The Tea party: Embryo of a fascist movement?

[theAnarch]

So essentially I posted about a ten minute video on Youtube stating that I believe that the tea party represents a proto-fascist movement for the follow reasons;

A. They are largely a movement of the petite-bourgeois reacting to being pressed under the thumb of capitalism in a state of decline.

B. they are based largely on militant supporters mobilized in the streets.

C. they have a certain amount of hostility to the power of large finance capital but are also hostile to workers movements.

D. while they may be hostile to large finance capital, there are also supported by a strata of the capitalist class.

I need help knowing if I have analyzed this right.

[Trotskist]

hmmm don't insult fascists, haha. I think that the Tea Baggers are just a movement of angry americans against the capitalist imperialist system, but who don't have knowledge about political science, political theory, politics in general. So they just formed The Tea Party as an electoral option to Democrat-Republicans one party monster.

However i think that The Tea Partiers are not fascists and nazis like the Nazis of Nazi Germany. The Tea Partiers are just uninformed

.


So essentially I posted about a ten minute video on Youtube stating that I believe that the tea party represents a proto-fascist movement for the follow reasons;

A. They are largely a movement of the petite-bourgeois reacting to being pressed under the thumb of capitalism in a state of decline.

B. they are based largely on militant supporters mobilized in the streets.

C. they have a certain amount of hostility to the power of large finance capital but are also hostile to workers movements.

D. while they may be hostile to large finance capital, there are also supported by a strata of the capitalist class.

I need help knowing if I have analyzed this right.

[death_by_semicolon]

I agree with Trotskist's point on the non-specificity of their anger being the result of not yet being fully awakened to the true state of things. However, this is itself a very dangerous state of mind for them to be in. It leaves them very impressionable and fertile ground for the fascist seed to take root. If you look on Stormfront (don't recommend it unless you have a good reason), they actually have a subforum dedicated to Tea Parties in which SFers talk about actively participating in and EVEN HELPING TO ORGANIZE Tea Party events. If you know a tea partier, stay engaged with them, keep them grounded in reality, and try to open their eyes to the true injustice that we all face.

[Aesop]

More right-wing populism than being from the fascist school of thought.

Fascism is actually a political ideology and not a buzzword, using your four points i guess the counter-revolutionaires at kronstadt were fascist :tongue_smilie:

[chegitz guevara]

So essentially I posted about a ten minute video on Youtube stating that I believe that the tea party represents a proto-fascist movement for the follow reasons;

A. They are largely a movement of the petite-bourgeois reacting to being pressed under the thumb of capitalism in a state of decline.

B. they are based largely on militant supporters mobilized in the streets.

C. they have a certain amount of hostility to the power of large finance capital but are also hostile to workers movements.

D. while they may be hostile to large finance capital, there are also supported by a strata of the capitalist class.

I need help knowing if I have analyzed this right.

That's just about bang on.

[chegitz guevara]

More right-wing populism than being from the fascist school of thought.

Fascism is actually a political ideology and not a buzzword, using your four points i guess the counter-revolutionaires at kronstadt were fascist :tongue_smilie:

Wrong, fascism is not a political ideology, it is a social movement based on the factors that theAnarch outlined in the OP. Fascist groups have, historically, had widely varying ideologies. What is consistent is what theAnarch has pointed out.

[theAnarch]

I understand its not a buzz word im not one of these people who thought the Bush administration was fascist, and I said that this is the embryo of a fascist movement not a fascist movement.

I think former representative Dick Armey summed it up well: “I see these folks as pretty much the National Guard, They will go back to their day jobs, they will go back to their Little League and their bridge club. But they will have their activism at the ready, and they will stay in touch.”

[370H55V]

Let me help you help you know if you analyzed correctly.

My answer is "NO". Come back later and try again. No cigar for you.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I find it fascinating how the new conservative upsurge in the U.S. is using tactics that the activist left has used for decades. I remember reading something about how mass grassroots organizing was one of the defining features of the fascist movement; a perverse inversion of working-class/leftist mobilization tactics (the SA, Black Shirts, Falange, etc).

