Florida church plans “Burn a Quran Day�

[The Vegan Marxist]

Florida church plans “Burn a Quran Day”
Sat, 31 Jul 2010

A Florida church is promoting Islamophobia and has plans to publically burn the Holy Quran on the ninth anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks.

The Dove World Outreach Center has called for the “International Burn a Quran Day” and asked other religious groups to join in the event, The Huffington Post reported on Friday.

Pastor Terry Jones called Islam an evil religion and said all Christians and politicians need to stand up and say no to Islam.

“The goal of these and other protests are [sic] to give Muslims an opportunity to convert,” Jones said.

Mainstream Muslim groups in the United States have denounced the announcement, but they noted that they would not take any direct action against the church.

Muslims across the US have faced extensive religious discrimination since the 9/11 attacks.

http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=136830&sectionid=3510203

[LC89]

Another negative campaign just to sell their religion.

[Leonid Brozhnev]

I saw this on Fashbook a few hours ago... I still haven't cleared the vomit from my keyboard. 'Dove World' is an ironic name for an organisation that dreams up hateful Islamophobic bullshit...

[Theoneontheleft]

They are probably the off-spring of the same hillbillies, that had "The Beatles" album bonfires in the Sixties.:mad:

[Adi Shankara]

what does book burning do? what's it supposed to do? they know that they are doing it to offend...they know it's not because they think the book is dangerous, they simply want to troll Muslims, nothing more.

Fuck religious IRL trolls. seriously. we all need to get along, this world is too goddamn small.

[The Vegan Marxist]

^will never happen as long as Capitalism remains standing. And I bet these racist fucks have never read the Quran. Spewing lies about it with anti-muslim rhetoric. These stupid zealots don't even know how their "savior" is the most quoted figure within the texts of the Quran.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

I saw this on Fashbook a few hours ago... I still haven't cleared the vomit from my keyboard. 'Dove World' is an ironic name for an organisation that dreams up hateful Islamophobic bullshit...

Hate groups often have ironic names.Just look at any of the anti-gay "christian" groups.All of them use the word family and god yet spew convulsive bullshit.

This is just another facet of the extreme right-false preaching coupled with hatemongering.Disgusting.How they can call themselves christians while keeping a straight face baffles me to no end.

[Nachie]

^will never happen as long as Capitalism remains standing. And I bet these racist fucks have never read the Quran. Spewing lies about it with anti-muslim rhetoric. These stupid zealots don't even know how their "savior" is the most quoted figure within the texts of the Quran.

I also heard that Immortal Technique song.

[NGNM85]

I find this group and their activities totally repellent. However, this is just a microcosm of the greater problem that is religion, itself.

[IllicitPopsicle]

"DARE to keep your kids away from churches" = possible t-shirt/picket sign to be used at whatever counterprotest there might be. This might be a disgusting act of bigotry, but it isn't very surprising in any case. On one hand, they are partially right, Islam is an evil religion, but they forgot to mention that Christianity and Judaism are evil as well.

And also: post no. 200!!

[Pretty Flaco]

You'd think that people would stay clear of burning books now-a-days.
http://bookcollectors.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/nazi-book-burning.jpg

[Hexen]

I sense a new Hitler on the rise...

[Widerstand]

I wonder if they are going to buy Qurans just to burn them...

[Delenda Carthago]

You'd think that people would stay clear of burning books now-a-days.
http://bookcollectors.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/nazi-book-burning.jpg

tottally irrelavent.

[theblackmask]

So does that mean we get a "Burn a Church Day" too?

[Raúl Duke]

Florida church
ah fucking Florida...

always setting itself apart in crazy/etc versus most other states

[GreenCommunism]

funny how free speech is supposed to allow you to burn american flag but then the whole media jumps on you and the government threaten to put you on a terrorist watch list, but then you can burn whoever's flag or book that you want.

this whole book burning thing is not racist at all! leave the kids alone!

You'd think that people would stay clear of burning books now-a-days.

not if you admire that particular man,some antifa's should go there and take a picture of everyone who is bald or with iron cross, good wealth of information.


I wonder if they are going to buy Qurans just to burn them...

yes, what kind of bad patriot would read the qu'ran, even if it is to 'know' your ennemy. next thing we know qu'ran book sales skyrocketed in 2010.

[Adil3tr]

I'm going to celebrate "Go tell a crusader to fuck himself" Day

[empiredestoryer]

i only thought that type of thing only happened in america s deep deep sister marrying brother bible belt im truly SHOCKED

[The Vegan Marxist]

tottally irrelavent.

