General Football discussion II [Archive]

Wanted Man

3rd August 2010, 13:57

So how would people here feel if their countries launched a World Cup bid? There is currently a joint bid of Belgium and the Netherlands for either the 2018 or 2022 tournament, but there is growing resentment against this.

Politicians in both countries are increasingly beginning to discover the downsides to hosting the tournament. FIFA officials will demand their own highway lanes for travel between stadiums, they do not want to give any of their billion-euro earnings to the host nations in taxes or VAT, they do not want any other brands besides sponsors within a 2 km zone around the stadiums, etc. Just like in South Africa, Sepp Blatter (or rather, his successor by that time) will basically become president for a month.

At this stage, it's becoming increasingly ridiculous that people like Cruyff and Gullit are involved in a campaign with little chance of succeeding; even if it does, you have to wonder whether you really want it. Another source of irritation is that in both countries, the decision to back the bid was taken by caretaker governments, because new governments have not yet been formed after the elections. Some Belgian politicians are now trying to discuss the countries' "bid books" before parliament after all, because these decisions should not be made without consulting parliament at all.

At the moment, I'd agree with them and say: fuck that shit. It's insane to host a World Cup as a purely nationalistic prestige project.

3rd August 2010, 16:27

If we could get WC we would benefit from one thing, we would get brand new stadiums:lol: But aint gonna happen, obviously, there would be worthless after the WC.

ComradeOm

3rd August 2010, 17:25

At the moment, I'd agree with them and say: fuck that shit. It's insane to host a World Cup as a purely nationalistic prestige project.Well yes, but it would be undeniably brilliant to have the World Cup (the World Cup!) in your country

That said, what is needed is for a high profile nation (like NL) to publicly rebuff FIFA and make it clear that all these extras (from draconian sponsorship laws to FIFA courts) are not acceptable

Wanted Man

3rd August 2010, 17:53

Sure it would be cool, but you'd have to wonder what you want to concede to FIFA as a country. I agree that some of the larger bidding nations should make some clear conditions about this kind of thing. Among several nations, England is also bidding, and there is a joint bid between Spain and Portugal. They should take a stronger stance. Of course, chances are that in that case, they'll simply look towards other nations like Russia.

If all goes well, it would be pretty cool, but I think it's ridiculous if the host nations get nothing but expenditures. It will be interesting to see whether they will actually finish a new stadium in Rotterdam on time (otherwise, there won't be any stadiums with >80,000 capacity). It would also be a boost for the sub-top clubs if this gave them the opportunity to expand their stadiums further. And of course, the epitome of cool would be to see football in the old Olympic Stadium of Amsterdam again, especially when it's the World Cup. :cool:

We'll have to see how it goes. At the moment, I doubt the bid even has much chance. I don't think there's much truth to Lord Triesman's statements in May, but I do get the feeling that you need to play dirty to get a World Cup. You won't get there with a squeaky-clean environmentally-friendly 2-nation bid. But maybe that's just gut feeling. If it does fail, it would be nice to try and get the Euros again. In fact, with proper ambition shown, I'd say the Netherlands could do it all by themselves. Euro 2008 had 8 venues with >30,000 capacity. With two stadiums in both Amsterdam and Rotterdam and the one in Eindhoven, you'd only have to expand three more stadiums and you'd be done. It would be extremely easy to find three clubs looking to expand anyway (Twente, Groningen and Heerenveen for instance).

EDIT: I was reading up on this, and I saw that Spain and Portugal want a whopping 21 venues. Holy shit!

4th August 2010, 21:36

:crying::mad::crying::mad::crying::mad::crying::ma d::crying: 4-1 and goodbye CL. We have europa league now, but possible teams are liverpool, juventus, galata, sporting, and a lot others powerful teams, we will have to be very lucky to get a decent draw, and decent means not one from top leagues...:crying::mad:

Wanted Man

6th August 2010, 19:38

Too bad. :(

All our clubs are through. Ajax will play Dinamo Kiev for a place in the CL group stage. For the EL, it looks like this:

PSV: Sibir Novosibirsk
Feyenoord: AA Gent
FC Utrecht: Celtic
AZ: FK Aktobe

Far trips for PSV and AZ, to Siberia and Kazakhstan, respectively. Should be interesting.

Tifosi

7th August 2010, 00:07

What are Utrecht like to play Wanted Man?

7th August 2010, 00:42

We are traveling also to Ukraine for the EL playoff WM, against Mentalist though, but i pretty much know nothing about this team..It aint one of the big and well known teams, who in the past had some good appearances, but i have heard they have builded a strong team.

RotStern

7th August 2010, 07:51

Who's excited for the Bundesliga!? SANKT PAULI!!! I hope I can be back in Germany soon enough for the SP vs HSV game. It's going to be awesome. :D

Wanted Man

7th August 2010, 09:21

What are Utrecht like to play Wanted Man?

I think they might yet surprise you (I assume you're a Celtic fan). Of course, Celtic are favourites, but anything can happen. Utrecht have put a pretty good team together this season. They were taken over by a major investor in 2008, and they've been pretty ambitious since then. I'd say their best player is Dries Mertens, the Belgian attacking midfielder. Great technical player. Some footage from last season:

VcRT_QwIe6A

Also, the goals from Luzern vs Utrecht, their latest European match. Luzern were pushovers, though:

-UIV9LOMxqg

We are traveling also to Ukraine for the EL playoff WM, against Mentalist though, but i pretty much know nothing about this team..It aint one of the big and well known teams, who in the past had some good appearances, but i have heard they have builded a strong team.

Well, if they're called "Mentalist", they're probably from the psych ward. I assume you mean Metalist? :p Looks like a typical Ukrainian team with several unknown Brazilians. You never know with them...

Andropov

7th August 2010, 11:13

Well, if they're called "Mentalist", they're probably from the psych ward. I assume you mean Metalist? :p Looks like a typical Ukrainian team with several unknown Brazilians. You never know with them...
Never under-estimate the Ukrainian League.
Some very talented Eastern Europeans go East instead of West and like you said WM a splatter of Brazilians and Argentinians aswell.
But the likes of Dinamo Kiev, Shakhtar, Dnipro etc are all decent sides and likewise for Metalist.
On a side not did anyone ever hear about how Shakhtar identify themselves as a kind of multi-ethnic club because of the ethnic composition of Shakhtar with peoples thrown togethor from all over central asia and the greater Eastern European region?
They see themselves as the Barca of the East, a city that is multi-cultured etc and primarily made of immigrants.

7th August 2010, 16:28

Well, if they're called "Mentalist", they're probably from the psych ward. I assume you mean Metalist? http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies/001_tongue.gif Looks like a typical Ukrainian team with several unknown Brazilians. You never know with them...

haha yeah, my hand got to type my more known word:lol:Yeah, they are undoubtly better team, they have like 3x the budget, but with other teams we could play.. it was a good draw.They sold and their striker, which is good news for us:thumbup1: but salzburg sold their striker too, and we got 5 from all the others:mad:

Wanted Man

7th August 2010, 18:24

Never under-estimate the Ukrainian League.
Some very talented Eastern Europeans go East instead of West and like you said WM a splatter of Brazilians and Argentinians aswell.
But the likes of Dinamo Kiev, Shakhtar, Dnipro etc are all decent sides and likewise for Metalist.

Yeah, that's why I said that "you never know with them", i.e. in the sense that they can really surprise you. Most people take these teams for granted, but over the past few years they've certainly played a bigger role in European competitions than Dutch sides, for instance. Let alone Scottish, Belgian, Scandinavian, etc.

They are definitely tough sides. It's no wonder that Martin Jol said that Dinamo Kiev were the toughest team that Ajax could draw for the next round.

On a side not did anyone ever hear about how Shakhtar identify themselves as a kind of multi-ethnic club because of the ethnic composition of Shakhtar with peoples thrown togethor from all over central asia and the greater Eastern European region?
They see themselves as the Barca of the East, a city that is multi-cultured etc and primarily made of immigrants.

That's pretty interesting. I didn't know that. An interesting new chapter in the story of a city that was founded by a Welshman, and was called "Stalino" in the past, and even allegedly "Trotsk" for a brief period. :cool:

Andropov

7th August 2010, 19:31

That's pretty interesting. I didn't know that. An interesting new chapter in the story of a city that was founded by a Welshman, and was called "Stalino" in the past, and even allegedly "Trotsk" for a brief period. :cool:
Dont quote me on this but I think that wealthy backer from Donetsk that backs Shakhtar is actually of Azeri decent, definetly not the ethnic Ukrainian Catholic the dominates Western Ukraine.

Wanted Man

8th August 2010, 07:23

Well, on Friday, our league kicked off, and there were more games yesterday. Today, however, will be of more interest to me: Ajax will face their first test (besides the bloody CL qualifications and the lost Super Cup) against FC Groningen.

9th August 2010, 04:46

We won the Super Cup last night:thumbup1: we may have problem in europe, obviously there are some great teams there, but our first goal is the championship and nothing less!i dont give a fuck about cl groups if i get championship.We have some time before our league starts though, next week its a national team friendly, and we have 8 players in cyprus... the will rename it OMONOIA national team:lol:

Andropov

9th August 2010, 10:57

Wanted Man

9th August 2010, 12:35

9th August 2010, 12:43

Fuser how does the Cypriot league have so much money?
If I remember correctly a few years ago it was only a shadow of how strong the Cypriot league is now.

Money aint a lot, our budget this year is consider the biggest, and its around 15millions(some of you may dont know, so thats why the explanation, budget is not only salarys of players and coaches).Few businessmans decided to get few teams, and spend a lot, so the other big teams had to "follow", so they kept spending money too, as we have no large bunisinessman though(up until recently) we had our worst time this decade, just 3 championships, but we managed to throw the fucking earlier "president" out, and voted on a new one, who contributed a lot to bring us here we are, and really he must be one of the few that added so much money, with nothing to win, else than teams success(his company is a big construction one, so there is no much point of "advertising in football), so when he came to us, and we started getting players, the other teams started throwing money around to get themselves players too, of course we did it better and we got the championship:cool: The money aint a lot though, i repeat, for cyprus standards the 15 million is something that people talk a lot about, while salzburg had 50m budget and metalist as i heard 60m, but still we managed despite the away crush from salzburg, to show that cyprus league its not that behind(beside, we are 20th in uefa rankings, and austria is 19th), so yeah the money had a role to play in this, but there are a lot other factors also.I think one of those is that the island lives for football(and talking about that 50% of the population is an OMONOIA fan:cool:)

Andropov

9th August 2010, 15:40

Money aint a lot, our budget this year is consider the biggest, and its around 15millions(some of you may dont know, so thats why the explanation, budget is not only salarys of players and coaches).Few businessmans decided to get few teams, and spend a lot, so the other big teams had to "follow", so they kept spending money too, as we have no large bunisinessman though(up until recently) we had our worst time this decade, just 3 championships, but we managed to throw the fucking earlier "president" out, and voted on a new one, who contributed a lot to bring us here we are, and really he must be one of the few that added so much money, with nothing to win, else than teams success(his company is a big construction one, so there is no much point of "advertising in football), so when he came to us, and we started getting players, the other teams started throwing money around to get themselves players too, of course we did it better and we got the championship:cool: The money aint a lot though, i repeat, for cyprus standards the 15 million is something that people talk a lot about, while salzburg had 50m budget and metalist as i heard 60m, but still we managed despite the away crush from salzburg, to show that cyprus league its not that behind(beside, we are 20th in uefa rankings, and austria is 19th), so yeah the money had a role to play in this, but there are a lot other factors also.I think one of those is that the island lives for football(and talking about that 50% of the population is an OMONOIA fan:cool:)
15 million doesnt seem alot in comparison to the bigger European Leagues but in comparison to the Irish league its just enormous.
Like my own team which is basically a mid table side has a budget of 1.2 million or so for the whole season.
The cypriot league has come in leaps and bounds in comparison to the Irish league when a few years ago there wasnt much between us with the likes of Cork City knocking out Appollon out of the Champions League, must have been 4 or 5 years ago now.
Does Cyprus not have the same problem as Ireland with say Cypriots supporting the Greek league instead of their own like with how Irish people support English teams?

Pretty Flaco

9th August 2010, 19:41

Newcastle FC's first premier league game is against Man U... fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck :(

9th August 2010, 19:48

We do support greek teams, most down here have a second team which comes from greece, but football is so much on the peoples routine, is one of the most discussed subjects(and not just between males, we have a lot female fans too) that always our team comes first, the greek one is more of a hobby :p For example im "supporting" AEK Athens in greece, but few years ago, when we played them in UEFA, i had no doubts on who to doubt, and i was even at the stadium flaming etc AEK:lol: Our teams first, and everything else comes second. Also in OMONOIA fans, there is a big anti-national trend, especially against greece, our club was created against nationalism, so with that, and having in mind that the other 3 "big" teams, are all nationalists-fascists, the anti-national banners were pretty often, but last few years and with the big fines, punishments etc, you dont see much, just few "hidden" messages;)

9th August 2010, 20:11

I read an interview involving Omonoia in the train just yesterday. It was in a book full of football stories from the Dutch magazine "Hard Gras". The story was about Stijn Vreven, the Belgian player who went to Omonoia after he was basically forced to leave Vitesse. At the time, the Dutch-Moroccan keeper Khalid Sinouh (terrible goalie btw) was also at Omonoia. Some nice things from the story:

Oh god sinouh!!:bored:Terrible is not enough, one of the worst keepers i ever saw.I remember when he was signed in a big team, and i said it how useless he is, and how surprised i was with that(was it with Ajax?i cant remember at all) that man should change a sport, for sure:lol:

Matches: the tactics consisted of kicking the ball forwards as fast as possible. Sometimes, the ball would end up with Paolo Rink, who would then dribble until he lost it again. Vreven, a rather hard player in the Dutch league, was much too soft for this league.

One of our wirst periods this guy was here, tbh i remember the name, but cant recall anything else about him!Neither what possition he played, how he did or anything like that, i wikid him though, and saw that he only had 6 appearences so that aint that much of a suprise, we had lots players with few appearances and 0 contribution since the day i started following OMONOIA, things only changed last couple of years.We used to buy/sell like 11 players each year at that time... Also, Rink didnt play a lot either, i remember him, cause he used to be one of my favourite, for sure one of those players standing out of the crowd and showing he is better than everyone else, he owe him a couple of wins, but shortly he was realeased too, he was too old.I dont remember the football in 2006 to be hard, definitely harder from now, but still, probably vreven was too soft(in general) or he was just trying to justify his leaving.We were mostly based on speed, rather than skills, technique, or height for long passes etc

Supporters during the matches: at Famagusta, the opposing fans threw tiles into the pitch and a smoke bomb into the dressing room. In the home match against Olympiakos, the fans sang a song that apparently translated as "Sons of *****es, we fuck your women". Because he played at Omonoia, the player and his family constantly got gifts and discounts from the pizza boy, the pharmacy, etc.

Cool periods, of course after those, we were running the famagusta fans all around their stadium, and we destroyed GSP, which is both out home stadium:thumbup1: Now there are like 50 cops with heavy equipment in low danger games, plus 50 or more stewards... As for the song from olympiakos fans, those guys are hardly getting more than 1000 fans, they were in second division last year, they may said those things, but i cant think of any chant with the particular words, maybe something was lost in translation.
As for the gifts and discounts, yeah normal things, everyone who is OMONOIA fan, when s/he sees a player, we go welcome them, call them for food, a drink, those with restaurants etc offer them at any time etc, as i said, football is the biggest peoples hobby(for some a job:cool:) and we treat our players as family(unless they are useless, or something like that :p).Obviously this has and its other side, when they disappoint their lifes can get a bit hard:lol:

Manager: the manager was the Romanian Andone, who apparently treated the players like slaves. He would constantly make them run with weights on, and after that, he would demand that they train harder, while he lighted another cigarette. Andone was beloved by the fans, because he made the players work hard. They affectionately called him "our Hitler" and "the dictator". After a couple of mistakes, Sinouh was immediately dropped from the team.

our hitler, the dictator:lol: Bullshit, i remember andone very well, one of the few good coaches we had, at a very bad time for us, he was never called anything like that from our fans, we never had any information on that he treats the players like slaves, and i believe(not believe im sure) that i would know it if he did, there are people who were going almost every day at the trainings, so we all had our inside information(sadly or not, our current coach, dont allows open trainings at all.
Sinouh didnt made a couple of mistakes, he made a lot mistakes, and all were critical, all were soooo stupid, he showed absolutely nothing positive, slow, not quick reactions, not penalty saver, not fucking smart and a lot other nots.

Most of the story was about Vitesse, but I thought the parts about Omonoia were pretty funny. Must be one hell of an atmosphere when they're playing. If I ever get the chance to go to Cyprus, I'll definitely go and see a match.

I would speed it up if i were you :p they are trying to pass a new law where each and every fan, in order to be allowed to buy a ticket, go to a match, must create a new "fan card" which will contain all the fans info, and those of course will be send to police, for close "monitoring" of hooligans:rolleyes: If this passes, there are thoughts and thats what probably will happen, of not creating that shit, and just go outside from the stadiums and have the "party" outside.Of course if that happens, maybe it will seem cooler, singing from outside the stadium, with drinks, fires etc(yes we did it again :p) but its different to have the opposite fans against you.

ComradeOm

9th August 2010, 21:30

Martin O'Neill has resigned as Aston Villa manager with immediate effect.

Kevin MacDonald has been appointed caretaker boss while no reason has been given for O'Neill's decision to leave after four years in the job.

MacDonald will prepare the side for their Premier League opener against West Ham on Saturday. Full story here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/aston_villa/8898993.stm)

I did not see this one coming. It hadn't been a great pre-season for the Villains (especially with the Milner saga) but this is out of the blue :bored:

Devrim

10th August 2010, 07:42

I think one of those is that the island lives for football(and talking about that 50% of the population is an OMONOIA fan:cool:)

It sounds a bit sad really.