I also think it's interesting how the GOP is trying to "tame" the Tea Party, and how the Tea Party has subsequently threatened to punish the GOP by not voting for it's candidates if they're not conservative enough in regards to fiscal issues. To me it mirrors a lot of issues that the mainstream left has dealt with.

[Dimentio]

More right-wing populism than being from the fascist school of thought.

Fascism is actually a political ideology and not a buzzword, using your four points i guess the counter-revolutionaires at kronstadt were fascist :tongue_smilie:

Fascism in the USA is bound to be different due to cultural reasons. For example, there is a huge difference between South European traditional fascism and German fascism (national socialism). Since fascism per definition is ultranationalist, various forms of fascism are bound to take different shapes depending on national culture.

The tea party is a part of a cluster of proto-fascistic memes and movements in the United States. I would claim that figures such as Ron Paul and Alex Jones represent potential fascist leaders.

[Os Cangaceiros]

i would claim that figures such as ron paul and alex jones represent potential fascist leaders.

lol

[Nolan]

Wrong, fascism is not a political ideology, it is a social movement based on the factors that theAnarch outlined in the OP. Fascist groups have, historically, had widely varying ideologies. What is consistent is what theAnarch has pointed out.

No, you are wrong. Fascism is a specific ideology first conjured by Mussolini, then expanded upon by Hitler, etc. If it doesn't originate from that school of thought, then it isn't fascist and we should drop the buzzwords and just call it petty bourgeois right wing populism.


Fascist groups have, historically, had widely varying ideologies.Not that much. Hitler, for example, just focused more on antisemitism and "Aryan" supremacy in ideology, but his economic policies and other social policies were similar to things Mussolini did.

Fascist movements must:

- Be ultra-nationalist.

- Advocate class collaborationism, rather than pretend capitalism doesn't have classes.

- Be populist, which can go as far as occasional anti-capitalist rhetoric.

- (the main characteristic imo) Advocate a corporatist ("guild capitalism") economic system. This means they are against the "free market."


Hitler, Mussolini, and a few others satisfied these requirements and are fascists. Suharto, Pinochet, and the teabaggers are not.

What TheAnarch said is typically true of fascism's support base, just as socialism's support base comes mostly from the working class. It is not fascist itself, nor does it mean that the movement will create fascism once it gains power.

[Raúl Duke]

I'll say they have the potential to turn fascist...but currently they don't fit that mod. They surely are very right-wing though. However, keep in mind that the tea party relation to politics is as an auxiliary to the right-wing faction inside the right-wing GOP.

I'll be calling them fascist (in the Spain 1930s fascist front style, not like pure Italian fascism or National Socialism) if they take more explicit christian fundamentalist positions/rhetoric and begin to use explicit anti-progressive rhetoric (both against proposed and current/past political policies and as percieved enemies, i.e. "progressives," liberals, perceived "leftists" in government, etc.); although note that some segments of the tea party are already like this.

[370H55V]

Pooooooooooop? :blushing:

[Joe Payne]

Regardless, at this point it would be imperative to engage with the working class elements of this amalgam of relatively unconnected ideas fueled by anger and disillusionment with the system of Capital. This isn't fascist or explicitly racist yet, and each local area has its own flavor and mix of ideas; there is no real national homogeneity, Tea Party has just been a name given to it.

Even for example, Tea Partiers endorsing a Democrat's campaign in northern Idaho, an obvious difference to the percieved generalizations of the Tea Party. To interact with them and just simply tell them the truth, organizing them away from the real racist, fundamentalist, and fascist ideas that may or may not be swimming in whatever locality they may be in would probably be the best idea to counteract this wave of right-ring populism.

[chegitz guevara]

No, you are wrong. Fascism is a specific ideology first conjured by Mussolini, then expanded upon by Hitler, etc. If it doesn't originate from that school of thought, then it isn't fascist and we should drop the buzzwords and just call it petty bourgeois right wing populism.

