Socialism and Homosexuality

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Hello again everyone.This is only my second post on this site and as such I'm completely overwhelmed by the scope of Marxism.There's so much to sift through it's mind boggling.Anyway for anyone who read my last post they already know how I found my way here.As an extension of that I would really like to know which aspects of socialism apply to homosexual liberation (since I am gay).What groups or schools of thought fight for my peoples freedom?
Thanks for reading.Like previously please leave any suggestions that you feel would help.

[Invincible Summer]

All forms of socialism/communism incorporate queer liberation to varying degrees. Sometimes it's just accepted as a given, other times it's an explicit position.

[Paulappaul]

To be a Socialist is to believe in complete freedom of thought and Choice. It means the end of exploitation, whether by gender or race. Separation into Class and consequently into different divisions of labor, different races and Choice are a product of a society which seeks to divide. Socialism seeks to unite Class as a people regardless of Choice. By extension it means elimination of Alienation from all aspects of life.

Most tendencies have fought for, or uphold for Gay Liberation. It would seem (mind you this my opinion) that Anarchists tend to fight for lifestyle choices more then other groups. The ISO does alot of educating and organizing around the subject as well.

In the First International August Bebel brought the issue of Homosexual rights and spoke in favor thereof. Other First Internationalists also brought the issue of Civil Rights.

[StoneFrog]

In early Socialism, homosexuality rights was a very iffy subject to say the least, Engels himself was a bit of a homophobe. But i feel this was more to be with the social consensus of the time, and that Engels came form a upper class family structure. This was of course in the 1800's, but in more modern socialism it seems that almost all socialists support gay rights, if not all.
There seems to be a much bigger gay/lesbian community withing the Anarchists and Libertarian movements. This seem to be because the direct removal of all oppressive views by the Anarchists, even thought all forms of socialism support gay rights Anarchists seem to do more about it.

[Shokaract]

Some examples of current positions:

From a socialist feminist party's platform:

THE FREEDOM SOCIALIST PARTY IS a revolutionary, socialist feminist organization, dedicated to the replacement of capitalist rule by a genuine workers' democracy that will guarantee full economic, social, political, and legal equality to women, people of color, gays, and all who are exploited, oppressed, and repelled by the profit system and its offshoot -- imperialism.
...
FOR LESBIAN/GAY EQUALITY The revolt of lesbians and gay men against sexual repression and sex-role stereotyping is a key ingredient of the fight for women's equality and is equally revolutionary. Revolutionary socialism is the logical road for sexual minorities who stand apart from the bourgeois nuclear family and who wish to end the long, bloody centuries of persecution and terror. Because of their special oppression, lesbians are a particularly militant component of all social movements.
http://www.socialism.com/drupal-6.8/?q=node/16


From a Marxist-Leninist party's statement:

The Party for Socialism and Liberation is a newly formed working class party of leaders and activists from many different struggles, founded to promote the movement for revolutionary change.

Capitalism—the system in which all wealth and power is held by a tiny group of billionaires and their state—is the source of the main problems confronting humanity today: imperialist war, poverty, exploitation, layoffs, unemployment, racism, sexism, lesbian/gay/bi/trans oppression, environmental destruction, mass imprisonment, unionbusting, and more.

We are fighting for socialism, a system where the wealth of society belongs to those who produce it, the working class, and is used in a planned and sustainable way for the benefit of all. In place of greed, domination and exploitation, we stand for solidarity, friendship and cooperation between all peoples.
http://www.pslweb.org/site/PageServer?pagename=AboutUs

PSL, others face off with anti-gay bigots (http://www.pslweb.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=14206&news_iv_ctrl=1030)


If a party's news articles are divided into sections, you'll most likely see an LGBT section like this:
http://www.pslweb.org/site/PageServer?pagename=lgbtrights

[NGNM85]

Well, left wing politics generally places a high value on protecting minorities and equal rights, this trend tends to increase as you head towards the radical end. However, hatred of homosexuals is predominantly a product of religion, and Communism and Anarchism are both Atheist/Anti-Theist philosophies.

[Obs]

In early Socialism, homosexuality rights was a very iffy subject to say the least, Engels himself was a bit of a homophone. But i feel this was more to be with the social consensus of the time, and that Engels came form a upper class family structure. This was of course in the 1800's, but in more modern socialism it seems that almost all socialists support gay rights, if not all.
There seems to be a much bigger gay/lesbian community withing the Anarchists and Libertarian movements. This seem to be because the direct removal of all oppressive views by the Anarchists, even thought all forms of socialism support gay rights Anarchists seem to do more about it.
I never knew Engels was only capable of producing one sound.

[StoneFrog]

I never knew Engels was only capable of producing one sound.

lol, i suck at spelling so my browsers got a auto correction thing.... it screwed up lol =P

[ContrarianLemming]

Hello again everyone.This is only my second post on this site and as such I'm completely overwhelmed by the scope of Marxism.There's so much to sift through it's mind boggling.Anyway for anyone who read my last post they already know how I found my way here.As an extension of that I would really like to know which aspects of socialism apply to homosexual liberation (since I am gay).What groups or schools of thought fight for my peoples freedom?
Thanks for reading.Like previously please leave any suggestions that you feel would help.

Socialism is liberation of all humans, including gays.

[Kléber]

The February (March) Revolution in 1917 legalized homosexuality in Russia and the Bolsheviks kept it that way, although discrimination and homophobia continued as the weak, isolated proletariat lost its grip on state power. Soviet culture took a conservative turn from the late 1920's as the government came to represent the interests of an elite bureaucratic caste, separate from the masses and moving to the right. In 1935, Stalin's regime banned anal sex throughout the USSR. This reactionary law remains in effect; punishment for "buggery" is still 5-8 years.

http://books.google.com/books?id=GXSsgcs953cC&pg=PA160

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia#Pre-Stalin_Soviet_Russia

This is similar to how the bourgeois French Revolution legalized homosexuality in 1791, but the counter-revolutionary military dictatorship of Napoleon Bonaparte banned it again in 1804.

Other Stalinist governments like those of Mao and Castro took the lead and banned gay sex too. Today, though, most Maoist-Stalinists will say it was a big mistake and they are 100% pro-gay rights etc.

[Imposter Marxist]

The February (March) Revolution in 1917 legalized homosexuality in Russia and the Bolsheviks kept it that way, although discrimination and homophobia continued as the weak, isolated proletariat lost its grip on state power. Soviet culture took a conservative turn from the late 1920's as the government came to represent the interests of an elite bureaucratic caste, separate from the masses and moving to the right. In 1935, Stalin's regime banned anal sex throughout the USSR. This reactionary law remains in effect; punishment for "buggery" is still 5-8 years.

http://books.google.com/books?id=GXSsgcs953cC&pg=PA160

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia#Pre-Stalin_Soviet_Russia

This is similar to how the bourgeois French Revolution legalized homosexuality in 1791, but the counter-revolutionary military dictatorship of Napoleon Bonaparte banned it again in 1804.

Other Stalinist governments like those of Mao and Castro took the lead and banned gay sex too. Today, though, most Maoist-Stalinists will say it was a big mistake and they are 100% pro-gay rights etc.


Yup, cause Castro is such a Stalinist. Please. Latin American culture was very macho back then, it took time to break through.

THIS september Cuba is voting of legislation that would give gays more rights there then in the US.

[Kléber]

Yup, cause Castro is such a Stalinist. Please. Latin American culture was very macho back then, it took time to break through.
And what culture doesn't have a history of patriarchal domination and accompanying prejudices? This exoticist-apologist machismo theory of Latin American exceptionalism doesn't justify the crimes of Cuban Stalinism against LGBT people prior to 1979.


THIS september Cuba is voting of legislation that would give gays more rights there then in the US.
Good.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Cuban Stalinism.

lol Trotskyism.

[Kléber]

lol Trotskyism.
So do you support anti-LGBT legislation in general, or only when it happens in a Stalinist state that your parents don't like? Then again, maybe you "uphold" the gulag as some kind of kitsch S&M resort with free admission.

[Invincible Summer]

The February (March) Revolution in 1917 legalized homosexuality in Russia and the Bolsheviks kept it that way, although discrimination and homophobia continued as the weak, isolated proletariat lost its grip on state power. Soviet culture took a conservative turn from the late 1920's as the government came to represent the interests of an elite bureaucratic caste, separate from the masses and moving to the right. In 1935, Stalin's regime banned anal sex throughout the USSR. This reactionary law remains in effect; punishment for "buggery" is still 5-8 years.

http://books.google.com/books?id=GXSsgcs953cC&pg=PA160

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia#Pre-Stalin_Soviet_Russia

This is similar to how the bourgeois French Revolution legalized homosexuality in 1791, but the counter-revolutionary military dictatorship of Napoleon Bonaparte banned it again in 1804.

Other Stalinist governments like those of Mao and Castro took the lead and banned gay sex too. Today, though, most Maoist-Stalinists will say it was a big mistake and they are 100% pro-gay rights etc.


That's cool and all, and I acknowledge the importance of learning from history, but why does this stuff matter at all in this context? The OP seems to be asking more about how leftists today support queer rights, not what queer rights were like back in 1917 or 1945.

[Kléber]

That's cool and all, and I acknowledge the importance of learning from history, but why does this stuff matter at all in this context? The OP seems to be asking more about how leftists today support queer rights, not what queer rights were like back in 1917 or 1945.
Because history is the socialist movement in practice, not just abstract theoretizing about the bright future on a message board. On an internet forum where homophobia gets you banned, everyone from Anarchist to Hoxhaist holds hands, sings "Kumbaya" and claims to support LGBT rights. In real life, LGBT people have been imprisoned and tortured by "socialist" regimes which are giddily supported by some people on this website. This is important because some "socialist" countries still actively persecute people suspected of homosexuality, and homophobia should never be excused, it needs to be analyzed, understood, and combated even it if happens under the glorious red flag.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

So do you support anti-LGBT legislation in general, or only when it happens in a Stalinist state that your parents don't like? Then again, maybe you "uphold" the gulag as some kind of kitsch S&M resort with free admission.

No, I don't agree with it, just like I don't agree with Stalin's re-legalisation of alcohol. I was just referring to the absurdity of Trotskyist usage of Stalinism, must be pretty bizarre when Cuba qualifies - oh yeah, you've made it into your little code-word.

My parents probably agree with it such legalisation though. They don't really like it, that's why I'd never tell them.

Anyway, since this issue keeps popping up; any documents about whether the anti-homosexuality legislation was ever used against homosexuals and if so what kind of ways in which it was applied?

[Hit The North]

Lenin put it best. He said, 'We must be the tribune of the people'.

[Crux]

Hello again everyone.This is only my second post on this site and as such I'm completely overwhelmed by the scope of Marxism.There's so much to sift through it's mind boggling.Anyway for anyone who read my last post they already know how I found my way here.As an extension of that I would really like to know which aspects of socialism apply to homosexual liberation (since I am gay).What groups or schools of thought fight for my peoples freedom?
Thanks for reading.Like previously please leave any suggestions that you feel would help.
Here's the american section of CWI, Socialist Alternative's stance on LGBT issues: http://www.socialistalternative.org/news/lgbtrights.php
We are also very active in 40 or so other countries where we have sections.


The Struggle for LGBT Rights — New strategies needed


http://www.socialistalternative.org/graphics/spacer.gif Jun 15, 2008
By Kate Devlin http://www.socialistalternative.org/graphics/spacer.gif
The California Supreme Court’s recent decision to overturn the state law that banned same-sex marriage is another step forward in the struggle for sexual minorities to win full civil rights.
Like other minority groups in American society sexual minorities who are lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgendered (LGBT) face varying levels of oppression under capitalism. There is extreme hostility toward people who are seen as different, as many LGBT people report severe harassment, whether or not they are publicly “out” about their sexuality. A group monitoring hate crimes estimates that there were 2,475 assaults motivated by homophobia in 2005. This is probably an understatement. Many people know about the vicious murder of Matthew Shepherd, a young gay man who was killed in 1998 but there are many other cases of homophobia-inspired murders which are not as well known.