Not completely, no. The burning of Jewish books, or anything relevant for what they saw as a "threat" to their way of thinking, was very well used by the Nazi's. How is this really different from the actions by the Christian fundamentalists?

[The Red Next Door]

Fucking disgusting Fascist piss excuse for human beings fucks!

[Buffalo Souljah]

i only thought that type of thing only happened in america s deep deep sister marrying brother bible belt im truly SHOCKED

You apparently are not familiar with the Florida Panhandle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Panhandle)...

[mykittyhasaboner]

So does that mean we get a "Burn a Church Day" too?


I'm going to celebrate "Go tell a crusader to fuck himself" Day

How about we strike at the root of the problem and have a "Burn Florida Day"?

[DragonQuestWes]

The whole "Fuck Islam" nonsense got old before it even started. How many of these "Draw Mohammed day"-esque events do we need to have around here?

I don't see what makes those Christian Islamophobes any better than the Muslims. I wonder if any of them realize that Christianity and Islam have the same god.

[BuddhaInBabylon]

I don't see what makes those Christian Islamophobes any better than the Muslims. I wonder if any of them realize that Christianity and Islam have the same god.

Fundamentalist Christians absolutely do NOT believe that their god is the same as the god of Islam. Abrahamic tradition is a poison beyond measure, for sure, but this kind of ignorance goes beyond religious intolerance. This is socio-political ignorance at its worst. I would bet my next paycheck that not one of the people who burn a koran/quran/(sp?) have ever met a muslim on a personal basis or had a conversation with somebody outside of their in group. Xenophobia is the root of this sickness i believe.

I don't know whether to have compassion for the likes of these, or utter disdain and wish death upon them....this world confuses me so.....

[NGNM85]

The whole "Fuck Islam" nonsense got old before it even started. How many of these "Draw Mohammed day"-esque events do we need to have around here?

I would draw a sharp distinction between the two. This group are obviously bigots simply celebrating their bigotry with probably more than a dash of thinly veiled racism. However, the 'Draw Mohammed Day" is more of a political statement, and I think, at least in spirit, a laudable one. Salman Rushdie, a perfectly harmless, quiet, fiction writer is marked for death across the world for writing a piece of fiction that was deemed to offend the prophet. Several attempts have been made on his life, Two translators of the book were stabbed, one was killed. A publisher was shot three times, but managed to survive. It's estimated that over 100 people were killed in riots in several countries in response to cartoons in a Danish newspaper. This kind of violent dogmatism is truly frightening and needs to be recognized and dealt with.


I don't see what makes those Christian Islamophobes any better than the Muslims. I wonder if any of them realize that Christianity and Islam have the same god.

They're equally crazy, and their ideas are equally offensive. However, the porportion of violent fanaticism is very different. However, Christianity, itself, has virtually nothing to do with this, but, rather, centuries of secularism.
It may be the same god (Although both camps will vehemently deny this.) but that doesn't change the fact that these religions are fundamentally incompatible.

[AK]

How about we just burn all the priests, bishops, ministers, imams and ayatollahs? No more inter-religious *****ing.

[The Fighting_Crusnik]

hmm... looks like Westboro has some competition in fundamenta-la-la-land... Seriously... it is amazing how stupid people get when it comes to religion... the fact is, is that if most people payed attention to what their religious texts say, crap like this wouldn't be going on... tbh, I think people like these people just use religion as a cover for their hate because it is easier to hide behind a religion than it is to be an all-out hate group...

[Revy]

I heard of this group on the local news (I live in Florida).

They said that America must stay true to the literal word of the Bible. So they are Christian extremists. Despite all their talk against Shari'a law they want the same thing except in a different flavor (Christian). They are acting out of religious hatred.

[Pretty Flaco]

I wonder if they are going to buy Qurans just to burn them...

"The free market speaks!"

[AK]

tottally irrelavent.
Actually it's very relevant. It's yet another right-wing witch-hunt aimed at scapegoat minorities which coincidentally uses the exact same tactic as the Nazis in the 30s.

