Who is Your Favorite "Closet" Communist or Socialist?

[Adil3tr]

Who is Your Favorite "Closet" Communist or Socialist? Who is your favorite famous person whose socialism has been hidden by mainstream society?

My favorite is Helen Keller. If you read her archive at marxist.org, you'll realize she was as radical as any of us.

[Terminator X]

Barack Obama.

Oh wait....

[theAnarch]

Despite giving in to pressure from mcarthyism Langston Hughes is one HG Wells who apparently hid political meaning in his stories is a close second.

I also love how the song this land is your land this land is my land was denounced as communistic when it first came out and now its played at every patriotic fuck fest with these lyrcs cut out of course:

There was a big high wall there that tried to stop me;Sign was painted, it said private property;But on the back side it didn't say nothing;This land was made for you and me.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Land_Is_Your_Land#cite_note-5)and also:

In the squares of the city, In the shadow of a steeple;By the relief office, I'd seen my people.As they stood there hungry, I stood there asking,Is this land made for you and me?

[Jolly Red Giant]

Barack Obama.

Oh wait....
:thumbup1:

[Crux]

Albert Einstein.

[Andropov]

James Connolly according to our school education was apparently a Nationalist with some Socialist symapthys, as is to be expected when you have the clergy writing your nations history books.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Charlie Chaplin.

[Red Commissar]

Albert Einstein (http://monthlyreview.org/598einstein.php)

Even the popular biographies avoid that point.

[RadioRaheem84]

Seconded. Einstein.

George Orwell to some extent.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Glenn Beck.

theres only one reason why he is. that is to be a troll. hes purposely making the right look like jackasses. :lol:

[Comrade Gwydion]

Orwell's socialism isn't actually hidden?

What's his name, oh, Sean Penn. Oh, and what's his name.... Oscar Wilde!

[RadioRaheem84]

Orwell's socialism isn't actually hidden?

What's his name, oh, Sean Penn. Oh, and what's his name.... Oscar Wilde!

Sean Penn is iffy. Never seen actually advocate anything about socialism.

He might just be a liberal with some socialist sympathies.

Oh and Orwell's books have been turned into critiques of socialism by the right.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Orwell's socialism isn't actually hidden?

What's his name, oh, Sean Penn. Oh, and what's his name.... Oscar Wilde!
Oscar Wilde was a Fabian Socialist like George Bernard Shaw

[Tatarin]

Richard Milhouse Nixon, because he did some great stuff in... oops, wrong forum.

I'd say Oliver Stone, maybe he is not a full fledged socialist, but he had the guts to go to Cuba - twice - and make a documentary about Castro. Not to mention the interesting movie JFK.

[RadioRaheem84]

I'd say Oliver Stone, maybe he is not a full fledged socialist, but he had the guts to go to Cuba - twice - and make a documentary about Castro. Not to mention the interesting movie JFK.

Yeah Oliver Stone is a good one. Ed Asner is another socialist.

Tim Robbins too.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Sean Penn is iffy. Never seen actually advocate anything about socialism.

He might just be a liberal with some socialist sympathies.

Oh and Orwell's books have been turned into critiques of socialism by the right.

Sean Penn supports everything that Venezuela is doing & is against everything the US is doing.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Brad Pitt <----- :D

[Tatarin]

Brad Pitt <----- :D

Ha! He had his teenage rebellion just at the exact time they recorded Fight Club. What a coincidence!

[RadioRaheem84]

Sean Penn supports everything that Venezuela is doing & is against everything the US is doing.


Yeah. I think he might be a great socialist but keeps it under wraps to avoid losing work and being blacklisted.

Same with Tim Robbins who is actually a bit more vocal about his beliefs than most actors.

Brad Pitt? Are you sure?

[The Vegan Marxist]

Yeah. I think he might be a great socialist but keeps it under wraps to avoid losing work and being blacklisted.

Same with Tim Robbins who is actually a bit more vocal about his beliefs than most actors.

Brad Pitt? Are you sure?

Well, Brad is a bit sympathetic to Socialism. I don't think he's a socialist himself, but I'm sure he thinks about it lol.

[RadioRaheem84]

Well, Brad is a bit sympathetic to Socialism. I don't think he's a socialist himself, but I'm sure he thinks about it lol.


How so?

[Old Man Diogenes]

Oh and Orwell's books have been turned into critiques of socialism by the right.

And how does this make him less socialist? Just because someone takes something and distorts it doesn't mean the views of the person who wrote it change to match the distortion. For example just because the Nazis called themselves Socialists doesn't mean that their doctrine was Socialist or was what Socialists would have advocated. Anyway, Orwell is critical of a certain type of socialism/communism, Stalinism.

[The Vegan Marxist]

It was during a talk between himself & Bill Maher, & went against the accusations of us being Socialist & how socialism will bring down the country. He stated that he's been to socialist countries & said that we'll do fine. Not sure, but it seemed hinted. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows lol.

[RadioRaheem84]

It was during a talk between himself & Bill Maher, & went against the accusations of us being Socialist & how socialism will bring down the country. He stated that he's been to socialist countries & said that we'll do fine. Not sure, but it seemed hinted. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows lol.


I took that to mean, that he's been to a socialist country and we're fine, we will not descend into that. He made it seem like he's been to a bad country and we're going to be fine, we won't drop to that level of poverty or something. I didn't take it to mean he was actually sympathetic toward it.



“And let me tell you, I guarantee you these people [tea party members] have never been to a socialist country. I’ve been to a socialist country [and] we’re fine, we’re great.”



Last I read he was a big Ayn Rand fan and his wife is a libertarian. He strikes me as one too.

[Adi Shankara]

The Dalai Lama.

(trollface.jpg)

[Comrade Gwydion]

Yeah Oliver Stone is a good one. Ed Asner is another socialist.


Penn did the same, some article in the huffington post (or something alike) about his meeting with Castro and Chavez, very positive about both of them, though he does say he fears the cult of personality a bit.

[ContrarianLemming]

Seconded. Einstein.

George Orwell to some extent.

orwell called himself an anarchist and a socialist many times, it's not "to some extant" it's explicit.

[ContrarianLemming]

oh btw, Alicia Keyes said she was an anarchist.

[RadioRaheem84]

orwell called himself an anarchist and a socialist many times, it's not "to some extant" it's explicit. I was trying to say that George Orwell's socialist leanings are usually hidden to some extent in the media and in history and his books are used by the right as anti-socialist propaganda.

[Iskalla]

Would Billy Bragg count? Woody Guthrie?

[Invincible Summer]

oh btw, Alicia Keyes said she was an anarchist.

From: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/apr/15/aliciakeys.urban



Gangsta rap was a "ploy to convince black people to kill each other," the singer has claimed in an interview with Blender magazine. While most people see Ice T and Dr Dre merely as musicians prone to bragging about their sexual conquests, Keys insists they were instruments of mysterious puppetmasters who exist to perpetuate the rap community's strife.


Keys also asserts in the interview that the late-90s feud between east and west coast hip-hop was created by shadowy figures in government. The deaths of Notorious BIG and Tupac Shakur were part and parcel of this plan, an attempt "to stop another great black leader from existing," she told Blender.


Bizarre.

[ContrarianLemming]

From: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/apr/15/aliciakeys.urban




Bizarre.

Nothing about the US government is to far fetched.

[Invincible Summer]

Nothing about the US government is to far fetched.

I am a skeptic when it comes to conspiracies

[Uppercut]

Dennis Kucinich

[Ovi]

Pierre Culliford, creator of the smurfs.

[Delenda Carthago]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=964rEJ8KsoI

I heard that shit avout Alicia Keys a couple of months ago.I heard she helped a guy who got arrested outside the RNC.

I dont know though...

[Sasha]

arthur miller: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Miller

[Invincible Summer]

964rEJ8KsoI



Uh so, does he think that Obama is a socialist? Also, what country did he go to that was "socialist?" I hope it's not Sweden or something silly like that

[Delenda Carthago]

Uh so, does he think that Obama is a socialist? Also, what country did he go to that was "socialist?" I hope it's not Sweden or something silly like that
dude,how the fuck should I know?I didnt knew he was "pro socialist" 10 minutes ago!

[Q]

Konrad.

(No, I don't really expect anyone to get that one).

[Comrade Marxist Bro]

This inspirational American man:

http://recollectionbooks.com/bleed/images/BB/commie2.jpg

[fa2991]

Oscar Wilde was a Fabian Socialist like George Bernard Shaw

Oscar was an anarcho-communist who once referred to Kropotkin as the "white Christ from Russia."

Shaw was a Stalin-sympathizing Marxist.

[fa2991]

xoKbDNY0Zwg

[RedHal]

a bunch of champagne socialists and social democrats listed....

Yeah orwell, such an admirer of socialism that he ratted out communists to the british intelligence! Why not list Elia Kazan as one of your favorite "closet" commie/socialist!

[RATM-Eubie]

George Orwell, Charlie Chaplin, Albert Einstein, Sean Penn

[Pretty Flaco]

John Steinbeck.

[Barry Lyndon]

"There must be a better distribution of wealth and maybe America must move toward a Democratic Socialism."-Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., 1966.

"A nation that will keep people in slavery for 244 years will 'thingify' them – make them things. Therefore they will exploit them, and poor people generally, economically. And a nation that will exploit economically will have to have foreign investments and everything else, and will have to use its military might to protect them. All of these problems are tied together"-MLK, to a meeting of Southern Christian Leadership Council, 1967.

[Barry Lyndon]

He's not a socialist himself, but someone with Marxist alliances and sympathies, Nelson Mandela:
http://www.hnp.org.za/site/uploads/pics/Mandela-Castro.jpg

[Os Cangaceiros]

Alicia Keys. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/apr/15/aliciakeys.urban)

EDIT: Oh shit, she's already been mentioned by AttackGr.

[fa2991]

He's not a socialist himself, but someone with Marxist alliances and sympathies, Nelson Mandela:
http://www.hnp.org.za/site/uploads/pics/Mandela-Castro.jpg

Isn't he a prominent figure in the South African Communist Party?

[Chimurenga.]

"There must be a better distribution of wealth and maybe America must move toward a Democratic Socialism."-Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., 1966.

"A nation that will keep people in slavery for 244 years will 'thingify' them – make them things. Therefore they will exploit them, and poor people generally, economically. And a nation that will exploit economically will have to have foreign investments and everything else, and will have to use its military might to protect them. All of these problems are tied together"-MLK, to a meeting of Southern Christian Leadership Council, 1967.

I was talking to a comrade about this a few weeks ago. We both agreed that had MLK been alive for a few more years, he would've been way more radical.

[Iskalla]

Oo Jarvis Cocker :)

[Crux]

Shaw was a Stalin-sympathizing Marxist.
And a Fabian reformist. hey, it's not like Stalin sympathies was that rare in the reformist mileu in Brittain.
Nelson Mandela was always in teh ANC as far as I know, and, I think, he could have once been described as a socialist.

[AK]

RUDDY!
http://www.resist.com/updates/2009/APR_09/RuddKevinOzFlake0.jpg

[AK]

Nothing about the US government is to far fetched.
http://overlordsofchaos.com/assets/images/NWO.jpg
Could you repeat that, please?

[RadioRaheem84]

Alicia Keys. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/apr/15/aliciakeys.urban)

EDIT: Oh shit, she's already been mentioned by AttackGr.


I'm in love. :wub:

Well, I hope she at least reads Durruti. But I doubt it. She campaigned for Obama and was in Diddy's Vote or Die bullshit. She seems more like a confused liberal wannbe anarchist, ala NGN.

[MortyMingledon]

The Marquis de Sade is my favorite closet anarchist (or atleast he isn't often regarded as an anarchist these days). He attacked private property and class distinctions as the root cause of all misery (read his Aline et Valcour). He also stated that "the reign of law is... inferior to anarchy" (read Geoffrey Gorer's The Life and Ides of Marquis de Sade). He believed the human desire to dominate should be translated into sexual play instead of economic and social oppression (probably the main reason he is so awesome ;) )

[RedSonRising]

Squidward :laugh:

http://cdn.static.ovimg.com/episode/817161.jpg

Words from the labor pioneer himself:

"The gentle laborer shall no longer suffer from the noxious greed of Mr. Krabs!"

"We will dismantle oppression board by board! We'll saw the foundation of big business in half! Even if it takes half eternity!"

"With your support, we will send the hammer of the people's will crashing through the windows of Mr. Krabs' house of servitude!"

(In the twilight of his life of rebellion, he reminisces with a sad cynicism that speaks a measure of truth to us):

"Nobody gives a care about the fate of labor as long as they can get their instant gratification."

[Pretty Flaco]

Squidward :laugh:

http://cdn.static.ovimg.com/episode/817161.jpg

Words from the labor pioneer himself:

"The gentle laborer shall no longer suffer from the noxious greed of Mr. Krabs!"

"We will dismantle oppression board by board! We'll saw the foundation of big business in half! Even if it takes half eternity!"

"With your support, we will send the hammer of the people's will crashing through the windows of Mr. Krabs' house of servitude!"

(In the twilight of his life of rebellion, he reminisces with a sad cynicism that speaks a measure of truth to us):

"Nobody gives a care about the fate of labor as long as they can get their instant gratification."

My little brother was watching that yesterday and I couldn't help but think, "Oh, Squidward is such a socialist." :rolleyes:

[maskerade]

2pac!

[~Spectre]

Lil Wayne:

I am the Hip-Hop socialist!

[RedSonRising]

Oh, and how could I forget. Good ol' Iron Mike!

http://thepeoplescube.com/images/Mike_Che_Tyson_sm.jpghttp://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/media/Mike_Mao_Tyson_sm.jpg

[Wakizashi the Bolshevik]

Pablo Picasso, although I'm not particularly fond of his paintings.

[RadioRaheem84]

How come it's OK for Nelson Mandela to say Quadafi was his friend as was the USSR on national TV, without being called a Stalinist?

[Obs]

Yeah orwell, such an admirer of socialism that he ratted out communists to the british intelligence! Why not list Elia Kazan as one of your favorite "closet" commie/socialist!
Yeah, let's do this one again.

[Stephen Colbert]

Glenn Beck is my favorite closet communist. He's a self-hating McCarthyist to be honest. He explains the interrelation of things that have literally almost no relevance and tries to charade it as a leftist conspiracy.Its a disingenuous attempt to turn people off from Communism and Marxism so that Beck can further study it and mythologize himself in revolutionary history(among few and not many) and become a subversive himself. its genius.


"But you wont hear about it in the Main stream media" :laugh:

[Crux]

How come it's OK for Nelson Mandela to say Quadafi was his friend as was the USSR on national TV, without being called a Stalinist?
It is?

[LeninBalls]

It is?

Nelson Mandela is a Stalinist.

We ok now mang'?

[Bombay]

Wasn't Matt Damon a good friend with Howard Zinn? He's my favorite.

[Stephen Colbert]

Robin hood

[Jolly Red Giant]

Lao Tzu

[Crux]

Lao Tzu
Really?

[RadioRaheem84]

I don't know what to think about Matt Damon. He seems liberal but also endorsed Zinn and Chomsky in his film Good Will Hunting. :confused:

Green Zone was also probably the most "anti-American" war movie of this century to date.

[Crux]

I don't know what to think about Matt Damon. He seems liberal but also endorsed Zinn and Chomsky in his film Good Will Hunting. :confused:

Green Zone was also probably the most "anti-American" war movie of this century to date.
closet commie perhaps?

[Coggeh]

Einstein.. and maybe tupac :listen to Panther

[Jolly Red Giant]

Really?
you better believe it - closet communist if ever their was one.

A two-thousand year old historical materialist.

[MortyMingledon]

How about Jesus? idk much about him, but I've heard many claim that he wanted some kind of economically equal society, especially our good friend Tolstoy. Didn't early christian communities practice some kind of collectivist resource management?

[RED DAVE]

Caesar Romero (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar_Romero) :D

RED DAVE

[RadioRaheem84]

Well according to Michael Parenti, Julius Caeser was a fledging Democrat not the total tyrant he's made out to be. Apparently his assasins, who are held as the republican heroes, were really oligarchs who rose against Caeser for his distributive policies.

[welshexile1963]

Would Billy Bragg count? Woody Guthrie?

I dont think either are "Closet" Socialists they are both out there imho :)

[RED DAVE]

Robin hoodThe real story of Robin Hood.

http://www.onthemedia.org/transcripts/2010/07/23/08

RED DAVE

[MellowViper]

Jesus Christ

http://truthvanguard.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/comrade-jesus.jpg

Acts 2:45 And they sold their possessions and goods and distributed them to all, according as anyone had need.
Acts 4:32-35 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, and laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

"It is easier for a camel to squeeze through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to get into the kingdom of God."

[Oswy]

Gene Roddenberry.

Ok, that's a guess, but Star Trek has always struck me as much more a socialist vision of the future than a capitalist one. Post-nationalism, post-discrimination, post-accumulation, post-capitalist-style-individualism and a world in which the thirst for knowledge, cooperation and a desire to make new friends on equal terms are central themes.

In one of the Star Trek films we even have Mr Spock sacrificing his life for the crew with the words "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

[EvilRedGuy]

George Orwell. Jesus. Bruce Lee.

[Oswy]

George Orwell. Bruce Lee.

Bruce Lee? That is...AWESOME!

I spent at least two of my teenage years wanting to be Bruce Lee.

[EvilRedGuy]

You're not the only one. :)

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

Obama ;)

[RadioRaheem84]

John Sayles.

[Magón]

Since people have said Orwell, I'll go with Jack London... (The Iron Heel anyone? :))

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

Despite giving in to pressure from mcarthyism Langston Hughes is one HG Wells who apparently hid political meaning in his stories is a close second.

I also love how the song this land is your land this land is my land was denounced as communistic when it first came out and now its played at every patriotic fuck fest with these lyrcs cut out of course:

There was a big high wall there that tried to stop me;Sign was painted, it said private property;But on the back side it didn't say nothing;This land was made for you and me.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Land_Is_Your_Land#cite_note-5)and also:

In the squares of the city, In the shadow of a steeple;By the relief office, I'd seen my people.As they stood there hungry, I stood there asking,Is this land made for you and me?

Yeah woody guthrie is great, especially his 30s dustbowl stuff, in my opinion.

[cyu]

Jesus Christ

http://truthvanguard.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/comrade-jesus.jpg

Acts 2:45 And they sold their possessions and goods and distributed them to all, according as anyone had need.
Acts 4:32-35 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, and laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

"It is easier for a camel to squeeze through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to get into the kingdom of God."

Don't know if this has been posted here yet, but:
http://i.imgur.com/PTpOj.jpg

[Revolution starts with U]

I remember seeing a Ben Franklin quote where he said that no man has the right to ownership of land nor natural resource.

[Jazzratt]

It strikes me reading the last few posts that a lot of people have a poor grasp of what the terms "socialism" or "closeted" mean. This is evinced especially in people suggesting Jesus and Orwell, respectively.

[Sentinel]

Well, Brad is a bit sympathetic to Socialism. I don't think he's a socialist himself, but I'm sure he thinks about it lol.


I don't know anything about his actual views, but he has played some sort of anarcho-primitivist in at least two movies (Fight Club, Army of the 12 monkeys) which has always made me wonder about his politics.

If we by closeted mean people who most don't know are socialists, has Diego Maradona been mentioned? I'm pretty sure he's a socialist of some kind -- I've seen a picture where he shows his Fidel Castro tattoo to Fidel himself.

My personal favorite whose socialism I very much like to rub into rightwinger's faces is Einstein.

[Martin Blank]

Tupac Shakur, but he really wasn't a "closet" communist. We met when he was in the YCL in the very-late 1980s/very-early 1990s. Even up the end of his life, he considered himself a communist, and saw the whole "thug life" thing as a job. His last political project was an attempt to bring together big-name celebrities in the hip-hop community to launch a "Black Panther-type party for poor Black and white kids". Shortly after giving an interview about this to Covert Action Quarterly, he was killed.

[~Spectre]

Tupac Shakur, but he really wasn't a "closet" communist. We met when he was in the YCL in the very-late 1980s/very-early 1990s. Even up the end of his life, he considered himself a communist, and saw the whole "thug life" thing as a job. His last political project was an attempt to bring together big-name celebrities in the hip-hop community to launch a "Black Panther-type party for poor Black and white kids". Shortly after giving an interview about this to Covert Action Quarterly, he was killed.

In practice though, the thug life thing was more than just "a job".

[EvilRedGuy]

It strikes me reading the last few posts that a lot of people have a poor grasp of what the terms "socialism" or "closeted" mean. This is evinced especially in people suggesting Jesus and Orwell, respectively.

Orwell is a democratic socialist, im not sure what being "closet" means so i cant answer that. Jesus was for giving money to the poor, dont know if it makes him a socialist/communist though.

[Le Corsaire Rouge]

The greatest closet socialist in history has to be the man who oversaw the biggest wave of nationalisations the world has ever seen: ladies and gentlemen, I present to your our dear comrade George W. Bush!

:laugh:

[Martin Blank]

In practice though, the thug life thing was more than just "a job".

It wasn't to him, which was the point I was trying to make. He played it up for the cameras, just as he was expected to do. The reason he was turning to the idea of a political movement was because he thought the whole "thug life" and "gangsta" routines had gone too far.

[Martin Blank]

Oh, and I'm surprised no one here has mentioned Diego Rivera yet.

[~Spectre]

It wasn't to him, which was the point I was trying to make. He played it up for the cameras, just as he was expected to do. The reason he was turning to the idea of a political movement was because he thought the whole "thug life" and "gangsta" routines had gone too far.


The problem is that there's a line of people several blocks long that will tell you that sometimes it wasn't a job for him. He would be arbitrarily tyrannical to be people, associated with people that apparently felt like having a gang rape in the room he was sleeping in, and was generally an asshole.

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

Groucho Marx.

[Martin Blank]

The problem is that there's a line of people several blocks long that will tell you that sometimes it wasn't a job for him. He would be arbitrarily tyrannical to be people, associated with people that apparently felt like having a gang rape in the room he was sleeping in, and was generally an asshole.

And I would argue that those people either really didn't know him or had a vested (financial) interest in maintaining the facade -- and most of them are the latter.

[synthesis]

What was your impression of Tupac back then?

[RadioRaheem84]

For some reason, I would think rappers like Tupac would be crazy Republicans when it came to their money. I picture rappers to me more libertarian. They may preach some for better social services in their community but when it comes to their money, they're as right as a Texan small businessman.

[synthesis]

Tupac is known for a lot of reactionary shit, but I think a lot of it has to do with his attempts to make his message more relatable* to the audience he was trying to reach. In some cases you're right - look at 50 Cent, he initially endorsed McCain for president.

*Apparently that's not a word?

[Sentinel]

It's Che Guevara what I've seen.

I'm talking about this picture:

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/5715/maradonacastro2.jpg (http://img641.imageshack.us/i/maradonacastro2.jpg/)

I'm fairly sure it's a picture of Castro.

[Martin Blank]

What was your impression of Tupac back then?

When I first met him, he was a pretty quiet guy. His skills were only really known in the Oakland underground scene. But he knew his politics (well, sort of; it was still tinged by CPUSA-style tailism). His last foray into politics, near the end of his life, was a kind of redemption. He knew that he did some foul shit during his career (mostly at the insistence of Suge Knight and Dr. Dre), and he was hoping he could redeem himself by doing something positive for the community by being the face of a new movement.

[RED DAVE]

Marilyn Monroe

RED DAVE

[RadioRaheem84]

Tupac is known for a lot of reactionary shit, but I think a lot of it has to do with his attempts to make his message more relatable* to the audience he was trying to reach. In some cases you're right - look at 50 Cent, he initially endorsed McCain for president.

*Apparently that's not a word?

You're right. I do not try to hate on Pac too much.

I really try to listen to the lyrics and get a feel for the pain he went through.

Rap is hard for me to truly feel since I never experienced much of what they went through.

The American Experience though is one of crime if someone is at the bottom.

Because of the horribly low level of leftist outsources, crime becomes a major factor in the lower classes for social solidarity. More so than in Europe.

It was the only recourse for early immigrants, trade unions in their infancy, rappers to make a living until they made it big.

More so than any other industrialized country, crime is a major factor in the lives of the lower classes.

So I should not see his lyrics as so much a manifestation of reactionary views but an anger toward the status quo, a search for identity and real politics.

[synthesis]

You're right. I do not try to hate on Pac too much.

I really try to listen to the lyrics and get a feel for the pain he went through.

Rap is hard for me to truly feel since I never experienced much of what they went through.

The American Experience though is one of crime if someone is at the bottom.

Because of the horribly low level of leftist outsources, crime becomes a major factor in the lower classes for social solidarity. More so than in Europe.

It was the only recourse for early immigrants, trade unions in their infancy, rappers to make a living until they made it big.

More so than any other industrialized country, crime is a major factor in the lives of the lower classes.

So I should not see his lyrics as so much a manifestation of reactionary views but an anger toward the status quo, a search for identity and real politics.

