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Buffalo Souljah
17th July 2010, 06:01
fyi, there is also an accompanying documentary which I have yet to watch (don't really care for film:it's for the lazy!):



Even in lean times, the $400 billion business of higher education is booming. Nowhere is this more true than in one of the fastest-growing -- and most controversial -- sectors of the industry: for-profit colleges and universities that cater to non-traditional students, often confer degrees over the Internet, and, along the way, successfully capture billions of federal financial aid dollars.

Graduates of [a] for-profit school -- a college nursing program in California -- tell FRONTLINE that they received their diplomas without ever setting foot in a hospital. Graduates at other for-profit schools report being unable to find a job, or make their student loan payments, because their degree was perceived to be of little worth by prospective employers. One woman who enrolled in a for-profit doctorate program in Dallas later learned that the school never acquired the proper accreditation she would need to get the job she trained for. She is now sinking in over $200,000 in student debt.
The biggest player in the for-profit sector is the University of Phoenix -- now the largest college in the US with total enrollment approaching half a million students. Its revenues of almost $4 billion last year, up 25 percent from 2008, have made it a darling of Wall Street. Former top executive of the University of Phoenix Mark DeFusco (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/collegeinc/interviews/defusco.html) told FRONTLINE how the company's business-approach to higher education has paid off: "If you think about any business in America, what business would give up two months of business -- just essentially close down?" he asks. "[At the University of Phoenix], people go to school all year round. We start classes every five weeks. We built campuses by a freeway because we figured that's where the people were."


"The education system that was created hundreds of years ago needs to change," says Michael Clifford (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/collegeinc/interviews/clifford.html), a major education entrepreneur who speaks with FRONTLINE. Clifford, a former musician who never attended college, purchases struggling traditional colleges and turns them into for-profit companies. "The big opportunity," he says, "is the inefficiencies of some of the state systems, and the ability to transform schools and academic programs to better meet the needs of the people that need jobs."

"From a business perspective, it's a great story," says Jeffrey Silber (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/collegeinc/interviews/silber.html), a senior analyst at BMO Capital Markets, the investment banking arm of the Bank of Montreal. "You're serving a market that's been traditionally underserved. ... And it's a very profitable business -- it generates a lot of free cash flow."


And the cash cow of the for-profit education industry is the federal government. Though they enroll 10 percent of all post-secondary students, for-profit schools receive almost a quarter of federal financial aid. But Department of Education figures for 2009 show that 44 percent of the students who defaulted within three years of graduation were from for-profit schools, leading to serious questions about one of the key pillars of the profit degree college movement: that their degrees help students boost their earning power. This is a subject of increasing concern to the Obama administration, which, last month, remade the federal student loan program, and is now proposing changes that may make it harder for the for-profit colleges to qualify.

source (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/collegeinc/view/): PBS FRONTLINE


So, instead of working to reform our struggling state institutions we should privatize them and turn them into tools of exploitation? I think that's rather ludicrous, but is to be expected, if we look at the overwhelming evidence that supports the thesis that corporations support the existence of a hated "nanny'" state that bails them out at the cost of the people. These new "schools" are exploiting the wages of real workers simply by receiving massive amounts of federal financial aid! Luckily, there is some reform being achieved on this front. However, I'm fearful whatever changes will be made simply won't be enough.

This continues the cycle of shoveling profits into the hands of the super rich at the expense of the poor, and is exactly what needs to be stopped, if we are going to turn our country and our world in a positive direction, if we want to achieve a true sort of "globalization", where peoples and cultures are interconnected and share resources, and not where some simply live in opulence while others starve. That is not the sort of globalization that benefits the vast majority of people in the world, whose governments apparently don't care a hoot about what they think, if actions like illegal sanctions against Cuba and Iran serve as any token of representation or our intervention in Yugoslavia a decade ago or in the Philippines a century further, to pick some seemingly at random. There is a marked difference in the opinions of the majority of the American populations and the diplomatic and military tactics of the U.S. government. There is a great book by Benjamin Page and Marshall Bouton on the subject which is not to be missed. (Page, Bouton 2006)

The fact that these individuals believe they are "helping" communities by such initiatives is vastly beyond what would be redeemable through claims of ignorance--that's just evil! We could go around and around pointing fingers, but I think there are some salient societal features (hegemony of political parties, corruption and bribery, etc.) that prevent us (ie., workers: poor) from solving this dilemma by simply "working withing" the existing set of rules, which are skewed and benefit the rich. I think more drastic measures are called for, the proper foundation for which is not yet conceivable at the present, though reality can sometimes be surprising.

Buffalo Souljah
17th July 2010, 06:17
I have to point out that I am, in a way here, criticizing PBS, or "taking them to task", I could say rather: that in schematizing the situation at hand there was no analysis of the deeper implications, perhaps causal ties like the interrelation of poverty, race, economic depravity & the effects of neoliberal reforms of the 1970's in contributing to the decay of the American system of public education and require such drastic measures, to name but a few. The article fails to get at the root of the matter, and thus does not form a clear or concise picture of how to address the problem. Granted, it is only a 2 or three pages article, and so there isn't enough space to cover everything, but certainly a more lucid approach would have been desireable.

