Life, liberty, and the pursuit of Socialism

[Jimmie Higgins]

Here's some entertaining red-baiting from an op-ed by a libertarian in a San Diego LGBT website. "Stay class-enemy San Diego".

He does a great job of making an ass of himself and giving the ISO some free advertising in the process. With enemies like this... I can only think the left is on the verge of a new upsurge.

http://sdgln.com/commentary/2010/07/01/life-liberty-and-pursuit-socialism

Here are some of my favorite lines...


Russia (Stalin), Germany (Hitler), China (Mao), & the USSR are concrete examples of nations destroyed by some form of Socialism.Shhh... don't tell him that Russia and the USSR are the same.


Socialists talk a good game about rights and freedoms, but it's the same strategy they have used against minorities for decades. They pretend to support equality in order to garner votes, but they keep minority groups in poverty or second-class status to maintain control. (Just Google the “Cloward-Piven strategy” if you don’t believe me.) I googled it: "The Cloward–Piven strategy is a political strategy outlined by Richard Cloward (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Cloward) and Frances Fox Piven (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Fox_Piven), then both sociologists and political activists at the Columbia University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_University) School of Social Work". So not only does Dr. Redbaiter not know that the USSR was Russia... he also doesn't know what "Sociologist" means and how it is different than "Socialist".

And the published response:
http://sdgln.com/commentary/2010/07/13/commentary-what-socialists-stand-rebuttal-arlon-jay-staggs

Apparently we only support LGBT rights to "get votes" ... and then we are elected President and tell our supporters that it's "not realistic" and we shouldn't "move too fast" on reforms we promised in the election. Wait, we're Obama right? Socialists are Obama, isn't that what everyone's been saying on the TV?

Now add you comments below to this moronic red-baiting and we can all play: "Beat up the Straw-man"

[Crimson Commissar]

Hah, I love those idiots that think National Socialism really IS Socialist. :lol:

[#FF0000]

Hah, I love those idiots that think National Socialism really IS Socialist. :lol:

I like how the Nazi party kept socialist in their name to trick dumb people into believing they were, you know socialist, and it's still tricking stupid people 80 years later.

[Jazzhands]

I like how the Nazi party kept socialist in their name to trick dumb people into believing they were, you know socialist, and it's still tricking stupid people 80 years later.

Mein Kampf says they only did that to piss off the left, but who can guess the mind of a fascist.

There's nothing to say about these people. They do it themselves. fucking reactionaries. He said we promise "rights" as one of the things we give out in order to get control as the bait and switch that takes away...rights? wait, what? these people are fucking stupid.

[#FF0000]

Mein Kampf says they only did that to piss off the left, but who can guess the mind of a fascist.

Fucking Hitler trolls us from beyond the grave.

[Loknar]

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --Adolf Hitler

(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)

I would encourage people here to examine the nazi political philosophy. The Nazis were left leaning. Please can anyone tell me why they would be comparable to a right wing movement?

The truth is that Nazis were unique. They were fervent nationalists and racists (although Karl marx was as well.

[RedScare]

Please can anyone tell me why they would be comparable to a right wing movement?
Something to do with the awful racism and such. Ya know.

[Loknar]

And you think racism isnt common on both sides of the political spectrum?

[Jimmie Higgins]

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --Adolf Hitler

(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)

I would encourage people here to examine the nazi political philosophy. The Nazis were left leaning. Please can anyone tell me why they would be comparable to a right wing movement?

The truth is that Nazis were unique. They were fervent nationalists and racists (although Karl marx was as well.

Did you read the post quoted below before you posted?

I like how the Nazi party kept socialist in their name to trick dumb people into believing they were, you know socialist, and it's still tricking stupid people 80 years later.

Judge a system by what it does, not what it says and claims. Or do you also believe that the Kings of France were chosen by God?