Devrim

10th August 2010, 14:55

sad?why? for the others it is for sure:D

Devrim

10th August 2010, 15:31

sad?why? for the others it is for sure:D

It is a bit like going to London and seeing kids in Manchester United shirts, or going to Nicosia, and seeing kids in Fener shirts.

Ultimately it leads to a concentration of capital and leagues being monopolised by a few big clubs.

Looking at Cyprus though Omonia hasn't been even good enough to manage to do this as despite having the biggest support on the island of up to half the population, they have only managed four titles in the last two decades, which is less than APOEL, and Anorthosis Famagusta, a pretty poor showing really.

Despite the fact that Omonia don't seem able to capitalise on their huge support, I still think it is a bit sad, and very boring with 50% of a country supporting one team.

Devrim

11th August 2010, 00:50

We indeed had our worst time past decades, but still we are the most succeed team, plus for the champions there are lots of backstage things were going on, which put us away from championships intentionally, the fact that all the other big teams are right-wing nationalists, and created one united unit against us, didnt help...However we had more than just 4 titles, 4 were only the championships.
Since the day we entered the cyprus football association we wont 20 championships, while everyone else has 22, plus with the previous backstage things, things would be a lot better. The other 2 you mentioned, apoerl got most of their championships before OMONOIA was created, anorthosis has only 13, and they both got 7 championships and the difference aint that big for a team that got past its worst period, and with a lost of backstage shit going on, that refuted us at least couple more titles, and even after we were created they didnt allowed us to play to the cfa cause we were "evil communists", and while their previous championships count, what we got donts.

You think its boring cause you didnt lived it, its cool really:cool:

Devrim

11th August 2010, 04:20

We indeed had our worst time past decades, but still we are the most succeed team,

You sound like a Liverpool fan going on about how they are the most successful English club, which is true historically, but doesn't change the fact that they have been rubbish for years.

Obviously it is not as bad a case as Liverpool as you won the title last year, but basically over the last two decades, you have been the third most successful club in the league.

How old are you Fuserg? Can you remember much beyond that?

However we had more than just 4 titles, 4 were only the championships.

Title is generally used to mean championship in English football parlance.

You think its boring cause you didnt lived it, its cool really:cool:

Rather you than me.

Devrim

11th August 2010, 21:48

Our case is far from liverpools, we had 4 championships, instead of the 7 of the others, when as i said, there could be at the very least couple more, if some people "allowed" us:rolleyes: and obviously less for the others.In titles in general we are second in this bad time for us, not 3rd.
Beside that, the other 2 teams, when they werent good, they were shit, 7 places, not going in europe, while we were on top 4 continually and never got under that.The years without europe were rarely coming.The only thing that i cant disagree for those teams, is that they had better europe results, they both got in c.l groups, but still threw all this years i have been there, it havent passed one year when someone could say that we werent there fighting for the championship.
I was born in this bad time for my team, cant remember the old ones(obviously) but that pays no matter in the fact that i saw tapes, i have my dad, family etc who were there telling me stories of those times, read things, have books etc etc.I may not was born, but that dont means i dont know what happened.

Hoggy_RS

12th August 2010, 12:11

Andropov

12th August 2010, 21:01

Ultimately it leads to a concentration of capital and leagues being monopolised by a few big clubs.
Spot on Dev.
If we follow the logical conclusion of say the average Irish joe who supports Liverpool, Merchandise Mc United, Arsenal or Chelski then there would be no premier league as such, merely 3 or 4 mega corporations.
Then eventually one of those say 4 teams would have less capital and eventually fall away and those fans would eventually drift to the bigger clubs and this process will continue until you only have one team left.
What you have basically is a far more blatant and accentuated version of the accumulation of capital only in a sporting sphere.

Devrim

12th August 2010, 21:32

Andropov

13th August 2010, 19:40

Yes, Scotland is obviously even worse, but even in countries like Spain only three clubs have won the title in the last decade. If you look at a country like Turkey, where only five clubs have ever won it, interestingly enough one of them for the first time last year, the game is completely dominated by the three Istanbul clubs.
All true.

As you say though it can't be followed to its logical conclusion because teams can't exist without a league to play in.

But this is where it gets interesting Dev.
If this continues to happen with the accumulation of Capital and thus success and greater fan bases etc and you eventually have teams in their respective countrys completely dominating National Leagues it could eventually bring the destruction of the National League format.
What you could possibly see is a new format based around these mega corporations from their respective Leagues, basically globalised football.
What we see with the European Cup and Libertadores Cup will just be accentuated whereby these European or South American competitions could possibly be the new bread and butter for these clubs, as in the new domestic league but on a far larger non-national scale.
There is actually already an organisation whereby the top clubs in europe are given entry based on their relative wealth and power but the name of it escapes me at the moment, this indeed could be the embryo of the organisation that achieves that.

Wanted Man

13th August 2010, 21:42

Interesting discussion here, for sure. From my point of view, there is one good thing about the fact that the Dutch league is growing weaker and weaker compared to the "big countries": it also means a stronger equalisation between the different teams. The dominance of the top 3 has been broken in two consecutive seasons, and I can't say that's entirely a bad thing. There are still a few set top clubs, but below that, there's everything to play for, and every once in a while, "sub-top" clubs break through, while mid-table clubs enter the sub-top.

Of course, the top clubs react by using their considerable financial positions to try and buy success (PSV and Ajax have invested considerably), but this will end eventually. Our FA is quite strict regarding financial matters, and Feyenoord is the first top club that is now basically forced to bring in more youth and loan players, and free agents. They are simply not allowed to continuously make more debts, and mask their horrible situation by buying loads of players. Also interesting is that a rich club like Ajax have been consistently outsmarted by PSV over the last decade, and now they are in financial problems themselves due to all the transfer flops they've made.

Anyway, besides trying to sing the praises of our own league, it's a very interesting thing to discuss. What Andropov says about globalised football is definitely a possibility. There have been proposals about a Belgian-Dutch league of only their best clubs, about an "Atlantic league" of all the top clubs of Western Europe, and there are some who think that there should be even more preliminary stages and seeding for both international and European club competitions to push the biggest teams into the final stages quickly. That would be a shame, in my opinion.

Devrim

14th August 2010, 13:45

There is actually already an organisation whereby the top clubs in europe are given entry based on their relative wealth and power but the name of it escapes me at the moment, this indeed could be the embryo of the organisation that achieves that.

There used to be an organisation called G14 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-14) ,which actually ended up having 18 members. The members were:

Founding members, 2000

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Flag_of_Spain.svg/22px-Flag_of_Spain.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain) Barcelona (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Barcelona) (Spain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain))
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Flag_of_Spain.svg/22px-Flag_of_Spain.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain) Real Madrid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Madrid_C.F.) (Spain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain))
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/22px-Flag_of_England.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England) Liverpool (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_F.C.) (England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England))
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/22px-Flag_of_England.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England) Manchester United (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_United_F.C.) (England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England))
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Flag_of_Italy.svg/22px-Flag_of_Italy.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy) Juventus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juventus_F.C.) (Italy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy))
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Flag_of_Italy.svg/22px-Flag_of_Italy.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy) Milan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.C._Milan) (Italy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy))
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Flag_of_Italy.svg/22px-Flag_of_Italy.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy) Internazionale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internazionale) (Italy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy))
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Flag_of_France.svg/22px-Flag_of_France.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France) Marseille (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympique_de_Marseille) (France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France))
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Flag_of_France.svg/22px-Flag_of_France.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France) Paris Saint-Germain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Saint-Germain_F.C.) (France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France))
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Flag_of_Germany.svg/22px-Flag_of_Germany.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany) Bayern Munich (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Bayern_Munich) (Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany))
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Flag_of_Germany.svg/22px-Flag_of_Germany.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany) Borussia Dortmund (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borussia_Dortmund) (Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany))
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Flag_of_the_Netherlands.svg/22px-Flag_of_the_Netherlands.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands) Ajax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFC_Ajax) (Netherlands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands))
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Flag_of_the_Netherlands.svg/22px-Flag_of_the_Netherlands.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands) PSV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSV_Eindhoven) (Netherlands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands))
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Flag_of_Portugal.svg/22px-Flag_of_Portugal.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal) Porto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.C._Porto) (Portugal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal))

New members, 2002

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/22px-Flag_of_England.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England) Arsenal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenal_F.C.) (England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England))
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Flag_of_France.svg/22px-Flag_of_France.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France) Lyon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympique_Lyonnais) (France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France))
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Flag_of_Germany.svg/22px-Flag_of_Germany.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany) Bayer Leverkusen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_04_Leverkusen) (Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany))
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Flag_of_Spain.svg/22px-Flag_of_Spain.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain) Valencia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valencia_CF) (Spain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain))

The first thing that strikes you about this list is that it is restricted to seven countries, the big five European countries and Holland and Portugal.

I think that one of the things about the whole idea of a European League is who would miss out. If you imagine it having 16 or 18 teams there would be a lot of people disappointed. How many English clubs for example, could you fit in an 18 team league? I would say that there are probably five with serious aspirations for it. If you took four English teams, four from Spain, four from Italy, and four from Germany, you would be very rapidly running out of space.

A European League would be constructed on money and not on any footballing criteria. While not being up there in footballing terms, you would certainly want one representative from Russia, and Turkey. Russia because even though it is poor, there is money in the football, and it is just such a vast market. Turkey is football mad, and the third biggest country, and therefore market, in UEFA. Surely one team representing the, immensely nationalist country, would be profitable...

We are already up to 18 without even considering the French, Dutch, or Portuguese, let alone anybody else.

My point here is not idle speculation, but just illustrating the point that some very big names would miss out.

The other point would be what would happen to the rest of football. If these clubs broke away what would be to stop the likes of Rangers and Celtic, who to be realistic don't have a hope in hell of being in any European Super League from setting up leagues with other medium sized clubs not included.

Anyway, it has been replaced by an organisation called the European Club Association which represents 191 clubs, made up of 102 ordinary members and 89 associated members, with at least one from each of the 53 national associations. This in my opinion is a step back from moves towards a super league.

Devrim

Devrim

14th August 2010, 13:55

Wanted Man

15th August 2010, 23:05

Well, the English Premier League has kicked off, except for Man United and Newcastle. Good stuff from Blackpool. Also, we saw some good goalkeeping at "Joe Hart Lane". :D None of that from Reina at Anfield though.

Still though, what do people expect from Man City? Will these big signings gel in the end, or will it be yet another disappointing season, with a failure to break through decisively?

bricolage

16th August 2010, 00:36

Mancini has come out and said it will take three weeks or so until they start playing like a top team and I suppose that makes sense. Based on the Tottenham game, especially the first half, they are not title contenders but maybe things will change.
I think next season, especially as the Man United and Chelsea teams get even older, they will be more serious challengers, but then so will Liverpool, Tottenham, Arsenal. I'm pretty bad at predictions though.

Devrim

16th August 2010, 08:06

Good stuff from Blackpool.

Yes, it would be hard, not to feel happy for them unless you come from Wigan.

Still though, what do people expect from Man City? Will these big signings gel in the end, or will it be yet another disappointing season, with a failure to break through decisively?

I expect third or fourth, which I think would be a success for them.

Devrim

Devrim

16th August 2010, 08:07

Mancini has come out and said it will take three weeks or so until they start playing like a top team and I suppose that makes sense. Based on the Tottenham game, especially the first half, they are not title contenders but maybe things will change.

I think to be Champions, you don't really have that three weeks (10% of the season) to get it working.

I think next season, especially as the Man United and Chelsea teams get even older, they will be more serious challengers, but then so will Liverpool, Tottenham, Arsenal. I'm pretty bad at predictions though.

I don't think the United team is old. There are three or four old players, Van der Saar, Giggs, Scholes, and Neville, though he is no longer really first team material. They need replacing, which will be difficult, but the rest is really quite young.

Oh and Ferdinand!

Devrim

bricolage

16th August 2010, 23:20

I think to be Champions, you don't really have that three weeks (10% of the season) to get it working.
Yeah that is true but I think he was more saying in three weeks they will playing as good as any other team, not that that will necessarily win them the league. Considering the teams they play in that time are Tottenham (already got a draw), Liverpool, Sunderland and Blackburn even if they aren't playing like champions Liverpool is the only game that should trouble them. Not that I think Man City will win the league though but I don't think the three week thing is as bad as it first seems.

I don't think the United team is old. There are three or four old players, Van der Saar, Giggs, Scholes, and Neville, though he is no longer really first team material. They need replacing, which will be difficult, but the rest is really quite young.

Oh and Ferdinand!

Other players like Evra, Vidic, O’Shea, Park, Berbatov are all pushing 30. Not as old as the ones you mention but not exactly young.

Devrim

18th August 2010, 09:55

Other players like Evra, Vidic, O’Shea, Park, Berbatov are all pushing 30. Not as old as the ones you mention but not exactly young.

I am not sure how old you are but I think that 'pushing 30' is actually the peak for professional footballers.

Devrim

ComradeOm

18th August 2010, 10:34

I am not sure how old you are but I think that 'pushing 30' is actually the peak for professional footballersArguably not (http://vieiraswearyone.blogspot.com/). A glance at that Utd squad tends to confirm it. How many of those players can really be said to be at their peak last season?

Devrim

18th August 2010, 10:44

Arguably not (http://vieiraswearyone.blogspot.com/). A glance at that Utd squad tends to confirm it. How many of those players can really be said to be at their peak last season?

Interesting, it is quite a widely held belief as the article points out "[t]he belief that players peak at 28/29 still seems to hold sway but surely this is no longer true in the pace heavy modern game."

I think that Evra, Park, Carrick, Vidic when fit, and O'Shea when called upon, all played pretty well last year.

Devrim

ComradeOm

18th August 2010, 11:02

Interesting, it is quite a widely held belief as the article points out "[t]he belief that players peak at 28/29 still seems to hold sway but surely this is no longer true in the pace heavy modern game."It's certainly conventional wisdom, no doubt about that. And until a season or two ago I would have agreed with it. Now I think the game is changing and what held true in the 1990s doesn't necessarily hold true today

I think that Evra, Park, Carrick, Vidic when fit, and O'Shea when called upon, all played pretty well last yearReally? I think Utd were lucky to be in the title race last season and that was primarily down to Rooney's form. None of the above (except for Carrick who was very poor) had a particularly bad season but they weren't stellar either. Now, you'd expect that of Park and O'Shea who, let's be honest here, are essentially squad players but I felt that both Evra and Vidic were at best average by their standards. The musical chairs in the Utd defence didn't help but neither of them were near their best, from, say, the season or two before

bricolage

18th August 2010, 12:15

I am not sure how old you are but I think that 'pushing 30' is actually the peak for professional footballers.

Devrim
Do you think? Maybe for some defenders and Evra did still look quite good the other day but I think in todays game once you get to 29/30 you are on the way down. Of course this is a mass generalisation but it holds in a lot of cases.

bricolage

18th August 2010, 12:30

Although I am currently getting very excited about the possibility of Palace signing Edgar Davids... all 37 years of him!

Devrim

18th August 2010, 12:53

It's certainly conventional wisdom, no doubt about that. And until a season or two ago I would have agreed with it. Now I think the game is changing and what held true in the 1990s doesn't necessarily hold true today

Really? I think Utd were lucky to be in the title race last season and that was primarily down to Rooney's form. None of the above (except for Carrick who was very poor) had a particularly bad season but they weren't stellar either. Now, you'd expect that of Park and O'Shea who, let's be honest here, are essentially squad players but I felt that both Evra and Vidic were at best average by their standards. The musical chairs in the Utd defence didn't help but neither of them were near their best, from, say, the season or two before

On Manchester United, and just to make it clear from the start, I was a United season ticket holder in the 70s and 80s, which may explain any bias.

Really? I think Utd were lucky to be in the title race last season and that was primarily down to Rooney's form.

I don't think that you are 'lucky' over the whole of a league season. Teams get pretty much what they deserve. United kept with Chelsea till the last day, and if they hadn't had a period with really bad injuries to the defence, or Rooney's injury, could have won it. That said, you have to go back to 2003 to see it won on so few points. If Chelsea had dominated United wouldn't have been in the race, but they didn't.

that was primarily down to Rooney's form.

Rooney played well. That is undeniable, and was a big part of United's season. One man does not a team make though, and I think we can compare Rooney's performance for United surrounded by quality players to his lack of performance when surrounded by the donkey's he plays with on the England team.

None of the above (except for Carrick who was very poor) had a particularly bad season but they weren't stellar either. Now, you'd expect that of Park and O'Shea who, let's be honest here, are essentially squad players but I felt that both Evra and Vidic were at best average by their standards.

On Park and O'Shea, I think you are right. They are squad players, and in my opinion pretty reliable ones. I don't think that Carrick was so bad, and I am really surprised by what you said about Evra. In my opinion he had a great season. I think he won the United Supporters player of the year, but as I couldn't find that with a quick search, I am going to quote Dennis ırwin instead:

"Patrice is the number one," said Irwin.
"Ashley Cole has improved an awful lot this season. But Patrice has come on a lot too and this year has been his best."
In fact, so effective has Evra been, during a period when he was the only regular member of United's back four to remain injury-free, Irwin feels he edges Wayne Rooney as United's player of the season.
The Irishman admits the view is shaped partly by solidarity amongst the full-back fraternity.
But Irwin does feel Evra's performances have been worthy of the highest praise.
"Wayne Rooney has been tremendous, particularly over the past three months," said Irwin.
"But Patrice Evra has been every bit as good. He has been very consistent at a really high level.
"Regardless of what Wayne has done, Patrice has been our player of the season. Unfortunately for full-backs, centre-forwards get all the glory because they score goals."