Not that much. Hitler, for example, just focused more on antisemitism and "Aryan" supremacy in ideology, but his economic policies and other social policies were similar to things Mussolini did.

Fascist movements must:

- Be ultra-nationalist.

- Advocate class collaborationism, rather than pretend capitalism doesn't have classes.

- Be populist, which can go as far as occasional anti-capitalist rhetoric.

- (the main characteristic imo) Advocate a corporatist ("guild capitalism") economic system. This means they are against the "free market."


Hitler, Mussolini, and a few others satisfied these requirements and are fascists. Suharto, Pinochet, and the teabaggers are not.

What TheAnarch said is typically true of fascism's support base, just as socialism's support base comes mostly from the working class. It is not fascist itself, nor does it mean that the movement will create fascism once it gains power.

How about, your analysis is idealist, not materialist, and thus, not Marxist.

[HammerAlias]

Hmm... Interesting. I do believe they will become one of many prominent right-wing radical groups that will soon appear in the near future. I also believe that as time progresses, groups such as the Teabaggers will become more militant and even more reactionary.

[Nolan]

How about, your analysis is idealist, not materialist, and thus, not Marxist.

How about you stop mislabeling movements from your mechanistic, incomplete "analysis" you think is "materialist" before proceeding to gallop away on your high stick horse?

Or are you going to keep pretending ideologies (and thus tendencies on the left and right) don't exist?

[Trotskist]

I think that the cause of why the US left is so weak in activism. Is that a big part of the US left is a Middle Class bourgeoise-liberal left (like the folks of socialistworker.org commondreams.org and alternet.org, and not radical left in the traditions of Marx, Trotsky, Lenin etc. And that College, Academic Bourgeoise-Reformist Liberal left, like Naomi Klein, Michael Moore, Paul Krugman, Alan Maass, are great at analysis and theory of the capitalist economy but not very good on the *activism* side, activism with the people beating the bullets in America, like the unemployed, the homeless, prisoners, gays, poor oppressed blacks and undocumented citizens

.




I find it fascinating how the new conservative upsurge in the U.S. is using tactics that the activist left has used for decades. I remember reading something about how mass grassroots organizing was one of the defining features of the fascist movement; a perverse inversion of working-class/leftist mobilization tactics (the SA, Black Shirts, Falange, etc).

I also think it's interesting how the GOP is trying to "tame" the Tea Party, and how the Tea Party has subsequently threatened to punish the GOP by not voting for it's candidates if they're not conservative enough in regards to fiscal issues. To me it mirrors a lot of issues that the mainstream left has dealt with.

[chegitz guevara]

How about you stop mislabeling movements from your mechanistic, incomplete "analysis" you think is "materialist" before proceeding to gallop away on your high stick horse?

Or are you going to keep pretending ideologies (and thus tendencies on the left and right) don't exist?

No, I think ideologies don't define movements, especially movements that will say anything to get popular. As Marx said, it's not what a man thinks of himself that defines himself. The same is true for movements.

What defines fascism is its social role and its class composition, not what it claims.

[EirSoc]

hmmm don't insult fascists, haha. I think that the Tea Baggers are just a movement of angry americans against the capitalist imperialist system, but who don't have knowledge about political science, political theory, politics in general. I'm inclined to agree with this assessment of the Tea Party movement, most of those involved have grown up in a society which is strongly right-wing, and have been force fed right-wing views from almost every media source out there, and it's a society which doesn't value independent thought. So I don't think those involved have really had the ability to form their own political positions, and have merely carried on the views they've be thought are right by their parents, and their parent's parents. Obama's policies are portrayed as "socialist" by a hostile media when in all honesty, they're anything but that. So it's really just reactionary mob mentality taking affect. Ok, many of those who got the ball rolling are reactionaries, but most of their strength is coming from the unthinking masses.