The NAZI membership in 1927 was made up of friecorps and many vigilantes who fought AGAINST the left and against the several worker uprisings. It was a reactionary movement - specifically a reaction to 1917 and the radical and frequently revolutionary workers movement in Germany that followed. The fact that libertarians can find a few sentences by Hitler - a man 2nd only to Fidel Castro in being known for long rambling incoherent speeches (oops I might get some shit for that comment:lol:) - that show him claiming some crazy thing is pretty weak-ass evidence.

American libertarians and the like (but not in Europe where the history of NAZIs and the right-wing and bourgeois and ruling class collaborators in Germany, France, Spain, Italy, and so on are still to fresh to be re-written) have decided to correct reality's left-wing bias by concocting new definitions for what constitutes left and right. Now they base it on state power or lack of state power or the level of "collectivism".

Contrary to the claims of libertarians, strengthening of the state is a characteristic of "socialism" or the left, it is a feature of capitalism (and state-capitalism for similar reasons). The centralization and strength of the US state has grown along with industrial power - in fact the industrial system need a strong state to back up national firms, keep trade open or closed depending on the interests involved, they also need a state that can repress the population or pass reforms to try and ease social tensions and allow the continuation of business. In Germany, the bourgeois created a centralized state so that their growing industrial might could compete with England's military might and control of territories - Japan the same thing - and even the USSR and China used the power of the state to build industrial powers.

NAZIs are not leftists, they are reactionaries who arise in order to brutally enforce social inequality and smash independent workers movements.

[#FF0000]

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --Adolf Hitler

(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)

I would encourage people here to examine the nazi political philosophy. The Nazis were left leaning. Please can anyone tell me why they would be comparable to a right wing movement?

You are a big dumb guy.

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-hitler.htm

Take a read through that, k?


The truth is that Nazis were unique. They were fervent nationalists and racists (although Karl marx was as well.

No he wasn't?

[#FF0000]

But then again it's not like Hitler killed thousands and thousands of communists, social democrats, and Trade Unionists. Oh wait.

And we know how honest a guy Hitler was, and how he wasn't the type of guy to try to seize power by any means necessary. Oh wait.

And we all know that he had broad and loyal support from the working class of Germany. Oh. Wait.

And besides it's not like right-wing folks like Hayek have said good things about fascism, saying it's preferable to socialism and saved Europe from socialism.

O
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[Jazzhands]

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --Adolf Hitler

(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)

I would encourage people here to examine the nazi political philosophy. The Nazis were left leaning. Please can anyone tell me why they would be comparable to a right wing movement?

The truth is that Nazis were unique. They were fervent nationalists and racists (although Karl marx was as well.

There's a reason we call it "proletarian internationalism." "Workers of THE WORLD, unite." The INTERNATIONALE. etc. where the hell would you get that idea? I've seen some Kool-aid before but the stuff Glenn Beck has you people drinking now must be laced with roofies or something.

[RGacky3]

And you think racism isnt common on both sides of the political spectrum?

Its much more common on the right side, and for good reason.

[Baseball]

There's a reason we call it "proletarian internationalism." "Workers of THE WORLD, unite." The INTERNATIONALE. etc. where the hell would you get that idea?

Historically, internationalism and nationalism are the opoisite side of the same coin. Its why folks like Marx could support both German and Italian national unification. Its much easier and practical to organise the workers along national rather than international lines.

[Che a chara]

I like how the Nazi party kept socialist in their name to trick dumb people into believing they were, you know socialist, and it's still tricking stupid people 80 years later.


Mein Kampf says they only did that to piss off the left, but who can guess the mind of a fascist.

Anyone know the exact quote ?

[#FF0000]

I don't think it was in Mein Kampf or anything but the Nazis were pretty close to dropping "socialist" from the name if I recall correctly. They didn't want to scare off the nationalist "Middle Class" Germans with it. I think they contended that they said "Socialist" meant giving social welfare to "true Germans/Aryans" or something like that.