I wouldn't say it's just that, though. I think it's pretty incontrovertible that poverty tends to breed cultures of machismo, from which homophobia and misogyny result, for example. If you don't go along with it, people might dismiss you out of hand. There's also a certain individualism that goes along with it; if you aren't gaining directly from what you're doing, people get suspicious of your motives. Regardless of someone's actual beliefs on this subject, they still have to consider the best way to reach their audience.

[Rafiq]

Glenn Beck

[Burn A Flag]

Does anyone actually have a source that Tupac was a communist? I would be very interested in verifying that.

[gorillafuck]

Sean Penn supports everything that Venezuela is doing & is against everything the US is doing.
This is funny to have as criteria for being a socialist.


Does anyone actually have a source that Tupac was a communist? I would be very interested in verifying that.
He was anti-capitalist, I think. Listen to "panther power".


I couldn't settle for being a statistic
Couldn't survive in this capitalistic
Government cause it was meant to hold us back
Using ignorant, drugs, to sneak attack

[IndependentCitizen]

My politics teacher, Conor. He's not allowed to be openly partisan, but he makes it so obvious.

[Property Is Robbery]

oh btw, Alicia Keyes said she was an anarchist.
If anything she's Anarcho Capitalist. I second Woody Guthrie :)

[Property Is Robbery]

Jesus Christ



Acts 2:45 And they sold their possessions and goods and distributed them to all, according as anyone had need.
Acts 4:32-35 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, and laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

"It is easier for a camel to squeeze through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to get into the kingdom of God."

Jesus was blatantly Socialist. Nothing closeted about him :p

[Oswy]

You're right. I do not try to hate on Pac too much.

I really try to listen to the lyrics and get a feel for the pain he went through.

Rap is hard for me to truly feel since I never experienced much of what they went through.

The American Experience though is one of crime if someone is at the bottom.

Because of the horribly low level of leftist outsources, crime becomes a major factor in the lower classes for social solidarity. More so than in Europe.

It was the only recourse for early immigrants, trade unions in their infancy, rappers to make a living until they made it big.

More so than any other industrialized country, crime is a major factor in the lives of the lower classes.

So I should not see his lyrics as so much a manifestation of reactionary views but an anger toward the status quo, a search for identity and real politics.

Part of what I like about rap music is that it seems to allow the expression of all the contradictions of capitalist society in a way that is more immediate than other art forms. Among those rappers who have genuinely emerged from, and been formed by, the worst effects of industrial capitalism, we see how its material and ideological effects are constituted in the rapper's life and lyrics; from recognition that the system is oppresive, unjust and corrupting to acceptance that grabbing as much money as you can and glorifying in conspicuous consumption of the symbols of capitalism is the only obvious way to rise above it. In short, many rappers are saying "yeah, the system of some winners and many losers is shit, so lets do our best to be among the winners." It's hardly an anti-capitalist message but it is one which, at least partially, reveals how the system is fucked up.

[erupt]

Jesus and Woody Guthrie are my personal favorites. Although, the comedian Lewis Black, granted he might not spell it out, seems to be pretty far left with his spoken politics.

A lot of people have thought this way over the years, it's common sense to most people. However, once you start labeling things like "socialism," "proletariat," "communism," and "fascism," the people shy way, rather quickly, claiming some authoritarian idea. If one avoids those words when talking, both people find a lot more "square feet" in their "common ground."

[Milk Sheikh]

Mark Twain
Lincoln
JFK

[RadioRaheem84]

Mark Twain
Lincoln
JFK

Twain and Lincoln I can kind of agree to an extent.

But JFK? You're bananas, if you believe that.

[NoOneIsIllegal]

JFK = hell no. He was fiercely anti-communist

Twain = possible...

Lincoln = doubt it. A lot of early American socialists (see: Eugene Debs) drew influence from him, and thought he would be socialist if he lived during the Gilded Age. However, Lincoln was a strong proponent of capitalism. He did not abolish slavery because it was morally wrong, but because of economic reasons. Plus, he wasn't even a radical republican (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_republican).

[erupt]

Not necessarily my favorite, but Pete Seeger was openly a leftist radical of some sort. Same as Leadbelly...he sang "Bourgouis Blues," ya' dig?

[hobo8675309]

glenn beck. actually, now that i think of it, hitler. wait, what's the difference?
(cmmon that was a joke)

[RadioRaheem84]

Speaking of which, what's with all the Goldline advertising on revleft? :lol: