can communism ever work

[cristian12]

i hear people say all the time communism wont work it goes against our nature and stuff like that. Also my friend says we would need no emotional at all for it to work do you think communsim will work.

[Invincible Summer]

You're asking this question on a site for the revolutionary left.

[Qayin]

also my friend says we would need no emotional at all for it to work do you think communsim will work. We already don't. Capitalism in the 21st century has created mass apathy, look at all the damn TV light flickering when you drive down a neighborhood at night, or rising levels of psychiatric drugs people take. The pig system is killing whats essentially human.



i hear people say all the time communism wont work it goes against our nature and stuff like thatIs human nature a religious concept? Fuck no.
Is human nature exist? Yes, but lets examine the material analysis of such a nature instead of vague philosophical bullshit and the continuations of ideas that get traced back to the Garden of Eden.

Does human nature evolve due to environmental factors?

Compare the "human nature" of a human in a tribal society to one of a post-industrialized society. Our consciousness and our behavior reflect our society conditioning, our "social norms" which always change with time. Class Consciousness destroyed the barbarism of Feudal society for Bourgeois society. Did the loyalists and side sitters blame human nature for there privilege or inability to change things?

I hope that makes sense.

[RadioRaheem84]

Why doesn't anyone ever ask, can capitalism ever work? I have yet to see this great equilibrium.

[eyedrop]

Your question is a bit vague cristian12, could you specify somewhat more?

Here (http://www.revleft.com/vb/communism-would-never-t68361/index.html) is a link to a topic on the same general theme from the consolidated learning thread stickied at the top.

Not a very helpful response Helios+

[Invincible Summer]

Your question is a bit vague cristian12.

Here (http://www.revleft.com/vb/communism-would-never-t68361/index.html) is a link to a topic on the same general theme from the consolidated learning thread stickied at the top.

Not a very helpful response Helios+

The OP's question was "Do you think communism will work," not "How can communism work?"

Seeing as how the "you" is directed at all the non-OI users here on "The Home of the Revolutionary Left," the answer should be pretty clear.

I realize I'm being a dick about words, but it really makes a difference.

[bie]

Communism in its various forms and different stages actually worked in many countries around the world at different times. USSR, China, Cuba, Peoples Republics of Eastern Europe, GDR, Vietnam etc. ect. In all that cases communism did work. It provided and in some countries is still providing people with work, education, health-care, culture etc. The period of communism was the biggest social progress in the history of that states. Unfortunately communism as the ideology and practice also faces powerful enemies, all that are privileged in the capitalist society and who don't want to lose their way of life. Sometimes it even happens that they win a battle. But they cannot stop the history. Like capitalism followed feudalism, the same way socialism and communism will follow capitalism. There is no other option.

[Shokaract]

The Red Phoenix wrote a short piece on human nature recently that might be helpful:
http://theredphoenix.wordpress.com/2010/07/21/a-marxist-perspective-on-human-nature/

[Adil3tr]

i hear people say all the time communism wont work it goes against our nature and stuff like that.

People lived in virtual communism for 100,000 years as hunter gatherers. Native Americans, when they saw Columbus's capitalism, didn't say "This is great, lets be slaves for 500 years!" But seriously, if it was so natural, why did millions of people in hundreds of cultures fight tooth and nail to combat encroaching capitalism


Also my friend says we would need no emotional at all for it to work do you think communism will work.

If we had no emotion, why wouldn't we stick with capitalism? A post scarcity stage of existence built on compassion and collective action would require a lot of emotion.

[Weezer]

I still have yet to see a day where a free market capitalist society exists without government economic intervention.

Capitalism isn't exactly realistic either.

[mikelepore]

i hear people say all the time communism wont work it goes against our nature and stuff like that. Also my friend says we would need no emotional at all for it to work do you think communsim will work.

That's what the critics once said in reply to the suggestion to get rid of the kings and emperors, and to replace them with republics. Well, here we are, most of the kings are now eliminated, and somehow the public administration gets done without them. Therefore it's reasonable to say that the next historical step would be to operate the factories and other work places less like monarchies and more like republics.

[Thirsty Crow]

I still have yet to see a day where a free market capitalist society exists without government economic intervention.

Capitalism isn't exactly realistic either.
Anarcho-capitalist ideology dose not equate capitalism as a mode of production. That is to say, capitalism is realistic, in that it operates on a global scale today, and government intervention (or the formation of large corporations or even monopolies) is in no way whatsoever a signal that capitalism doesn't exist, or that it is waning.

But what is especially bugging is the whole idea of "X can/cannot work". Capitalism can work, as witnessed by history, and so can socialism and communism, but the basic thing to understand are the necessary conditions (and consequences) of these socioeconomic formations' "workings".

[Bubbles]

i hear people say all the time communism wont work it goes against our nature and stuff like that. Also my friend says we would need no emotional at all for it to work do you think communsim will work.
The best thing is to ask one self; will capitalism be the end of the road? We have been trough various different economic systems, why should this last until the end of mankind? Economic laws in capitalism points at that contrary, if we don't have any catastrophe erasing mankind before we have the possibility to develop.

Is there any data suggesting communism is against human nature? And is this 'human nature culture specific, is it genetic and so on...


I still have yet to see a day where a free market capitalist society exists without government economic intervention.

Capitalism isn't exactly realistic either.
You're doing the same mistake as the liberals, viewing capitalism from as an ideology rather then an existing system we have to investigate. But yes, capitalism benefit from government control in many aspects, but it does not mean capitalism don't exist, or don't work.


We already don't. Capitalism in the 21st century has created mass apathy, look at all the damn TV light flickering when you drive down a neighborhood at night, or rising levels of psychiatric drugs people take.
The fact that psychiatric drug use is growing is no sure indicator that people are feeling worse then before.