Devrim

ComradeOm

18th August 2010, 13:27

On Manchester United, and just to make it clear from the start, I was a United season ticket holder in the 70s and 80s, which may explain any biasWhat is football if not an excuse to take irrational likes/dislikes to complete strangers and to pontificate at length about why you/I know better than everyone else? :lol:

I don't think that you are 'lucky' over the whole of a league season. Teams get pretty much what they deserveArsenal were still in the race until the last few weeks ;)

Rooney played well. That is undeniable, and was a big part of United's season. One man does not a team make though, and I think we can compare Rooney's performance for United surrounded by quality players to his lack of performance when surrounded by the donkey's he plays with on the England teamI would have agreed with this before last season. For opposite reasons of course - I did not see Utd getting any number of goals without Ronaldo or Tevez. But Rooney steeped up and had a fantastic season. He led from the front and in my opinion compensated for what was an average team behind (and beside) him. That and the sheer momentum of winning - in any sport there is no substitute for the simple champion mindset that comes with a tradition of winning medals

Look at the midfield - Fletcher (underrated but still not exactly a creative force), Carrick (I say again - poor season. No surprise that he didn't get on in S Africa), Anderson (progress stalled entirely), Nani (improved), Valencia (does the simple stuff but does it well). Leaving aside the pensioners for a minute, this is not a championship winning team. Certainly it compares poorly to almost every other team Ferguson has forged since the early 90s. Put simply - Man Utd should not have to be relying on 36 yo Paul Scholes to act as the creative fulcrum of the team

As you say, if Chelsea had been better (ie, if it hadn't taken Ancelotti 3+ months to rediscover Hiddink's winning formula) Utd would have been out of the race long before the season's end. The above players are going to have to improve a lot to be competitive this season

I am really surprised by what you said about Evra. In my opinion he had a great season. I think he won the United Supporters player of the year, but as I couldn't find that with a quick search, I am going to quote Dennis ırwin instead:Denis Irwin is a childhood hero of mine and I love him to bits. But I'm not going to consider him an impartial source on Utd defenders ;)

There's plenty of reasons to like Evra (unless you're French) and I'm not saying that he had a bad season. He was that rare breed of Utd defender - consistently fit and reliable at the back. But I don't think he was as good as in previous seasons (lost a bit of pace perhaps?) and I definitely don't think he was the best full back in the league. I'll have to disagree with Denis because Ashley Cole (who, like most Chelsea players, is a prick) was by far and away the best player in that position last season. Even Gareth Bale impressed me more than Evra (although I have been a fan of him for a long time)

Wanted Man

18th August 2010, 14:29

Although I am currently getting very excited about the possibility of Palace signing Edgar Davids... all 37 years of him!

They are signing the pitbull? That's surprising. I knew that he had been looking to return to professional football ever since the end of his Ajax contract in 2008, but I didn't expect him to find a club at this stage. I wonder how it will work out. I thought Davids wasn't that good in his final Ajax period, but that was also because he was set back by a severe injury (he broke his leg at the beginning of his last season). Since he's apparently going to get paid for each game he plays, at least it won't be a bad deal if he fails.

Of course, he's still a player with a massive reputation, and one of my all-time favourites, but I don't know how much of that is left at 37. Do players at that age regularly do well in the Championship?

18th August 2010, 14:45

http://yepyep.gibbs12.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/edgar_davids_glasses.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o202/Mrs_S_Brown/Smiley2-BowingForward.gif

one of my favorite players EVER.This guy deserved more!!!

Wanted Man

18th August 2010, 14:59

bricolage

18th August 2010, 15:06

Of course, he's still a player with a massive reputation, and one of my all-time favourites, but I don't know how much of that is left at 37. Do players at that age regularly do well in the Championship?
Not regularly no but then I think its worth remembering the quality of football in the Championship is a far cry from that of the Premier League, I can imagine a player like Davids would be able to do well in such a division and the very least would serve as a good mentor to a lot of a younger players.
That being said it is all just speculation at the moment; http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-sport/football/article-23868445-edgar-davids-coup-is-far-from-finalised-says-palace-boss.do

18th August 2010, 16:19

How much more? I think he's had a fantastic career already, including European titles at a very young age, success in Italy and being a central part of a great generation of Netherlands players in the 1998 World Cup and Euro 2000.

A lot people seem to forget him, and i dont think he will remain in the "hall of fame" like players we get to remember this days(meaning players of the past generation) for the next generations, and thats unfair.Im not talking about Jeventus fans, and Dutches etc, but people who werent seen him in their teams.I consider him as one of the best.

Devrim

18th August 2010, 22:30

Arsenal were still in the race until the last few weeks ;)

Yes, a weak championship all round as we have agreed. Teams often fall away at the end though. I never thought Arsenal had what it takes, and still don't this season.

I would have agreed with this before last season. For opposite reasons of course - I did not see Utd getting any number of goals without Ronaldo or Tevez. But Rooney steeped up and had a fantastic season. He led from the front and in my opinion compensated for what was an average team behind (and beside) him. That and the sheer momentum of winning - in any sport there is no substitute for the simple champion mindset that comes with a tradition of winning medals

Yes, I'd agree with this too, but it was an average, maybe even poor Manchester United team, which is still a class or four above England.

Look at the midfield - Fletcher (underrated but still not exactly a creative force), Carrick (I say again - poor season. No surprise that he didn't get on in S Africa), Anderson (progress stalled entirely), Nani (improved), Valencia (does the simple stuff but does it well). Leaving aside the pensioners for a minute, this is not a championship winning team. Certainly it compares poorly to almost every other team Ferguson has forged since the early 90s. Put simply - Man Utd should not have to be relying on 36 yo Paul Scholes to act as the creative fulcrum of the team

I agree with the basic point, and they wouldn't have still been there on the last day if any other team had been putting the points on the board.

To look at your points in detail:

Fletcher (underrated but still not exactly a creative force)

I see what you mean, but in my opinion a very, very important player. The so called 'holding midfielder' is a crucial role in the modern EPL. Fletcher plays it well. When you have somebody who can do that, and is also a creative force, you have a world class player, which Fletcher, despite his competence, isn't.

Carrick (I say again - poor season. No surprise that he didn't get on in S Africa)

I don't know. Did Heskey have a good season? Yet he got on. I think that Capello's selection and tactics were pretty awful all round, not to mention his man management.

Anderson (progress stalled entirely)

Yeah, I see your point.

[Nani (improved)/QUOTE]

I concur.

[QUOTE]Valencia (does the simple stuff but does it well)

Certainly a good season for him.

The above players are going to have to improve a lot to be competitive this season

Will United be competitive this season? I'd like to think so, but probably what I most take heart from is the opposition. Really there is only Chelsea, who as was said at the start are also an ageing side, more so than United. Is it a good United team? Well the majority of them are a team that just won three back-to back titles. I don't think they can be that bad, but having said that it is not a great United team either.

Denis Irwin is a childhood hero of mine and I love him to bits. But I'm not going to consider him an impartial source on Utd defenders ;)

Fair point, but as I said I think Evra was the United supporters club player of the year too, so some people must have disagreed with you.

There's plenty of reasons to like Evra (unless you're French) and I'm not saying that he had a bad season.

No, you said 'average'.

But I don't think he was as good as in previous seasons (lost a bit of pace perhaps?)

Which would fit in with your initial idea of late twenties no longer being the peak.

Devrim

Devrim

18th August 2010, 22:35

Oh, one more point:

who, like most Chelsea players, is a prick

Most footballers come across as 'pricks'. It is not surprising really when you consider there circumstances. They probably come across worse in the media that in real life though.

Of the ones I have met personally, Kevin Moran was a genuinely nice guy.

Of the current United crop, Giggs and Neville come across in the media as decent people, and I suspect Paul Scholes might be, mostly from his complete avoidence of it.

Devrim

ComradeOm

20th August 2010, 12:23

I never thought Arsenal had what it takes, and still don't this seasonNasri is out for another month :mad:

I thought that Arsenal made progress (of a sort) last season but, yeah, I wouldn't be putting any money on them this year. If they can just click though...

Most footballers come across as 'pricks'. It is not surprising really when you consider there circumstances. They probably come across worse in the media that in real life though.True story: A lad I know was at a wedding in Galway a few years ago and Gavin McCann (of Bolton fame) happened to be at some function in the same hotel that the reception was at. So Gary wanders into the wedding lounge and gets recognised by a few lads. He particularly endears himself to the crowd (and it was big crowd - a few hundred people) by ordering a round of drinks for everyone... before slipping out just before it was time to pay for the round. The poor groom had to cough up the cash instead :lol:

That said, I briefly met Packie Bonner once and he seemed pretty decent

Of the ones I have met personally, Kevin Moran was a genuinely nice guy.That's his GAA roots :cool:

20th August 2010, 15:58

Darkest day most probably in OMONOIAs history yesterday.It had nothing to do with the defeat, we lost 0-1, but we dominated them, they had 1-2 good chances, but we missed like 4-5 opportunities who were almost sure goal... plus stupid referee, didnt gave us 2 penaltys, stopped us when we were going 2 on 1 with the keeper, to give the players a time-out to drink water:rolleyes: and the linesman gaved us 5 offsides, were 4 werent...In any way, i dont give a fuck about that, we played good football, its better than playing shitand get a draw, so im happy with my team. The black day was though what happened bettween us, im not going to expand a lot, im just saying it cause i know some people might care on whats going on, and we were basically fighting each other on our own stadium... over the stupidity of the few dozens, few thousands were fighting and kicking each other...

Wanted Man

20th August 2010, 21:12

Sucks to hear about that. How did that happen? I hope they'll be able to pick themselves up after that.

Anyway, some transfer rumours came in: Kuyt to Inter and Van der Vaart to Man Utd. Now, I don't like the idea of Kuyt going to Italy, but I'd definitely like to see VdV in England. I don't know how much substance there is to the rumour, though. Sir Alex previously strongly dismissed any speculation linking him to Wesley Sneijder, a similar player. Could Man Utd use a player like that, or will they be content with their midfield at the moment?

RotStern

20th August 2010, 21:34

I don't like the team but I love the players, that was an amazing goal by Schweinsteiger and Ribery. I'm pretty pissed off that Ozil is leaving Germany though. The bastard better come back!:mad:

ComradeOm

21st August 2010, 11:10

Now, I don't like the idea of Kuyt going to Italy, but I'd definitely like to see VdV in England. I don't know how much substance there is to the rumour, though. Sir Alex previously strongly dismissed any speculation linking him to Wesley Sneijder, a similar player. Could Man Utd use a player like that, or will they be content with their midfield at the moment?From yesterday's Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/aug/20/football-transfer-rumours-manchester-united):

"Having been told that his handsome visage doesn't feature on José Mourinho's blueprint for success at Real Madrid, Dutch midfielder Rafael van der Vaart has dropped a sledgehammer subtle hint about where he'd like to go next. "I could never play for another club in Spain and the truth is that if you are leaving Real Madrid, there is only one club you can join that is not a step down – and that's Manchester United," he said, presumably after studying the Chelsea, Inter and Manchester City's squad lists and realising there was no obviously him-shaped holes in their already ridiculously overstaffed midfields" :lol:

I'm pretty pissed off that Ozil is leaving Germany thoughI hate seeing young players go to Real. Its like the graveyard of talent

Sam_b

22nd August 2010, 00:52

Wonderful start for the Dons this year, we haven't won our first two since 1998/99 if I remember correctly. Considering we have a whopping seven new signings it's still going to be tough over the next few weeks as the team gels, but for right now I'm a very happy man. Paul Hartley signing for us is huge, his experience and leadership will be valuable.

Roll on next week :) MON THE RED ARMY

Wanted Man

25th August 2010, 22:01

Well, it's finally there. For the first time in quite a few years, Ajax have qualified for the Champions League, after beating Dinamo Kiev! This is extremely important, both financially and in terms of prestige. Even if they go out in the group phase, seeing Ajax in the CL again is an exciting prospect.

26th August 2010, 09:28

Bandito

26th August 2010, 19:43

Fucking Partizan Belgrade qualified for Champions League by beating Anderlecht.
I hope these fuckers get their nets full.

26th August 2010, 20:03

fucking damn.lost from one player alone.... unlucky, really unlucky, and the great abilities of one player.

Tifosi

26th August 2010, 21:40

Celtic just got humiliated by Utrecht, 4-0 at their place. This all comes after a really positive 2-0 home win against them. We are shit these days:crying:

Wanted Man

27th August 2010, 09:53

Wow. I was drunk in a room without a TV last night, so I wasn't able to make any drunken demands to watch football games (they are usually so incessant that they succeed). It's a great achievement by Utrecht, though. It's a big surprise, but it also shows that Celtic aren't what they used to be. I'd say they are very tough in the atmosphere of their own stadium, but away, anything can happen, and Utrecht showed this last night.

PSV and AZ are also through, while Feyenoord lost at AA Gent. In the CL, Ajax will have to play Real Madrid, Milan, and Auxerre. FC Twente will play Inter, Werder Bremen and Tottenham. I expect quick eliminations for both of these sides, but it would be nice if they could somehow grab that third spot and get "relegated" to the EL.

3rd September 2010, 23:20

portugal- cyprus 4-4 :rolleyes:
and while it might say something positive for cyprus, for me it says more about how negative is portugal without cristiano, and they were expecting from him to do everything in the WC on his own...

Wanted Man

4th September 2010, 14:56

Let's all laugh at Portugal and France!

7th September 2010, 12:27

its my idea, or is gerrard the favourite player of kids?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX4Q04SUu-I

:lol::lol::laugh::laugh:

8th September 2010, 00:06

Let's all laugh at Portugal and France!

Lets put aside france this time, and lets have a BIG laugh on portugal... WTF?Lose this time?Oh god, the way this idiots are going, cyprus will pass:mad:

durhamleft

10th September 2010, 23:29

SAFC vs WIGAN tomorrow

haway the lads

Wanted Man

14th September 2010, 21:54

15th September 2010, 00:36

Surprising result: FC Twente vs Inter Milan ended up 2-2. Twente were absolutely amazing in the first half, but they struggled for most of the second. Still, it's a great achievement for Twente.

Most attention here will probably be on stuff like Spurs' first appearance, Valencia's injury, etc.

Yep, i think they will start remembering murinho soon:lol:I didnt see the game. i prefered man utd-rangers, i dont know why:p just happened, i would prefer to see barcelona, but it wasnt "available".
Now you said valencias injury.I mean fucking OUCH:scared: too bad for the guy, i had some ankle injuries, but thankfully nothing like that, and i know how hard it is to come back from it...

On barcelona-panathinaikos now, damn greeks, scored a goal, and thought they could play barca equally, but barca wasnt prepared for a second upset, after hercules shit.They dominated them.3rd goal(iirc) = gold
Fast passes, run to the empty space to get the ball, and good shoot, thats football:thumbup1:

Wanted Man

15th September 2010, 22:26

Real Madrid vs Ajax was not quite as interesting. Real were vastly superior, and it's actually pretty amazing that the match didn't end up in a 5-0 humiliation. Madrid must have had at least 30 shots. Without Real Madrid's profligacy and Stekelenburg's amazing goalkeeping, it would have been very painful indeed.

Some past glory, anyway:

cJ01wkgY9AY

15th September 2010, 22:58

Missed it:(
It was real anw wm, i dont think you were hoping for much anw, its the rest of the teams you need to target to get a chance of qualifying.;) Good luck in any way:)

Wanted Man

15th September 2010, 23:07

Well, it's the chance of upsets that makes these CL groups interesting in the first place. Normally, neither Twente nor Ajax have a chance to progress into the next round. But strange things can happen, especially in those home matches. Of course, Ajax were always going to lose to Real, but one always hopes for them to put up a fight. Still, it's not the same team without Suarez.

16th September 2010, 22:26

Forza AEKara oeoeoe:D:thumbup1: 3-1 against hadjuk for AEK, great match, second half we destroyed them(and we lost a penalty and few excellent chances)
athletico lost to aris:( juve draw(i saw the 0-2 and was like, wtf is juve up to anymore...) and few other results i cant remember :p
but anw, Forza AEKara oeoeoe

Red Poplar

18th September 2010, 11:49

As a fan of Hajduk Split, the match wasn't so "great" for me... :)
Our goalkeeper is the main problem, he saved the penalty, but clumsily conceded a goal later. If it wasn't for our crappy defence, we would have got a draw at least.

Meanwhile, Liverpool capped a nice 4-1 victory over Steaua, i hope they'll finally win something this year.

28th September 2010, 21:00

WM, any update on the situation with the banners, the flares etc?Was it a protest for expensive tickets?Was it made just from the ultras?

Wanted Man

28th September 2010, 23:24

Sorry, what banners and flares? I unfortunately missed tonight's match, which apparently went pretty well for Ajax. At this time of the year, the hundreds of different student associations all elect their new boards for the next year, and all of them organise parties with free beer, so I had no choice but to attend. :p

I do know that Ajax fans are a bit pissed off about the rather high price for CL tickets. The club is charging exorbitant amounts, whereas FC Twente, for instance, are "rewarding" their fans by offering a "passepartout" (ticket for all 3 home games) for a reasonable price. I don't know if this has led to any actions by Ajax fans. Can't blame them if it has, though.

Anyway, the rest of the week should be good: Spurs vs FC Twente, FC Utrecht vs Liverpool. Not exactly top European fixtures, but I can imagine that these two clubs, normally completely unrated on a European level, will spring a few surprises for their English opponents. ;)

Tifosi

1st October 2010, 13:42

St Pauli vs Hamburg

Score 1-1

Riots before game, pictures here (http://z6.invisionfree.com/UltrasTifosi/index.php?showtopic=15006)

praxis1966

2nd October 2010, 22:21

Meanwhile, Liverpool capped a nice 4-1 victory over Steaua, i hope they'll finally win something this year.

The only thing Liverpool are going to win this season is relegation if Torres doesn't get his head out of his ass. Of course, the old rumor that he might be going to City in the January window resurfaced again this week. If there's any truth to it, Torres's form might not matter one way or the other to 'Pool supporters.

Meanwhile, Everton finally got their first win of the season against a rather lackluster Birmingham side. As happy as I am with the three points, I gotta say it's about fuckin' time.

Devrim

2nd October 2010, 23:33

The only thing Liverpool are going to win this season is relegation if Torres doesn't get his head out of his ass. Of course, the old rumor that he might be going to City in the January window resurfaced again this week. If there's any truth to it, Torres's form might not matter one way or the other to 'Pool supporters.

I don't think that it is quite that bad. As poor as they are I doubt they will go down. That said I am enjoying the demise of Liverpool immensely.

Devrim

3rd October 2010, 00:35

Wanted Man

3rd October 2010, 00:42

It's nice to see Van der Vaart doing well in England. I'm wondering though, to what extent is an £8m player a "bargain" in the Premier League? It sounds like a considerable sum to me, but then again, clubs often spend double that amount on complete flops. So maybe he is indeed a bargain. In any case, it's an arrangement that works out well for both parties. It's a great combination, also for VdV who really needed it to work out well after Real Madrid. Spurs are the best thing to happen to him since Hamburg.

Rafa hasn't had the greatest time, both in Real and in the national team, but it's great to see that he hasn't somehow suddenly lost his touch. It's nice to see he still has a good scoring ability. And of course, someone with 85 caps can't be a shit player. I think he's still a quality player, and if he keeps getting lots of playing time and goals, there will be some tough decisions for Van Marwijk.

Wanted Man

3rd October 2010, 00:50

I saw the banners myself, not the flares(i was watching the other game), i was asked about the flares, and came here to ask you which i guess had the answer:p but yeah flares was most probably a protest for that as i see it(not knowing it, at all) and they were trying to push a message, and really with the high fine the club gets, i think they will think about it more the next time puting the prices high;)

I read about it later on. It was indeed an action related to the ridiculous CL ticket prices. Fanatic supporters kept their stands empty for the first 5 minutes, and then they entered with banners and fireworks. Good initiative IMO, but apparently a small minority of idiots threw fireworks into the stands below them. This could have led to people getting seriously wounded. That's what I gathered from it, anyway.

Wanted Man

3rd October 2010, 19:30

Apparently, Nigel de Jong has yet again managed to break another player's leg. I don't know about the intent, but this wouldn't be the first time. The man's thuggish play is becoming increasingly embarrassing.

Bandito

3rd October 2010, 23:35

De Jong's tackle is for a ban from football for a couple of years.

Apparently, for the referee, it wasn't even a penalty kick.

I respect thugish players, likes of Roy Keane, Gattusso, Davids, Fernando Couto, Mihajlovic, Vieira and others, but this is just pure bullying and total disregard for other player's career. The guy is apparently just an obvious asshole, not a rough player like the ones stated above.

Wanted Man

4th October 2010, 00:14

Yeah, sometimes people in the Netherlands draw a comparison between Davids and De Jong. I think that's bullshit. Davids was a hard man, definitely, but his play was a joy to behold in general as well. He was truly the engine of the team. I won't say that Davids or the others you mentioned have never been malicious, have never gone too far, but I also don't think they entered every match with the intent to cause serious injuries (Keane vs Håland is particularly notable, though). They were hard, but they did not give the impression that they were simply on the pitch to break the leg of the danger man as quickly as possible.

De Jong has displayed the kind of Davids potential on occasion, but most of the time, he's just a reckless player who's always liable to make some kind of season- or career-ending challenge. Even in cases where he goes for the ball, he still tends to go in two-footed, maliciously hurting the opposite player with the other foot.

Some people say it's OK with arguments like the Davids comparison (or by saying that we also played hard against Brazil in 1974). It's not okay; it's an embarrassment. Van Marwijk isn't the kind of manager to bow to media pressure easily, but at some point there are just so many players on stretchers with oxygen masks due to De Jong that you can't ignore it any longer (he also did something like this against Stuart Holden in a goddamn friendly against the US in March). Our game would improve a lot if they put an actual footballer in that position.

Devrim

4th October 2010, 08:12

The only thing Liverpool are going to win this season is relegation if Torres doesn't get his head out of his ass.

A two-one home defeat to Blackpool won't help.

Devrim

ComradeOm

4th October 2010, 15:07

Van Marwijk isn't the kind of manager to bow to media pressure easily, but at some point there are just so many players on stretchers with oxygen masks due to De Jong that you can't ignore it any longer (he also did something like this against Stuart Holden in a goddamn friendly against the US in March). Our game would improve a lot if they put an actual footballer in that position.I know that there are rules against giving out personal info on this site but its time to come clean. I, ComradeOm, am Bert van Marwijk and I have heeded your advice (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/oct/04/de-jong-holland-ben-arfa) Wanted Man

praxis1966

5th October 2010, 06:16

A two-one home defeat to Blackpool won't help.

Devrim

:lol: I know, right? And they'll be staring down the barrel of another defeat after the international break... It's the Merseyside derby, and my club are the hosts this time round. Our form has been pretty dismal this season as well, but the last four games haven't been a total horror show (apart perhaps from the 1-0 loss to Newcastle): 3-3 home draw against Utd after being down by two goals, a road win against Birmingham, and two consecutive clean sheets. Given the recent form of the two clubs, I'm thinking Moyes's men are smelling blood in the water. Now my only hope is that we don't return from the break with any injuries...

Devrim

5th October 2010, 07:56

Everton are not as bad as results suggest. That said they lack a really quality striker and also the money to buy one. On present form they have a good chance of beating Liverpool. How long do you think Hodgeson can survive?

Devrim

Wanted Man

5th October 2010, 18:08

I know that there are rules against giving out personal info on this site but its time to come clean. I, ComradeOm, am Bert van Marwijk and I have heeded your advice (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/oct/04/de-jong-holland-ben-arfa) Wanted Man

But of course, managers always listen to me. I mean, I've won so much silverware in FM... who would know better?

bricolage

5th October 2010, 18:45

I feel bad for Hodgson because he seems a nice guy and was a good manager at Fulham, every week he just looks more and more like your sad grandfather or something. I remember speaking to a Liverpool fan before the season though and him saying how sure he was they were going to do well this season and I said, why, because you bought Joe Cole? Seriously the love some English people have for that man is ridiculous. I don't think it helps that Torres has been lazy and rubbish this season, considering their attack hinged on him. Also I really like Blackpool so I was even more so happy with the result... which almost made up for a last minute QPR winner, but not quite.

Devrim

5th October 2010, 22:14

I feel bad for Hodgson

I don't.

because he seems a nice guy and was a good manager at Fulham, every week he just looks more and more like your sad grandfather or something.

I can remember my mother, way back, feeling sorry for some manager because he always looked like he was about to cry when we saw him on TV on Saturday night.

I remember speaking to a Liverpool fan before the season though and him saying how sure he was they were going to do well this season and I said, why, because you bought Joe Cole?

Ah, the eternal optimism of football fans... Liverpool have been dire for years now. Everybody got excited and thought they were on the cusp of something a few years ago when they came second. What actually happened was that they had a season where they played above themselves, and neither United and Chelsea played to the best of their abilities, and they still couldn't win the title and finished four points behind.

I don't think it helps that Torres has been lazy and rubbish this season, considering their attack hinged on him.

I don't think that is quite fair. He is a player who is prone to injury, who because of Liverpool's reliance on him gets played when he isn't fully fit, and has played constantly for the last three years now, summers at the WC, Confederations Cup, and Euros.

Actually I think that Hodgeson is a good manager, but that what he does relies on very high fitness levels and tactical discipline. I heard that the Fulham players didn't really buy into it at first until they saw that it worked, and can't imagine the 'stars' at Liverpool taking to it at all. Added to that is the fact that his only other decent player, excluding the goalkeeper, Gerrad, is famous for his lack of tactical discipline, and this is what you get.

Devrim

bricolage

5th October 2010, 22:59

I don't.
Ah I dunno, one of my best friends is a Fulham fan so I guess I got swept away with it all. He is probably quite lucky the whole shambles with the owners is going on as at least it distracts attention from him a bit. On that subject, I know it's meant to be very serious but I couldn't help laughing at this video;
RO55BazkiZ4
I know you can't get youtube in Turkey but it's basically a bunch of Liverpool fans and various celebrities telling Tom Hicks to piss off.

I don't think that is quite fair. He is a player who is prone to injury, who because of Liverpool's reliance on him gets played when he isn't fully fitI think that is true to an extent but you can normally tell the difference between a playing being unfit and being lazy. When I've seen him play this season he just looks like he hasn't been bothered with it all. It probably doesn't make it any better when he isn't getting much help or support from anywhere else on the field, especially seeing as they haven't brought in a decent striker to partner him. I don't say this to just slander him I think he is a world class player but this season I just haven't seen it, although I think he is back out again for a few games so I imagine we won't see him playing well for a while.
But...

Actually I think that Hodgeson is a good manager, but that what he does relies on very high fitness levels and tactical discipline. I heard that the Fulham players didn't really buy into it at first until they saw that it worked, and can't imagine the 'stars' at Liverpool taking to it at all. Added to that is the fact that his only other decent player, excluding the goalkeeper, Gerrad, is famous for his lack of tactical discipline, and this is what you get.
Yeah, this all seems quite likely.

praxis1966

5th October 2010, 23:07

Everton are not as bad as results suggest. That said they lack a really quality striker and also the money to buy one. On present form they have a good chance of beating Liverpool.

I'd like to think that both the first and last statements are true. The middle one I know to be true if for no better reason than all the officials at the club have pretty much said so. We've a good midfield and excellent defense, the only downside is our lack of quality in the final third. Hence, Moyes's constant rotation of Beckford (who, never having played in the top flight before now, was a gamble in the first place), Saha (don't know what's wrong with that guy), and Yakubu (who hasn't been right since he came back from injury last season) in an attempt to find somebody who knows where the back of the net is. One could argue that Arteta being off form has something to do with all of that, but he was injured for long stretches last season and Everton were just fine. Anyway, Bill Kenwright's as much as said the club is for sale, but he doesn't want to see the same sort of thing happen at Everton that's happened on the other side of Stanley Park. In other words, Everton won't just go to the highest bidder. They're waiting for someone who truly is passionate about the club.

How long do you think Hodgeson can survive?

Not long if this keeps up. I give him until the end of December. If he hasn't righted the ship by then, I expect him to have walked the plank by then.

I don't.

Me either. Hodgson knew exactly what he was getting himself into when he put pen to paper. He knew the risks and problems involved in managing that club and he did it anyway. My only thought is that, like most football managers, he had the ego to think that he could actually succeed despite all of Liverpool's internal problems.

I don't think that is quite fair. He is a player who is prone to injury, who because of Liverpool's reliance on him gets played when he isn't fully fit, and has played constantly for the last three years now, summers at the WC, Confederations Cup, and Euros.

Personally, I don't think that characterizing any EPL player as injury prone as fair. It's the most physical league on the planet, the Hatem Ben Arfa injury over the weekend being the most recent reminder of that. Anyway, it's not as though Torres hasn't been contributing; he's had some assists. But if things don't change soon, maybe that City transfer rumor might just turn out to be true.

As an aside, I am aware of the news that Torres picked up an adductor strain over the weekend that puts his appearance in the derby in doubt and apparently Liverpool are on the verge of being sold, potentially to the current owners of the Boston Red Sox. I'd just love it if that happened, btw, as I'm sure the only possible result from sale of the club to another group of Americans will be riots in the streets and protests in Anfield.

Devrim

6th October 2010, 13:54

Personally, I don't think that characterizing any EPL player as injury prone as fair. It's the most physical league on the planet, the Hatem Ben Arfa injury over the weekend being the most recent reminder of that. Anyway, it's not as though Torres hasn't been contributing; he's had some assists. But if things don't change soon, maybe that City transfer rumor might just turn out to be true.

Yes, maybe the term is a bit unfair, and of course Torres' problems are exacerbated by him constantly being returned from injury too early, and too often. Certainly players stand up to the physical grind of it less well than others, one of them being Louis Saha, who you mentioned earlier.

He has contributed, but we both know he van contribute more. Of course, another thing holding him back is the quality of service he gets at Liverpool.

Not long if this keeps up. I give him until the end of December. If he hasn't righted the ship by then, I expect him to have walked the plank by then.

I don't think that he will walk. He will need to be pushed. I can't see these owners doing it. Not having a manager hardly makes the club more sellable.

Devrim

Devrim

6th October 2010, 13:57

praxis1966

6th October 2010, 19:55

Yes, maybe the term is a bit unfair, and of course Torres' problems are exacerbated by him constantly being returned from injury too early, and too often. Certainly players stand up to the physical grind of it less well than others, one of them being Louis Saha, who you mentioned earlier.

Yeah, I'd go along with that.

He has contributed, but we both know he van contribute more. Of course, another thing holding him back is the quality of service he gets at Liverpool.

True. The one exceptional midfielder Liverpool have is Gerrard, and despite his quality he does have a tendency to be selfish. He has a tendency to take shots from 30 or 40 yards away when I'm sure an incisive pass would have a higher chance of success. That would be fine if Liverpool had a decent winger or two to compliment him, but they don't...

I don't think that he will walk. He will need to be pushed. I can't see these owners doing it. Not having a manager hardly makes the club more sellable.

Lulz I was just continuing the "ship" analogy. When I said "walk the plank" I was referring to how pirates used to execute people. In other words, he'll be sacked. From what I understand, the sale to John Henry (the head of the group of investors that owns the Red Sox) is actually pretty imminent. It might actually go down before December.

That being said, you may or may not know this since I'm sure you don't follow baseball, but Henry was the guy that gave the Boston Red Sox their first championship in 86 years, following that with another championship 3 years later. He's the kind of owner who's not afraid to spend money, he lets the experts make the decisions on how to spend it for him, and he expects his team to win. I don't know what else anyone could want from an owner. If he does take over the club, though, you can probably expect a house cleaning. When Henry bought the Red Sox, the first thing he did was fire the club president and the general manager. He only gave the gaffer, Grady Little, one season to win a championship and then fired him, too. That means Hodgson's departure might be sooner rather than later. Not that any of that will matter to the scousers, I'm sure. All they'll probably care about is another Yank taking over their club, lulz...

praxis1966

6th October 2010, 22:03

Looks like the buyout by Henry is the real deal. Article: Liverpool agrees to sale to Red Sox owners (http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/premierleague/story/Liverpool-agrees-sale-to-Red-Sox-owners)

Bandito

7th October 2010, 01:35

Here's a good idea:

NIGEL DE JONG should be banned for the whole time that Hatem Ben Arfa remains on the sidelines.

After watching the Premier League action last weekend, I wonder what has happened to the art of tackling. And where has this scissor tackle come from? That's the one that saw De Jong break the leg of Newcastle's French star who has only just arrived in this country.

The referee didn't even give a free-kick against the Manchester City player, so he'll be back for their next game. Unfortunately it will be a long time before Ben Arfa plays again - and we need a punishment that will make players think twice before going into challenges like that.

The FA should bring in a rule banning players for the same time injured players are out.

I've heard it said that De Jong touched the ball, so the referee deemed it was not even worthy of a free-kick. But you can't tell me that just because someone gets the ball it can't be a bad challenge.

Ian Wright - Arsenal legend.

Devrim

7th October 2010, 09:27

Looks like the buyout by Henry is the real deal. Article: Liverpool agrees to sale to Red Sox owners (http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/premierleague/story/Liverpool-agrees-sale-to-Red-Sox-owners)

It seems quite controversial and likely to end up in court.

Devrim

Devrim

7th October 2010, 09:28

That being said, you may or may not know this since I'm sure you don't follow baseball,

Are you American? If so how did you end up supporting Everton?

Devrim

ZeroNowhere

7th October 2010, 16:52

The FA should bring in a rule banning players for the same time injured players are out.This sounds ludicrous in just about every way possible.

praxis1966

7th October 2010, 19:16

Are you American? If so how did you end up supporting Everton?

Devrim

It's kind of a long story, so I'll do my best to be brief. I've always been a fan of the sport in general (you know, having played it for 15 years and all), but being an American I'd never really had any way to view it being played at it's highest levels apart from the World Cup every four years. I got all kinds of excited when, during the 1994 Cup here in the States, I learned that by 1996 a professional domestic league was to be founded. It turned out that the product, the MLS, was vastly inferior to what the naive 18 year old me had expected. Fast forward to the autumn of 2001 and I finally get a digital cable package which included Fox Sports World, now Fox Soccer Channel, which televised 2,500 matches a year from leagues all over the planet.

To begin with, I just watched every match they televised no matter who was playing. Shortly thereafter, in the January transfer window, my favorite American national team player at the time, Brian McBride, went to Everton on a loan spell and consequently I began following them more closely. A true supporter doesn't choose, he is chosen as the saying goes, and I fell in love with Everton (if that sounds sappy enough for you). I adored their blue-collar-bring-your-lunch-pail-and-go-to-work style of play, admired the tough nosed, honest, Scot gaffer David Moyes, and it didn't hurt that wunderkind Wayne Rooney was just beginning to break into the senior team at the time.

I've been dyed-in-the-wool ever since. :)

Oh, and yeah, you're right in re the Liverpool sale. I think it will wind up in court, but I don't think the courts will look too fondly on Gillette and Hicks trying to fire board members under those circumstances.

Wanted Man

12th October 2010, 21:32

Karma is a *****. Yesterday, Guus Hiddink joined the long list of moaners who think that the Netherlands don't play attractive enough football. "They're not my team anymore", he declared. Then his Turkey side lose to Azerbaijan, while the Netherlands ripped Sweden apart with absolutely brilliant football. Now, I think Hiddink is a legend, but in this case, he needs to STFU IMO. I agree that the football isn't always perfect, but it's so easy to whine about it from the side lines. Especially when you do it in such a cowardly and demagogic way. After all, who doesn't like beautiful football? It's so easy.

In other news, Italy vs Serbia was ruined by a bunch of fucking idiots. Perhaps they could pit the Italian riot cops and the Serbian hooligans against each other in a death match. It could be like bullfighting, where even if the bull wins, he still gets stabbed to death.

Bandito

13th October 2010, 12:46

In other news, Italy vs Serbia was ruined by a bunch of fucking idiots. Perhaps they could pit the Italian riot cops and the Serbian hooligans against each other in a death match. It could be like bullfighting, where even if the bull wins, he still gets stabbed to death.
Idiots.
Gay pride riots just triggered these assholes to riot in Genova as well. Result? Serbian goalkeeper beaten up, match ended officially 3-0 for Italy, albanian flag burned. Way to support your team.

bricolage

17th October 2010, 10:42

I was just on Skype with an elderly relative who lives in England who was talking about taking his Grandson to see Arsenal for his first football match. He was saying it costs about £60 to go to Arsenal nowadays.
My friend who goes to Fulham matches said the only tickets left for the Tottenham game on Saturday were 70 pounds. I believe that for Asenal games sometimes you have to pay more if you aren't a member because you had to buy it as part of a hotel/tour of the ground package so it comes to over 200 quid, well that's what someone told me. I paid 50 pounds combined for tickets for Palace-QPR and Palace-Millwall which are probably the biggest homes games of the year, away tickets were about 30. I'm not sure about the rest of the Championship but I have to imagine that is near the top end, it certainly seems a lot to me. When I was at school I could get a under-16s season ticket for 30 pounds which was very good, I doubt that exists anymore and I understand most season tickets are about 300 quid. Away games in the past I've generally had to pay anywhere between 15 and 30. Considering we are talking about Championship football here which isn't of a very high level this is a lot of money to be talking about.

Devrim

17th October 2010, 12:22

My friend who goes to Fulham matches said the only tickets left for the Tottenham game on Saturday were 70 pounds. I believe that for Asenal games sometimes you have to pay more if you aren't a member because you had to buy it as part of a hotel/tour of the ground package so it comes to over 200 quid, well that's what someone told me. I paid 50 pounds combined for tickets for Palace-QPR and Palace-Millwall which are probably the biggest homes games of the year, away tickets were about 30. I'm not sure about the rest of the Championship but I have to imagine that is near the top end, it certainly seems a lot to me. When I was at school I could get a under-16s season ticket for 30 pounds which was very good, I doubt that exists anymore and I understand most season tickets are about 300 quid. Away games in the past I've generally had to pay anywhere between 15 and 30. Considering we are talking about Championship football here which isn't of a very high level this is a lot of money to be talking about.

Oh my God! At Ankaragücü in the Turkish Super league you pay 40TL (£17.50).

Devrim

Devrim

17th October 2010, 12:22

Oh my God! At Ankaragücü in the Turkish Super league you pay 40TL (£17.50).

That is for a season ticket of course.

Devrim

17th October 2010, 13:11

Oh my God! At Ankaragücü in the Turkish Super league you pay 40TL (£17.50).

Devrim

This wouldnt be enough to buy me one game ticket down here...Season ticket is 200 euros, but of course its the cheapiest cause im in the fans part of the stadium, which also means the worst seats(behind the keeper)

Bandito

17th October 2010, 18:13

It is very interesting what is going on the serbian stands at the moment.

A proof of my writings here before, football fans (right-wing hooligans) are once again in service of the serbian intelligence agency, the secret police. After organized riots during Gay Pride in Belgrade (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11511234), the attempt of assassination of national team's goalkeeper (http://brandimposter.com/serbian-goalkeeper-rushed-to-hospital-20101735.html), riots that caused stopping of the Italy-Serbia game (http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/10/13/1870758/alleged-ringleader-of-serb-soccer.html), the nationalist police children announced that the game between Red Star and Partizan Belgrade, set for Oct 23th, will also be interrupted. The official reason is a protest against (criminal, I agree) the president of Serbian Football Federation, but the reasons for this escalated violence are far deeper and a reason for indepth political discussion.

Tell me that this Nazi (check out the 28 tattooed on his right arm) , organizer of the riots in Genova, is not sent by the police.
http://www.eltiempo.com/deportes/futbol/IMAGEN/IMAGEN-8128441-2.jpg

Devrim

18th October 2010, 09:40

A happy day for paraxis 1966, and other Everton fans although it got overshadowed in the media by the reports about Rooney.

Hodgeson's post match interview was vintage stuff:

We didn't score goals and Everton did but I refuse to accept that we were in any way outplayed or any way inferior. :confused:

I watched the performance and the second half was as good as I saw a Liverpool team play under my management that is for sure.As did I. What Roy neglects to mention here is that Liverpool have been absolutely awful under his management, which is why they are next to bottom of the league. Being 'as good as' that doesn't mean much.

This is not a crisis.The word crisis gets bounded about a lot in football and is almost certainly overused. It is, however, the worst start to the season, and the worst record after 8 games, Liverpool have had since 1928.

to get a result here would have been UtopiaWithout being unfair to Everton, I hardly thing that getting a result there could be described as utopia. To put it in perspective, it was Everton's first home win of the season, which means that the three teams that have gone their already this year all managed to get 'a result', including Wolves who got a 1-1 draw, and are in the relegation zone.

To be fair to Liverpool Wolves are above them in the league.

Devrim

Wanted Man

18th October 2010, 16:43

I haven't seen a lot of Liverpool's games lately, but I did see the one at Everton last weekend. Obviously, it was an embarrassing result as part of an awful season. I wonder to what extent it can be blamed on Hodgson, but he certainly doesn't seem to have the ability to make it better. In any case, the problem seems to be structural at all levels in the club.

To be honest, I don't think this Liverpool squad are good enough to compete for the title in all lines, but they still have the likes of Gerrard, Torres, etc. If those players all consistently fail to perform, that's a problem. Without their likes, Liverpool's squad simply isn't that good. If they can't rise above themselves, this can be very dangerous. At some point, it doesn't matter how big you used to be, and things can go wrong very fast. Just look at Newcastle a couple of years ago.

Tifosi

19th October 2010, 21:21

Bandito

19th October 2010, 23:51

Grobari (Partizan Belgrade fans) didn't go to Genoa, at least not organized like Delije (Red Star supporters), which can also be seen as a proof of police infiltration of Serbian hooligans.
Actually, the guy from the photo used to be a S.H.A.R.P, and used to carry a skinhead banner on Red Star games, got into a trouble with the law, didn't hesitate to squeel, changed his appearence, and now he is a proud contributor to serbian police' intelligence. Bravo.

http://www.euronews.net/wires/reuters-sport/images/2010-10-14T105116Z_01_BTRE69D0U6100_RTROPTP_3_OUKSP-UK-SOCCER-EURO-SERBIA-ARRESTS.JPG

That's him without the riot makeup. I heard he was hiding in a suitcase when the carabinieri found him. A true hooligan legend.

Wanted Man

22nd October 2010, 20:48

Well, looks like Rooney has done a U-turn. Too bad; now the entire rant of Ian "it's wrong!" Holloway is useless.

Wanted Man

24th October 2010, 20:01

One of the strangest games in our Mickey Mouse league happened today. PSV managed to beat Feyenoord by no less than 10-0! Feyenoord used to be a top club, but they have had financial troubles over the last years. Last season, their young squad, managed by true Feyenoord man Mario Been, managed an admirable 4th position. However, injury problems and the departure of most of their decent veteran players have led to them hovering just above the relegation zone this season.

Today, they hit absolute rock bottom with the worst defeat in club history. A very harsh red card decision in the first half was the main problem, but apparently they were not up to the job of digging in for the rest of the match. Their defence was torn apart again and again by an unleashed PSV, leading to the infamous final score. PSV scored some beautiful goals, it has to be said, but it still felt like there was no true glory in them. Predictably, the Feyenoord manager was distraught and angry fans awaited the side back in Rotterdam.

The game: http://www.eredivisie.nl/video/autoplay/31075/samenvatting_psv-feyenoord.html

Bandito

24th October 2010, 23:51

It is sad what's happening to Feyenoord at the moment. Although my favorite club in Netherlands is, without any particular reason, PSV, I always had a lot of respect for Feyenoord, and especially their fanatical fans (little known fact is that they have a supporter's organization for kids under 12 that is called Kameraadjes group, or "little comrades" :) ...cute).
It is still considered as one of the Dutch "big three", but as Wanted Man said, financial crisis butchered them, and now this. I am not at all happy about this goal parade, and I usually am about games with loads of goals.
But it wasn't just bad finances that led to their downfall, but also horrible scouting in the last few years. Just remember the Charisteas signing as a replacement for Kuyt. Also note that latest policy of Feyenoord was bringing back the old players, instead a good tradition of breeding their own talent. In my opinion, although terrific players, Makaay and Van Bronchorst just kept the kids on the bench instead on the pitch, and that had a lot off effect on Feyenoord's performance.
Perhaps a change of manager would do well for this fallen giant. Mario Been's time is, evidentely, up, since he hasn't managed to pull anything off, and he does not have an average team at hand. I mean, likes of Vlaar, Wijnaldum, Tomasson and Bruins are not the players ment to finish 7th or 11th in the Dutch League.

Wanted Man, since you are more into Dutch affairs than the rest of us, can you tell me what are the chances of Leo Beenhakker returning to managing?

Wanted Man

25th October 2010, 00:53

It is absolutely sad, even if you support a rival team. After all, what good is a rival when you're not in direct competition with them any more? I can remember quite well when Feyenoord last won the league, in 1999, just when everything relating to Ajax was collapsing (big players leaving, shit management, league finishes outside of the top 3, etc.). All the little glory-hunting kids suddenly began to support Feyenoord instead of Ajax. :p

In my opinion, poor scouting is one of the reasons for financial downfall. A long string of multi-million euro flops can really put a club in the red; just look at Ajax over the last few seasons. The "signing old players" policy of 2007 was very much a double-edged sword. The idea was to qualify for the Champions League and rake in the money, but instead, they ended up empty-handed and with a long list of players with big salaries. The only thing that can be said is that the likes of Van Bronckhorst and Makaay (the latter was repeatedly dropped from the first-team squad, BTW) at least kept them at the top half of the table.

Another brilliant idea was to gamble with the future of Jonathan de Guzman, a pretty big talent. They arrogantly refused a €10M bid from Man City, hoping to earn more. Then he got into all sorts of injury trouble, he barely played, and then he walked out to Mallorca on a free transfer. That is what we call "a small mistake".

Now, most of those old players are retired or they had to get rid of them (except that they still have a 41-year-old goalie because none of the younger ones are good enough), and all the youngsters have to make their mark early on. So now the squad is basically made up of:

Kids like Wijnaldum and Fer who can/could basically be considered wonderkids, but who are not quite up to the task of leading the team all by themselves.
Older players who are decent, but don't add anything except. I.e. De Cler and the goalie, Van Dijk.
Good experienced players like Tomasson who don't seem to make their mark as much this season.
The vast majority: very young players who are all clearly bright talents, but how they're going to develop is still very much in the dark.
Guys like Luigi Bruins and Biseswar, who were great talents in the past, but are very mediocre squad players now.
Quite a few mediocre players, attempted bargains and loans by Beenhakker, who also don't add much.
Good, semi-experienced players like Vlaar, Cissé, El Ahmadi, etc., some of whom are injured too often.

As for Beenhakker, I don't see him returning to management due to his age. He has already had so many good and bad times at dozens of great clubs and with Holland (that was entirely bad :p), and he's done an admirable job at a few smaller nations; his last big ambition was to help Feyenoord through troubled times, and even that seems to be collapsing after their excellent last season.

praxis1966

26th October 2010, 22:22

A happy day for paraxis 1966, and other Everton fans although it got overshadowed in the media by the reports about Rooney.

Indeed. I was over the moon after the result.

As did I. What Roy neglects to mention here is that Liverpool have been absolutely awful under his management, which is why they are next to bottom of the league. Being 'as good as' that doesn't mean much.

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt, as the old Alcoholics Anonymous adage goes.

The word crisis gets bounded about a lot in football and is almost certainly overused. It is, however, the worst start to the season, and the worst record after 8 games, Liverpool have had since 1928.

Personally, I think the word "crisis" is definitely apropos here. I don't know of any other word in the English language one could use to describe it.

Without being unfair to Everton, I hardly thing that getting a result there could be described as utopia. To put it in perspective, it was Everton's first home win of the season, which means that the three teams that have gone their already this year all managed to get 'a result', including Wolves who got a 1-1 draw, and are in the relegation zone.

It's not just that. There was a time, not so long ago, that if Liverpool didn't get at least a draw out of the away fixture with Everton that it would have been seen as an abject failure. This is Hodgson simply reflecting verbally how low expectations have really sunk around Anfield.

To be fair to Liverpool Wolves are above them in the league.

This is kind of a low blow if you're a Liverpool fan, hilarious to an Everton supporter like me. Wolves are above Liverpool in the table. Just ponder that one for a moment.:laugh:

...it doesn't matter how big you used to be, and things can go wrong very fast. Just look at Newcastle a couple of years ago.

Honestly, I don't think the Newcastle situation is really comparable. I mean, outside the minds of a few self-deluded Geordies, who really thought Newcastle was a big club? They hadn't won a damned thing since 1969 when they won the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup (now the UEFA cup). To put that into perspective, my father was still a teenager and I'm now 32 years old, lol...

Anyway, there are far better analogies both inside and outside of football. People keep saying that Liverpool are too big to fail, but what else did they say that about? The best examples I can think of are the Titanic, the company who used to be on Manchester's shirt (AIG), and Leeds...

At any rate, I think Everton have definitely turned the corner given the win over Liverpool two weeks ago and the draw away to Tottenham (a result any other club in the league apart from Chelsea would've been happy with). I don't know that we're out of the woods yet, but considering our fixtures over the next month or so (Stoke, Blackpool, Bolton, Arsenal, Sunderland, West Brom) I'd say things are probably going to be on the up for the immediate future.

Bandito

27th October 2010, 00:46

Honestly, I don't think the Newcastle situation is really comparable. I mean, outside the minds of a few self-deluded Geordies, who really thought Newcastle was a big club?
I think a club who has been consistently in the top five from the forming of the Premier League, until things started to go wrong, deserves more credit than that.
Being part of either Champions League(not just group stages) or UEFA Cup(best result was semifinals in the season 03/04 where they tragicaly lost to Marseille) from the season 1994/95 to 2006/07 really makes Newcastle a big club.
Apart from results, their stadium, St.James's Park was the second biggest ground in England, until Emirates statium was finished. Now it's third, with capacity of 52,387 comfortable seats, which is far bigger than, for example, Liverpool or Chelsea.
Newcastle United is a big club, it is just guided poorly by the fat cockney moron and the owner of Sports Direct, Mike Ashley, accompanied by the worst talent estimator in the world, Dennis Wise.

praxis1966

27th October 2010, 02:37

I still don't think any of that makes them a big club... I mean, Everton's won silverware in the league, FA Cup, and in Europe more recently than Newcastle and you won't hear anyone calling them a big club. That includes me, and I'm an Everton supporter. Frankly, I don't personally think stadium size has anything to do with it either... Just look at Manchester United...

Devrim

27th October 2010, 12:15

I think a club who has been consistently in the top five from the forming of the Premier League, until things started to go wrong, deserves more credit than that.
Being part of either Champions League(not just group stages) or UEFA Cup(best result was semifinals in the season 03/04 where they tragicaly lost to Marseille) from the season 1994/95 to 2006/07 really makes Newcastle a big club.
Apart from results, their stadium, St.James's Park was the second biggest ground in England, until Emirates statium was finished. Now it's third, with capacity of 52,387 comfortable seats, which is far bigger than, for example, Liverpool or Chelsea.
Newcastle United is a big club, it is just guided poorly by the fat cockney moron and the owner of Sports Direct, Mike Ashley, accompanied by the worst talent estimator in the world, Dennis Wise.

I think Newcastle has pretensions of being a 'big club'. I suppose it depends what you mean by the term. I mean Sheffield Wednesday are a 'big club', but where are they now? The same goes for Leeds.

There are at most five really 'big clubs' in England, Manchester United, Chelsea and Arsenal, the only teams to have won a title in the last 15 years, Liverpool and, perhaps nowadays, Manchester City.

...And the rest comes nowhere. All other English teams are in a position where the threat of relegation is a very real possibility every season.

Devrim

Bandito

27th October 2010, 16:58

There are top 4 clubs in England. Without a doubt, those are big guns, Manchester United, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool.
I'd say Manchester City is the one having pretensions of being a big club, and there are historically big names, like Newcastle and Nottingham Forest.
Those two, for example, will never be considered as competitors for big guns at their position, but will certainly be valued more than, say, Fulham or Birmingham.
I will, however, have to add that there might be a possibility that I am subjective, being a Toon supporter myself, but I think that quite sums it up.

Devrim

28th October 2010, 11:46

There are top 4 clubs in England. Without a doubt, those are big guns, Manchester United, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool.

I wouldn't put Liverpool amongst them. They haven't won a title for twenty years. Certainly they dominated the 70s and 80s, but they are living on past glory.

I'd say Manchester City is the one having pretensions of being a big club,

Certainly, though they have much more chance than Newcastle of achieving it.

and there are historically big names, like Newcastle and Nottingham Forest.
Those two, for example, will never be considered as competitors for big guns at their position, but will certainly be valued more than, say, Fulham or Birmingham.

By whom? I am sure Fulham fans value Fulham.

Devrim

Bandito

28th October 2010, 23:49

This is pointless.

However, this is not. Mehmet Scholl on acid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0io9xtWyiIc&feature=player_embedded).

Wanted Man

2nd November 2010, 23:02

Another great night in the CL. FC Twente did well against Werder Bremen, and once Werder got a red card, they were able to finish the job. Their first ever Champions League victory! Good stuff. Twente owe their qualification to the one and only Steve McClaren, but their new manager, the former Belgian goalie Preud'homme, is showing his capabilities as well. Preud'homme's brand of football is incredibly attractive and furiously attack-minded. I like it when a manager says, "I don't want to have too much possession, because we have to go forward". After a bit of a rusty start, they are once again title favourites and they even have a tiny chance of progressing in the CL.

Even more impressive was Spurs vs Inter, with the inevitable Van der Vaart and Bale. We've already seen what they're capable of all season, but it's delightful to see them manage it at this stage as well. Especially Bale is just amazing.

Bandito

4th November 2010, 19:54

4th November 2010, 20:08

yep, was suprised too, saw his posibilities threw pes2011:D though, and was suprised from there also, good to know that the great stats on the game met rl.;) the guy has a bright future, i want him in OMONOIA:D

Wanted Man

4th November 2010, 23:07

I remember Bale way back from Football Manager 2007, but he has really become incredibly good. Top player.

Tifosi

10th November 2010, 17:31

http://imgur.com/CXm26.jpg

Poppy banner forces Celtic apology
Mon, 08 Nov 11:35:10 2010

Celtic have apologised for an anti-poppy banner that was displayed during the 9-0 win over Aberdeen at Parkhead on Saturday.
Fans among a section of supporters called The Green Brigade, unfurled a banner during half-time which read: "Your deeds would shame all the devils in Hell. Ireland, Iraq, Afghanistan. No bloodstained poppy on our Hoops."
Celtic responded to the controversy by issuing a statement on the club's website which said: "The actions of this small minority have no place at Celtic Park. We are currently investigating the matter and, clearly, we apologise for any offence caused."
Some fans of the club, which has a strong Irish Catholic heritage, refuse to
support the Poppy Appeal because of the legacy of the Troubles in Northern Ireland while the Green Brigade are known for demonstrating support for Irish republicanism at games.

From Eurosport

----

Impossible to find an article without the word Catholic in it:lol:

I.O.T.M

10th November 2010, 21:28

Dover are through to the second round of the FA Cup, but unfortunately I won't be able to attend the game.

Wanted Man

14th November 2010, 23:53

One of the weirdest signings of this season is Mido, who went to Ajax on a free transfer. He arrived overweight and unfit, but he did score in a Cup game against a lower-league side. Today, he played one half at AZ as Ajax lost their second league game in a row (after being embarrassed at home by ADO Den Haag...). Crisis is imminent at Ajax yet again.

http://media.nu.nl/m/m1fzr40amxtm.jpg
http://media.nu.nl/m/m1fzr40afqtr.jpg

"Mido plays along for one half."
"I've lost a lot of pounds."
"They're over there."

(Verhoeven was Volendam's classic "fat goalie" who inexplicably became Ajax's 3rd keeper for a €375,000 fee last season...)

:lol:

14th November 2010, 23:58

the pizza boy?:lol:
lol (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjY3lgl05VE)

Wanted Man

15th November 2010, 00:01

the pizza boy?:lol:
lol (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjY3lgl05VE)

Yup. :lol:

And another one:

From about a week ago, after it turned out that Theo Janssen (known for his brilliance, but also for his enjoyment of a beer and a smoke every now and then...) has a clause in his contract that will allow any club to buy him for €3M:

http://media.nu.nl/m/m1fzqgta7n35.jpg
http://media.nu.nl/m/m1fzqgtajt38.jpg

"Janssen: I'm open to a beautiful club."
"Preferably one with a Maradona-type manager."

praxis1966

19th November 2010, 06:37

lssBAvd8ibU

He is unbelievable. I knew he was a good prospect, with all the fuss about him moving from Southampton to Tottenham, but this is just ridiculous. It was probably the finest game of a single player I've seen in years.

Funny... Phil Neville had Bale in a straight jacket but the world's greatest right back couldn't contain him. Just goes to show you the old adage is true: Brazilians really don't know how to play proper defense, lulz...

Wanted Man

19th November 2010, 09:16

On Man Utd's £3.5m signing of Anders Lindegaard, the Danish goalkeeper:

http://media.nu.nl/m/m1fzrlwa5slq.jpg
http://media.nu.nl/m/m1fzrlvam2lv.jpg

:rolleyes:

Devrim

28th November 2010, 05:53

I watched Manchester United yesterday as they won 7-1 against Blackburn. United have taken a lot of flak this year, and to be honest they weren't anything special yesterday. Blackburn were just woeful.

I have a feeling though that United are going to achieve great things this season. I don't know why. Perhaps it is because they haven't been playing very well, and are top of the Premiership and still in all competitions. They must hit some good form at some point.

Devrim

Bandito

28th November 2010, 15:46

Newcastle 1-1 Chelsea

29th November 2010, 20:56

El classico... wow, just wow, barca is playing pro evolution!its not the first time but didnt expect that this easily with real.I hope damn murinho will start playing offensive so we see more from that game.I expected more really generally, but the result seems a bit shock especially on how real is no where.

Wanted Man

29th November 2010, 21:45

Not watching the game, unfortunately, but I think this is a case where the current scoreline says enough. I'm not a Barcelona fanboy or Mourinho-hater who worships everything that Barça do. If Real win the league with a manager like Mourinho, and guys like Ronaldo playing well, that is fine with me as well. Of course Mourinho is a prick, and Real have made some ridiculously expensive signings who ended up failing, but Barcelona are not saints in this respect either. Many people would instinctively support Barcelona as playing "real football", which is a bit rich, as if they are somehow above the cut-throat business that is modern football. I do not believe that Inter beating Barcelona in the CL was "a disaster for football", as some typical Dutch Barcelona fanboy commentator described it at the time.

Still, if Barcelona manage to win this game so comprehensively, it does show some fundamental differences in the approach that these clubs take to football. Both in the long-term strategic sense and in terms of the tactics displayed on the pitch. So I'm still quite happy with this Barcelona win.

29th November 2010, 22:00

i am disappointed, not from barca win, or real loosing i couldnt care less, but cause i was expecting a great match and just got another of those where barca destroyed the opponent... it got boring :p i wanted a game like 3-3...:( that would be worth watching.

Bandito

30th November 2010, 15:01

Powerful performance by Barcelona.
It's been awhile since I saw such a dominant play, especially in the 2nd half. Messi is the best player out there now, but it would be interesting to see him without support he gets from Xavi and Iniesta, especially the quiet man Xavi.

pastradamus

30th November 2010, 19:13

Having been at a few Barcelona games in the past I must say they are simply great to watch. It was good to see them pull Mourinho Down a peg too!

Bandito

1st December 2010, 13:46

All due respect to Barcelona's tactic, as it seems to be working like a charm, it is a boring football to watch. Actually, it's only interesting if it's 0-0 or when Barcelona is losing(rare occasions, yes). But when they take the lead, as they usually do, they play quick short passes on the small parts of the pitch, and, yes, i find that time wasting boring.
And, yes, I am aware that the system is working, that they waste time effectively and with style, and that no other team can pull it off.
But still, time wasting of any sort is an obstruction of the game.

Rosa Lichtenstein

1st December 2010, 17:02

Devrim:

I watched Manchester United yesterday as they won 7-1 against Blackburn. United have taken a lot of flak this year, and to be honest they weren't anything special yesterday. Blackburn were just woeful.

I have a feeling though that United are going to achieve great things this season. I don't know why. Perhaps it is because they haven't been playing very well, and are top of the Premiership and still in all competitions. They must hit some good form at some point.

Devrim

They were awaful last night against West Ham, but, then, Fergie made nine changes to the team that thrashed Blackburn.

However, they are going to have to go up several gears if they want to beat Barcelona, should they face them in the Champions' League.

Devrim

1st December 2010, 21:18

They were awaful last night against West Ham, but, then, Fergie made nine changes to the team that thrashed Blackburn.

However, they are going to have to go up several gears if they want to beat Barcelona, should they face them in the Champions' League.

I didn't know you were a football fan, Rosa? Who do you support?

I don't think United are a particulary good team. Fortunately for them nor is any of the opposition in their league. Yes, they got stuffed by West Ham, but it was a very weak team they put out.

I think that this is quite worrying for United. A United 'B' team should be able to see off the likes of West Ham, but it is a concern for the long term, not one for this season.

As for Barça, I think that it is quite clear that they are the best, and also most exciting team in Europe at the moment. I think though when you are getting to the final stages of the CL, all of the teams are very good and it be ones a bit of a lottery based on who has a good night in a particular match.

Anyway, congratulations to West Ham. You can only beat the team you are playing, and they did it convincingly.

Devrim

Rosa Lichtenstein

2nd December 2010, 00:58

Man U, who else?

I don't think United are a particulary good team. Fortunately for them nor is any of the opposition in their league. Yes, they got stuffed by West Ham, but it was a very weak team they put out.

They aren't as good as the 2006/7 or 2007/8 teams, and vastly inferior to the 1999/2000 team. The massive debt the Glazer family has loaded on them is crippling the club.

However, had United fielded the team that beat Blackburn, they'd have seen West Ham off easily.

2nd December 2010, 01:46

Man U, who else?

:thumbup1: Had the same reaction with Devrim on this, i think this is the first post i see from you on sports

On another note, AEKara got the double in Hadjuk with 1-3, and after the win on derby with olympiacos, im hoping we are back on the good old days.I just hope we get read of that idiot dellas, he is slower than his shadow...

I.O.T.M

3rd December 2010, 14:17

I might be going to see Dover play Huddersfield away in the 3rd round of the FA Cup. I'm pretty excited. Come on you Whites!

Stranger Than Paradise

5th December 2010, 11:10

We played alright against Fulham yesterday but we really need to start scoring more. I've come to the conclusion that at the moment we're not going to get over our frailties at the back until Vermaelen comes back in the new year (and when he does he'll have to be partnered by one of the two still questionable signings) so we have to score the chances we create early in games and not allow teams back into games like we did against Fulham and Villa.

Still, United game next monday....

Wanted Man

6th December 2010, 17:31

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/dec/06/newcastle-sack-chris-hughton

What a weird move. What, just because the guy lost one away match against a lesser side? Another brilliant move from the boardroom at "sportsdirect.com @ St James' Park Stadium". :rolleyes:

Quite frankly, it's also embarrassing that they were able to find coaches at the club willing to take on the caretaker manager's and assistant's positions. The only honourable thing to do with such an offer is to rip it up and shit on the chairman's desk before leaving. Of course, that's easy to say; these people have families to feed as well. But perhaps these insane club owners would be a bit more reluctant if there weren't dozens of Quislings at the club prepared to take the manager's job. Show some fucking solidarity for once in a modern football world where success is determined by the ability to lick upwards and kick downwards.

ComradeOm

6th December 2010, 17:59

What a weird move. What, just because the guy lost one away match against a lesser side? Another brilliant move from the boardroom at "sportsdirect.com @ St James' Park Stadium". :rolleyes:He had to go. It is an absolute disgrace for Newcastle FC to be 11th in the league, in their first season since promotion, and only one place above Liverpool. NFC is one of the largest clubs in the world, with the best fans as well, and it should be challenging for the Champion's League (note: the cup, not qualification) every single year. Chris did an okay job in winning NFC's first league title in decades but it was getting embarrassing having a Championship manager coaching England's top team. No doubt Ashley already has Mourinho lined up to replace him

Wanted Man

6th December 2010, 18:13

No doubt, with this inspired leadership, Newcastle will once again be able to compete in fierce rivalries like the Tyne-Tees derby within two seasons.

Bandito

6th December 2010, 18:24

Great job Mike Ashley, you cockney twat.
On the other hand, if he wasn't sacked just for the sake of this fatass piece of shit, it would be a good move to replace him as a manager. Here's why.
He was inspiring and a great leader, popular with the players, who could really work with known troublemakers such as Carroll or Barton, and make useful players of them, who had extraordinary methods of creating a good atmosphere and so on.
But really, he was not that good tactically, or had the guts for creating something extraordinary in order to get extraordinary result(except for the time when he put Andy Carroll at DM in the last 20 mins of the Arsenal game, which I think it was brilliant).
He was too reluctant when it comes to changing tactics during the game.
He only rotated 15 players this season, and, for the example, WBA fielded 20 of them already this season.

I'm looking forward seeing Peter Beardsley on the bench in the L'Pool game, and seriously looking forward to seeing Martin O'Neill as new Newcastle manager. But that is just my wish, and I am aware that O'Neill couldn't stand much less interference with his managing than it could be expected from the freak like Mike Cashley. I'm fairly sure NUFC will end up with likes of Alan Pardew or Joe Kinnear in no time. Ashley demands obedience!

However, when it comes to Chris Hughton, he is:

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1174.snc4/154611_1712812297323_1148620743_1932076_1001102_n. jpg

ComradeOm

6th December 2010, 18:49

On the other hand, if he wasn't sacked just for the sake of this fatass piece of shit, it would be a good move to replace him as a managerAlmost halfway through the season, with the club finely poised in the mid-table and a volatile group of players to welcome the new manager in. Yeah, I can't see any way in which this could backfire disastrously...

And all this at a time when Newcastle have not been doing badly. They've been somewhat inconsistent (in what is proving to be a wildly inconsistent season for everyone) but mid-table is not a bad place to be in your first season back in the Premiership. The expectation that a new manager would somehow catapult the club into the top five, or that this is the level that NFC should be performing at, is pretty bizarre

Bandito

6th December 2010, 18:58

You didn't get my point.
Nobody thinks what he has done was bad performance or the fact that he was betrayed. I raised my concerns about his tactical skills. In a fictional situation where he gets replaced by Martin O'Neill, that would be tolerable. However, since we are going to see an buttkisser like Pardew or someone of that sort, this is a disasterous thing to do at this moment.

ComradeOm

6th December 2010, 19:03

Nobody thinks what he has done was bad performance...Then why suggest that it could be a good move to replace him? Surely any perceived deficiencies in his tactical skills are irrelevant (step forward 'Arry) once he's performing well? Or at least better than any of the plausible alternatives would

Bandito

6th December 2010, 19:19

Or at least better than any of the plausible alternatives would This is the point. If he got substituted by a manager that is tactically better than CH is, fine by me. But he's not going to be.

Here's the proof:

William Hill have suspended betting on Pardew being the next Newcastle Manager

Fuck it, it's Pardew.

Bandito

6th December 2010, 19:36

From Twitter:

Jonas Gutierrez : 'Thank you Chris Hughton for believing in us when nobody believed in us.'

Danny Simpson : 'Shocked'

Rio Ferdinand: "Chris Hughton SACKED....is it april fools?!"

Wanted Man

6th December 2010, 21:02

Martin Jol has just left Ajax. Last season, after a tough start, Ajax had an amazing second half, and came extremely close to winning the league if not for a slightly more perfect FC Twente under Steve McClaren. This season, however, they never looked like a team. Jol did not seem to have any positive influence on his players. Luis Suarez hit a massive crisis in his form, he was suspended for 7 games after biting an opponent, and he did not combine well with the new striker El Hamdaoui. Jol did not gain much sympathy by publicly stating that everything would be fine if he was given €10M to buy new wingers, nor when he came into conflict with his assistant and club man Danny Blind.

Like in England, the Dutch league is currently rather messy. Even the best sides look very poor sometimes, and although Ajax dropped so many points that they would normally be out of the title race, they actually still have a decent shot at the title. But clearly, Jol does not feel confident enough to do it. Or maybe he's had a call from Mike Ashley? Anyway, Frank de Boer will take on the caretaker job. The good thing about this is that we can finally see whether Frank is a decent manager or not.

Newcastle odds:

http://i56.tinypic.com/2rer7gl.jpg

ComradeOm

6th December 2010, 21:50

Like in England, the Dutch league is currently rather messySeems to be a European trend. France is completely up in the air and Germany is not much better. Even Italy is seeing some odd runs of form. Only in Spain does normal service continue

Wanted Man

6th December 2010, 22:05

Haven't been able to follow the other continental leagues, unfortunately. :( But what's certainly interesting is that sides like Bayern and Inter are not just underperforming a little, but are actually slumping heavily, out of the usual top teams in their nations, with very low odds of capturing the title. I don't follow French football at all, but looking at the Ligue 1 table, it's apparently the same over there. Crazy stuff.

Anyway, to avoid any kind of redundant typing, I'll just paste what I just wrote on another forum about Jol:

Mixed feelings from this Ajax fan.

Jol is a good manager, no doubt about that. But he is not perfect. At Ajax, he had a terrific second half of the last season, but this season was absolute rubbish. Ajax played an opportunistic game, never really dominant, relying only on flashes of brilliance from Suarez. They never looked like a team this season. Suarez started underperforming and did not combine well with new striker El Hamdaoui. Things only got worse as he bit an opponent in the shoulder and was banned for 7 games.

Jol himself also created a bit of bad blood recently. Signing De Zeeuw last season and El Hamdaoui this season was common sense. However, signings like Timothee Atouba, Teemu Tainio and Mido were rather strange, the perception being that they were mostly signed for their previous association with Jol, rather than quality. Many of these signings are represented by the controversial agent Mino Raiola, who also represents Jol himself.

Jol also brought along his elder brother Cornelius as an assistant, who did not add much, while he came into a conflict with another assistant, club man Danny Blind. In response to the poor performances, Jol further alienated the club and fans by stating that he would very much like a €10M kitty to purchase new wingers, a weak area in the squad that he has composed so far.

With Jol, you get a good manager who can do impressive things with the club, but you also get the entire Jol family, his friends, his agent, said agent's players, etc. As a club, you have to ask yourself whether you want that. But perhaps Ashley is up for it.

And a lazy Google Translation that still makes this article rather accurate and funny:

Jol relies primarily on his family

All in the family

By: Thijs Zonneveld
Published: Thursday, November 18, 2010 11:55 p.m.
Updated: Friday, November 19, 2010 7:18

http://www.depers.nl/UserFiles/Image/2010/201011/20101119/thejols.425.jpg

The point of Ajax to what you can, but who you know. Because of your family, you have it.

Three years ago current chairman Uri Coronel, a report on Ajax. One of the recommendations, "an undesirable situation where the head coach in its sole discretion to appoint his own staff and take."

What happened to that report, nobody knows. And the recommendations it has not. Martin Jol has more than its own staff included: he has his own family empire built in Amsterdam. We present you: The Family Jol.

Martin Jol

Tottenham Hotspur Supporters sang it as though Martin Jol on the bench stood up: "To-ny So-pra-no! He is our To-ny So-pra-no! "It was not for nothing. Martin Jol seems not only by the Mafia boss who is the head of the Soprano family is, his behavior also mafioso traits.

Like Tony Soprano Jol relies primarily on his family: brothers, cousins, grandfathers and grandmothers - but also consiglieres, assistants and fiduciaries who over the years have assisted. Whether he was at Tottenham Hotspur, Ajax works or HSV: Jol does everything in his clan to invade the club.

Cock Jol

Brother Love is in the books as "personal assistant" of Martin. Cock (former amateur coach and German teacher) controls the agenda of his brother. But he also sends the facility business manager and his team (read: the terrain servant, and the wasjuffrouw ballenoppomper) to. The video analyst, the lady of the players' coach and the players reporting to him.

And oh yes, Cock is the personal driver of Martin. Every day he drives his big brother to Amsterdam Scheveningen.

Alberto Dussan

Assistant and friend of Jol. Jol was already in training when he was still coach of FC. Van der Dussen is responsible for Young Ajax. Coincidentally, that Jol took him to Amsterdam - he had just put on inactive as coach of the amateurs Haaglandia.

Michael Lindeman

Fitness Trainer. Also from the clan of Martin Jol. Was already working under the big boss at HSV. Lindeman introduced Ajax GPS trackers to the physical ability of the players check during training. Also good to know where Gregory van der Wiel night hang out.

Mino Raiola

Martin Jol does not believe in scouting. According to new players to get him through fellow agents. Behold: agent Mino Raiola Jols own. Mino was once pizza baker. Nowadays he does not bake calzones and quattro formaggi's more, but he does players. Ibrahimovic example. And Robinho. And Balotelli. Touched in the past because he quarreled with Ajax and Maxwell Grygera wegsluisde free transfer abroad. Barcelona now has a fight with because he Cruyff a senile old man named coach Josep Guardiola and a customer for asylum.

In Jols slipstream Raiola has returned to Ajax. Mino represents not only the interests of Jol, but of recent Ajax'aanwinsten 'as Marko Pantelic (already gone after a salary dispute), Ze Eduardo (who?) And Teemu Tainio (who?). And of course the agent of:

Mido

No, Mido is not fat. It's just those pants. They make you as a fifteen pounds heavier. Really. Next to his body in top Mido has two other advantages. A: Jol knows him from before. And two: one is his agent Mino oudpizzabakker that hot.

Mido Ajax earn a pittance. 3,000 per game he gets. This is slightly higher than the youth contractje where Tainio in the books, but still. Much is not. Hence by Mido Jol almost every week the field is pushed. That guy should still be somewhere to eat?

Mido but actually cost more than 3,000 euros. If he plays, it's a young striker on the bench wondering why a whale swims on its position. That is capital destruction. Mido is a symbol of the family culture that Jol has introduced: it's not about what you achieve, but who you know.

Thimothée Atouba

Left back with a salary of 1.4 million euros. Also an old friend of Jol (also played at Spurs and HSV). Guess who his agent is. Played just two games in Ajax 1.

Kerlon

And only one pupil Mino. Kerlon seal dribble was familiar with: the ball-oink-oink oinkend on his nose toward enemy penalty area. The Brazilian showed his dribbling skills with Ajax grand total of zero times. It seems that he has become injured. That's okay. Martin Jol has surely have another nephew.

http://www.depers.nl/sport/525347/All-in-the-family.html

RedScare

6th December 2010, 22:05

Who's at the top of the Premier League at the moment? Arsenal :) And yea, I know, the Man U game postponed means it's not really the same, but still...

Bandito

7th December 2010, 18:49

Football Manager position (Newcastle)

Premiership Football Club seeking top flight incompetent candidate for future failure/sacking.

Position recently vacant due to prior candidates over-achievement and showing too much competence/leadership.

Armchair pundits, alcoholics, and bi-polar megalomaniacs, with no prior footballing experience especially encouraged to apply. Southern accent preferred.

Short term contracts most likely.

Please send CV and 500 word statement how you plan to dismantle the team, alienate yourself from your staff and make a general mockery of all things Newcastle.

No Geordies, please.

* Location: Newcastle
* Compensation: Paid in Sports Direct vouchers
* Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
* Please, no phone calls about this job!
* Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.

Bandito

9th December 2010, 14:47

Saga ends. It's fucking Pardew. This is what happens when the deals are being made in a London casino.

http://www.nufc.co.uk/javaImages/4e/43/0,,10278%7E9257806,00.jpg

Wanted Man

9th December 2010, 17:46

How is a deeply mediocre manager like Pardew going to take the club forward? It's just silly. I mean, I'm sure he's not an awful manager and he should keep Newcastle in the Premier League, but I can't see how they're going to make any progression with him. It basically just comes down to the club owner appointing one of his cards buddies as manager. Weird.

Stranger Than Paradise

10th December 2010, 22:26

The Pardew appointment is certainly bemusing. Not that I think somebody like Martin Jol or Martin O'Neill are much better but they certainly would be more adept at building a club than Pardew who has proven to be a good part time helmsman who can help a club fight against relegation or something similar. He's a short term growth stunting solution.

Personally I think Hughton, someone who has been at the club for quite some time would have had better capabilities to build this team. Look at how Andy Carroll has developed under him. Tiote seems like a good buy on his part as well.

Andropov

23rd December 2010, 15:25

I was away from here for a while but in November we won the Cup, first time since 1994.
We were playing Shamrock Rovers in the Final, them having already secured the League Title and us having already won the League Cup.
This was the first time we had faced Shams in a Cup Final since 1978 when we were robbed by the Great Johnny Giles team of the time where they won by a suspect penalty.
We had lost last years Cup Final so this year it was finely posied.
It was held in the new Aviva stadium where 36,000 fans turned up to watch one of the most dramatic Penalty Shoot Outs in Irish Football's history.
What a penalty shootout, I remember watch it with my hands across my face and my heart in my mouth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF4TOI_CANQ

Rosa Lichtenstein

25th December 2010, 10:42

Fuserg9:

Had the same reaction with Devrim on this, i think this is the first post i see from you on sports

I have been a RevLefter for five years, and, to be honest, I did not know we had a sports section!:confused:

New Year's Resolution: Must get some new glasses...:(

I.Drink.Your.Milkshake

25th December 2010, 15:49

He only rotated 15 players this season, and, for the example, WBA fielded 20 of them already this season.

Rotation doesnt necessarily = a good team or a succesful season. Squad rotation, to me, is something that is only relevant to sides playing in Europe - you need quality throughout the squad, with players equally as capable as each other to step in to give other players a rest. For a team like Newcastle, who's only real focus is the premiership, continuity is the key to success. The team gets used to each other and gets to know each other's game inside out. It builds a strong team spirit and can be the key to winning big games such as Arsenal, Villa, Liverpool, Chelsea (in the cup) Everton etc.

The great Liverpool teams of the 70's and 80's sometimes used fewer than 16 players a season.

Bandito

25th December 2010, 18:01

Rotation doesnt necessarily = a good team or a succesful season. Squad rotation, to me, is something that is only relevant to sides playing in Europe - you need quality throughout the squad, with players equally as capable as each other to step in to give other players a rest. For a team like Newcastle, who's only real focus is the premiership, continuity is the key to success. The team gets used to each other and gets to know each other's game inside out. It builds a strong team spirit and can be the key to winning big games such as Arsenal, Villa, Liverpool, Chelsea (in the cup) Everton etc.

The great Liverpool teams of the 70's and 80's sometimes used fewer than 16 players a season.
Yeah. but the reason behind Newcastle not rotating the players is not that, but rather the fact that there is no cover for certain positions. For example, Newcastle does not have a left back but Jose Enrique, and it's been like that for years. Two seasons ago, when Enrique got injured, they had Damien Duff playing LB, which was ridiculous. Also, Newcastle have too many players that are never used, take strikers for example. Mags play with only one man up front, and Carroll is irreplaceable at the moment, but still have Xisco (50k a week!), Best, Lovenkrands, Ranger that never get the chance. They also have Ameobi who gets the chance from time to time, but he's useless.
Also, wingers.
Jonas Gutierrez and Wayne Routledge are the only classical wingers Newcastle have (if you count out crippled Ben Arfa), so they have to patch up that position with likes of Barton or Guthrie.

Bandito

25th December 2010, 18:43

Oh and...

7k1NN_XEHVc

Wanted Man

27th December 2010, 00:17

Who's the boss?

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Admin/BkFill/Default_image_group/2010/12/26/1293392662335/Rafael-van-der-Vaart-Beno-007.jpg

That's right. Way to return from injury.

By the way, what's with all the Italian PL managers complaining about the Boxing Day games? Surely they knew what they signed on for when they decided to manage in England...

Stranger Than Paradise

28th December 2010, 00:11

Put that spurs pic away.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/50593000/jpg/_50593112_fabregas_walcott_466getty.jpg

went to the game today. Brilliant finish from Walcott.

Wanted Man

28th December 2010, 08:31

Stranger Than Paradise

28th December 2010, 11:44

Great buy from Barca but he could end up stagnating a la Van Der Vaart or Hleb.

I'm a little annoyed as well, there was a lot of talk for a while of him coming to us.

ComradeOm

28th December 2010, 13:19

Strange move. Afellay is a quality player and Barca apparently got him on the cheap, but another skilful young attacking midfielder with great promise... really? I can't see any space for him in the current team and can only assume that this is either an impulse buy or some strange compulsion to own all the best young players in Europe

Wanted Man

28th December 2010, 13:28

I wonder if Afellay would have done as well as Van der Vaart in England. But perhaps an English club can buy him if things don't work out at Barça... More creativity never goes amiss. What I enjoy at the moment is that both North London sides employ this a lot, playing a few attacking midfielders most of the time.

Om: he was relatively cheap as well. Only like €3M, because he doesn't have much time left on his contract. PSV had to lose him now, or he would have walked for free. So I guess it's an impulse buy, with the impulse being, "Might as well give it a try."

Bandito

28th December 2010, 14:11

I believe that Guardiola knows what he's doing. The little I've seen Ibrahim play, I was not that omg-he-is-the-best-player-ever impressed, although the guy is quality, can't hide that. Barca's manager does wonders when it comes to finding the right players to fit his formation, but I was really thinking that he'd go and guy a descent left back, not another midfielder.

Wanted Man

28th December 2010, 15:03

He was done learning at PSV anyway, so he had to go somewhere, no matter where as long as it's another country. It's also been rather shitty, considering the current PSV manager's negative, defensive tactics. A while ago, he actually played Afellay on the right to add an extra defensive midfielder, because they were worried they might be overrun in the midfield in a home game against a relegation candidate. I bet he would fit in better with Barcelona's style.

ComradeOm

28th December 2010, 15:12

I wonder if Afellay would have done as well as Van der Vaart in EnglandVan der Vaart was the perfect signing for Spurs - he fills the creative role behind the lone striker and allows Modric to drop further back and dictate play. IMO he's been without question the signing of the season so far

What makes me curious about Afellay is that there's no similar space for him in the Barca lineup. Obviously they're different players - Afellay has huge promise but you wouldn't build a team around him just yet - but, unlike Spurs, Barca do have an abundance of talent in that area. World class talent at that. I do hope he gets on though because moving up to a better league is useless if he doesn't get game time

Wanted Man

8th January 2011, 20:20

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/08/stevenage-newcastle-united-live-fa-cup

Oh dear. :lol:

Bandito

8th January 2011, 21:00

Chris Hughton must be pissing himself.

Bandito

9th January 2011, 20:56

Pssh. I didn't even get the chance to see that game. :( Fair play to Arsenal though. This was basically the big test for them, wasn't it? Very well done indeed.

In other news, Ibrahim Afellay has joined Barcelona:

http://totalfootballmadness.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Ibrahim-Afellay-Barcelona.jpg

What do people think of this? Of course it's a great move for the lad, but I wonder how much he will actually play there.

I watched the Deportivo game especially because of this signing, and, judging by the first game, a superb signing in deed. He adjusted to Barca's style of playing completely and I recon a bright future for the lad.

Wanted Man

21st January 2011, 23:30

The worst transfer ever: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-worst-football-transfer-in-the-world-2189243.html

Money money money.

"Maybe Gullit read Wikipedia and decided that Kadyrov is a Mandela-like figure," wrote the Russian news website lenta.ru, with its tongue firmly in its cheek.

According to the Independent article, there aren't any places for WAGs to hang out. But that's disproved by these translated excerpts from a funny column on nu.nl, Ruud supposedly talking to his wife on the phone:

Yes, it's been decided. I've just signed the contract.
(...)
I have no idea what the club's name is. Wait, let me get those papers. Let's see. Ah, here it is: Terek Grozny.
(...)
No honey, I've never heard of that either. I'm not entirely sure what country they play in. Terekgroznya or something. The president's secretary only gave me a route description: to the right at the traffic lights, and then straight ahead for ten days.

"Of course you'll have your own swimming pool in Terekgroznya, darling."
(…)
"Sure, if that's how you want it, you can have your own beauty centre with your own hairdresser, your own make-up artist and your own botox wizard. And your own... Oops, wait a minute, my other phone is ringing. Probably another journalist wondering what the hell I'm doing in Terekgroznya.
(...)
Hello, this is Ruud. Look here: Terek Grozny is a great opportunity for me. This is a dream come true: I've always wanted to work for Terek Grozny. And I can really add something there: sexy football. Ruud-style football. Loose hips, empty words, deep pockets - hahaha! You're not writing that last bit down, are you? Good job, champ. See ya! (...) Okay Estelle dear, I'm back.

:lol:

22nd January 2011, 01:48

14 hours to go until the big derby....

Wanted Man

24th January 2011, 21:12

How did it go?

Yesterday, Ajax had the tough away game at FC Utrecht. Like many clubs, Utrecht consider this the most important match of the season, so you can always expect them to play at 120%. Ajax were absolutely murdered, and the only miracle was that the result was only 3-0. With financial trouble and Champions League qualification far away, it's once again going to be tough times.

wfAk2KNM1x8

24th January 2011, 21:31

bad....:( we lost and we are now 7 points behind.of course the referee discovered a red card out of nowhere and apoerl its steel the only team in Europe(Greece,England,Spain,Portugal,Italy,France and Germany) which for all this time has yet to see a player of them being banned from a game due to cards.We had 2 red this year so far both unfair...We have like 2nd-3rd most yellow cards and we are the team that keeps attacking each and every match(how is that possible?).Of course and the blame goes to some of our players too, which one of us lost a sure goal under the goal on his own dived for head and send the ball up...
Other than that, check Alerta stickied thread for the coreo we made(i think especially you will like it WM) and photos from stands.Also fascists of apoerl stabbed one of our fans in the streets but police decided to arrest 2 of our guys, 2 kids 17-18 years old cause we were just pacing slowly away from the stadium and they tear gassed us for no reason.They even threw tear gasses in the parking where old people and kids were trying to leave the stadium...Of course all of this with blessings of our "communist" and fellow fan president:rolleyes: who gived authority to police for full action against "hooligans"(i guess wearing a green shirt and waving h&s and che, palestine flags etc is considered hooliganism:rolleyes:)

Wanted Man

24th January 2011, 22:33

I just got a new wallpaper. ;)

Wanted Man

27th January 2011, 12:13

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/27/edwin-van-der-sar-retirement

What a man. :crying:

27th January 2011, 12:28

true, as correctly noted on the article, an already hall of fame keeper

Bandito

27th January 2011, 15:04

Messi fined for wishing his mother happy birthday:

Once Lionel Messi converted his penalty in Barcelona's 3-0 win over Racing Santander on Saturday, he pulled up his shirt to reveal a message scrawled across his undershirt. It wished his mami a happy birthday for all the cameras to see. A nice gesture from a grateful child to the woman who carried him around inside her body for nine months before enduring labor and allowing the world to be graced with his abilities, but also one that the killjoys at the Spanish football federation felt compelled to punish because of their strict rules against shirt messages.

Source. (http://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/blog/dirty-tackle/post/Messi-fined-for-wishing-his-mother-a-happy-birth?urn=sow-312467)

27th January 2011, 16:56

fuck this rules.they are only there to protect the sponsors in the most important moment of the game-after a goal.Fuck FIFA, fuck UEFA, fuck the football federations and their stupid rules. The game is OURS

ComradeOm

27th January 2011, 17:35

Metacomet

27th January 2011, 17:42

Kind of new here, glad to see a football thread :D

"My" teams are The New England Revolution (MLS), Barcelona, and Celtic.