[GreenCommunism]

I would draw a sharp distinction between the two. This group are obviously bigots simply celebrating their bigotry with probably more than a dash of thinly veiled racism. However, the 'Draw Mohammed Day" is more of a political statement, and I think, at least in spirit, a laudable one. Salman Rushdie, a perfectly harmless, quiet, fiction writer is marked for death across the world for writing a piece of fiction that was deemed to offend the prophet. Several attempts have been made on his life, Two translators of the book were stabbed, one was killed. A publisher was shot three times, but managed to survive. It's estimated that over 100 people were killed in riots in several countries in response to cartoons in a Danish newspaper. This kind of violent dogmatism is truly frightening and needs to be recognized and dealt with.

i disagree, everybody knows it pisses muslim off to draw muhammed, and drawing muhammed with a bomb on his head is offensive to me. the intent of the author was to test whether denmark lived in shariah law due to recent incident, very bnp-esque stuff.

yes salman rushdie shouldn't have a death fatwa. but it had nothing to do about it.

[#FF0000]

I would draw a sharp distinction between the two. This group are obviously bigots simply celebrating their bigotry with probably more than a dash of thinly veiled racism. However, the 'Draw Mohammed Day" is more of a political statement, and I think, at least in spirit, a laudable one. Salman Rushdie, a perfectly harmless, quiet, fiction writer is marked for death across the world for writing a piece of fiction that was deemed to offend the prophet. Several attempts have been made on his life, Two translators of the book were stabbed, one was killed. A publisher was shot three times, but managed to survive. It's estimated that over 100 people were killed in riots in several countries in response to cartoons in a Danish newspaper. This kind of violent dogmatism is truly frightening and needs to be recognized and dealt with.

I don't see what targeting 1.6 billion people has to do with that.

I mean it's one thing if Draw Muhammad day happened in a country where Muslims have a lot of political power, but that's not where the idea came from. It started in western countries where Islam is seen as a "foreign" and unsavory thing. I'm sure there are tons of well-meaning but misguided atheists who follow along with it as well, but that doesn't change the fact that these things aren't really about Islam in general or religion vs. reason. It's about targeting a small group of people that are seen as outsiders.


They're equally crazy, and their ideas are equally offensive. However, the porportion of violent fanaticism is very different. However, Christianity, itself, has virtually nothing to do with this, but, rather, centuries of secularism.

The difference between Christian fanatics and Muslims fanatics is one group uses suicide bombers and the other uses tomahawk missiles.


It may be the same god (Although both camps will vehemently deny this.)

That isn't true.


but that doesn't change the fact that these religions are fundamentally incompatible.

What do you mean by this?

[DragonQuestWes]

I would draw a sharp distinction between the two. This group are obviously bigots simply celebrating their bigotry with probably more than a dash of thinly veiled racism. However, the 'Draw Mohammed Day" is more of a political statement, and I think, at least in spirit, a laudable one. Salman Rushdie, a perfectly harmless, quiet, fiction writer is marked for death across the world for writing a piece of fiction that was deemed to offend the prophet. Several attempts have been made on his life, Two translators of the book were stabbed, one was killed. A publisher was shot three times, but managed to survive. It's estimated that over 100 people were killed in riots in several countries in response to cartoons in a Danish newspaper. This kind of violent dogmatism is truly frightening and needs to be recognized and dealt with.

I'm all for freedom of expression and the writer's right to depict or portray the prophet however he wants. To be easily offended by a mere writing or drawing is beyond me, but I just don't see the need of a "Draw Mohammed Day" event when anybody can just draw the prophet anytime.

[Invincible Summer]

“The goal of these and other protests are [sic] to give Muslims an opportunity to convert,” Jones said.



What the jesus fuck? Yeah, they'll really want to become Christians after you burn their sacred book. What the fuck kind of logic is that? :confused:

[NGNM85]

I don't see what targeting 1.6 billion people has to do with that.

That's a mischaracterization.


I mean it's one thing if Draw Muhammad day happened in a country where Muslims have a lot of political power, but that's not where the idea came from. It started in western countries where Islam is seen as a "foreign" and unsavory thing. I'm sure there are tons of well-meaning but misguided atheists who follow along with it as well, but that doesn't change the fact that these things aren't really about Islam in general or religion vs. reason. It's about targeting a small group of people that are seen as outsiders.

In the nicest way possible, that is almost completely wrong.

Let's first briefly go through the genesis of events for everybody who might not be familiar, after the Danish cartoon crisis the creators of South Park Trey Parker and Matt Stone decided to spoof it by featuring a character named 'Mohammad' in the cartoon covered completely in a fuzzy giant bear suit. The episode was censored by Comedy central, but not before they started receiving explicit death threats, most notably one on a Jihadist website which was accompanied by a picture of filmmaker Theo Van Gogh's (Who was shot to death and nearly decapitated by a Muslim fundamentalist for having the audacity to make a documentary of oppression of women in the Middle East.) dead body, ominously coupled with the addresses of the offices where the cartoon was produced.In response a fan started an intenet campaugn that picked up steam and the rest is history.