[Monkey Riding Dragon]

Yeah this is kind of a "duh" thing for me. It's obvious that the Tea Party people are basically fascists. The Republican Party as an organization is, in fact, more or less fascist these days, I would argue. The Tea Party folks are just one form this has taken of late. Think: the Minutemen, the state militia movement (including yeah the "Hutaree" loonies within that), etc. These are all ultra-nationalist, heavily racist, and basically Christian movements that are either violent or borderline violent and they're all supported by elements of the GOP.

[chegitz guevara]

I think that the Tea Baggers are just a movement of angry americans against the capitalist imperialist system, but who don't have knowledge about political science, political theory, politics in general.

Just like the SA.

[progressive_lefty]

I can just imagine how devastating it will be for the world if someone like Palin gets elected on the back of all this. I think anti-Americanism has most likely declined since Obama was elected, those are my thoughts anyway. Imagine when Israel gets the green light from Palin to push the Palestinians into Jordan.

[chegitz guevara]

Crap, imagine how devastating it would be for us!:blink:

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

I think national-syndicalism (of which fascism is but one variety) is a better description.


I think the Tea Party is most definitely a National-Syndicalist ("fascist") movement.

National-Syndicalism is nationalist and patriotic in the extreme. Thus the Tea Party denounces things alien to the "national culture," from immigrants from Latin America to Islam to Presidents born in Hawaii with a different shade of skin than the first 43.

Of course this includes even the German Nazism and Italian Fascism with which it shares so many features. Thus we end up with talking head Glenn Beck denouncing "the rise of fascism."

It's no coincidence that the Tea Party arose at the same time that capitalism entered its biggest crisis since the Great Depression. As Slavoj rightly pointed out, the working class is feeling the effects of the crisis and beginning to look for a way out of this mess.

So in the present the Tea Party serves as a sort of reserve of shock troops. If and when the ruling class decides it needs them, the Tea Party will be mobilized, promoted, strengthened.

Note well though, the answer to this all is not some sort of "Anti-Fascism" that binds the working class with a section of its own exploiters in the name of defending capitalist democracy. The only way out is through a working class revolution that rids the world of the capitalist system that gave rise to this whole mess.http://www.revleft.com/vb/obama-hitler-lenini-t138482/index.html?p=1801926#post1801926

[theAnarch]

The tea party might lose steam just like the minute men did, what concerns me however is not rather the tea party its self will make the leap into a full fledged movement of extralegal thugs backed by the state braking up labor unions, attacking protests and arresting homosexuals its the fact that the social conditions exist for this kind of movement to form.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I think national-syndicalism (of which fascism is but one variety) is a better description.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/obama-hitler-lenini-t138482/index.html?p=1801926#post1801926

Hmm...National Syndicalism? Surely not in the same way that someone like Primo De Rivera meant? I don't really hear anything coming out of the Tea Party camp about workers at all...

[Catillina]

I think this fits in here:rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIcAd8eqI0g&feature=topvideos

[theAnarch]

Good video,

just to move away from scientific analysis for a sec....

does this remind anyone else of the scene from Walking Through Egypt where the preachers wife said the main character was a thief because of secular humanism?

[praxis1966]

The one thing everyone's missing here, I think, is Howard Zinn's thesis on American history. Basically, he argues that the one thing that the American political duopoly is really, really good at when third party movements like this crop up is co-opting just enough of their grievances to siphon off membership and bring them back into the mainstream.

His take is that this process has been a detriment to true socially progressive movements (read: socialist), but occasionally has the same deleterious effect on right wing movements as well. This was true of the Greenback Party of the late 1800s, the States' Rights Democratic Party (aka the 'Dixiecrats') of 1948 which later became the American Independent Party, and the Reform Party (1995-present). I think given a little time, the GOP will adopt enough of the Tea Bagger Party platform that their growth will be neutralized, similar to the way the Democratic Party adopted the environmentalist positions of the Green Party and caused a plateau in their growth.

Trust me, there's really nothing to worry about here. Eventually these people will be swept, by and large, into the dustbin of history. In the meantime, we should probably actually be thanking them because they might actually cost the Republicans elections in tightly contested congressional districts this November.

[Os Cangaceiros]

The one thing everyone's missing here, I think, is Howard Zinn's thesis on American history. Basically, he argues that the one thing that the American political duopoly is really, really good at when third party movements like this crop up is co-opting just enough of their grievances to siphon off membership and bring them back into the mainstream.

His take is that this process has been a detriment to true socially progressive movements (read: socialist), but occasionally has the same deleterious effect on right wing movements as well. This was true of the Greenback Party of the late 1800s, the States' Rights Democratic Party (aka the 'Dixiecrats') of 1948 which later became the American Independent Party, and the Reform Party (1995-present). I think given a little time, the GOP will adopt enough of the Tea Bagger Party platform that their growth will be neutralized, similar to the way the Democratic Party adopted the environmentalist positions of the Green Party and caused a plateau in their growth.

Trust me, there's really nothing to worry about here. Eventually these people will be swept, by and large, into the dustbin of history.

I'm aware of that viewpoint ("the bee only stings once"), but the prospect of an even more reactionary GOP doesn't really encourage optimism for me.

[praxis1966]

I'm aware of that viewpoint ("the bee only stings once"), but the prospect of an even more reactionary GOP doesn't really encourage optimism for me.

It should, because the initial impetus behind the formation of the Tea Party is fiscal conservatism, something which was absent from the Bush administration (the departure from which can be traced back to the Reagan administration) and is a traditional core component of the Republican Party, and in all probability the part of the Tea Party's agenda they'll adopt. I highly doubt you'll see any electorally viable Republicans espousing the racist/neo-fascist tendencies of the the Tea Party rank and file.

Of course, the argument could be made that these tendencies have always existed within the GOP proper. I would then ask exactly how this any different from the way things have been done in America for decades? It's true, we're living in a state of political and economic flux, but I don't think it's time to be hitting the panic button where the Tea Party is concerned.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Hmm...National Syndicalism? Surely not in the same way that someone like Primo De Rivera meant? I don't really hear anything coming out of the Tea Party camp about workers at all...National-syndicalism isn't an ideology as much as it is a strategy of the exploiters to maintain their rule. It is opportunist to the core. Thus the national-syndicalists in Germany and Italy used some leftist rhetoric in an attempt to co-opt the legacy of the workers movements while in the US, where the working class hasn't made any major moves on its own in years, such things are not required.

[Os Cangaceiros]

It should, because the initial impetus behind the formation of the Tea Party is fiscal conservatism, something which was absent from the Bush administration (the departure from which can be traced back to the Reagan administration) and is a traditional core component of the Republican Party, and in all probability the part of the Tea Party's agenda they'll adopt. I highly doubt you'll see any electorally viable Republicans espousing the racist/neo-fascist tendencies of the the Tea Party rank and file.

Of course, the argument could be made that these tendencies have always existed within the GOP proper. I would then ask exactly how this any different from the way things have been done in America for decades? It's true, we're living in a state of political and economic flux, but I don't think it's time to be hitting the panic button where the Tea Party is concerned.

Oh, I'm not worried about the Tea Party marching through the streets with torches or anything...I'm more worried about the Left being present in a crucial moment and totally losing the opportunity, with the possibility of leftist politics sinking into another decade of darkness (a.k.a. a repeat of the 1980's under Reagan and Bush Sr.)

It's hard to gauge exactly how strong conservative sentiment is in the United States, though.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

"The Nazis expressed the populist yearnings of middle–class constituents and at the same time advocated a strong and resolutely anti-Marxist mobilization....Against 'unnaturally' divisive parties and querulous organized interest groups, National Socialists cast themselves as representatives of the commonwealth, of an allegedly betrayed and neglected German public..." - Peter Fritzsche, Rehearsals for Fascism: Populism and Political Mobilization in Weimar Germany (1990).

Sound familiar?

