Why, then, is the left so small in comparison?

[Stephen Colbert]

Granted liberals are a sizable amount of the American political demography, but where are the "leftists"... I hardly see any...

Where are all the working class folk at? Christian right? or what :rolleyes:

[The Ben G]

Well,

1. The Media refuses to focus on the Left.
2. Maybe 60 years of anti Socialist Propaganda would help?
3. The Majority of Americans are Lazy with short attention spans. They wouldn't want to go and research politics let alone anything

[Raúl Duke]

For some reason, I'm less concerned about the size of the amount of self-described leftists and more concern over the militancy of the working class. The recruitment of more leftists does not seem to ensure victory in the long run (although it would make organizing easier, I'm guessing).

At this point, the working class has not shown to be very militant (in the U.S.) at a time where there should be more opportunities for the working class to act more militant in defense of its interests. Although in Europe, I'm hearing that there's been, at least slight, increase in militancy in the working class against austerity measures (particularly in Southern Europe).

It's not the left that would make revolution...but the working class. The left's goal is to agitate from within the working class as members of the working class.

[StoneFrog]

Media wash.
Hide the issues and distract.

[Raúl Duke]

Where are all the working class folk at? Christian right? or what

Depends on the particular region in the U.S.

[Stephen Colbert]

All of the honest hard working people I know are insanely cynical of the government and border on the anarcho-cappie side of things

[Raúl Duke]

insanely cynical of the government

At least that's a good start...


border on the anarcho-cappie side of things

That sucks balls.

Although, sometimes I wonder why would anyone who's been employed in a shit-job ever think that the employer would be a better manager of things than a politician. Seems like a bad case of narrow-sightedness.

[Adil3tr]

does mcarthy mean anything to you?
besides, the capitalist mentality has been part of this nation's culture since industrialist made it so. The religious right has millions of dollars behind it anyway

[Red Commissar]

The early phase of the socialist movement was damaged by many of their original popular demands with the working class being hijacked by liberal groups- minimum wage, "work safety", abolishment of child labor, recognition of unions, etc.

The Great Depression saw a rise in support for communist groups, but this began to wane once economic circumstances improved.

Since then, with the "anti-communist" deal going through the nation it has made it harder for leftist groups to be tolerated and supported.

And in my opinion another issue with working class support for leftist groups is that many of them have trouble making themselves relevant to their interests and awakening them to the nature of this system. And with this we will always see a shift in working class interests from the left to right wing national-populist type mentality, and this particular point is not unique to the US.

[el_chavista]

Being a communist is "unAmerican" by media standards. The FBI only took on the communists for most of its elapsed time, when infamous Hoover was its director (almost 50 years).
Besides the layer of tradeunionists are social traitors.

[redwog]

I think that to blame the media overstates their power to influence the order of society. I am not diminishing the impact of the media, but its more than just the media that constructs hegemony. For me the question even goes beyond that.

The bigger problem is the inability of the American working class to (re)compose itself after the last 3-4 decades of serious repression, deindustrialisation, and warfare.

All of the sites of worker's composition were destroyed: the mass factory (now offshore or over the border); the universities (privatised or marketised), the communities (parks replaced by mega malls), the resistant ghettos (gentrified).

The class is not organically composed in a nature in which it can grow counter-hegemonic ideas. The media's effectiveness is actually a sign of the class' weakness not the cause.

This is, of course, compounded by the fact that the quasi-leadership i.e. 'the left' has never actually come to terms with the fact that the terrain of struggle has changed. Instead it relies on an old bag of tricks that just don't fly anymore.

It will not stay that way forever; in fact the empire is crumbling. It is doing so as a consequence of its survival strategy of decomposing the working class since the 1970s. Ironically, the strength that called upon the US ruling class to totally decompose the proletariat, which of course its now weakened state we debate, is indeed the grounds upon which the US economy has imploded.

[Raúl Duke]

The bigger problem is the inability of the American working class to (re)compose itself after the last 3-4 decades of serious repression, deindustrialisation, and warfare.

