Did religion inspire your socialist views?

[Mahatma Gandhi]

Comrades!:)

For some people, it could be atheism. They feel that religion has done so much harm to the world and therefore everything should be based upon a strong, materialist analysis; they lean toward communism as a result. Others may be inspired ideals like social justice since they're at the receiving end. And so forth.

What I am saying: anything could have inspired you to become a socialist, even religion. In my case, my belief that man is conceived in sin is what made me accept socialism as a viable alternative. Since man is evil and wretched, he needs something to keep him in check at all times. Free market is like freeing the cages and letting the beasts out. Socialism, on the other hand, is about making sure that the opportunities to cause harm are greatly reduced. That way, man's sinful nature will stay within the narrow confines of his heart and wouldn't harm other people.

Bottom line, I see socialism as a civilizing force first and as an economic theory next. This is because I believe humans are intrinsically evil and can amount to no good; hence, socialism to me is more or less *Christianity* as applied to politics, economics, and to society in general. It is simply Christianity in another form, that's all.

Mahatma

[Raúl Duke]

Did religion inspire your socialist views?

No...not even atheism


This is because I believe humans are intrinsically evil and can amount to no good


socialism as a civilizing force

How you figure than that they'll be able to create socialism; if they're "intrinsically evil" how can they make a good permanent/stable society? People create society, and societies influence them. But if they're intrinsically evil than with such logic they ultimately can't do any good acts and they can't create this "good" "christian" socialism you speak of.

[Invincible Summer]

What I am saying: anything could have inspired you to become a socialist,

No shit.



In my case, my belief that man is conceived in sin is what made me accept socialism as a viable alternative. Since man is evil and wretched, he needs something to keep him in check at all times.

...

Bottom line, I see socialism as a civilizing force first and as an economic theory next. This is because I believe humans are intrinsically evil and can amount to no good; hence, socialism to me is more or less *Christianity* as applied to politics, economics, and to society in general. It is simply Christianity in another form, that's all.

Mahatma
That's a pretty abhorrent reason to be a socialist, imho. I think even Anarchists would say that it's even more authoritarian than what Marxist-Leninists propose.

[x371322]

Since man is evil and wretched, he needs something to keep him in check at all times.

I just don't see how someone can believe something like this. It's dehumanizing. It's demeaning. It's insulting. As Helios already pointed out, it's far more authoritarian than any political ideology humans have ever come up with. It's basically saying that we have to submit at all times to an all powerful, all knowing being, who watches us, keeps tabs on us, and punishes us forever if we do the wrong things. He's the ultimate dictator. I don't see how that equates to socialism.

[Mahatma Gandhi]

I just don't see how someone can believe something like this. It's dehumanizing. It's demeaning. It's insulting. As Helios already pointed out, it's far more authoritarian than any political ideology humans have ever come up with. It's basically saying that we have to submit at all times to an all powerful, all knowing being, who watches us, keeps tabs on us, and punishes us forever if we do the wrong things. He's the ultimate dictator. I don't see how that equates to socialism.

Instead of expressing moral outrage, why don't you take a look at human history and see how sick humans have always been? That's the context in which you'll have to understand this.

[The Red Next Door]

No, Its seeing the death and misery that capitalism cause, religion have a big roll in capitalism, that why pastors and preachers and rabis, etc are on the top of the pyramid of capitalism.

[x371322]

Instead of expressing moral outrage, why don't you take a look at human history and see how sick humans have always been? That's the context in which you'll have to understand this.

You mean like the crusades? :rolleyes:

Religion is one of the top reasons (if not #1) for the "sick" behavior of humans. Besides, if your god is really all powerful, and he really created everything, then that means he created evil. Ergo, it's really his fault we're so "wretched" and "sick." If God has the ability to stop evil, but doesn't, then he might as well be evil himself.

[leftace53]

Did religion inspire my socialist views? No, religion only inspired my anti-religion views.

Its the social inequality caused through conservatism that mainly inspired my leftist views. I got into the economics of it a tad late, and at that point, capitalism drove the communist view home.

[Conquer or Die]

Comrades!:)

For some people, it could be atheism. They feel that religion has done so much harm to the world and therefore everything should be based upon a strong, materialist analysis; they lean toward communism as a result. Others may be inspired ideals like social justice since they're at the receiving end. And so forth.

