacre's by the ruling class of Peru.
So? This is irrelevant.


Looking at the attacks on Lucanamarca, I see nothing but the necessity of fighting against counterrevolutionary elements.
Counterrevolutionary children.

[Obs]

"Aw, shit, guys? That right-wing militiaman I just shot? Yeah, turns out that was an infant. D'oh!"

[Kassad]

I'm really getting pretty tired of handing out blanket verbal warnings because there's so many dumbshits crammed into one thread at a time. If you can't post anything besides insults, rude bullshit or snide comments, stop posting altogether. Is it remotely possible that... you know, a leftist forum could be used for constructive discussion? I know that sounds outlandish, but to top off the cake, I'm handing out infractions if people can't stay civil and on topic.

[Os Cangaceiros]

whatever somebody think about the sl, to say they didnt have mass support, is simply wrong. it was a strong mass movement in the 80s and early 90s, in the countryside and in the big citys too.

I would really like to see some sources for this. I think that you're playing fast and loose with the phrase "mass movement"...most of what I've read about SL suggests that their level of support was marginal, and in the cities (which their doctrinaire quasi-cult Maoism told them to oppose) close to non-existent.

[Dimentio]

Would have been fascinating in some eerie way if they somehow had managed to win power in Peru. By their conduct against villagers, I would guess they would have made Democratic Kampuchea look like an amusement park.

[RATM-Eubie]

The Shining Path does not believe in human rights.... There are such things as human rights. I dont support terrorism so i do not support the Shining Path. Just because they are poor peasants, waving red flags, i will not instantly support them. There actions speak for themselves.

[The Vegan Marxist]

The Shining Path does not believe in human rights.... There are such things as human rights. I dont support terrorism so i do not support the Shining Path. Just because they are poor peasants, waving red flags, i will not instantly support them. There actions speak for themselves.

"Human Rights" have been used by the bourgeois & imperialists as an act against people's rights during revolutionary warfare. Whenever a capitalist is caught committing a crime, & they're charged through a people's court, & then prosecuted, which would then mean death (depending on the crime committed), organizations such as "Human Rights Watch" or Amnesty International come forth to blame such rebels groups for "human rights" violation. It's bullshit & goes against "People's Rights" during the conditions that we're in, or those that are fighting today.

[Qayin]

"Human Rights" have been used by the bourgeois & imperialists as an act against people's rights during revolutionary warfare. Whenever a capitalist is caught committing a crime, & they're charged through a people's court, & then prosecuted, which would then mean death (depending on the crime committed), organizations such as "Human Rights Watch" or Amnesty International come forth to blame such rebels groups for "human rights" violation. It's bullshit & goes against "People's Rights" during the conditions that we're in, or those that are fighting today. So two wrongs make a right?
So if the state murders peasants its bad, but if the Shining Path does it its good because human rights are bourgeois? You crack me up.

[The Vegan Marxist]

So two wrongs make a right?
So if the state murders peasants its bad, but if the Shining Path does it its good because human rights are bourgeois? You crack me up.

You're a fucking moron if you can't understand the difference between those two. Let's look at both situations:


The bourgeois kills peasants because they're, 1) in support of a rebel army, 2) will not get off their land, 3) shows opposition to the bourgeois.

The peasants kill the bourgeois because, 1) they're being killed themselves, 2) they committed a crime against the people, such as raping or killing someone.

Yet, when "human rights" are put into the mix, they take it like you do & see them both as violations of "human rights" instead of looking at it on the stance of people's rights. If you can't determine the difference between the two then you'll never last through a revolution.

[The Red Next Door]

why these claims are coming from Anarchists?

[CHAIRMAN GONZALO]

The Peruvian Communist Party better known as the PCP is currently has entered a phase of ideological struggle. The conditions are not adequate to proceed with the the armed struggle, therefore the party has decided to continue the people's war but in an ideological manner.

And to those who claim that the peruvian peasantry does not support the party, hate to break it to you, but the party has 90% support in the whole nation. Please don't talk if you don't know. Or as Mao would say "no investigation, no right to speak". He was totally right when he said that. Those who are just spitting lies about the party, please don't post to spread BOURGEOIS lies. Thank you and Viva el PCP! Viva la jefatura del Presidente Gonzalo!

[Victory]

I do not believe there’s any excuse for killing children.