Namely, with regard to the problems and issues at hand, certain solutions immediately arise: apropos, stop the flight of capital and the financialization of the economy, redistribute wealth and raise wages & benefits, allow for labor reform, stop corporate tax evasion and corporate subsidy & "bailouts" and on and on. I know, one line of defense is that "at least PBS is not siding with the Republicans on this one", but, you have to ask yourself if the enemy of your enemy is really your friend?

Raúl Duke
17th July 2010, 06:24
I never trusted private universities...much less these scam-types which are usually obvious to notice.

I don't even trust much a leftist or activist from a private university...

Currently, I'm in a public university.

Buffalo Souljah
17th July 2010, 06:45
I never trusted private universities...much less these scam-types which are usually obvious to notice.

I don't even trust much a leftist or activist from a private university...



Yes, you'd be hard-pressed to find even a classical liberal at an Ivy League school these days, let alone a punk or someone that walked down the wrong side of the street at any point in their life, or has so much as jay walked--those sort of people don't tend to crop up there very often (though there are some exceptions: Mary Gluck at Brown and then of course people like Oppenheimer and Einstein, and some of the "classic" scholars from the "Princeton Circle" [though many of them were ex-pats, so I'm not sure if they even count!])!




Currently, I'm in a public university.Oooh... lovely; which one, pray tell, & what do you study?

Raúl Duke
17th July 2010, 07:06
Oooh... lovely; which one, pray tell, & what do you study?I'm at FGCU (Ft Myers Fl; SWFL)....it sucks but sometimes you can find some down-to-earth people I guess.
I've considered returning to Miami (go to FIU)...

I'm majoring in history with a minor in Anthropology and Journalism. I plan to go to grad school (public grad school) for either journalism or anthropology in New York City sometime in the future.

Adi Shankara
17th July 2010, 08:39
Reading this makes me want to sob for America.
why does everything have to be privatized? education is one of those things that can't be turned into a for profit business, because every degree won't be a profitable one, even if they provide a valuable service to society.

for example, WWII historians, wouldn't be considered very valuable to a corporation and thus their education would be overlooked completely. however, no one can deny that they contribute a valuable public service to society.

what the hell is wrong with America? why do we have to make everything into a business? what happens to schools that aren't profitable? degrees that aren't profitable? are they just simply removed from the curriculum?

I'm disgusted.

M-26-7
17th July 2010, 08:54
Many of these for-profit universities basically exist by stealing taxpayer money, in the form of government student loans. They have atrocious graduation rates, but they don't care, because they've already pocketed a few semesters worth of student loan money by the time their students drop out.

Sperm-Doll Setsuna
17th July 2010, 08:57
Many of these for-profit universities basically exist by stealing taxpayers' money, in the form of government student loans. They have atrocious graduation rates, but they don't care, because they've already pocketed a few semesters' worth of student loan money by the time their students drop out.

It's just a question of time before the U.S. enacts "school voucher" reforms for all public education, I'm sure.

I remember when it happened here. The chaos and horror.

Hiratsuka
17th July 2010, 16:25
I never trusted private universities...

I don't even trust much a leftist or activist from a private university...

That's stupid. Most private universities are not-for-profit thanks to the accreditation agencies (which are also private), and they offer students a different environment than the big public universities. Public and not-for-profit private universities are run the exact same way. Some students and families just simply prefer small class sizes and the "feel" of a campus where you aren't rushed getting from one side to another. It's a lot easier to make friends (for some people), safer, and may include a unique pedagogy not found anywhere else.

The University of Phoenix, or at least schools like it, are scams (and a lot of students who enroll already realize they're not gaining much prestige out of the endeavor), but damning private schools does not make one more "revolutionary." The people attending the local Christian university have more in common with American workers than the students going to Berkeley, a public institution, regardless of what most students from this latter institution may believe.

I'm a child of public universities, but I'm not a fan of pseudo-leftist moralism judging people for attending private schools or helping out charities.

KC
17th July 2010, 19:32
Public universities are basically already for-profit.

Adi Shankara
17th July 2010, 19:38
Public universities are basically already for-profit.

Obvious troll is obvious

Raúl Duke
17th July 2010, 19:47
but I'm not a fan of pseudo-leftist moralism judging people for attending private schools or helping out charities. Most activists I met are from private universities and are more financially privileged than I am.

I don't see what they have to gain personally in socialism or activism besides it being some sort of hobby for them. They're not affected by gentrification, lack of resources, etc. There's no moralism behind it, just an observation that these comrades have more money/access to resources than I have.

ChrisK
17th July 2010, 22:17
Obvious troll is obvious

When were you last in college? Public universities function very much on a profit model.

Adi Shankara
17th July 2010, 22:35
When were you last in college? Public universities function very much on a profit model.

I go to college in the bay area. it's a public state funded school

ChrisK
17th July 2010, 23:38
I go to college in the bay area. it's a public state funded school

Well I go to a public college in Washington and I remember the wonderful experience of having to fight the administration to get back courses so that students could graduate. They laid off numerous teachers because they were doing the equivelent of "controlling labor." Funnily, they never once thought about cutting their 100,000+ dollar salaries, just getting rid of profs. If that isn't functioning in a business, for profit manner, then I don't know what is.

Hiratsuka
18th July 2010, 04:12
Most activists I met are from private universities and are more financially privileged than I am.

I don't see what they have to gain personally in socialism or activism besides it being some sort of hobby for them. They're not affected by gentrification, lack of resources, etc. There's no moralism behind it, just an observation that these comrades have more money/access to resources than I have.

I'm still left wondering why you made a scathing criticism of students who attend private universities. Like I said, a student who attends Berkeley or any of the "public ivies" is more likely to come from a privileged background than the overall student body of many regional Catholic and Protestant liberal arts colleges.

And more importantly, if what the mainstream media refers to as "middle class" families have nothing to benefit from socialism, it's a doomed endeavor.

Buffalo Souljah
18th July 2010, 04:33
Public universities are basically already for-profit.


Obvious troll is obvious


When were you last in college? Public universities function very much on a profit model.


I go to college in the bay area. it's a public state funded school


Well I go to a public college in Washington and I remember the wonderful experience of having to fight the administration to get back courses so that students could graduate. They laid off numerous teachers because they were doing the equivelent of "controlling labor." Funnily, they never once thought about cutting their 100,000+ dollar salaries, just getting rid of profs. If that isn't functioning in a business, for profit manner, then I don't know what is.

To the above, I would say that, though there are marked similarities between the two spheres (the state and private industry), the divisions are more apparent and meaningful than these are. For instance, just taking as a statistical gauge the level of diversity of courseloads available at a public versus a private university, or the economic situation of either system, the divisions are definite and rather salient.

I will add, in passing, that the "liberalizing" effects of economic reform during the Nixon and Carter administration that came to a crux under Reagan and Thatcher have had significant effects on (externalities) every sphere affected by the economic paradigm, the education system notwithstanding. These effects are most noticable, within the sphere of education, in the decline of teachers' unions, the rapid shrinking of tenured teaching positions (20% less now than thirty years ago) and the general decadence of possible educational ambitions, ie., a slackening of academic rigor as a result of shifted emphasis (profit & careerism as opposed to long-term goals). We notice that most political commentators compare political campaigns to advertising and marketing campaigns, and I don't think they're so far off the mark! Another comparison that is made is that of the arms industry or the Internet, both of which began as publicly-funded and managed enterprises. Though the former aspect still remains through government subsidy & the tax system, the latter has largely been eradicated in favor of more traditional "business-oriented" approaches, with an obvious effect on the quality of R&D within these institutions, which is directed more towards market trends and novelty than actual improvements to the quality of life in ordinary citizens.

Buffalo Souljah
18th July 2010, 07:21
There is a book written about the subject of education privatization, The Death and Life of the Great American School System by Diane Ravitch. I have not read it, but thought I would throw that out there nevertheless. She refers to the process of state-sanctioned privatization "a timetable for demoliting public education in the United States", an interpretation that should certainly be taken seriously.

Hiratsuka
18th July 2010, 16:51
There's a difference between privatizing the entire education system and allowing families from all backgrounds to have a choice in what school their children attend, however. I'm rather taken back by how socialist organizations are appalled at the very idea of school vouchers. While I acknowledge many proponents of school choice are currently reactionary in their ambitions, it's not fair to constrain poor and middle class students to one set of schools. I wouldn't want children being forced to attend their local public state college, after all.

Having options is not antithetical to socialism. Some of the reforms suggested should be taken into consideration with a balanced perspective. Education has become so politicized that I'm left wondering if any helpful change can occur in the immediate future.

leftace53
18th July 2010, 17:18
Why is everyone's font so big? :blink:

I absolutely hate the commodification of education, as if knowledge is something that should be bought and sold. Knowledge should be open to anyone and everyone, and treating a school system like a corporation is inhumane in a sense. Running a school for profit is the same as running healthcare stuff for profit, it trades in quality for a fake efficiency.

t.shonku
19th July 2010, 02:58
In countries like India the number of private universities that offer professional degrees(full contact programme) have risen to a astronomical rate and govt encourages this growth bcoz they get money from these colleges.The govt is intentionally destroying the govt universities so that everybody go to the private ones.Funny part is that the private universities give adds in TV and Radio just like any soap company would.
Actually in India the number of Engineers are more than the number of engines lol.