Cuban socialism...

[fa2991]

Why exactly do some socialists consider Cuba to be a genuinely socialist country?

Even if you accept their democratic process as legitimate, in what ways do Cuban workers have control over Cuban industry and MOP? Aren't Cuban factories and workplaces still run in a basically top-down fashion?

[Tatarin]

I don't know if 'they' consider it to be completely socialist, I've only heard about Cuba being "the closest thing" to socialism yet.

However, they do have some sort of system, like "voting upwards" or something like that. Not to mention that their next-door neighbour is the most powerful imperialist to date.

[RedSonRising]

Why exactly do some socialists consider Cuba to be a genuinely socialist country?

Even if you accept their democratic process as legitimate, in what ways do Cuban workers have control over Cuban industry and MOP? Aren't Cuban factories and workplaces still run in a basically top-down fashion?

The democratic process extends to leaders in education and industry and health and community functions. The relationship between the workers and the means of production has varied throughout the revolution, with efficiency going up and down as effective design of elected representative workplace management measures changed throughout previous decades.

The book "Cuba: A different America" is a study done by an English journalist that takes an objective look at the conditions within the workplace and the economy throughout different periods post-revolution. Personally I would classify the Cuban political economy as State Socialist, which is something I don't find successful in many other instances in history. It's certainly a far cry from communism, but using the State as an authority to implement the empowerment of the working class with the resources they have has allowed impressive advances in health and education despite a crippling embargo and international trade isolation up until recent collaboration with Bolivarian States. I don't think that a bureaucratic capitalist class within the Cuban State controlling a majority of the economy's production decisions would result in what has occurred. Decentralization and an increase in workplace autonomy would do the revolutionary program a lot of good, but the representation and influence the working citizens have on the forces that control their lives can be seen as an authentic form of socialism.

[RadioRaheem84]

I don't know how anyone couldn't see it as the closest thing to socialism on earth? I mean there were so many times when the Cuban government couldv'e just chucked everything out the window and become another banana republic, but it fought out hard and still provided the citizenry with a modicum of decent standard of living. The fact that Cuba doesn't have to retain all the gains it has made in the revolution and could resort to giving into imperialism is astounding.

[el_chavista]

Cuba is an outstanding example of a victorious movement of national liberation in an economically backward country.

[Forward Union]

Given the monumental problems in the world today, I think attacking a relativlyt progressive island nation is a waste of efforts.

[Cyberwave]

Given the monumental problems in the world today, I think attacking a relativlyt progressive island nation is a waste of efforts.

Well, the point is that Cuba is more of a radically progressive nation, not a socialist nation. And even still there are more liberal capitalist positions being taken by the Castro clique.

[mykittyhasaboner]

Well, the point is that Cuba is more of a radically progressive nation, not a socialist nation. And even still there are more liberal capitalist positions being taken by the Castro clique.

Such as?

[Burn A Flag]

Some of the agricultural system is run by cooperatives. The cooperatives have to fufill certain government quotas, but then they can sell all their surplus for a profit.

This sort of shows how Cuba is still state capitalist, but closer to socialism than anywhere else.

[Cyberwave]

Such as?

Castroite Revisionism and Liberal Capitalist Reforms. (http://coffeemarxist.wordpress.com/2010/04/20/castroite-revisionism/)
Marxist-Leninist Analysis of Cuba. (http://ml-review.ca/aml/CommunistLeague/Compass101-Cuba92.htm)
State-Capitalism and Cuba. (http://home.flash.net/~comvoice/00Cuba.html)

[InuyashaKnight]

Cuba is today the best example of close to genuine communism.

[Raúl Duke]

Some of the agricultural system is run by cooperatives. The cooperatives have to fufill certain government quotas, but then they can sell all their surplus for a profit.

The last part reminds me of the NEP.


Cuba is today the best example of close to genuine communism.

You mean socialism.

Communism is state-less and there's no accumulatative money/capital.

[RedSonRising]

Some of the agricultural system is run by cooperatives. The cooperatives have to fufill certain government quotas, but then they can sell all their surplus for a profit.

This sort of shows how Cuba is still state capitalist, but closer to socialism than anywhere else.


I don't think cooperatives selling surplus makes the country state-capitalist. Those who work and produce from the agriculture are the ones who own the products and control what they do with them. There is nobody who owns the cooperatives' means of production, so there is no capitalist class arising from it. I get confused when people point at cooperatives as evidence of a lack of socialsim when they are workplace democracies practicing the principle that those who produce own the fruits of their labor, forgive me if I misunderstand what you're trying to say in your statement. Just because a market exists does not mean there is State Capitalism.

[KurtFF8]

If the state is truly democratic and participatory (as many have pointed out), and the state owns the means of production. How, in a Marxist sense at least, would this not also equate to mass ownership over the means of production?

I suppose the question for those would would disagree is whether Cuba is really a workers' state or not.