[RadioRaheem84]

National-syndicalism isn't an ideology as much as it is strategy of the exploiters to maintain their rule. It is opportunist to the core. Thus the national-syndicalists in Germany and Italy used some leftist rhetoric in an attempt to co-opt the legacy of the workers movements while in the US, where the working class hasn't made any major moves on its own in years, such things are not required.

National Syndicalism = Corporatism. That bullshit, harmony of interests, that fascists used to ensnare the working class to obey the status quo. A set of corporations (federal agencies) to mediate the differences between classes. It wasn't even real syndicalism. Just some shoddy attempt to have managers retain their position in auto-gestion like enterprises.

The working class in the States, at least ones aligned with the right, do not even view the slightest tilt toward economic democracy as legitimate. National Syndicalism would be too "socialist" to them.

Tea Party movement is different. It's fascist-like in some regards but certainly not theoretically Fascist. I would compare it to movements where there was working/middle class support for right wing dictatorships like in Chile with the Fatherland and Liberty Movement. Exiled right Wing movements from Vietnam or Cuba or the former USSR are also similar.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

The tea party is a part of a cluster of proto-fascistic memes and movements in the United States. I would claim that figures such as Ron Paul and Alex Jones represent potential fascist leaders.

I honnestly don't think Alex Jones could lead his own ass on to a toilet.

As for the general subject of the Tea Bagging Party, they are blatantly racist, nationalistic, xenophobic and the ones I met are also quite creepy. They eat up the dumbest conspiracy theories thrown at them. I want to make up one as idiotic as I can make it and see how stupid of a theory they'll buy. They are hateful and building a kind of ominous and scary movement.

Also, from my experience, tea party guys are really creepy when they hit on you. It wasn't the fact that he's about twice my age, as that is about the average age of the last few people I've been with. It's the fact that he though is anti-mexican statements would turn me on. But OMMFG! It was funny when I pointed out that I'm Mexican.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

National Syndicalism = Corporatism. That bullshit, harmony of interests, that fascists used to ensnare the working class to obey the status quo. A set of corporations (federal agencies) to mediate the differences between classes. It wasn't even real syndicalism. Just some shoddy attempt to have managers retain their position in auto-gestion like enterprises.

The working class in the States, at least ones aligned with the right, do not even view the slightest tilt toward economic democracy as legitimate. National Syndicalism would be too "socialist" to them.

Tea Party movement is different. It's fascist-like in some regards but certainly not theoretically Fascist. I would compare it to movements where there was working/middle class support for right wing dictatorships like in Chile with the Fatherland and Liberty Movement. Exiled right Wing movements from Vietnam or Cuba or the former USSR are also similar.

Fascism was a specific movement that grew up in Italy. It differed in ways from Nazism in Germany. Both differed from Falangism in Spain.

Yet they were all different forms of the same thing.

Again, national-syndicalism is not a specific ideology as much as a general strategy for the exploiters to maintain the conditions of their existence.

[RadioRaheem84]

But c'mon could the right wing in the States really support auto-gestion or any form of corporatism? I think not. Even the right wing of the UK BNP and the French NF are closer to fascism than the Tea Party.

[praxis1966]

In re Alex Jones: Ran into one of his supporters at Socialism 2010. I was tabling with the Wobblies and he came up to us on three different occasions to start arguments. Suffice to say the guy was a little loose in his shoes.

The last time he approached our table it was probably a good thing I was in a lecture on the US Civil Rights Movement, as he showed up with two buddies and a video camera shouting, "This is the face of violent communism!" All I can say is if I'd been there, I'd probably have shown him the face of violent communism in the same way my father used to say, "You wanna cry? I'll give you something to cry about!"

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

But c'mon could the right wing in the States really support auto-gestion or any form of corporatism? I think not. Even the right wing of the UK BNP and the French NF are closer to fascism than the Tea Party.

The exploiters could certainly resort to national syndicalism if it was required. Would it look exactly like it did in Germany or Spain? No.

