Post-Rev Politics

[Stephen Colbert]

Do you think post revolutionary politics would be very unusual and not-diverse?

For some reason I feel like politics as we know it today would almost all become history and just theory without practice in a post-revolutionary age.

[Nachie]

All I know is that there sure as fuck had better not be politics after the revolution.

[Stephen Colbert]

lol wut

[Nachie]

You know, like... people will just live their lives and find expressive ways to communicate with each other without ever having to refer to anything as "politics".

[AK]

What are politics today? For the most part, they are dependent on either nationalism, capitalism or religion. Nationalism and capitalism should truly be smashed post-revolution, and religion is no business of any government.

The vast majority of political ideologies that exist today also can only be put into practise through representative democracy (which is really just a contradiction in terms) - something which we should have also gotten rid of in favour of direct democracy.

We don't aim to bring back the left or right wings of capital, we should abolish all the Bourgeois charades of political "change" - in favour of logic and direct democracy. There probably wouldn't be any parties or anything because the political parties on either wings of capital are all just opiates, much like religion in Marx's perspective. No-one would have any need to run to a certain party. People should make their own choices.

What could exist, perhaps, would be sort of campaign groups to win people to one side in a community vote in a commune or council.

[Zanthorus]

We don't aim to bring back the left or right wings of capital,

That sounds like something a Left-Communist would say :D

[DaComm]

Do you think post revolutionary politics would be very unusual and not-diverse?

For some reason I feel like politics as we know it today would almost all become history and just theory without practice in a post-revolutionary age.

I do not believe politics, when in reference to say, politics in the USA will exist post-revolution (YIKES), but I beleive the track of how society will run will be set after a revolution, that is, the class conscioussness the brought about revolution can guide itself without necessarily needing heated political debates on how everything works. Politics, I believe, will take the shape of deciding how things go in the production proccess, that is, politics will dissolve into friendly worker cooperation in the factories...and beyond.

[ckaihatsu]

As long as we live in a material universe and value more-complex (useful) things over less-complex (natural) things, there *will* be politics.

Just because humanity advances to a more collectively rational, less humanely destructive mode of socialized production doesn't mean that people's tastes in consumption and lifestyles will wind up in mass agreement and come to a standstill. There's *no* accounting for the individuality and diversity in people's tastes, and not everyone's whims can be satisfied at the same time. Thus there's politics.

[Adil3tr]

It would speed up wouldn't it? There would be more things to do, and a lot of people wouldn't get the message that there will be more no leaders or rich people and still try to obtain power. I mean eventually it might die out.

[ckaihatsu]

It would speed up wouldn't it? There would be more things to do, and a lot of people wouldn't get the message that there will be more no leaders or rich people and still try to obtain power. I mean eventually it might die out.


Well we know that *any* given ruling class benefits tremendously from being in power, so they want things to remain the same and *not change*, *indefinitely* -- hence the term 'conservative', or 'conservatism'.

If politics was truly in the hands of the people, post-revolution, it would at least be *unshackled* from the go-slow conservatism of a vested ruling class.

I don't know why you think word wouldn't get around, though -- *especially* in our contemporary time of Internet-enabled communications...(!) Moreover, a successful worldwide proletarian revolution would, by definition, *include* the bulk of humanity's population and relieve the need for any local petty power turf-building.

[ckaihatsu]

I mean eventually [politics] might die out.


Another way of looking at this is to say that until the world is perfect there will always be politics.

[jake williams]

As long as we live in a material universe and value more-complex (useful) things over less-complex (natural) things, there *will* be politics.

Just because humanity advances to a more collectively rational, less humanely destructive mode of socialized production doesn't mean that people's tastes in consumption and lifestyles will wind up in mass agreement and come to a standstill. There's *no* accounting for the individuality and diversity in people's tastes, and not everyone's whims can be satisfied at the same time. Thus there's politics.
This.

I can't even conceive of the fantasy world you're living in where there isn't any debate about how to make collective decisions about collectively held resources and apparati. And I wouldn't want to live there. In any society (for our purposes) there will be decisions that need to be decided and acted upon collectively. Unless everyone just happens to spontaneously agree, which they won't, folks will need to work out amongst themselves how to utilize community resources.

[ckaihatsu]

Yeah, that's what *I'm* saying, too -- I *agree* with you.

'Politics' has a negative connotation these days since it describes the capitalist status quo, but the politics you're describing is about what would be possible once the proletariat has taken control of the means of mass production.

[Raúl Duke]

Do you think post revolutionary politics would be very unusual and not-diverse?

For some reason I feel like politics as we know it today would almost all become history and just theory without practice in a post-revolutionary age.

'politics,' whether or not it would be referred that way post-revolution, will be extremely different from today.

In fact, I doubt it'll even be considered politics...more like people discussing policy (i.e. how to deal with this, community projects, etc) yet without explicit references to ideology.

After all if politics is about the question of power than I see the issue of power being mostly resolved post-revolution with the virtual end of hierarchy/class and the equalization of power.

[AK]

That sounds like something a Left-Communist would say :D
Hey, it makes sense and is a good way to detract opponents.

[28350]

Class struggle does not end immediately after a revolution.

So yes, there would be.

[AK]

Class struggle does not end immediately after a revolution.
Within the limits of the particular post-revolutionary society, it does - theoretically anyway (if there are still classes in a post revolutionary society, you're doing it wrong). Unless of course, you count a possible Bourgeois invasion as a sort of continuation of class struggle - but this is not something that is one hundred percent certain to happen.

So yes, there would be.
Wait, what?

[ckaihatsu]

In fact, I doubt it'll even be considered politics...more like people discussing policy (i.e. how to deal with this, community projects, etc) yet without explicit references to ideology.


Politics -- even with the antagonizing class removed -- is not necessarily a *bad* thing -- after all, we're spending *our* precious moments here at RevLeft and beyond for the sake of politics.

After a revolution there would forever be the issue of how to use a societal surplus. (And, of course, a societal surplus in a collectively planned political economy would presuppose its prerequisite planning and production.)

Even if one argues that a post-capitalist society could greatly simplify its technological implements and consumer lifestyles there would still remain the extant reality of *free time*. I've noticed that even *animals* around the city aren't constantly consumed with the task of continuously finding nourishment -- *they* have "free time" in which to possibly explore, or socialize, or relax, etc.

So, taken at a very base level, *how* should *people* explore, or socialize, or relax, etc. -- ? Perhaps some would want *vehicles* of an advanced and yet-unknown design in which to do their exploring. In a post-capitalist society each person's political voice would be basically *equivalent* to anyone else's.

Policy discussions would fundamentally be about people's 'surplus' time, or liberated labor-power, and about the use of materials attached to those labor-productive efforts. While some might favor advanced transportation projects others might encourage organizing around natural exploration and "pure research" projects, etc. -- thus, *politics*.





After all if politics is about the question of power than I see the issue of power being mostly resolved post-revolution with the virtual end of hierarchy/class and the equalization of power.


Power would still exist but it would be on a collectively-rational basis, as opposed to a capital-monopoly basis, as we have today. The equalization of power would enable a direct democracy of liberated labor on a project-merits basis.