Venezuela cuts diplo. ties with Colombia

[Rusty Shackleford]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/22/AR2010072203653.h (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/22/AR2010072203653.html)tml (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/22/AR2010072203653.html)


CARACAS, Venezuela (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/countries/venezuela.html?nav=el) -- President Hugo Chavez says he cutting Venezuela's diplomatic relations with Colombia over claims he harbors guerrillas.
Chavez says he was forced to break off all relations because Colombian officials say he has failed to act against leftist rebels who allegedly have taken shelter in Venezuelan territory. They produced alleged photos of the camps on Thursday.
The socialist leader said Thursday the United States is using Colombia to undermine Venezuela's efforts toward regional integration.
He says he doubts that Colombia's president-elect, Juan Manuel Santos, will stray from Uribe's U.S.-backed military policies.



for some reason i thought this had already happened when those bridges were blown up on the border. but the new colombian president sure is going to prod venezuela. i just hope venezuela is ready.

[scarletghoul]

If he's not harbouring guerillas, then now is a good time to start. The fascist Colombian state must be smashed on all fronts

[~Spectre]

The new Colombian government is under economic pressure to renew economic ties with Venezuela as they badly needed their business. Uribe has been lashing out at everyone because, at least in public, his own party appears to be abandoning him on the issue of Venezuela.

[fa2991]

If he's not harbouring guerillas, then now is a good time to start. The fascist Colombian state must be smashed on all fronts

I highly doubt that Colombia's coke dealing "guerrillas" could run things much better.

[Nolan]

I highly doubt that Colombia's coke dealing "guerrillas" could run things much better.

Yawn.

[Qayin]

I highly doubt that Colombia's coke dealing "guerrillas" could run things much better.
Yeah it isn't the CIA or government drug cartels its the FARC...

yawn x2

[~Spectre]

Yeah it isn't the CIA or government drug cartels its the FARC...

yawn x2

Nino Brown comes to mind:

nEGxoJWasZY

[Adi Shankara]

Colombia is what Venezuela used to be before Hugo Chavez came to power: a backward stratified puppet of the United States committed to enriching the "hard-working" CEOs and elites so they can take another vacation to Miami while the impoverished starve in the countryside (or would, if they weren't so many being fed by guerrillas)

[Nolan]

so many being fed by guerrillas

Do you have a source on this, and other work that doesn't involve blowing shit up and kidnapping rich fucks the FARC, ELN, etc. allegedly do in the countryside?

[the last donut of the night]

Do you have a source on this, and other work that doesn't involve blowing shit up and kidnapping rich fucks the FARC, ELN, etc. allegedly do in the countryside?

http://www.amazon.ca/Revolutionary-Social-Change-Colombia-Direction/dp/074532875X


This guy spent some time with the FARC. Very interesting stuff.

[RadioRaheem84]

I am still in awe of the propaganda model in the States. Apparently, Chavez, no matter how you view him is NOT worse than the Republic of Columbia which is very neo-liberal, utterly corrupt and crushes unions for corporations.

So basically Columbia = freedom, Venezuela = socialist pit of doom? :rolleyes:

Chavez just needs to sever ties with an obvious US puppet.

[Nolan]

http://www.amazon.ca/Revolutionary-Social-Change-Colombia-Direction/dp/074532875X


This guy spent some time with the FARC. Very interesting stuff.

That's nice and its going on my list of books to get, but Thomas Sankara claimed that guerrillas were feeding impoverished people so it doesn't really answer my question.

[The Vegan Marxist]

I wish FARC did do some kind of business with Venezuela though. They need each other more than one may think.

[GPDP]

Apparently, Chavez, no matter how you view him is NOT worse than the Republic of Columbia which is very neo-liberal, utterly corrupt and crushes unions for corporations.

Wait, I'm confused. Did you mean to say he's worse?

[el_chavista]

Uribe withdrew his ambassador before filing "complaints" in the OAS

Caracas, 22 Jul. AVN .- Early in the morning of Thursday 22, even before the ambassador of Colombia to the Organization of American States (OAS), Luis Alfonso Hoyos, submit their "complaints" against Venezuela, ambassador in Caracas, Maria Luisa Chiappe, boarded a plane to Bogota, convened by the Foreign Office emergency.