I do not deny that in the US there has been a lot of racism and 'Islamophobia" for lack of a better term, in recent years, which is deplorable. However, this is not an instance of picking on people because they are different. This is about standing up to terrorists, in the literal sense of the word, who would kill a man for apostasy, and have been quite willing to do so. Hezbollah's response to the Danish cartoon was that if only they’d killed Salman Rushdie immediately, then nobody would dare offend the prophet. This is absolutely unacceptable on every level.


The difference between Christian fanatics and Muslims fanatics is one group uses suicide bombers and the other uses tomahawk missiles.

Incorrect. Christian fanatics only blow up abortion clinics, and with much less frequency. We can't allow political correctness to totally blind us to reality. There is a crisis of fanaticism right now in the Muslim world. Pretending there isn't won't solve anything.


That isn't true.

I’m saying if you ask the fanatics. Try telling Osama bin Laden and Pat Robertson they believe in the same god.


What do you mean by this?

I meant it literally. These ‘holy’ books which each of their followers believe to be literally the word of the omnipotent creator of the universe, contain specific beliefs and rules for behavior that are incompatible with eachother. According to the Bible, all Muslims (Also Jews, Scientologists, Buddhists, etc.) inevitably go to hell. (Revealing the myth of religious tolerance.) The opposite is also true. This is the reason why, as long as we have more than one religion, we will have religious conflict.

[~Spectre]

Actually it's very relevant. It's yet another right-wing witch-hunt aimed at scapegoat minorities which coincidentally uses the exact same tactic as the Nazis in the 30s.

I think Juan Cole had a good bit on his blog:


This is more cult-like thinking, of the sort I discussed yesterday, in which ‘good’ equals ‘us’ and ‘evil’ equals people we don’t agree with.


The German poet Heinrich Heine (d. 1856), in his play lamenting the forced conversion of Spain’s Muslims to Christianity, “Almansor,” wrote, “Wherever they burn books, in the end they will burn human beings.” (When the Nazis burned books in 1933, Heine’s were among those set afire, and his prediction was borne out)

[Devrim]

It may be the same god (Although both camps will vehemently deny this.) but that doesn't change the fact that these religions are fundamentally incompatible.

Muslims don't. They are very clear that the God of the Christians and the Jews is the same as their god.



I’m saying if you ask the fanatics. Try telling Osama bin Laden and Pat Robertson they believe in the same god.


I am certain that bin Laden would tell you that his does believe in the same God as the Christians. It is a basic point of Islamic belief.

Devrim

[Devrim]

Incorrect. Christian fanatics only blow up abortion clinics, and with much less frequency. We can't allow political correctness to totally blind us to reality. There is a crisis of fanaticism right now in the Muslim world. Pretending there isn't won't solve anything.

It is not how it looks from the Middle East. To me it looks like the US is run by a fundamentalist Christian regime which has murdered at least 186,318 people (Oct 2006) according to the respected medical journal 'the Lancet'.

This is after all a President who called openly for a 'crusade', and whose troops in Afghanistan have just been revealed to have been murdering innocent civilians.

Devrim

[NGNM85]

It is not how it looks from the Middle East. To me it looks like the US is run by a fundamentalist Christian regime which has murdered at least 186,318 people (Oct 2006) according to the respected medical journal 'the Lancet'.

This is after all a President who called openly for a 'crusade', and whose troops in Afghanistan have just been revealed to have been murdering innocent civilians.
Devrim
President Bush is a religious man, but the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were not religiously motivated, nor were they claimed to be. It was claimed to be an act of self-defense, when in actuality it was about economics and American hegemony. I'm not saying it isn't deplorable, but it is different.

I am certain that bin Laden would tell you that his does believe in the same God as the Christians. It is a basic point of Islamic belief.
Osama bin Laden; "Every Muslim, from the moment they realize the distinction in their hearts, hates American, hates Jews, and hates Christians. This is a part of our belief and our religion."

[Devrim]

Osama bin Laden; "Every Muslim, from the moment they realize the distinction in their hearts, hates American, hates Jews, and hates Christians. This is a part of our belief and our religion."

It doesn't mean that he thinks it is a different God. He might believe that the Christians and Jews have distorted the true words of God, but the God is the same, and the prophets of the Old Testament and Jesus are the prophets of Islam.



President Bush is a religious man, but the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were not religiously motivated, nor were they claimed to be. It was claimed to be an act of self-defense, when in actuality it was about economics and American hegemony. I'm not saying it isn't deplorable, but it is different.

Hezbollah and HAMAS are religious organisations, but the wars in Palestine and Lebanon are not religiously motivated.

[NGNM85]

It doesn't mean that he thinks it is a different God. He might believe that the Christians and Jews have distorted the true words of God, but the God is the same, and the prophets of the Old Testament and Jesus are the prophets of Islam.

I think he'd tell you his god is too good for the Infidels. I think Pat Robertson would say the same thing about him, but with different jargon.


Hezbollah and HAMAS are religious organisations, but the wars in Palestine and Lebanon are not religiously motivated.

I don't dispute that. I was speaking in the context of Best Mod's statement, which I was replying to, which was inaccurate.

[AK]

Osama bin Laden; "Every Muslim, from the moment they realize the distinction in their hearts, hates American, hates Jews, and hates Christians. This is a part of our belief and our religion."
If you think that whatever bin Laden says about Islam is correct then you really are gullible.

[Devrim]

I think he'd tell you his god is too good for the Infidels. I think Pat Robertson would say the same thing about him, but with different jargon.

Whilst he may even go as far as to say the Christians have completly distorted Jesus' message, and that deifying him was even blasphemous, he would not contest that the Muslim god is the same because it clear is. I think to dispute that shows a real lack of knowledge of what Islam is.


I don't dispute that. I was speaking in the context of Best Mod's statement, which I was replying to, which was inaccurate.

He wrote that "The difference between Christian fanatics and Muslims fanatics is one group uses suicide bombers and the other uses tomahawk missiles.", and my point was that that is how it seems here in the Middle East.

Devrim

[#FF0000]

Let's first briefly go through the genesis of events for everybody who might not be familiar, after the Danish cartoon crisis the creators of South Park Trey Parker and Matt Stone decided to spoof it by featuring a character named 'Mohammad' in the cartoon covered completely in a fuzzy giant bear suit. The episode was censored by Comedy central, but not before they started receiving explicit death threats, most notably one on a Jihadist website which was accompanied by a picture of filmmaker Theo Van Gogh's (Who was shot to death and nearly decapitated by a Muslim fundamentalist for having the audacity to make a documentary of oppression of women in the Middle East.) dead body, ominously coupled with the addresses of the offices where the cartoon was produced.In response a fan started an intenet campaugn that picked up steam and the rest is history. [/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]

I'm not denying that this happens but these death threats were on the part of a relative handful of people, and the response was to ridicule the beliefs of Muslims in general. Like I said, I know the aim of atheists who take part is to just to target some sacred cows but context is really, really important.


I do not deny that in the US there has been a lot of racism and 'Islamophobia" for lack of a better term, in recent years, which is deplorable. However, this is not an instance of picking on people because they are different. This is about standing up to terrorists, in the literal sense of the word, who would kill a man for apostasy, and have been quite willing to do so. Hezbollah's response to the Danish cartoon was that if only they’d killed Salman Rushdie immediately, then nobody would dare offend the prophet. This is absolutely unacceptable on every level.


Sure, but honestly, why should I care what fanatics in a whole other country say when there are far more well funded and dangerous ones


Incorrect. Christian fanatics only blow up abortion clinics, and with much less frequency. We can't allow political correctness to totally blind us to reality. There is a crisis of fanaticism right now in the Muslim world. Pretending there isn't won't solve anything.


No. Fundamentalist christians in the United States tend to have some very, very strong political ties. See: Bush saying God spoke to him on invading Iraq, Donald Rumsfeld's bible verse memos, and the serial numbers on military issue weapons being references to bible verses.

But, yeah, fanatics have a lot of power in parts of the middle east, but it's important to remember that it's a direct result of U.S. imperialism, and that these little stunts that marginalize muslims in the west won't solve it either.

[NGNM85]

I'm not denying that this happens but these death threats were on the part of a relative handful of people, and the response was to ridicule the beliefs of Muslims in general. Like I said, I know the aim of atheists who take part is to just to target some sacred cows but context is really, really important.

Context is extremely important, that's why I went over the genesis of events. Actually, it's not such a small group. It's likely at least several hundred thousand support the fatwa against Rushdie. I also don't see this as in any way singling out, or picking on Islam. If Christian extremists were murdering people simply for producing images of their god, I'd plaster his picture across my bumper, I'd wear it on a t-shirt. Moreover, tolerance is a two-way street, when the response to the greivance is to kill the other party, we've gone beyond tolerance.