LGBT people can also be legally discriminated against. In 34 states it is completely legal for an employer to fire someone simply because of their sexual orientation. In 44 states it is legal to fire someone because they are transgendered. The “Real ID Act” of 2005, makes it much more difficult, in the wake of 9/11, to change aspects of one’s identity on passports, driver’s licenses, and other government documents.



In addition to these problems, working class LGBT people also share the economic strains faced by most working class people in our society today - the lack of affordable housing, decent paying jobs and the rising costs of transportation and food.



Evolving Strategies for LGBT Rights


The modern LGBT rights movement began with the Stonewall riots in the summer of 1969 in New York’s Greenwich Village. This occurred during the Vietnam War protests and the radicalization then occurring throughout US society. The event began with what was then a routine police raid on a gay bar connected to the Stonewall Inn. Unlike hundreds of other police raids against gay establishments, often involving a system of lucrative payoffs to police morals squads known as “gayola,” the bar patrons fought back. As word spread through New York’s LGBT community the crowd was augmented by a largely working class crowd which met the police brutality head on.



The events of Stonewall radicalized and galvanized the LGBT community. The “Gay Power” movement was explicitly socialist and was in solidarity with workers’ struggles, national liberation movements and the anti-war movement. Since then, as the broader movement and the Democrats have moved to the right, so has the LGBT movement.

Today, mainstream LGBT organizations such as the Human Rights Campaign (HRC), Lambda Legal, the Gay and Lesbian Task Force, and others have focused much of their en-ergy on the campaign for same-sex marriage. HRC has pursued single issue politics to the point of supporting right-wingers like Alfonse D’Amato of New York and Lieberman of Connecticut. While socialists support the right to same-sex marriage as a basic human right, we also see the need to broaden the movement to include such things as liberalized hospital visitation and free national healthcare for all. Socialists also advocate programs for affordable housing and living wage jobs for everyone in society, queer or straight.



The large LGBT organizations are closely tied to the Democratic Party. While paying lip service to LGBT rights and half heartedly supporting some measures like an anti-discrimination bill, Bill Clinton supported and signed into law the DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act) banning same sex marriage nationally and the disastrous “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy towards gays in the military. John Kerry, echoed the right wing’s call for “family values” in 2004 and while opposed to gay marriage, he supported gay civil unions to keep the support of gay voters. The same is true of Obama and Clinton today.

Organizing the Fight Back



Labor union organizations like Pride At Work, a caucus within the AFL-CIO, campaigns for LGBT rights in the workplace. Unions like the Teamsters have national LGBT caucuses. These are steps in the right direction as unions need to work to advocate anti-discrimination laws and fight for issues such as gender neutral bathrooms. Unions also need to organize against workplace harassment, all too common for LGBT people. Single-issue politics and looking to Democratic Party politicians to end the oppression LGBT people face is a dead end. LGBT people, unions, anti-war activists, young people, and retired workers need to get together and run our own candidates, challenging corporate politicians of both parties. Under capitalism any rights won through workers’ struggles can be taken away. The LGBT movement needs to join in the struggle of the working class to ensure that all individuals and families, whether they’re straight, gay, married, or non-traditional, have control over the economic issues facing their lives.

[commie 13]

as i understand Karl Marx always spook about peace and rights to all. so i guess that would mean he ment everyone had all rights including gays/lesbians.

[Zanthorus]

absurdity of Trotskyist usage of Stalinism, must be pretty bizarre when Cuba qualifies

I think most of the time when "stalinism" is mentionted what is actually meant is "official communism" which descends from the Stalinised comintern rather than ideological adherence to Stalin's legacy per se.

[Invincible Summer]

Because history is the socialist movement in practice, not just abstract theoretizing about the bright future on a message board. On an internet forum where homophobia gets you banned, everyone from Anarchist to Hoxhaist holds hands, sings "Kumbaya" and claims to support LGBT rights. In real life, LGBT people have been imprisoned and tortured by "socialist" regimes which are giddily supported by some people on this website. This is important because some "socialist" countries still actively persecute people suspected of homosexuality, and homophobia should never be excused, it needs to be analyzed, understood, and combated even it if happens under the glorious red flag.

So how does talking about anti-homosexuality laws of the USSR help change state-enforced homophobia today?