According to Colombian news media, this has been considered as an evidence that the government of Alvaro Uribe causes, in full consciousness, the breaking of bilateral relations on the part of Venezuela.

in Spanish http://www.abn.info.ve/node/6535

[RadioRaheem84]

Wait, I'm confused. Did you mean to say he's worse?Ooh good catch. I meant to sat that the us views him as worse than Columbia. Bad post sorry

[scarletghoul]

I wish FARC did do some kind of business with Venezuela though. They need each other more than one may think.
Who knows, maybe they are ? It's not like they're gonna be open about it if they did, is it. Really, I would be surprised if there was no elements of the Venezuelan government/PSUV helping FARC. Like you said they need eachother. But obviously it would be secret

[RedSonRising]

Hopefully COLOMBIA won't lag too far behind in a cohesive working class movement bringing forth a government that can participate in the Bolivarian alliance. Information and class consciousness is probably the biggest thing lacking within Colombian society. The third world cutting off the exploitative resource extractions of core countries is the first step to conditions degenerating in the first world and fostering anti-systemic discontent. Without strategic geographic cooperation in the whole of Latin America and elsewhere, revolution will remain lacking in the west.

[Adi Shankara]

That's nice and its going on my list of books to get, but Thomas Sankara claimed that guerrillas were feeding impoverished people so it doesn't really answer my question.

I was just saying, in many areas that Guerrillas control, they take care of the local populations because for the most part, government aid has been cut off to these areas, and it's not like the USA is in the interest of helping them either.

[Nolan]

I was just saying, in many areas that Guerrillas control, they take care of the local populations because for the most part, government aid has been cut off to these areas, and it's not like the USA is in the interest of helping them either.

I tried to click on your text, but it didn't take me to any source.

[Adi Shankara]

I tried to click on your text, but it didn't take me to any source.

This is even from a conservative source that they're transforming the countryside and that peasants trust FARC more than the government:


A recent survey shows that 57 percent of the heads of households interviewed have used or knew someone who had used the informal dispute resolution mechanisms provided by neighborhood councils or directly from the FARC. Moreover, 35 percent of the sampled heads of households attested to participating in communal public works coordinated by the FARC, and 68 percent of the sampled population within the clearance and conflict areas stated that they have used the health services offered by insurgent groups in rural areas. Thus, the armed insurgents have been legitimizing their occupation by institutionalizing their presence. In short, the FARC and to a lesser extent the ELN are well under way to establishing a state within the Colombian territory, not just in military terms but in political terms as well.


Judges are considered “corrupt puppets used by landowners and other powerful to achieve their ends” by 61 percent of the people.25 (http://www.hoover.org/publications/monographs/27194#note25)

so maybe I used the wrong nomenclature, but if they are providing healthcare, it's safe to assume they're providing food as well. I guess technically I was wrong, but they are still helping the countryside.

http://www.hoover.org/publications/monographs/27194

[Nolan]

Thank you, that's what I wanted. :)

[scarletghoul]

Yeah, it's a great example of a Protracted Peoples' War, even if it doesn't label itself Maoist.

[Nolan]

A recent survey shows that 57 percent of the heads of households interviewed have used or knew someone who had used the informal dispute resolution mechanisms provided by neighborhood councils or directly from the FARC. Moreover, 35 percent of the sampled heads of households attested to participating in communal public works coordinated by the FARC, and 68 percent of the sampled population within the clearance and conflict areas stated that they have used the health services offered by insurgent groups in rural areas.Why aren't they all lovable and cuddly like the EZLN? This is everything people love the Zapatistas for, right?

[RedSonRising]

Why aren't they all lovable and cuddly like the EZLN? This is everything people love the Zapatistas for, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JFiH_vdFXA&feature=channel

[pranabjyoti]

If the "complain" from the B****** Uribe-Santos Govt. of Columbia is true, then LONG LIVE CHAVEZ. I wish Venezuela will regain its ties with a NEW Columbia very soon.

[Obs]

6JFiH_vdFXA
Oh no they didn't let the poor primitivists live in the jungle and take up space that could be used, you know, productively.

[chegitz guevara]

Why aren't they all lovable and cuddly like the EZLN? This is everything people love the Zapatistas for, right?

Probably the kidnapping and coke running that the EZLN doesn't do.

[REDSOX]

This move by Chavez and the PSUV has been lon in coming and i hope the next step chavez is too nationalise all of colombia's business assets in colombia that remain. He has already nationalised some of them

[chegitz guevara]

I don't think he can nationalized assets in another country.

[Obs]

Probably the kidnapping and coke running that the EZLN doesn't do.

Yeah, god damn FARC for kidnapping officers from the Colombian army.

And why is coke running a big deal?

[REDSOX]

Colombia assets in venezuela i mean

[scarletghoul]

Oh no they didn't let the poor primitivists live in the jungle and take up space that could be used, you know, productively.
Its cool that you're defending the FARC but this kind of argument is terrible and borderline racist.

If its true that the FARC is kicking tribes out of land to control then that's obviously bad and we shouldn't support that. However we don't know the full picture, and I think in general FARC deserves our support.


Probably the kidnapping and coke running that the EZLN doesn't do.
Or maybe its because they're actually actively leading a revolutionary war rather than just chillin in chiapas. Not that I don't support the EZLN, but you know, the FARC is in a much more hostile situation and appearing cuddly is not a main priority. PoWs are what happen in war. And the drug crap has been discussed already.

[Obs]

Its cool that you're defending the FARC but this kind of argument is terrible and borderline racist.

Why is it racist to be against primitivism, though? I'm assuming, of course, that FARC's actions in this regard weren't based on the fact that these were tribal people, but rather that they were taking up land that FARC needed in their revolutionary struggle for an outdated and reactionary way of life.

[Nolan]

Probably the kidnapping and coke running that the EZLN doesn't do.

Ah yes. They're the bourgeoisies favorite group. They're a model for how to properly approach capitalism, namely sit in your communes with your tail in between your legs and masturbate to indigenous nationalism. It attracts the celebrities, you know.

[Nolan]

6JFiH_vdFXA


We only know if the FARC admitted it. Otherwise it's allegedly. Why don't you tell us all about the evils of Castro's guerrilla war from the perspective of the Batista government.

[scarletghoul]

Why is it racist to be against primitivism, though? I'm assuming, of course, that FARC's actions in this regard weren't based on the fact that these were tribal people, but rather that they were taking up land that FARC needed in their revolutionary struggle for an outdated and reactionary way of life.
They're not primitivists. A primitivist is a middleclass westerner who fantasises about living in the jungle. These tribal people live in the jungle already, not by idealist choice. I don't know their exact relations of production though, so am not sure if they can be counted as truly 'primitive' or whatever.

I dont see how it's not racist when you say 'these primitive tribals should be kicked out of the land so it can be used productively'. That's the exact argument put forward by the corporations engaging in ethnic cleansing in India and Latin America

[chegitz guevara]

Ah yes. They're the bourgeoisies favorite group. They're a model for how to properly approach capitalism, namely sit in your communes with your tail in between your legs and masturbate to indigenous nationalism. It attracts the celebrities, you know.

The question for the EZLN was whether to lose quickly or to lose slowly. In case you've not noticed, they get their ass handed to them on a platter every time the fight the Mexican military. They have absolutely no capacity to take on the Mexican state in a head to head military confrontation, and this has been demonstrated repeatedly.

We don't need another glorious defeated cause to raise a toast and wish wistfully of what might have been. They need to buy time and hold out as long as they can, in hopes of a general Mexican uprising.


Or maybe its because they're actually actively leading a revolutionary war rather than just chillin in chiapas. Not that I don't support the EZLN, but you know, the FARC is in a much more hostile situation and appearing cuddly is not a main priority. PoWs are what happen in war. And the drug crap has been discussed already.

I doubt it. The FARC isn't just kidnapping army officers. Betincort was not military. A lot of the people who get kidnapped aren't part of the struggle.

At first, the FARC merely taxed the coca lords, but why tax them when you can expropriate them?

The question isn't whether or not FARC is kidnapping people for ransoms and running drugs, the question is whether or not these have become the raison d'etre of the FARC, whether the FARC has primarily become a criminal gang instead of a revolutionary group. It would not be the first time its happened. Look at the Gold Triangle in Burma. Hell, according to Elaine Brown, it happened to the Panthers.

[Bombay]

Sure there is lots of propaganda/lies against FARC but I can't support a group that kidnaps or kills ordinary people, workers etc. FARC was better in the past and it really did fight the evil government but nowadays it seems they don't know what they are doing. Americans and the Colombian gov. have basically destroyed FARC or at least their ideology. FARC is just trying to survive, even at the expence of working people. I have been to Colombia and you really can't travel around the country whenever you want because of FARC. Maybe they are not as bad as the paramilitaries but close enough.

[Obs]

They're not primitivists. A primitivist is a middleclass westerner who fantasises about living in the jungle. These tribal people live in the jungle already, not by idealist choice. I don't know their exact relations of production though, so am not sure if they can be counted as truly 'primitive' or whatever.

I dont see how it's not racist when you say 'these primitive tribals should be kicked out of the land so it can be used productively'. That's the exact argument put forward by the corporations engaging in ethnic cleansing in India and Latin America

Alright, I'll admit I was a bit rash in my wording there. On the other hand, in areas controlled by a revolutionary government in a state of war, changes will have to be made to fight this war, including the relocation of some people.



I doubt it. The FARC isn't just kidnapping army officers. Betincort was not military. A lot of the people who get kidnapped aren't part of the struggle.
Betancourt was an anti-worker bourgeois politician, though.


Sure there is lots of propaganda/lies against FARC but I can't support a group that kidnaps or kills ordinary people, workers etc. FARC was better in the past and it really did fight the evil government but nowadays it seems they don't know what they are doing. Americans and the Colombian gov. have basically destroyed FARC or at least their ideology. FARC is just trying to survive, even at the expence of working people. I have been to Colombia and you really can't travel around the country whenever you want because of FARC. Maybe they are not as bad as the paramilitaries but close enough.
Why are you buying into the propaganda spread against FARC if you're aware that it's there?

[Comrade Gwydion]

I have mixed feelings about FARC, mostly because I realize every source I get about them is terribily biased one way or the other. (Although, usually one way.) I read one very positive article about their inner affairs in the National Geographic, wich is by all standards a normal western magazine, nothing leftist about it. However, this article was from the 90's, and according the propaganda, 'that was then, now they've lost it'.

At times I find that their tactics seem a little to brutal against innocent civilians, but then again, I really don't know.

[Bombay]

Why are you buying into the propaganda spread against FARC if you're aware that it's there?

People who live in Colombia know about FARC more than outsiders that only read newspapers. I have a relative who was once kidnapped by FARC. He had nothing to do with the war. He's a rich bastard and propably deserved it but still...:D
I've just heard too much bad stuff about FARC from ordinary people who's had real life experiences on them.

Of course there is a chance that I'm completely wrong and FARC is ther best thing there is, but I'll just trust my instincts on this one.

[pranabjyoti]

Sure there is lots of propaganda/lies against FARC but I can't support a group that kidnaps or kills ordinary people, workers etc. FARC was better in the past and it really did fight the evil government but nowadays it seems they don't know what they are doing. Americans and the Colombian gov. have basically destroyed FARC or at least their ideology. FARC is just trying to survive, even at the expence of working people. I have been to Colombia and you really can't travel around the country whenever you want because of FARC. Maybe they are not as bad as the paramilitaries but close enough.
Have you traveled to the FARC "liberated zone" and seen the reality with your own eyes or just returned from the capital and vomiting the trash here. In my opinion, FARC has every right to be "bad" to the paramilitary and their supporters. TIT FOR TAT. After all they aren't a pacifist organization.
RedSonRising, this kind of pictures actually can not prove anything without details. Kindly give the us the details with proper sources of course. In India, a lot of propaganda is going on against Maoists like "they kill adivasi people and workers", whom they are talking to be representing etc kind of rubbish. You can see a lot of adivasi people "murdered" by Maoists, but if you look into the real character of this adivasi martyrs, that will tell a totally different story. So, kindly don't just post pictures, be logical and place the facts.

[Bombay]

Have you traveled to the FARC "liberated zone" and seen the reality with your own eyes or just returned from the capital and vomiting the trash here. In my opinion, FARC has every right to be "bad" to the paramilitary and their supporters. TIT FOR TAT. After all they aren't a pacifist organization.
RedSonRising, this kind of pictures actually can not prove anything without details. Kindly give the us the details with proper sources of course.

I'm not against a violent revolution. If it has to be violent, so be it. But I don't think FARC is doing what they were meant to do.

This is Chomskys opinion (talking about Plan Colombia):

Another effect is that it turned FARC into just another paramilitary force, I mean, whatever FARC had been, it did grow out of peasants' concerns and demands and had a kind of political program that had some meaning - that all has gone. Now, it's just another terrorist force preying on the peasants.

http://www.zcommunications.org/interview-with-noam-chomsky-by-noam-chomsky

[chegitz guevara]

Betancourt was an anti-worker bourgeois politician, though.

She was a Green, which doesn't mean she wasn't/isn't antiworker, but it makes it less likely. She was anti-corruption, in one of the most corrupt countries in the world. Corruption doesn't benefit the workers.

But ultimately, it's irrelevant. She wasn't a military officer, which is what someone earlier claimed was who was being kidnapped by the FARC.

[Bombay]

She was a Green, which doesn't mean she wasn't/isn't antiworker, but it makes it less likely. She was anti-corruption, in one of the most corrupt countries in the world. Corruption doesn't benefit the workers.

The Green party in Colombia is really not "green". It's a neoliberal party.

[pranabjyoti]

I'm not against a violent revolution. If it has to be violent, so be it. But I don't think FARC is doing what they were meant to do.

This is Chomskys opinion (talking about Plan Colombia):


http://www.zcommunications.org/interview-with-noam-chomsky-by-noam-chomsky
Chomsky is a noted anarchist, he is good fighter against US imperialism, but I have doubt that whether he himself have proper idea about FARC. Has he ever praised any armed movement? To people like him, the state is the ultimate enemy, and those who are struggling to capture power are and doomed to be enemy of the people. After all, he isn't a revolutionary theorist.

[RadioRaheem84]

Chomsky is a noted anarchist, he is good fighter against US imperialism, but I have doubt that whether he himself have proper idea about FARC. Has he ever praised any armed movement? To people like him, the state is the ultimate enemy, and those who are struggling to capture power are and doomed to be enemy of the people. After all, he isn't a revolutionary theorist.

I am starting to have my doubts about Chomsky, period. Sorry didn't mean to divert the subject.

[Bombay]

Chomsky is a noted anarchist, he is good fighter against US imperialism, but I have doubt that whether he himself have proper idea about FARC. Has he ever praised any armed movement? To people like him, the state is the ultimate enemy, and those who are struggling to capture power are and doomed to be enemy of the people. After all, he isn't a revolutionary theorist.

This just shows that there is too much confusion about FARC. No one seems to have a proper idea about them. Why aren't there so much confusion about the Zapatistas? I'm an anarchist myself but I support them no matter if they are marxists, anarchists or whatever socialists. They are fighting for the poeple. I'm sure there are some propaganda about them too but they are doing a good job and it shows. I'm sure there are lots of good and honest people amongst FARC but as an organization it sucks. I personally can't support everything that is "leftish". I'm sure not all right wingers support the paramilitaries in Colombia.

[R_P_A_S]

I find it HILARIOUS really, sitting here reading all the criticism and insults directed towards the EZLN and even the stalemate FARC movements. Probably made my 16 and 17 year old.

I'd like to see some of you who are talking so frivolous about the sacrifices and struggles these people had to endure (and still are!) give up your entire lives to their cause. Leave behind your comfy computer, your revleft.com account and all that ideology that some of you hold on to just as bad as a crazy christian holds on to their bible.

smh...:laugh:

[Nolan]

I find it HILARIOUS really, sitting here reading all the criticism and insults directed towards the EZLN and even the stalemate FARC movements. Probably made my 16 and 17 year old.

I'd like to see some of you who are talking so frivolous about the sacrifices and struggles these people had to endure (and still are!) give up your entire lives to their cause. Leave behind your comfy computer, your revleft.com account and all that ideology that some of you hold on to just as bad as a crazy christian holds on to their bible.

smh...:laugh:

What i never

[Nolan]

Chomsky is just a petty liberal. He's useless to us beyond general anti-capitalism, just like Richard Dawkins is useless beyond anti-theism.

[RadioRaheem84]

Chomsky is just a petty liberal. He's useless to us beyond general anti-capitalism, just like Richard Dawkins is useless beyond anti-theism.

I am beginning to see that now that I reviewed a lot of his stuff. I can see why anarchists do rag on him. It astounds me how he can such liberal-ish things sometimes and detach himself from a leftist perspective. He really is only useful when wanting to know how propaganda works and how the State aids in the capital accumulation process.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Military Supports Chavez's Decision (http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/07/23/venezuela-colombia023.html)


Venezuela's defence minister said Friday the military backs President Hugo Chavez's decision to cut ties with Colombia.
He warned the neighbouring nation against provoking a conflict over allegations that Venezuela is sheltering guerrillas.
Defence Minister Carlos Mata read a statement on state television promising "a strong response" if foreign forces cross into Venezuelan territory.
Chavez announced Thursday that he was breaking diplomatic relations with Colombia. He accused Colombia, a U.S. ally, of fabricating evidence showing Colombian rebel bases inside Venezuela.
At a meeting of the Organization of American States in Washington, Colombian Ambassador Luis Alfonso Hoyos said roughly 1,500 rebels are hiding out in Venezuela. He displayed numerous aerial photographs of what he identified as rebel camps inside Venezuela.
Neither Chavez nor his OAS ambassador directly responded to Colombia's demand that Venezuela let outsiders visit the alleged camps run by groups that the U.S. and European governments label terrorist organizations.
But Chavez suggested that Colombian President Alvaro Uribe could be attempting to provoke a war. Chavez insisted that Venezuela does everything possible to prevent members of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia and the smaller National Liberation Army from crossing into Venezuelan territory.


Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/07/23/venezuela-colombia023.html#ixzz0uWrOb9Jy

[~Spectre]

Chomsky is just a petty liberal

Not at all. Other comrades have already failed miserably trying to make this claim.

[RadioRaheem84]

Not at all. Other comrades have already failed miserably trying to make this claim.

Well I wouldn't have said that he is a liberal but some of the stuff he says sounds a bit liberal-ish.

[Nolan]

A bit? :lol:

[~Spectre]

A bit? :lol:

Your claim is baseless.

[Nolan]

So is yours.

[RadioRaheem84]

I say a bit because he is still generally an strong anti-capitalist and adopts a strong class analysis in his writings. The only thing that I question is when he says stuff like he agrees to some extent with the old conservative arguments that labeled the judicial creation of corporations as akin to bringing back feudalism or 'communism'.
Just what did he mean by that? Communism as in "state capitalism"?

[~Spectre]

So is yours.

He is on record calling for the overthrow of capitalism and saying that capitalism is inherently incompatible with democracy. You must know some rather interesting liberals.

[RadioRaheem84]

Yes, Chomsky is an ally and one of the best at that. I just question some of the language he employs, I guess.

[pranabjyoti]

He is on record calling for the overthrow of capitalism and saying that capitalism is inherently incompatible with democracy. You must know some rather interesting liberals.
Has he ever said that a classless society is the ultimate form of democracy? Perhaps he talked about petty-bourgeoisie dictatorship by overthrowing bourgeoisie dictatorship but actually he failed to understand that petty-bourgeoisie dictatorship is inherently flawed.

[Adi Shankara]

Why aren't they all lovable and cuddly like the EZLN? This is everything people love the Zapatistas for, right?

Because FARC every day is getting shot at by American operatives, Colombian military, and rival Right-wing guerillas...and EZLN (while I have respect for them, don't get me wrong), well...let's just say they turned into a tourist attraction:

http://www.landfall-learning.org/images/photos/ThanksEZLN.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_rfZdhYCfQPo/R-00gKzSSvI/AAAAAAAAAO4/VvJMTKvJRX8/s400/03.19.08+010.jpg

http://www.newstatesman.com/travel/2009/03/zapatistas-mexican-san-oventic

it's almost like they don't even care anymore. they just kind've coexist with the Mexican government, and the Mexican government knows they don't post any threat, so they just let them hang out in the Yucatan.

[~Spectre]

Has he ever said that a classless society is the ultimate form of democracy? Perhaps he talked about petty-bourgeoisie dictatorship by overthrowing bourgeoisie dictatorship but actually he failed to understand that petty-bourgeoisie dictatorship is inherently flawed.

I can't tell if you're serious.

[pranabjyoti]

I can't tell if you're serious.
That's the problem with petty-bourgeoisie ideology and ideologists. They are looking for democracy (in fact petty-bourgeoisie dictatorship) in a class based world and ultimately become frustrated because reality always betray them.
To Chomsky and people like him, both bourgeoisie and proletariat are evil and like two sides of the same coin. At least I don't know any incident where he praised and supported any ongoing armed struggle, and as long as he remained an anarchist, he wouldn't.

[~Spectre]

That's the problem with petty-bourgeoisie ideology and ideologists. They are looking for democracy (in fact petty-bourgeoisie dictatorship) in a class based world and ultimately become frustrated because reality always betray them.
To Chomsky and people like him, both bourgeoisie and proletariat are evil and like two sides of the same coin. At least I don't know any incident where he praised and supported any ongoing armed struggle, and as long as he remained an anarchist, he wouldn't.