And to a certain extent they are already relying on it. Hence the rise of the Tea Party. Where do you think the funding is coming from? The media coverage?

[Dimentio]

I think that the Tea Party rather will resemble the Confederacy. "States rights" and constant bickering and infighting, with no clear charismatic leader.

[Aesop]

Wrong, fascism is not a political ideology, it is a social movement based on the factors that theAnarch outlined in the OP. Fascist groups have, historically, had widely varying ideologies. What is consistent is what theAnarch has pointed out.

.......
Fascism is not a political ideology?
In that case i guess socialism/anarchism/liberalism is not a political ideology. A political ideology is a set of involves in changing or maintaing society in a certain set of beliefs. It has ways of trying to achieve the ideal society.

A social movemment would be a guess the 1960's music liberation not fascism.

[Aesop]

Fascism in the USA is bound to be different due to cultural reasons. For example, there is a huge difference between South European traditional fascism and German fascism (national socialism).

Huge differences?

Don't get me wrong there was differences between Mussolini and Hitler say in regards to the state, however i have to disagree and say that hitler copied that traditional Italian fascism and added to it. By analogy i see national socialism as a branch of the tree(mussolini's fascism).



Since fascism per definition is ultranationalist, various forms of fascism are bound to take different shapes depending on national culture.

I am pretty sure that the sole definition of fascism is more than ultranationalism using this i guess churchill and the kasier were fascists, it is a ideology that beliefs there is one grand holder of knowledge(duce), the rejection of rational thought and replacing them of emotive feelings, etc etc

[LimitedIdeology]

The Tea Party is simply a bunch of moronic old white people who are uncomfortable with a black guy with a foreign sounding name being president.

If I didn't know the depths of stupidity inherent in humanity, then I would think the entire movement is a dadaist performance

[chegitz guevara]

.......
Fascism is not a political ideology?
In that case i guess socialism/anarchism/liberalism is not a political ideology. A political ideology is a set of involves in changing or maintaing society in a certain set of beliefs. It has ways of trying to achieve the ideal society.

A social movemment would be a guess the 1960's music liberation not fascism.

If fascism is an ideology, then Nazism, Falanagism, etc, are not fascist, because they have a different ideology from Fascism.

Fascism is a mass movement of the enraged petty bourgeois facing proletarianization as well as backwards elements of the worker class, lashing out at everyone they see as responsible for their predicament, co-opted by the ruling layers of the capitalist class to crush any threat to its profitability. It arises when capitalism is in decay.

Fascism never had a coherent ideology, because the ideology was irrelevant. It was about rage, about making "them" pay. Fascism liberally stole ideas from anarchism and socialism, then dropped them as soon as it was convenient, making up new ideas for whatever they needed. 'We are at war with East Asia, we have always been at war with East Asia.'

Marxism, as opposed to liberalism, looks at the material conditions that give rise to fascism, looks at the social composition of fascist movements, and at the role such movements play. The material world, not the world of ideas, is what defines people, things, social movements, etc.

[Red Commissar]

I was reading some things by Gramsci, and there was a part where he described a scenario similar to the Tea Party,


Neglecting, or worse still despising, so-called "spontaneous" movements, i.e. failing to give them a conscious leadership or raise them to a higher plane by inserting them into politics, may often have extremely serious consequences. It is almost the case that a "spontaneous" movement of the subaltern classes (i.e. Petite bourgeoisie, "middle-class") is accompanied by a reactionary movement of the right-wing of the dominant class, for concomitant reasons. An economic crisis, for instance, engenders on the one hand discontent among the subaltern clases and spontaneous mass movements, and on the other conspiracies among the reactionary groups, who take advantage of the objective weakening of the government in order to attempt coup d'etat."

While the last point can not be applied to this case, I think it describes an aspect of the tea-movement.

[RadioRaheem84]

Gramsi continues to amaze me.

[praxis1966]

Gramsi continues to amaze me.

Kid knew his shit, that's for damned sure.