All of the sites of worker's composition were destroyed: the mass factory (now offshore or over the border); the universities (privatised or marketised), the communities (parks replaced by mega malls), the resistant ghettos (gentrified).

The class is not organically composed in a nature in which it can grow counter-hegemonic ideas. The media's effectiveness is actually a sign of the class' weakness not the cause.

This is, of course, compounded by the fact that the quasi-leadership i.e. 'the left' has never actually come to terms with the fact that the terrain of struggle has changed. Instead it relies on an old bag of tricks that just don't fly anymore.

I strongly agree with this point.

Over the years, capitalism's natural capital/job flight and other things has weakened most of what one would call the industrial proletariat, who most are now stuck facing low-wage service jobs.

Although in some cases, working class struggles have still taken place since than...such as anti-gentrification protests, etc. I think the left should participate/aid as a matter of solidarity (and in some cases, as one who's directly affected) in these struggles which are highly relevant to working class life.

[howblackisyourflag]

Well,

1. The Media refuses to focus on the Left.
2. Maybe 60 years of anti Socialist Propaganda would help?
3. The Majority of Americans are Lazy with short attention spans. They wouldn't want to go and research politics let alone anything

If thats what you think of people, then why would you care about socialism at all? If you think they arent worth helping?

[Qayin]

If thats what you think of people, then why would you care about socialism at all? If you think they arent worth helping?

Look how many fucking votes McCain got, Bush was voted in twice. If you don't think theirs a lot of fuckin ignorant Americans you have no idea..

We care because we know this bullshit system leads to these sort of results. The Spectacle reinforces Capitalism and those born into such a society only think in terms of Capitals survival and to maintain such a fake consumer society. To be radical in America apparently is to be "Libertarian" or some hardcore liberal, without even touching alternatives. This is were the Tea Party Succeeded.

[RED DAVE]

Let's recall, comrades, that the situation in the US is only an extreme form of what exists in all the major industrial countries. The Left is small, weak, divided, with only ephemeral roots in the working class in England, France, Germany, Italy ... .

Shit!

RED DAVE

[RadioRaheem84]

In Europe, I've noticed a lot of anti-communism, pro-third way, social democracy among a lot of people.

In the States, I have noticed a lot of anti-government, right-libertarian views. These can be as moderate as thinking that government mucks things up to NWO right wing bonkers conspiracy thinking, left over from the John Birch Society in it's hey day.

Anti-Communism is almost a religion in the States. Saying one is a socialist or even a fucking liberal (in certain regions) at this point in our historical development, is akin to saying you're a terrorist or a Nazi. Our society has become increasingly isolated and distrustful of government in general (which is a good thing) but it also translates into trusting too much in either religion or anarcho-capitalism.

[death_by_semicolon]

I think that to blame the media overstates their power to influence the order of society. I am not diminishing the impact of the media, but its more than just the media that constructs hegemony. For me the question even goes beyond that.

The bigger problem is the inability of the American working class to (re)compose itself after the last 3-4 decades of serious repression, deindustrialisation, and warfare.

All of the sites of worker's composition were destroyed: the mass factory (now offshore or over the border); the universities (privatised or marketised), the communities (parks replaced by mega malls), the resistant ghettos (gentrified).

The class is not organically composed in a nature in which it can grow counter-hegemonic ideas. The media's effectiveness is actually a sign of the class' weakness not the cause.


*Nods emphatically*

Could not agree more. It is social engineering on a huge scale, with the media being part of it, but also things like profit-motivated urban planning, labor offshoring, and the branding of EVERYTHING. It's all geared toward reinforcing the centralized power of the ruling class while further diminishing the working consumer class's intellectual and material ability to do anything about it. The effort has been VERY successful here in the US. Never hold the current state of things against working class people. The deck has been stacked against their awakening to the injustice in their own lives. They know not what they do...that includes the tea partiers. Most of them will come around when things inevitably get "real" for them.

[Pawn Power]

Granted liberals are a sizable amount of the American political demography, but where are the "leftists"... I hardly see any...

Where are all the working class folk at? Christian right? or what :rolleyes:

We are everywhere.

There are numerous leftist/progressive groups all over the country. They aren't on this forum or blogging but they are out there organizing.

Go out and look around- and proceed with out judgment.

[La Comédie Noire]

All of the honest hard working people I know are insanely cynical of the government and border on the anarcho-cappie side of things



In the States, I have noticed a lot of anti-government, right-libertarian views. These can be as moderate as thinking that government mucks things up to NWO right wing bonkers conspiracy thinking, left over from the John Birch Society in it's hey day.

Yes, yes, and yes, but why? Well I think part of the reason is property ownership, especially houses, is considered a status symbol in this country. Stuff is a poor substitute for freedom, but it's the only way many people can express themselves.

There is also the belief that occupation in the working class is temporary and one only needs to pull themselves up by their boot straps in order to get to the middle class sweet life. This is the strongest argument against pro working class reforms and Unions, "We don't need them anymore!" People actually believe that in return for a little pain and debt they'll be given the world.

Another reason, that was pointed out by Khad in another thread, was the formation of political parties before there was a working class in this country. The Democratic and Republican parties are the blown out relics of a Bourgeois Revolution and only serve as distracting political pomp. Then once we did start organizing it was along religious, racial, and ethnic lines.

All the above is especially true for the white working class and I think the tea party is a reaction to their declining standards of living. An atmosphere of off-shoring and foreign competition has created a xenophobic attitude.

What is the solution then? Well for starters we could start by reaching out to members of the working class who are willing to listen, such as immigrants and blacks, while telling those who won't the truth anyways. If Marx was right, working class savings are an aberration that time will correct.

[mikelepore]

Most people think that an an idea is worth talking about only in relationship to the question of whether other people are already heard to be talking about it. If they already hear people talking about an issue, they think to themselves that it's a "current" topic, and they begin talking about it also. If you say something revolutionary to people, their habit is to consider, not whether you seem to be right or wrong, but how unusual it is to say such a thing. If others are not already discussing that subject, if it doesn't get mentioned on the TV talk shows, then it's just not on the agenda for conversation. The thought of establishing a classless and worker-run society is even worse than the craziest conspiracy and paranormal theories, because at least there have been TV specials about those conspiracy and paranormal theories.

Voters vote the same way, not just asking themselves what they believe it, but with most of their attention on the question of who is probable to win, as though the purpose in voting were similar to the purpose in betting on a horse race, not an attempt to cause the winner, but to predict the winner.

[Optiow]

The whole US society has been built in a capitalist fashion, to oppose communism and socialism - because they are a danger to its influence. Due to the Cold War, communists are still misunderstood in American society, and many Americans still think the communist party is banned. This is due to their lack of information and their lack of wanting information.

[Stephen Colbert]

Those damn commies with their big government and their laziness...

[NoOneIsIllegal]

Where's the left in this country? In the workplaces. They have yet to realize their radical ideas. I suggest we help lead them towards it. Jus' sayin'

[The Idler]

Well,

1. The Media refuses to focus on the Left.
2. Maybe 60 years of anti Socialist Propaganda would help?
3. The Majority of Americans are Lazy with short attention spans. They wouldn't want to go and research politics let alone anything
60 years of anti Socialist Propaganda would not help.

[Qayin]

60 years of anti Socialist Propaganda would not help.
It was obvious sarcasm.

[mikelepore]

Why say "60 years" of anti-socialist propaganda? It goes back to the eary 1800s.

The Communist Manifesto is largely an answer to the propaganda. -- "A spectre is haunting Europe -- the spectre of communism." -- "It has been objected that upon the abolition of private property, all work will cease, and universal laziness will overtake us. According to this, bourgeois society ought long ago to have gone to the dogs through sheer idleness; for those who acquire anything, do not work."

In the 1840s the schools, churches, newspapers and politicians were already running in high gear to denounce the evil and dangerous ideas.