With that said, I do not think from that wiki article is a credible source. I do not believe the leadership ordered the guerrillas to massacre children just for the sake of putting fear into the lives of the people. - It's not rational, and for an organisation such as the Shining Path, which was very influencial in the 80s, I do not think the leadership would order to execution of 6 month old babies.

It's clear that the Shining Path have made mistakes, but it's also clear that every revolutionary war waged against a government has made mistakes, and always will do.
Under the leadership of Che Guevara, a group of guerrillas fled, raped 2 women and burnt a peasants house down to the ground. Does this mean because some murderers joined the 26 July Movement we should condemn the 26th July Movement all together and refrain support? No, there is always the potential to recruit people who are not genuinely guided by love for the people.

There is a big difference between systematic human rights abuses and individual human rights abuses. As I said, I do not believe 6 month old babies were systermaticly ordered to be executed by the leadership. - It's a very easy mistake to make, thinking that because some guerrillas killed an innocent person, that it's a strategy put forward by the leadership.

It's also important to remember that it is obviously very difficult to find a credible source written about a Communist Guerrilla Organisation from almost 30 years ago. The ruling class lie and have lied and labelled communist organisations terrorists every single time they were close to overthrowing the state.

[The Vegan Marxist]

The Peruvian Communist Party better known as the PCP is currently has entered a phase of ideological struggle. The conditions are not adequate to proceed with the the armed struggle, therefore the party has decided to continue the people's war but in an ideological manner.

And to those who claim that the peruvian peasantry does not support the party, hate to break it to you, but the party has 90% support in the whole nation. Please don't talk if you don't know. Or as Mao would say "no investigation, no right to speak". He was totally right when he said that. Those who are just spitting lies about the party, please don't post to spread BOURGEOIS lies. Thank you and Viva el PCP! Viva la jefatura del Presidente Gonzalo!

As much as I want to thank you for your support, but can I ask where exactly you got that 90% support them. I've never seen this exact statistic. Thanks.

[Kassad]

"Human Rights" have been used by the bourgeois & imperialists as an act against people's rights during revolutionary warfare. Whenever a capitalist is caught committing a crime, & they're charged through a people's court, & then prosecuted, which would then mean death (depending on the crime committed), organizations such as "Human Rights Watch" or Amnesty International come forth to blame such rebels groups for "human rights" violation. It's bullshit & goes against "People's Rights" during the conditions that we're in, or those that are fighting today.

Just because the ruling class uses massive exaggerations of human rights violations to further their own agenda, doesn't mean that human rights violations do not exist to some extent.

Though the Communist Party of Peru (I don't know why you like calling them Shining Path so much. That's a term the media came up with to describe the party and it is used in a derrogatory manner) should not be demonized in the manner that the imperialist media portrays it, it is far from the revolutionary organization that we should be attempting to build. Instilling fear into the countrysides to further the agenda of revolution is a ruthless tactic that is bound to fail. Though Abimael Guzman should be freed, he is not a revolutionary leader that I, personally, revere.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Just because the ruling class uses massive exaggerations of human rights violations to further their own agenda, doesn't mean that human rights violations do not exist to some extent.

Though the Communist Party of Peru (I don't know why you like calling them Shining Path so much. That's a term the media came up with to describe the party and it is used in a derrogatory manner) should not be demonized in the manner that the imperialist media portrays it, it is far from the revolutionary organization that we should be attempting to build. Instilling fear into the countrysides to further the agenda of revolution is a ruthless tactic that is bound to fail. Though Abimael Guzman should be freed, he is not a revolutionary leader that I, personally, revere.

No, "human rights" violations do take place, but I was merely pointing out how it's used by the bourgeois to try & discredit the Sendero Luminoso. And I hope you weren't talking to me about saying "Shining Path", I usually never refer to them as that, 'cuz of how it was created by the mainstream media as an attack against them.

[Obs]

I do not believe there’s any excuse for killing children.

With that said, I do not think from that wiki article is a credible source. I do not believe the leadership ordered the guerrillas to massacre children just for the sake of putting fear into the lives of the people. - It's not rational, and for an organisation such as the Shining Path, which was very influencial in the 80s, I do not think the leadership would order to execution of 6 month old babies.

It's clear that the Shining Path have made mistakes, but it's also clear that every revolutionary war waged against a government has made mistakes, and always will do.
Under the leadership of Che Guevara, a group of guerrillas fled, raped 2 women and burnt a peasants house down to the ground. Does this mean because some murderers joined the 26 July Movement we should condemn the 26th July Movement all together and refrain support? No, there is always the potential to recruit people who are not genuinely guided by love for the people.
That's actually a fair point. That said, does anyone know if any disciplinary action was taken after the massacre? One that could clearly demonstrate that, you know, the SL leadership weren't okay with this happening?

[Qayin]

You're a fucking moronSorry I can't speak Peruvian :laugh:


Yet, when "human rights" are put into the mix, they take it like you do & see them both as violations of "human rights" instead of looking at it on the stance of people's rights. If you can't determine the difference between the two then you'll never last through a revolution. Your dumb as a brick, you missed the point a revolutionary force shouldn't be shooting innocents. When your leading the peoples war in America wake me up.

[black magick hustla]

but the party has 90% support in the whole nation. o!

estas pero bien pendejo

[Barry Lyndon]

That's actually a fair point. That said, does anyone know if any disciplinary action was taken after the massacre? One that could clearly demonstrate that, you know, the SL leadership weren't okay with this happening?

That is a good point. Someone pointed out that the guerrillas under Che and Fidel also committed atrocities. True, but Che Guevara made a point of executing men under his command who he found were raping, stealing from, and killing civilians. It is not just morally abhorrent to do such things, it is detrimental to the revolutionary movement as a whole and deprives it of the base of civilian support it needs to survive and eventually win.
It doesn't matter that 'the other side does worse'. That is not an excuse, and really, is that the yardstick that revolutionaries want to measure their conduct by?
The Sendero Luminoso were too brutal against too many innocent people(even other leftists like the Tupac Amaru organization), and in large part because of that went from an organization that controlled 10-15% of Peru's territory and posed a serious threat to the central government to a small group of isolated bands that are nothing more then a nuiscance.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Sorry I can't speak Peruvian :laugh:

Your dumb as a brick, you missed the point a revolutionary force shouldn't be shooting innocents. When your leading the peoples war in America wake me up.

Ahh, of course. Irrelevancy is a great weapon of choice by the anarchist crowd isn't it!?

And apparently, you're the one who missed the point. They didn't kill innocent people, at least not deliberately. This is where they stated their stance against "human rights" where they're used against them when they kill those who have directly opposed them violently or have harmed the people violently.

[Kassad]

Your dumb as a brick, you missed the point a revolutionary force shouldn't be shooting innocents. When your leading the peoples war in America wake me up.

Since you took the time in your post to point out his intellectual error, I'm going to point out that you're a fucking moron for saying "your" when you meant to say "you're." Necessary, right? Look how much my witty comments contribute to the thread about an actual, important struggle in Peru!

[Dimentio]

The Shining Path does not believe in human rights.... There are such things as human rights. I dont support terrorism so i do not support the Shining Path. Just because they are poor peasants, waving red flags, i will not instantly support them. There actions speak for themselves.

I don't think that many of them were peasants. They seem more to have been consisting of university students and people from small towns.

[Proletarian Ultra]

I don't want to get into the whole 'terrorists vs. genuine true communists' debate.

The main thing is they fucking failed and that pulled Peruvian politics far to the right ever since and for the foreseeable future.

So fuck the Shining Path.

http://www.tribunalatina.com/es/img2/Keiko90789.jpg
"Super gracias, companero Abimael!"

[Andropov]

Human Rights is essentially bourgeois.
It demands that all people, irregaurdless of class or context are gauranteed a certain level of rights.
Now place this in a context where The Bourgeois holds all capital, holds all power and will refuse to grant any of the wealth the working class produce to them and any attempt by the working class to seize said wealth will be treated with state repression.
Human Rights organisations will then castigate said government and say they breach human rights but when a reaction from the working class does occur and strikes back against the state and bourgeois then they will also be tarred with the same human rights abuser brush.
Human Rights organisations do have noble aspirations and I would say have their heart in the right place but due to their lack of class politics will ineviteably be critical of working class mobilisations due to the context the working class finds itself in today.

[The Red Next Door]

estas pero bien pendejo

I know what that means, no cursing:laugh: