"Why do they come to England?"

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I've noticed this crop up a lot in a discussion with a friend on the topic of immigration. What's the best answer to this sort of question? It can sometimes be seen with it's little brother, "why can't they just move to the country next door?"

[Enragé]

because they like what they (think they) know about england/think there is the best place to go in order to build a decent life. Also has to do with accesibility.

Makes sense i'd think.


"why can't they just move to the country next door?"

well the ones who think that they can build a better life in the country next door, do.

[StoneFrog]

Most countries at one point had British occupation, so ofc there are going to be remains of the ruling class mind set within those countries; which was the British. I remember people who immigrated to Britain thinking that everyone in Britain lived in mansions and was rich. I immigrated to England when i was a kid, it was nothing like i expected. There is a false mind set of how great Britain is... its nothing like the billboard said it be.

[ed miliband]

In Memoirs of a Revolutionist Kropotkin talks about his escape from the Peter and Paul Fortress and says how he was so glad to see a British flag flying on the ship, as opposed to a Norwegian one, or a German one, because he'd heard Britain was an accepting country with a history of accepting those fleeing their home country. I'd say for many people around the world Britain still has that reputation.

[Tifosi]

English is one of the most spoking languages in the world, according to Wikipedia it is the first language of between 309 to 400 million people and the second language of between 199 to 1,400 million people, that will play a major part in immigration in the UK. Why would asylum seekers or immigrants that already have it hard make it harder for themselves by going to a country where they don't speck the language?

[manic expression]

For the food. *snicker*

Seriously, though, for Anglophone countries, the UK is an ideal destination because of its language, economy (and exchange rates, sometimes, probably), historical connections with former colonies (which means vital support networks in the form of family and friends) and the like. A graduate from Bengal who speaks pretty good English and has relatives in London isn't going to head somewhere else just for kicks...language, cultural familiarity and support are some of the biggest things for any emigrant. Another answer is that a lot of people do move to the "country next door"...France, Holland, Belgium and basically the rest of western Europe all see immigration in great numbers.

The best answer, I think, is that the story is always different for each person. The best way to find out is to go talk to them and get to know them.

[Quail]

I think a lot of people come here because they like the sound of it. Also, a lot of people can't go to the country "next door" because it probably wouldn't improve their life all that much. You can't blame people for wanting to come somewhere where they think they will have a decent chance of a better life. I'm sure all of the people that criticise immigrants would do the same thing in their position.

[Devrim]

In Memoirs of a Revolutionist Kropotkin talks about his escape from the Peter and Paul Fortress and says how he was so glad to see a British flag flying on the ship, as opposed to a Norwegian one, or a German one, because he'd heard Britain was an accepting country with a history of accepting those fleeing their home country. I'd say for many people around the world Britain still has that reputation.

I'd be really surprised if it did. I would say that more people would know England as the hardest place to get into in Europe (probably the world?), and a place with a racist and humiliating visa policy.


For the food. *snicker*

Funnily enough I could imagine that. London is the best place to in eat in the world.

Devrim

[Devrim]

I've noticed this crop up a lot in a discussion with a friend on the topic of immigration. What's the best answer to this sort of question? It can sometimes be seen with it's little brother, "why can't they just move to the country next door?"

I think that one of the points of origin of this idea is the view put forward in the bourgeois media that the country is overflowing with immigrants, and they are all coming to Britain. Of course it simply isn't true. Britain is the country with the third highest immigration in Europe after Germany and Spain in total numbers, but as a percentage of the population Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Denmark, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Slovenia, Spain, and Sweden all have higher immigration than the UK*.

Devrim

*Based on 2008 figures.

[Hit The North]

One reason is that as a direct consequence of the erosion of trade union power and deregulation, the UK has one of the most unregulated labour markets in the West with a consequent large black economy which allows "illegals" to find low-paid work.

[genstrike]

I've noticed this crop up a lot in a discussion with a friend on the topic of immigration. What's the best answer to this sort of question?

Because their home countries have been ravaged by global capitalism and imperialism.