What I am saying: anything could have inspired you to become a socialist, even religion. In my case, my belief that man is conceived in sin is what made me accept socialism as a viable alternative. Since man is evil and wretched, he needs something to keep him in check at all times. Free market is like freeing the cages and letting the beasts out. Socialism, on the other hand, is about making sure that the opportunities to cause harm are greatly reduced. That way, man's sinful nature will stay within the narrow confines of his heart and wouldn't harm other people.

I would say that socialism is both a trap and a blessing. It's a trap because it's a way out for anybody for any greedy or selfish purposes to ***** and moan about anything. It's a blessing because it specifically and clearheadedly is the way forward against abject misery. The two meshed together and every socialist experiment has been one of mediocrity or mixed gains and failures so it's been rejected out of hand in the common discourse.


Bottom line, I see socialism as a civilizing force first and as an economic theory next. This is because I believe humans are intrinsically evil and can amount to no good; hence, socialism to me is more or less *Christianity* as applied to politics, economics, and to society in general. It is simply Christianity in another form, that's all.

Mahatma

It seems you want to use socialism "the state" to force people to be Christians. Augustine disproved this. You need to rethink your positions, in my opinion.

The moral imperative against Capitalism is as follows:

1. Solyzhenitsyn is probably the most notable moral critic of communism. His theories are mostly valid except he makes one major moral error: he claims in line with Aristotle that the socialist state is in the business of charity, but how can the state replace the individual with charity? According to Solyzhenitsyn morality must be on the part of the individual, which is accurate, but in order for charity to function it must have "the poor." Marxist and Socialist criticism claim that "the poor" are the "working class" who have wages expropriated, therefore for one to participate in capitalism, feudalism, or any other structure other than socialism is for one to immediately create the power to oppress, liberate them of productive power. It is immoral to say that in order for charity to exist there must be a system of unnecessary exploitation so people can voluntarily give up their charity. It's like saying that you're able to pay somebody to punch somebody in the nose so you can give that person a tissue.

2. Solyzhenitsyn disproved Tolstoyan Socialism and Christianity. Tolstoy said it was right to be oppressed and you should give up life under oppression. Tolstoy was Manichean and not Christian. Augustine proved why Manicheanism should be rejected. Ghandi disproved Tolstoyan socialism as well.

[Conquer or Die]

You mean like the crusades? :rolleyes:

Religion is one of the top reasons (if not #1) for the "sick" behavior of humans. Besides, if your god is really all powerful, and he really created everything, then that means he created evil. Ergo, it's really his fault we're so "wretched" and "sick." If God has the ability to stop evil, but doesn't, then he might as well be evil himself.

Evil is its own entity separate from God. The forces are in conflict.

[Bud Struggle]

Yes. Catholicism.

Specifically this:

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_15051891_rerum-novarum_en.html

[Weezer]

My religion isn't set any to orthodoxy, but has influences from Taoism, Buddhism, and Humanistic Judaism.

My socialist views actually influenced my (semi)religious views, rather than the other way around.

[x371322]

Evil is its own entity separate from God. The forces are in conflict.

So, you're saying God isn't all powerful? And where did evil come from, if not from the creator of everything?

[Ele'ill]

How you figure than that they'll be able to create socialism; if they're "intrinsically evil" how can they make a good permanent/stable society? People create society, and societies influence them. But if they're intrinsically evil than with such logic they ultimately can't do any good acts and they can't create this "good" "christian" socialism you speak of.


Yeah, If people were intrinsically evil we wouldn't even have the system we do now.

[soyonstout]

initially, my political awakening was "clothed in the garb of religion" or whatever Engels' quote about the English Civil War was (can't find it at the moment). I was a very religious evangelical christian (voted for george w. bush) and started learning about liberation theology which got me interested in political and social questions, from there I wound up an atheist left communist. i was even a tolstoyan briefly in between.;)

-soyons tout

[Mahatma Gandhi]

Yeah, If people were intrinsically evil we wouldn't even have the system we do now.

God's grace helps us do that.:)

[Franz Fanonipants]

My Marxism actually inspired my religious views

wowww

[Raúl Duke]

Yeah, If people were intrinsically evil we wouldn't even have the system we do now.

We'll be living in a nuclear wasteland where people will organize in death squads killing and raping one non-stop another alla "raiders of fallout 3" if humanity was intrinsically evil.

There's more to humanity that just "evil;" humanity/human behavior-motives is much more complex than that.