[4 Leaf Clover]

Isn't Socialism Against Human Nature?
Human nature is not something constant and unchanging—it depends on the society which teaches human beings how to behave and how to think. Yes, there are some natural instincts and desires that humans have always had in some form or another, but throughout human history what was considered acceptable, positive, negative or abhorrent has changed greatly. If you want proof, try looking in the laws of nearly any ancient religion. Today we would and do find many ideas in those sacred texts to be abhorrent and disgusting, yet in those societies it was considered perfectly normal. Human ideas are shaped by the material world around us. More specifically, they are shaped by society, which is in turn shaped by the mode of production, and the organization of classes in society according to that mode.

Thus there was a time when it was perfectly normal to buy and sell human beings as property, even breaking up entire families. Go back even further and you will find that there were times when child marriages and incest were also considered perfectly normal. They were “normal” in those times because the conditions of the era and society necessitated such behavior. These ideas became looked at as backward or even worse as society changed and developed.

Lastly, on the subject of human nature, it is often suggested by capitalist apologists that capitalism is in accordance with human nature, because humans are naturally selfish. This argument is as idiotic as it is fallacious. Firstly, if capitalism fits human nature so well, we should have expected either capitalism or a more capitalist-like system to develop much earlier than it did, with far less dissent and disarray in its wake. Second, humans, particularly as children, are selfish. Most of us understand that as we mature, we must learn to consider the needs and wants of other people. On the other hand, that maturity and ability to reason also helps us realize that we can often better achieve our personal interests if we work in concert with others. Socialism, for the working class, is in fact working for personal interests in cooperation with others.

American Party of Labor

[Qayin]

The fact that psychiatric drug use is growing is no sure indicator that people are feeling worse then before.
Your kidding, what class is probably prescribed Stimulants or Anti-Depressants.
Have a guess

[Thirsty Crow]

The fact that psychiatric drug use is growing is no sure indicator that people are feeling worse then before.
You have a hard, solid fact.
Now, you ought to place that fact within an interpretative framwork.
In other words, what would you make of this fact? What are the possible interpretations of growing use of psychiatric drugs?

[Jimmie Higgins]

i hear people say all the time communism wont work it goes against our nature and stuff like that. Also my friend says we would need no emotional at all for it to work do you think communsim will work.Yeah these are very common questions people have about communism. Personally i think communism works much better with "human nature" since humans didn't develop on the planet with a state and class hierarchy already in place. These things are new historically and capitalism is even newer - barely a fraction of the time humans have been around. I think it makes much more sense on a baisic level to have communism: you have full control over your own labor and cooperate with others - this is how humans lived for many many thousands of years although they did so in scarcity, not the abundance we have now.

As far as emotions: well when I'm at work I am not allowed to show many of my emotions. If my manager insults me I can no react, if a customer treats me unjustly I have to smile. The idea that men have no emotions comes out of the Victorian era - capitalism - not because it was natural, but having a stiff upper lip is a good attitude for workers to have if you are a boss. having a stiff upper lip means not complaining about job conditions, not empathizing with the suffering of your co-workers and so on. Capitalism is always making us repress our emotions and feelings.

[Bubbles]

You have a hard, solid fact.
Now, you ought to place that fact within an interpretative framwork.
In other words, what would you make of this fact? What are the possible interpretations of growing use of psychiatric drugs?
The increase of the use of these certain drugs can be an effect of a variety of causes. The increase can be caused by less tolerance against mental illness, things that where not viewed as mental illness before is now, new paradigms in psychiatry, new drugs and so on... But it also can be that people is functioning "worse" mentally today and before, but we can't just draw that assumption. It's like here in Sweden, people often say that we have one of the most suicides in the world based on certain statistics. What they did not take in their calculations was the fact that suicide is more taboo in other countries and not being put in the statistics but rather being viewed as accidents and so on... Statistics can be dangerous to draw fast conclusions on.

[ed miliband]

If it can't... humans are no better than ants or spiders.

[NecroCommie]

No, I don't think communism can work. I'm a communist just for the lulz.

[Leonid Brozhnev]

If it can't... humans are no better than ants or spiders.

Even Ants don't need their Queens. Spiders bow to nobody...

[Adil3tr]

Also my friend says we would need no emotional at all for it to work do you think communsim will work.

Capitalists act like people have no emotion all the time. "Well, not using Chinese slaves would be nice, but the average consumer won;t buy those products because they are more expensive" or "Saving the environment isn't cost effective" or "If people don't starve if they doon't work then they'll just sit on their asses forever "

[DragonQuestWes]

It can work if we follow along with Karl Marx's prediction.

You know:

Feudalism - > Capitalism - > Socialism - > Communism

[chegitz guevara]

If it can't work, I've been wasting my time when I could be a rich and powerful capitalist politician.

[-Strelok]

Communism would need an alternative means to abolish wage slavery.

Such as robots.

[Muzk]

Communism would need an alternative means to abolish wage slavery.

Such as robots.

what.

[-Strelok]

what.If you are successful in building robots to do most forms of labour - the each according to their ability; to each according to their need philosophy will be much easier to attain. Right now, resources dry out as generating resources in abstract is difficult within Communism, added by the measure with the way it is distributed.

[Muzk]

If you are successful in building robots to do most forms of labour - the each according to their ability; to each according to their need philosophy will be much easier to attain. Right now, resources dry out as generating resources in abstract is difficult within Communism, added by the measure with the way it is distributed.

lurk moar

[-Strelok]

lurk moarRobots are not really that much of an unrealistic goal as some may believe.