Bandito

27th January 2011, 18:19

Terrible. I know that the Spanish FA has a bad reputation but this is just disgraceful. Worse than Piquionne getting sent off at the weekend against Everton (second yellow) after jumping into the crowd to celebrate what he thought was the winner in the last minutes of the game :glare:
Apparently Kanoute doesn't give a flying fuck about it.

http://futbolita.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/kanoute_palestine.jpg

:thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1: :thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1: :thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1:

bricolage

27th January 2011, 19:28

Terrible. I know that the Spanish FA has a bad reputation but this is just disgraceful. Worse than Piquionne getting sent off at the weekend against Everton (second yellow) after jumping into the crowd to celebrate what he thought was the winner in the last minutes of the game :glare:
I was listening to Five Live phone in after that and some guy called up saying how it had to be stopped because otherwise it would 'cause another Hillsborough'. Alan Green quite rightly replied that he had been at Hillsborough and clearly this guy knew absolute nothing about what had happened that day.

Wanted Man

27th January 2011, 20:45

It's total idiocy. It can get a bit annoying when players take off their shirts at almost every occasion, but that's not what the rule is about at all. It's just to make sure the sponsor remains visible at all times.

The thing about celebrating with the crowd is even stranger. What exactly is the rationale for giving a card for that? It makes absolutely no sense.

Wanted Man

28th January 2011, 14:30

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/ajax-playing-hard-ball-over-suarez-by-turning-down-new-17m-bid-2196513.html

I wonder how long Ajax will keep up this game. They have significant financial troubles, so some kind of deal might be in their best interests. But clubs spending €30M on players from the Dutch league is a rare thing nowadays, so they will probably have to settle for somewhere in the 20-25 million zone.

I'm also curious what will happen if Ajax keep refusing bids for Suarez. When FC Groningen refused to let him go, Suarez basically went on strike and took his club to court...

ComradeOm

30th January 2011, 15:22

The thing about celebrating with the crowd is even stranger. What exactly is the rationale for giving a card for that? It makes absolutely no sense.I have no idea. Crowd control or insurance? Madness

I'm watching the FA Cup as I type this and Neil Bishop (of Notts Country, a League 1 side) has just been booked after scoring the opening goal against Man City. His crime? Running over to celebrate with the home fans. He didn't even go into the crowd, just close enough to embrace them. A yellow card for that?

Rosa Lichtenstein

30th January 2011, 15:36

Wanted Man:

What exactly is the rationale for giving a card for that? It makes absolutely no sense.

It's to prevent a crush in the crowd. When Nemanja Vidic was pushed into the away (Man U) fans by teamates at Aston Villa a few months back, the resulting crush nearly hospitalised one fan. You could see him sinking under fifty bodies as he stood on the front row. It takes approximately 20 bodies (piled on top) to kill another human being in less than five minutes.

So, it's a sensible rule.

Bandito

31st January 2011, 19:38

Bye bye Andy Carroll. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/31/andy-carroll-liverpool-newcastle-transfer)

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/01/31/article-1352214-0CFE7240000005DC-973_634x345.jpg

35 million would be a great deal if I didn't know that this money is ending up in a casino.

October 8th 2010:

“All I have ever wanted to do is play for Newcastle. That’s been the case since I was a teenager, playing for the juniors and deserves, and it’s still the same now. Every time I pull on the black and white shirt – and even more so now that I have number nine on my back – it means the world to me so to be able to do that for at least the next five years is brilliant.”

Andy Carroll

31st January 2011, 20:25

Andy Carroll?pshhh :p
torres finally made the move!!though i hoped it would be out of premier league to be in a team competing(for real) sounds better.

Stranger Than Paradise

31st January 2011, 23:51

Andy Carroll deal is the new British transfer record?

Pretty crazy really. Liverpool have consistently failed in bringing in in-league players and I expect this signing to be no different. Bellamy, Pennant, Keane, Zenden all flops. I worry how Suarez will translate to the Premier League as well. The last great goalscorer from the Eredivisie to come to the Premier League, Aphonso Alves, was a massive failure.

As for Torres it's a shame he left Liverpool in this way. I had some respect for him before now.

CornetJoyce

1st February 2011, 05:56

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/dave_zirin/01/31/egypt.soccer/index.html

Manic Impressive

1st February 2011, 07:58

praxis1966

3rd February 2011, 16:41

Just watching the news this morning and people have written in complaining about football players wages and how they need to bring back a wage cap. This seems ridiculous and typical of society today, to blame the singular person instead of the corporations paying them. Instead of a wage cap a much better fix to the problem would be a ticket price cap and a shirt price cap forcing the clubs to bring down wages and transfer fees while making football affordable for working people again.

Agreed wholeheartedly... Anyway, I've just returned from self-imposed exile to ask you guys something. It's an image I captured from a stream of yesterday's Blackpool - West Ham match. Any idea why the fuck a Confederate flag is hanging from the Armfield Stand?

http://www.revleft.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=608&pictureid=7229

Pretty Flaco

5th February 2011, 00:25

ANDY YOU'RE A FUCKIN TRAITOR!
fdfjdsklfkjdsfkldsjfsdfklasjf
:crying:

Wanted Man

5th February 2011, 07:27

Agreed wholeheartedly... Anyway, I've just returned from self-imposed exile to ask you guys something. It's an image I captured from a stream of yesterday's Blackpool - West Ham match. Any idea why the fuck a Confederate flag is hanging from the Armfield Stand?

I don't think it means much. They might consider it a symbol of rebellion or something. Just like how in Dutch stadiums, you'll often find the St George's Cross or the butcher's apron hanging in stadiums, without any implied support for British imperialism as far as I know.

Manic Impressive

5th February 2011, 12:27

A few reasons I can think of

Could be an American living in England or on holiday

could be a biker

the confederate flag is sometimes used by extreme right wingers

It is funny how people like to display attributes of citizens of the No.1 global super powers. Like the Anglophiles from the old British colonies in places like India, USA, Australia, etc and now it's the same for the USA it seems mainly with bikers which you can see anywhere in the world including China, Russia and certainly here in England. It's not always bikers there is a nail shop on my high street called "American nails" or something I have to walk past the star spangled banner every day :cursing:

5th February 2011, 12:45

Lots of fans arent political aware or are apolitical, and even those that do claim a political ideology their knowledge is probably very narrow on politics.So we have seen flags like this, and many other recognized as political flags/banners/signs etc and the people waving them have small to zero knowledge what represents/means.

Wanted Man

6th February 2011, 22:23

What did people think of Chelsea v Liverpool today? With such a massive hype created over Torres's debut, the game could only disappoint. And despite the verbose commentator continuing to hype the game throughout the highlights, he couldn't hide the apparent fact that it was a pretty boring game. But maybe people who've seen it in its entirety can contradict this.

I also would have liked to see Suarez play, but apparently that wasn't necessary.

7th February 2011, 00:09

What did people think of Chelsea v Liverpool today? With such a massive hype created over Torres's debut, the game could only disappoint.

One of the reasons i avoided watching it actually, i had a feeling that the fact that torres played against liverpool would be the "highlight" of the match so i have surprisingly(:p) skipped this derby.I dont feel i missed much...

Wanted Man

7th February 2011, 00:26

One of the reasons i avoided watching it actually, i had a feeling that the fact that torres played against liverpool would be the "highlight" of the match so i have surprisingly(:p) skipped this derby.I dont feel i missed much...

Yeah, I only saw it on Match of the Day 2. Yesterday's matches were great, though. Interesting to see how badly Arsenal were disrupted by the referee decisions, but Newcastle also showed a lot of spirit. But Arsenal could and should have shown more discipline to defend such a massive lead.

One last note about the Torres thing: of course it sucks when your best player gets seduced by the rival's money on the last day of transfer window, but I think they'll get over it eventually. Torres wasn't born in Liverpool. He proclaimed his loyalty to it, but not undyingly and unconditionally. He never engaged in the insanely hypocritical badge-kissing that all those other players do.

Chelsea are a side that we all love to hate, but Liverpool's immediate response to losing Torres was to "bribe away" the star players of Ajax and Newcastle at the end of the transfer window (presumably, they already knew they were losing the fight to keep Torres by that time), just like Chelsea did with Torres. Of course they will boo him for a while, but I can't find much sympathy with the idea that the good and moral Liverpool were somehow robbed of their best player by evil Chelsea.

Luckily, fandom is an emotional thing, and a good Liverpool fan would never accept my reasoning. Otherwise, modern football would be even more cold and boring.

ComradeOm

7th February 2011, 14:07

What did people think of Chelsea v Liverpool today?Big games in the Premier League rarely live up to the hype. That said, I thought Liverpool/Chelsea was pretty enjoyable. Really interesting to see the tactical changes that Dalglish has made - its amazing to see 3-5-2 employed in England in this day and age

Bandito

8th February 2011, 14:46

I also would have liked to see Suarez play

He looked great in the one half he played for L'pool though.

Means to a end

8th February 2011, 19:27

Agreed, stupid rule the yellow card for celebrating with fans.

Why, I do not know. I would not look to much into mind, lots of werid and wonderful flags at English football grounds.

Bandito

9th February 2011, 15:29

Oh yeah, and...

http://soccernet-assets.espn.go.com/design05/images/2011/0205/tioteceleb20110205_576x324.jpg

Amazing.

Bandito

11th February 2011, 17:34

Biggest football LOL of all times:

In a bizarre case, Sparta Prague withdrew Czech duo Tomas Pekhart and Vaclav Kadlec and Croatian defender Manuel Pamic from international duty for fitness reasons this week - then fielded all three in a friendly against Zenit St Petersburg in Spain on Wednesday.

In an apparent attempt to disguise the players’ identities, their names didn’t appear on the teamsheet and the three wore jerseys with teammates’ names on them - Pamic playing as Jakub Podany, Kadlec as Pavel Kaderabek and, most bizarrely of all, Pekhart, who is white, as black Cameroonian midfielder Martin Abena

11th February 2011, 18:32

Good for them, and especially good for the players for agreeing doing it, cause without their agreement it would be hard to do that!:thumbup1:

praxis1966

11th February 2011, 18:44

Biggest football LOL of all times:

That reminded me of something Ferguson said after right back Rafael got his latest red card. It was something to the effect of, "I could probably still play him anyway. Just put his brother's shirt on him and nobody would know the difference."

Anyway, you guys were right about it the Confederate flag thing being apolitical. A lot of people in the States fly that thing with the slogan, "The South will rise again." The Armfield Stand at Bloomfield Road (where Blackpool play) is at the south end of the stadium. The stand was demolished in 2003 under the auspices of building a bigger one. It took them nearly a decade to reconstruct the thing, hence the tie-in with the "The South will rise again" slogan.

It seems to me they (the fans who hung it) might have thought they were being clever, but I can't imagine a worse way to make a joke. As a leftist who also happens to be American, it's about as bad hanging a Nazi flag considering the symbolism.

Big games in the Premier League rarely live up to the hype. That said, I thought Liverpool/Chelsea was pretty enjoyable. Really interesting to see the tactical changes that Dalglish has made - its amazing to see 3-5-2 employed in England in this day and age

Speaking of big EPL games rarely living up to the hype, I'm thinking this weekend's Utd - City match might be a disappointment as well. Something tells me Mancini's gonna park the bus just like he did at Arsenhole. Not that it matters to me much... I'm just hoping Everton can find a way to beat Bolton on Sunday; we might just sneak back into the top half of the table.

ComradeOm

11th February 2011, 19:15

I'd agree with you on the Manchester derby praxis. Not only will Mancini park the bus but Ferguson will do it as well. He always plays an exceptionally defensive 4-5-1 against the big teams. So I expect a snooze-fest. Which is a pity -this is the time to be pushing for a win against Utd

Disagree with you on Bolton/Everton though. This one will go to us Wanderers :cool:

praxis1966

11th February 2011, 20:18

Disagree with you on Bolton/Everton though. This one will go to us Wanderers :cool:

I don't think it's really a matter of disagreement... I'm not saying Everton will win, only that I hope we do. Despite recent results, Bolton are a quality side, especially at home. Besides, there's been a boon for Wanderers this week. King Louis, who finally figured out where the back of the net is, picked up a hamstring knock in training this week that's supposed to keep him out for the next couple of weeks. Fortunately, we've got Cahill back. I suspect he'll make his first start since the Asian Cup this weekend.

Devrim

11th February 2011, 20:47

King Louis, who finally figured out where the back of the net is, picked up a hamstring knock in training this week that's supposed to keep him out for the next couple of weeks.

Do you remember me saying he was injury prone.

Devrim

praxis1966

11th February 2011, 20:55

Do you remember me saying he was injury prone.

Devrim

Christ... I guess I deserved that. :laugh:

Bandito

16th February 2011, 16:49

http://www.hrsport.net/media9/_resized/0000000000407830_460_0.jpg

Brilliant.

16th February 2011, 17:05

http://www.hrsport.net/media9/_resized/0000000000407830_460_0.jpg

Brilliant.

searching for brilliant...
searching for brilliant...
searching for brilliant...

brilliant not found.:confused:

Bandito

16th February 2011, 17:34

searching for brilliant...
searching for brilliant...
searching for brilliant...

brilliant not found.:confused:

The guy on the photo is Rory Delap, a Stoke City player who is famous for his loooong and accurate throw-ins. He actually often assists from those set pieces and are those situations are practically better opportunities for Stoke than corners are. :)
1uaaWoTLuxw
Example of Delap's skill

Now, back to the photo. In the last game against Birmingham, the home team actually moved the ad boards more towards the sideline, making it impossible for Delap to make his famous 6-7 steps before he rockets the ball towards the box.
No dry towels for him to clean up the ball too. :laugh::laugh:
.

bricolage

16th February 2011, 17:59

Teams have been doing that for ages, it's nothing new.

praxis1966

16th February 2011, 19:28

Now, back to the photo. In the last game against Birmingham, the home team actually moved the ad boards more towards the sideline, making it impossible for Delap to make his famous 6-7 steps before he rockets the ball towards the box.
No dry towels for him to clean up the ball too. :laugh::laugh:
.

Yeah, I forget who it was (wanna say Birmingham) but there was a team who took to kicking the ball over the byline instead of the touchline in order to avoid Delap's throws in.

Anyway, who are you guys betting on in the Arse v Barc match today?

irfanlal

16th February 2011, 19:39

barcelona didn't won 9 matches in last yera and in 7 of those 9 puyol didn't played, messi never scored in england and guardiola never won an away match in knock-out phase...so these facts go to in arselans favour but I still think barcelona is the winning team tonight...but a draw would be a good result to...now I'm gonna watch the matche...

Stranger Than Paradise

16th February 2011, 22:36

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/51301000/jpg/_51301315_arshavin_466x282getty.jpg

YEAAAAH!!!!

Happy for Arshavin scoring the winner, he always said he dreamt of beating Barca. Koscielny was man of the match though, best performance for Arsenal yet.

ComradeOm

17th February 2011, 00:51

Happy for Arshavin scoring the winner, he always said he dreamt of beating BarcaNo, he always said he dreamt of playing for Barca ;)

Fantastic game though. Regardless of the result, which I had predicted would go to Barca, I wish these teams played more often. Great play from both sides

praxis1966

17th February 2011, 03:28

Koscielny was man of the match though, best performance for Arsenal yet.

Koscielny was brilliant... I personally thought it was a tossup between he and Wilshere for MoM honors; Wilshere really bossed the midfield, made a bunch of great tackles and passes and always seemed to be right where he was needed most. One of the announcers on the American broadcast said he, "would look at home in the Barcelona midfield." High praise for a teenager, lol. Unfortunately for Arsenal, I think they're going to need to play even better in the return leg in order to go through... A tall ask at Camp Nou I'd say.

EDIT: Been a lot of interesting results over the last 48 hours or so... Tottenham over Milan, St. Pauli over Hamburg, Shaktar over Roma, Schalke getting a draw and vital away goal at Valencia. Great stuff.

17th February 2011, 16:16

Brilliant game last night barca vs arsenal, of course imo guardiola lost it by taking villa out and putting in keita, i mean wtf man?why? the minute i saw that change i told it that valdes should prepare getting the ball from the net..but brilliant game nonetheless.
now on the other last night game:(:crying: i couldnt follow the game of roma, but saw highlights, we were a disappointment against a team inactive for almost 3 months!!!

Great result of yesterday though was.... Pauli kicking ass of Hamburg, i enjoyed that game a lot even if it wasnt "good", i felt happy seeing this historical win(dont happens often :() live, and ok game wasnt that bad!it will be good if we avoid relegation.

praxis1966

17th February 2011, 17:15

i couldnt follow the game of roma, but saw highlights, we were a disappointment against a team inactive for almost 3 months!!!

Out of curiosity, Fuser, what are the general politics of Roma supporters, the ultras in particular? I've always sort of gotten the impression that they had to be leftist since Roma aren't Lazio, lol, not to mention I have a hard time believing a guy like you would support them if they weren't leftist. But I dunno a whole lot of specifics.

On the topic of long throws in, I think Oguchi Onyewu of the US and AC Milan (currently on loan with FC Twente) might have something to say about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Awvk1EFfZ_g

17th February 2011, 19:55

Out of curiosity, Fuser, what are the general politics of Roma supporters, the ultras in particular? I've always sort of gotten the impression that they had to be leftist since Roma aren't Lazio, lol, not to mention I have a hard time believing a guy like you would support them if they weren't leftist. But I dunno a whole lot of specifics.

i dont really support them, its just an "interest", i only really support OMONOIA.
Now of what are the politics of Roma, ultra groups existing now are from different ideological backgrounds including leftists,rightists and apolitical which from time to time changed who is "ruling" and currently if i am not mistaken Boys are "in charge" who are nationalists.Things change though, and i have stoped following the global ultras movement, i have decided that i had better things to do(actually uni forced me to focus on it:(:lol:) so boys could even be disappeared now we are talking, but thats how things were since i last "checked".But italy and teams most of the teams have groups that can have and "fascists"(with or without ") and "communists"(with and without ") but all of them have apolitical groups that on lots of cases can be in charge especially in numbers.Roma is one of those that has all the tendencies, Lazio only fascists to apolitical, Livorno only "communists" to apolitical(some mentions of rightist groups existing actually, but i havent seen them "confirmed) and most of the others a mixed situation.