[Nolan]

The fish and chips.

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

To rape our women, apparently (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1167978/One-rapes-committed-foreign-attackers-shock-police-figures-reveal.html)

[IllicitPopsicle]

Talk about a strawman. "One in six rapes were committed by foreigners." Meaning the remaining FIVE in six rapes were committed by British nationals. "Oh, well then, we should get rid of all the foreigners!":rolleyes: Rape is rape; the nationality of the rapist is unimportant, unless, of course, you're a racist.

[scarletghoul]

Because Britain fucked up the rest of the world even more than this place

[danyboy27]

fish and chips, that why.

[MarxSchmarx]

I always thought it was because people could count on an existing support network - for example, there are a lot of people who speak yoruba in England, so if you are a yoruba speaker you do better there than, say, Italy. And then you can open up a shop/business catering to other expatriates and make a living off of that. there are only a very few really "global" cities in that sense, and it just so happens london is one of them, and one can get to London or its suburbs within a day anywhere in England. At least that was always my impression, I know it's why my relatives insisted on moving into the london metro area :þ

[DunyaGongrenKomRevolyutsi]

There are a lot of reasons, many of them are specific to individual groups of migrants too. In the majority of EU workers' cases, they are coming in because they can get better work with better pay here, it's less than what people living here since the 1970s (when wages generally started to fall) get, or rather got, being British citizens or naturalised citizens. Another one specific to EU migrants is that many British citizens aren't trained up to do jobs such as sheep shearing, so the bourgeoisie will need to import migrants to do it at a good price, without having to train someone up. There are of course ongoing ethnic and political conflicts in the European area, which are forcing people to flee, with this country attracting them the most.

There is a lot of propaganda regarding that last point. Quite a lot of African workers leave for this country because they think they can just have a better life over here, which is not really true if you looked at it on a day-to-day and objective basis, actually the risk of death from drowning in overpacked boats, being forced into jails in the crossing in Libya, being beaten and thrown into prisons in Calais, it wouldn't seem worth it had they the full picture, they do it because propaganda tells them they have to "better themselves", which as we all know is Capitalist garbage.

Another attraction might be the British passport, one of the best in the world for travel so they say, you get treated differently if you have one, if you have a 'British accent' you get treated differently, I know Indians who have come over here because they wanted to "become British", ditto for some Jamaicans, I have even heard a story of a guy from Trinidad who attempted to join the BNP.

It would take a long time to list all of them, but I hope you can gain something from this.

[Andropov]

I know from my own familys reasons it was primarily down to economic factors.
They left for work in England and some decided to stay for good.
All my grandparents worked in England for some years and both my parents emigrated abroad in the 80s to South Africa to work.
But all came back after a few years.
But I do have Uncles and Aunts that ended up marrying and raising familys in England and more distant relations in Detroit and New York.
There wasnt a language barrier for Irish who emigrated to the likes of England, America, South Africa and Australia with the noteable exception from around the famine era when many emmigrants had no English at all.
But one country that did break the trend for Irish emmigrants is Argentina where thousands of Irish settled and yet it being a predominantly Spanish speaking country.
After our short lived economic bubble over the apst two decades I now see friends moving abroad and the figures for emmigration are increasing, it remains to be seen if it shall return to the bad days.

[Lyev]

I think that one of the points of origin of this idea is the view put forward in the bourgeois media that the country is overflowing with immigrants, and they are all coming to Britain. Of course it simply isn't true. Britain is the country with the third highest immigration in Europe after Germany and Spain in total numbers, but as a percentage of the population Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Denmark, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Slovenia, Spain, and Sweden all have higher immigration than the UK*.

Devrim

*Based on 2008 figures.Sorry, are we talking about outward immigration -- people going out of the Britain -- or people that arrive here from other countries?

[Devrim]

Sorry, are we talking about outward immigration -- people going out of the Britain -- or people that arrive here from other countries?

'Outward immigration' is generaly called 'emmigration' in English. The figures are talking about the total numbers of immigrants to EU countries.

Devrim