Sure, but honestly, why should I care what fanatics in a whole other country say when there are far more well funded and dangerous ones

I think it affects the whole world, clearly. I mean, the creators of South Park were threatened. Van Gogh wasn't killed in Pakistan, he was kiled in Amsterdam. Rushdie was almost killed in England, there's really no limit, no geographical location where one is safe. Islamic Extremism is something we have to recognize, it isn't going to go away. However, the broader problem, the bigger problem, is religion itself. This is just a symptom of the disease.



No. Fundamentalist christians in the United States tend to have some very, very strong political ties. See: Bush saying God spoke to him on invading Iraq, Donald Rumsfeld's bible verse memos, and the serial numbers on military issue weapons being references to bible verses.

Yes, but you can't compare the Bush administration to Al-Qaeda, the wars in the Middle East were not religiously motivated.


But, yeah, fanatics have a lot of power in parts of the middle east, but it's important to remember that it's a direct result of U.S. imperialism, and that these little stunts that marginalize muslims in the west won't solve it either.

I don't think this should be of any great concern or offense to Muslim moderates.

US foreign policy has created a space for radical Islam to thrive, it has created spaces where it could live, it has created conditions that fertilize it, that sustain it. However, that isn't the whole picture. Ultimately, it comes out of the books, themselves. this is why we need to seriously deal with religion.

[NGNM85]

Whilst he may even go as far as to say the Christians have completly distorted Jesus' message, and that deifying him was even blasphemous, he would not contest that the Muslim god is the same because it clear is. I think to dispute that shows a real lack of knowledge of what Islam is.

I think you're making these statements with an unwarranted confidence. I think you'll find, as a rule, religious extremists of all denominations have no interest whatsoever in ecuminicism or religious tolerance.


He wrote that "The difference between Christian fanatics and Muslims fanatics is one group uses suicide bombers and the other uses tomahawk missiles.", and my point was that that is how it seems here in the Middle East.

Devrim

That might be a perception, but it's an inaccurate perception. US foreign policy is not determined by scripture.

[#FF0000]

I don't think this should be of any great concern or offense to Muslim moderates.

Except it is, because not everyone who is in on it believes that it's only "extremist" islam that is the problem. There is a huge number of people who believe it is just Islam, and who associate Islam with foreigners. Several hundred people is a tiny minority of people out of 1.6 billion, or, if you like, the much smaller numbers of muslims who live in any given Western country. Because of what this minority of all Muslims says or does, the "Draw Muhammad Day" crowd is targeting every Muslim, moderate or otherwise.

There is a racist, nativist side to this whole thing that you really shouldn't ignore. There is always a huge racist element in attacking the cultural or religious beliefs of a minority.


US foreign policy has created a space for radical Islam to thrive, it has created spaces where it could live, it has created conditions that fertilize it, that sustain it. However, that isn't the whole picture. Ultimately, it comes out of the books, themselves.


Islam is thousands of years old and Radical Islam as a serious movement is about Fifty. I think U.S. Imperialism is the bigger and more important part of this picture.

[Devrim]

I think you're making these statements with an unwarranted confidence. I think you'll find, as a rule, religious extremists of all denominations have no interest whatsoever in ecuminicism or religious tolerance.

No, I am making these statements with an understanding of Islam. I never said anything at all about' ecuminicism or religious tolerance'. I merely stated that all Muslim recognise that their God is the same God as that of the Christians and Jews. This is true.


That might be a perception, but it's an inaccurate perception. US foreign policy is not determined by scripture.

No, I don't think that it is though religion does bear some influence on that policy.

However the perceptions of people in the Middle East are real things and can't just be discounted. To a certain extent it doesn't matter what the reality is, or what the US claims, but it is the perceptions that people have that effect their reactions to US policy.

Devrim

[NGNM85]

Except it is, because not everyone who is in on it believes that it's only "extremist" islam that is the problem. There is a huge number of people who believe it is just Islam, and who associate Islam with foreigners. Several hundred people is a tiny minority of people out of 1.6 billion, or, if you like, the much smaller numbers of muslims who live in any given Western country. Because of what this minority of all Muslims says or does, the "Draw Muhammad Day" crowd is targeting every Muslim, moderate or otherwise.

That's the thing, I'm not so sure because I don't think the moderates care.

I also said several hundred thousand, I was also being extremely generous. I think the real number is considerably larger.


There is a racist, nativist side to this whole thing that you really shouldn't ignore. There is always a huge racist element in attacking the cultural or religious beliefs of a minority.

