Union leaders salaries

[RepublicanSocialist]

Im new to the site, so apologies if this has been discussed before but was just wondering how do Union leaders justify their often huge salaries?

I feel these salaries totally alienate them from the working people they represent. I feel they divide working people as many workers dont want to contribute a part of their wages to what they see as astronomical wages and they put Union leaders into a position where their main reason for existence is to make sure they keep collecting their salaries.

I am not of course criticising all Union leaders and I realise that the situation is different all over the world but certainly in Ireland and Britain, the leaders of the big Unions are on money that working class people can only dream of.

I am in no way anti Union ( I am a proud Union member) and believe they are the best way of defending and educating working people and I cant see how there would ever be a Socialist revolution without them. But, can someone who earns £100,000 a year really have the interests of the working class at heart?

[bricolage]

Im new to the site, so apologies if this has been discussed before but was just wondering how do Union leaders justify their often huge salaries?

From my experience they tend to just ignore the issue and not answer any questions on it.

[Raúl Duke]

Im new to the site, so apologies if this has been discussed before but was just wondering how do Union leaders justify their often huge salaries?

I feel these salaries totally alienate them from the working people they represent. I feel they divide working people as many workers dont want to contribute a part of their wages to what they see as astronomical wages and they put Union leaders into a position where their main reason for existence is to make sure they keep collecting their salaries.

I am not of course criticising all Union leaders and I realise that the situation is different all over the world but certainly in Ireland and Britain, the leaders of the big Unions are on money that working class people can only dream of.

I am in no way anti Union ( I am a proud Union member) and believe they are the best way of defending and educating working people and I cant see how there would ever be a Socialist revolution without them. But, can someone who earns £100,000 a year really have the interests of the working class at heart?

Union leader salaries and their relative position in itself could lead them to cozying up with business interests. For (a local, in your case) example, recently the head of a Irish trade union (or of all Irish trade unions) signed up a deal to not strike for a certain period of time with the government. (http://wsws.org/articles/2010/jun2010/irel-j28.shtml)

He probably doesn't live on an average worker's salary so the current economic crisis doesn't affect him personally and thus what would he know about the hardships the average Irish worker would be facing during this crisis?

[RepublicanSocialist]

From my experience they tend to just ignore the issue and not answer any questions on it.

I suppose it is up to us as Union members to hold these people to account and not accept the situation as it is. This can be hard though if when voting for people in a ballot, they are pretty much all the same!

[Thirsty Crow]

I am in no way anti Union ( I am a proud Union member) and believe they are the best way of defending and educating working people and I cant see how there would ever be a Socialist revolution without them. But, can someone who earns £100,000 a year really have the interests of the working class at heart?
Wait, what?
Are you telling me that union leaders in UK earn a HUNDRED THOUSAND punds per year??? :blink::blink::blink: (this is an actual question since I haven't heard that information)

As far as I am concerned, union leaders are massively overpaid (in Croatia I think they earn at leats twice as more as workers whom they represent; of course, this is a sort of a generalization, but I think it holds true). And this is only the tip of the iceberg. Recieving such a dispproportionate wage puts them in a position of a "labour buffer": their duty is to reach a compromise with which both sides would be happy, also known as "social partnership".
As such, they are a hindrance to workers' education, self-education, and involvment in radical struggles. But of course I do not imply that all of the work that has been done by such unions is irrelevant. Every single action of solidarity, every single strike that DID further the interests of workers is worthy of praise.
However, I will always be sceptical of "yellow" unions As I've said, they are structurally (the leadership) occupying a different position within the labour process, one that makes them prone to all sorts of sellout (as history taught us that this is the case).

[RepublicanSocialist]

I took the figure of £100,000 at random. I dont think it would be too far off though for the biggest Unions.

I agree with your post in general but I disagree with you when you say Unions are a hinderance to workers education and involvement in radical struggles. Unions are often the first place a worker comes into contact with ideas of Socialism and where he or she might become active in workers struggles.

[The Red Next Door]

If your union leaders are getting more money than you or sucking up to big interest, then it time to get rid of them, cause just crazy.

[redwog]

My union, (teacher in NSW, Australia); pays all officials comparative rates to those teachers still in service.

Also, only members can become officials, so no 'professional' union officials, only teachers. This ranges from senior officers through to industrial officers, organisers and even those that staff the phones to provide industrial advice.

Organisers receive a supervising teacher's wage. The Snr Officers receive Prinicpal or Deputy Principal (or Head Teacher in UK) wages.

Whilst it is more democratic and is much better than most unions in Australia (or comparable western economies), such a structure in and of itself does not prevent the union from engaging in similar practices to all unions such as appeasement and bargaining away class interests.

[Adil3tr]

This is union bureaucracy, it happens when union leaders become friendly with capitalists, when they "work together" with the bosses. Its still a union though.