You're an idiot.

[Ligeia]

Back on topic.

Obviously this was a strategic and planned political move by the Colombian government (and likely the U.S. government) to destabilize the region.
Some think that this move was used to divert attention from a recently found mass grave (http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_60716.shtml) in Colombia. But this would probably only cause a little temporary media attention if any (without the recent cut of ties).
Since this diplomatic move has been started just some days before Santos would take the lead, and Uribe wanted to extend his government before (but wasn't allowed to by courts), this may be something related to this.
On another note, the meeting of OEA was invoked just like the colombian government wanted it to, there was no discussion by the secretary general with other governments whether this is a good idea, whether it should be shifted to a later date or anything like that although there have been several pleas to discuss a convocation of this meeting by other members of the OEA.
And not to forget this:


Uribe withdrew his ambassador before filing "complaints" in the OAS

Caracas, 22 Jul. AVN .- Early in the morning of Thursday 22, even before the ambassador of Colombia to the Organization of American States (OAS), Luis Alfonso Hoyos, submit their "complaints" against Venezuela, ambassador in Caracas, Maria Luisa Chiappe, boarded a plane to Bogota, convened by the Foreign Office emergency.

According to Colombian news media, this has been considered as an evidence that the government of Alvaro Uribe causes, in full consciousness, the breaking of bilateral relations on the part of Venezuela.

in Spanish http://www.abn.info.ve/node/6535

In any case, Colombia gets huge military aid by the U.S. government and there's been a military pact with the new Costarican government for dubious reasons....some days ago.

Chavez made a comment or rather a message to FARC yesterday that they should reconsider there armed struggle since he doesn't see the conditions to take the power like that in any time soon but they have become an excuse for the U.S. government to penetrate Colombia and threaten others like Venezuela,Cuba and Ecuador.
He also said that if Uribe's government wants to attack Venezuela like they did with Ecuador or worse, they should be careful because of the colombian people's reactions or even sections of the colombian military which he knows.
Spanish source (http://www.telesurtv.net/noticias/secciones/nota/75629-NN/chavez-insta-a-guerrillas-a-reconsiderar-su-estrategia-y-parar-busqueda-del-poder-en-colombia/)

So much for the situation until now.

[Obs]

She was a Green, which doesn't mean she wasn't/isn't antiworker, but it makes it less likely. She was anti-corruption, in one of the most corrupt countries in the world. Corruption doesn't benefit the workers.
The Green party, as someone else said before, is a neo-liberal party. And sure, they're all against corruption, right until they end up in power.


But ultimately, it's irrelevant. She wasn't a military officer, which is what someone earlier claimed was who was being kidnapped by the FARC.
Most, if not all, of the hostages that FARC are currently holding are military personnel, afaik, though.

[pranabjyoti]

You're an idiot.
Maybe, but not as good as you.

[RadioRaheem84]

I thought Chomsky was caught red handed by the right supporting the NLF during the Vietnam War?

[KurtFF8]

I just want to also recommend a book that was brought up earlier about the FARC written by James J. Brittain.

I'm actually not done with it yet (and the next section I'm reading is about the FARC's relationship to coca production which should be quite interesting)

But I just want to quote a brief part of the foreword by James Petras from the very beginning of the book that seems quite relevant to this thread:


The political practice of demonology, where politicians, journalists, mass media pundits, and academics attribute derogative labels and heinous behaviour to political regimes, leaders, and movements on the basis of unsubstantiated claims, has become common practice. What is worse, demonizing the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Columbia-People's Army (FARC-EP) has spread from the top downward, from the right to the center-left, from the mass media to the progressive websites.

[The Vegan Marxist]

To address on the talks of the "Green Party" in Colombia, they're nothing more than a reformist party. They didn't even address the crimes being committed by the right-wing paramilitary forces. Expect nothing but counterrevolutionary actions by these people.

[Bombay]

According ot wikipedia Betancourt was a member of Oxygen Green Party. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_Green_Party

I guess it's not the same as Green Party and I don't know if the party still exists.

I read www.eltiempo.com (a big newspaper in Colombia) almost everyday and the propaganda on that website is simply amazing. They worry more about Chavez than they worry about the problems in Colombia itself. Everyday you see some bullshit about Chavez. In Bogota you see signs on the streets where it says "shut up Chavez!" I just hope Colombia gets rid the fascist government some day.:(