Where does that leave us? Again, I find the kind of racist bile that's floating around the edges of our culture very offensive. However, I don't see any sense in being totally paralyzed and blinded by political correctness to the point where we can't call a spade a spade. It isn't racist to say that there is a huge problem of fanaticism in the Muslim world, or that the ideas religious extremists preach come right out of their respective texts.

[#FF0000]

That's the thing, I'm not so sure because I don't think the moderates care.

I also said several hundred thousand, I was also being extremely generous. I think the real number is considerably larger.

They definitely do care, not because their religion is being attacked so much but because they're being lumped in with terrorists and attacked because of their religion. You can't tell me that this doesn't happen, and I can tell you it happens a lot. That racist bile you talk about isn't just around the edges of our culture. We're caught swimming in it.



Where does that leave us? Again, I find the kind of racist bile that's floating around the edges of our culture very offensive. However, I don't see any sense in being totally paralyzed and blinded by political correctness to the point where we can't call a spade a spade. It isn't racist to say that there is a huge problem of fanaticism in the Muslim world, or that the ideas religious extremists preach come right out of their respective texts.

It's not a matter of political correctness. The problem in the Middle East isn't with extremists, it's with Imperialists. Without Western Imperialism, then religious extremists in the Middle East wouldn't have near as much power. It's really simple as that.

[KurtFF8]

Gainesville Area SDS against "Burn a Qu'ran" day (http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/event.php?eid=124666397579673) (FB event page)

[NGNM85]

If you think that whatever bin Laden says about Islam is correct then you really are gullible.

I think it correctly represents how he feels about it. Again, religious fanatics by nature are extremely intolerant, and hostile to ecuminicism. Also, what tends to define religious fanatics is religious literalism. These belief systems are simply incompatible. The New Testament is extremely clear about this; anyone, who does not accept Christ to be the lord and savior is a heretic, and destined for an eternity of suffering in the next world, if not this one. These religions have common origins, and strong similarities, but they are absolutely fundamentally incompatible.

[Peace on Earth]

Can we burn a pile of Bibles next door?

[Magón]

Can we burn a pile of Bibles next door?

Sure! But you're gonna need a snazzier name than "Burn a Bible Day".

[BuddhaInBabylon]

Incinerate the holy text of jehova extravaganza!!!!!!!!

[Magón]

Incinerate the holy text of jehova extravaganza!!!!!!!!

LOL It'd be funny if you just had it called "Text of Jehovah Extravaganza Day", and end up with a whole bunch of Christian Right-Wingers showing up with their copies. It would add to the numbers burned though if you deceived them more. :lol:

[NGNM85]

Can we burn a pile of Bibles next door?

Perhaps an idea whose time has come. we'd be better off without either of these dubious tomes.

[Pretty Flaco]

Burning Qu'rans is bad! But let's show the people that we care and burn some Bibles, yeah?..

What kind of fucked up person would suggest burning any book?

[NGNM85]

Burning Qu'rans is bad! But let's show the people that we care and burn some Bibles, yeah?..

What kind of fucked up person would suggest burning any book?

I don't mean to give the wrong impression, I'm totally opposed to any form of censorship. I simply meant that it's past time, as a species, that we cast off these ancient dogmas and move on.

[human strike]

So does that mean we get a "Burn a Church Day" too?

The only church that enlightens is a church that is burning.

[AK]

Burning Qu'rans is bad! But let's show the people that we care and burn some Bibles, yeah?..

What kind of fucked up person would suggest burning any book?
I'd suggest Christians burn the Bible.

[Chambered Word]

Burning Qu'rans is bad! But let's show the people that we care and burn some Bibles, yeah?..

What kind of fucked up person would suggest burning any book?

I agree, why wouldn't you just burn your country's flag? It makes a lot more sense than torching religious texts.

[RadioRaheem84]

Islamic Extremism is something we have to recognize, it isn't going to go away. However, the broader problem, the bigger problem, is religion itself. This is just a symptom of the disease.

Religion is the symptom of something bigger, NGN. Why do you insist that it's the major problem?

[KurtFF8]

I made a small post about this on the Leftists in the US South blog http://southernleftists.wordpress.com/2010/08/08/burn-a-quran-day/

[Communist Guy]

I don't see how this is going to make any Muslim convert to christianity. What kind of an idiot would say 'Hey, they just burnt my holy book. The book I consider sacred and the most important book of my life. The book that is always on the top of any pile of books as is required by my religion. The book I read regularly and in Arabic, its original language, so as not to change its meaning. I'm gonna become christian now...'

Nobody's going to do something stupid like that.