[AK]

The fact is, the vast majority of unions that are allowed to exist and organise under capitalism seek to gain nothing but concessions for the working class whilst ignoring the bigger picture. I do not support these unions. It should come as no surprise that the union management is paid big bucks. Most unions have become nothing but organs of the ruling class; allowing workers the illusion of fair labour and a just system whilst keeping capitalism - along with the evils of wage slavery and worker exploitation that it propagates - stable. Down with these middle-class union bureaucrats! They do nothing but support their own class interests.

[StoneFrog]

Its the first sign of a capitalist union.

Its the same with the union my dad is in, it just fucks the workers up over and over doesn't even fight for the worker but just uses them for the membership fees. Its the reason i don't like unions, even revolutionary unions have fallen to capitalist greed.

[Bubbles]

In Sweden the chairman for the biggest union makes about five time as much as an ordinary worker. It sucks. The union got big problems, and often sit in the lap of the bosses. My union section is corrupt as fuck and the representatives administrates a staffing company which make our working conditions worse. I often got a feel that they want to administrate capitalism rather then standing on our side. It is also a big problem that people see the union as an insurance company instead of something that you organize and fight in. I think if the people hired by the union did not get more paid then an ordinary worker. But a tactic the employer can use is to make ombudsmen and so on go higher in the companies hierarchy to make his interest split if they don't get paid enough. But i don't know, im pretty mad at my union right know.

[Jolly Red Giant]

I took the figure of £100,000 at random. I dont think it would be too far off though for the biggest Unions.
RS - in Ireland 100,000 would be on the low side for national officials - and it wouldn't include expenses.

Prime example is the former General Sec of the CWU who along with receiving something like 135K as GS was also the ESOP representative on the Eircom board. His directors salary was (actually still is because he is still there) over 100K a year. He has a yearly pension scheme that is estimated at 70K a year when he retires and received a 1million bonus the last time the company was floated on the stock market (for facilitating the flotation). When the entire package of salaries and expenses and pension rights was put together it was estimated at being worth something like 7million to 10million euro over the past 10 years. He was shafted out of the union GS job by the other officials who were p*ssed that they weren't getting any of the pie - but he is still the union rep on the board of the company.


I agree with your post in general but I disagree with you when you say Unions are a hinderance to workers education and involvement in radical struggles. Unions are often the first place a worker comes into contact with ideas of Socialism and where he or she might become active in workers struggles.
Correct - at times of struggle workers will instinctively move towards union activity.

[RepublicanSocialist]

Some good examples there of why Trade Unionism is at a low ebb at the moment.

With the recent assaults on jobs, pay and working conditions all over Europe (and elsewhere) I hope that millitancy in Unions will increase, forcing out the bureaucrats and providing a place to educate working people and advance our struggle.

I suppose its up to us as members to use our voices within the Union to bring about change. It certainly isnt easy though. I really do believe that having radical, strong Unions is vital for any Socialist or Communist revolution.

[redwog]

The material conditions might seem like it would lead workers (back) to unions, but this does not explain why unions have shrunk all over Canada, US, Western Europe, and Australia.

Unions suffered systematic and sustained attack for the last 30 years. Indeed so has the working class. I mentioned this in another post, but the massive 'deindustrialisation' by going off-shore/over the border shattered the mass factory as a sight of struggle. Add the aggressive use of scabs, technology, and anti-union laws, and it helps explain the situation,

The class lost its foothold, the unions lost their capacity to organise the working class (which they rarely did for revolutionary means) and we have all been left trying to defend the remnants of social democracy won in the period post war until the 1970s. In Australia the peak union group made an incredibly regressive series of settlements with the government in the early 1980s (know here as the 'accords') where they traded off wage (and wage struggles) for social wage gains (never actually delivered).

Today, small weak unions are usually are a reflection of the small and relative weakness of the class, or at least particular segments of the class. The only sizeable unions that are left are public employee unions. The most under-unionised section that offers potential is in the service sector. A very difficult forum to apply traditional union methods.

[Jolly Red Giant]

Prime example is the former General Sec of the CWU who along with receiving something like 135K as GS was also the ESOP representative on the Eircom board. His directors salary was (actually still is because he is still there) over 100K a year. He has a yearly pension scheme that is estimated at 70K a year when he retires and received a 1million bonus the last time the company was floated on the stock market (for facilitating the flotation). When the entire package of salaries and expenses and pension rights was put together it was estimated at being worth something like 7million to 10million euro over the past 10 years. He was shafted out of the union GS job by the other officials who were p*ssed that they weren't getting any of the pie - but he is still the union rep on the board of the company.
Just a bit of added information on this guy - apparently he has just 'retired' as a board member - claiming approximately 750K in severence pay and a pension of 75K a year. He is still general manager of the ESOT which nets him something like 70K a year as well.