These degenerated right-wing christians have clearly never read the Quran or many other books for that matter.

I highly doubt they know that the names of people like Jesus and Mary are mentioned many more times in the Quran than in the Bible.

Nor do they know that the word 'Allah' actually means 'God' in Arabic and that christians and jews who live in Arab speaking countries such as Egypt actually call Him Allah.

Nor do they know that 99% of Muslims believe that christians and jews worship the same God as them.

This act will only serve to anger the extremists more. It is both completely pointless and disgustingly racist and xenophobic.

This act is extremely offensive to all Muslims including the ones who arent practicing. Chances are that a couple of Muslims who live nearby will ruin the party.

I can already see the news of September 12th. 'Dozens killed in Quran burning event'

And to be honest, I don't think anyone should consider it terrorism. I certainly wont. You cant possibly expect to do something this horrible and offensive and get away with it.

Who would burn a book anyway? As previously posted, people who burn books are generally pretty evil. Plus its a waste of money and terrible for the environment.

[Steve_j]

Can we burn a pile of Bibles next door?

Just turn up and toss a bible in their little bonfire an then loudly proclaim "opps sorry wrong book!"

[Coggeh]

What you be a good idea would be to go into a church before mass and change all the little word of day things to like tiny versions of the communist manifesto

[Communist Guy]

What you be a good idea would be to go into a church before mass and change all the little word of day things to like tiny versions of the communist manifesto

I don't think it would be a good idea

I am not christian and I communist. However I believe everyone has the right to believe in what they want.

What will being offensive to the worlds largest religion do to help our cause?

[Rafiq]

Just to let you all know, Terry Jones, the leader of this campaign, was just arrested for CHILD PORNOGRAPHY. The guy who started Burn the Quran day was molesting little girls and filming them NAKED while doing so. What a sick fuck. When can we start BURN TERRY JONES day.

[leninfan]

Just to let you all know, Terry Jones, the leader of this campaign, was just arrested for CHILD PORNOGRAPHY. The guy who started Burn the Quran day was molesting little girls and filming them NAKED while doing so. What a sick fuck. When can we start BURN TERRY JONES day.

I'm going to get the link.

He will pay in the klink.

[leninfan]

I couldn't find it.

Why would anyone do anything that the fucking Nazis did?

[Rafiq]

I couldn't find it.

Why would anyone do anything that the fucking Nazis did?


Go on google, search: Terry Jones Arrested

[leninfan]

Go on google, search: Terry Jones Arrested

It was in August it said and I think I saw him on the news lately...

[Obzervi]

These people are sick and obviously base their entire worldview on what fox news tells them. They do just what the capitalists tell them to do and allow religion to divide the working class. I don't give a fuck about "free speech", words lead to actions and stuff like this can lead to killings of people simply because they are different.

[Ztrain]

Its stuff like that that makes people want to ram planes into skyscrapers....

[Invincible Summer]

I meant it literally. These ‘holy’ books which each of their followers believe to be literally the word of the omnipotent creator of the universe, contain specific beliefs and rules for behavior that are incompatible with eachother. According to the Bible, all Muslims (Also Jews, Scientologists, Buddhists, etc.) inevitably go to hell. (Revealing the myth of religious tolerance.) The opposite is also true. This is the reason why, as long as we have more than one religion, we will have religious conflict.

If I'm not mistaken, Islam states that all other religions are different paths to Allah.

And also, your hypothesis merely states that as long as we have Christianity and Islam we will have religious conflict.

[NGNM85]

If I'm not mistaken, Islam states that all other religions are different paths to Allah.

It depends which passages you cite and how you interpret it. According to the extremists, even Shiites are 'infidels', or 'non-Muslims.'


And also, your hypothesis merely states that as long as we have Christianity and Islam we will have religious conflict.

I focus on the Abrahamic faiths for fairly obvious reasons. They make up around 60% or more of the faithful, they are the predominant religions in the West, which is where I and tha majority of members of this site live, etc. They also have long, bloody histories. Yes, as long as we have Christianity and Islam there will most likely be religious conflict, however, this phenomena is not limited to these two religions. Most religions are incompatible with eachother, such incompatibility often manifests itself through violence. However, this is not a total absolute. for instance, if Tibetan Buddhism and Jainism were the only existing religions, despite their differences, there would likely be little, if any, religious violence. This is due to the particular beliefs and attitudes of these religions. However, this does not mean we should be promoting Tibetan Buddhism and Jainism. While they may be pacifist in nature, they are still fundamentally irrational.