British Scientists Prove the chicken came before the egg.... apparently

[Coggeh]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5h1fOal4ZJcNFhfaTE5DFAyHH__MA



LONDON — What came first, the chicken or the egg? Scientists in Britain think it was probably the chicken, after using new computer technology to try and crack the age-old riddle.
Researchers at the Universities of Sheffield and Warwick, in northern and central England, say the secret lies in the eggshell -- specifically the vital role played by a chicken protein in forming it.
Scientists already knew that the protein, vocledidin-17 (OC-17), plays a part in eggshell formation, but the new technology allowed the team to demonstrate exactly how the protein makes it happen.
See link above for rest.


This seems impossible to me , should it not be obvious that it was the egg that came first?
To simplify the chicken evolved from a species that laid egg's therfore when the chicken became a chicken then it would have had to come out of an egg! It seems ridiculous that it could be any other way .



This is seriously confusing, anyone care to shed some light? am i missing something?

[Klaatu]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5h1fOal4ZJcNFhfaTE5DFAyHH__MA


See link above for rest.


This seems impossible to me , should it not be obvious that it was the egg that came first?
To simplify the chicken evolved from a species that laid egg's therfore when the chicken became a chicken then it would have had to come out of an egg! It seems ridiculous that it could be any other way .



This is seriously confusing, anyone care to shed some light? am i missing something?

If the egg had come first, then by what mechanism, if not from the chicken?
Then I would ask the question: "where did the chicken itself come from?"

[Coggeh]

If the egg had come first, then by what mechanism, if not from the chicken?
Then I would ask the question: "where did the chicken itself come from?"
From the red junglefowl bird apparently. Which did lay eggs and when the mutated genes were separated from their parent population this created a new species which we know as the chicken. And for the chicken to exist it must have been born in the first place so it was the egg. Evolution has provided the answer

[x371322]

My head hurts...

[Coggeh]

My head hurts...
Its fair simple its not as complicated as the analogy would entail when you sit and think the egg is the only possiblity.

You have 2 definite things in the riddle:
A: A chicken cannot exist without an egg.

B: An Egg can exist without the chicken.

Therefore the only possibility is that the egg came first. And Evolution supports this.

Edit:

CNN has reported that the chicken and egg debated has finally been answered by experts.

Now a team made up of a geneticist, philosopher and chicken farmer claim to have found an answer. It was the egg.
Put simply, the reason is down to the fact that genetic material does not change during an animal’s life.
Therefore the first bird that evolved into what we would call a chicken, probably in prehistoric times, must have first existed as an embryo inside an egg.


Seems they just keep "answering" this question.

[Klaatu]

Therefore the only possibility is that the egg came first. And Evolution supports this.

I wonder what the mechanism is. That is, how did it come about? What is the detailed biological process involved?

[scarletghoul]

I always thought it was obviously the egg. Anyone with a basic understanding of evolution could deduce that.

But if its like a chicken protein exists first before an egg is formed, then this would of course mean that the chicken came first. hmmm

[deLarge]

That's impossible, unless the DNA can mutate after the egg is already formed?

[Ocean Seal]

This goes into semantics. Non Chicken Species mutates and passes on traits to the egg. Egg contains chicken. Is it a chicken egg because it has a chicken or a non-chicken egg because it was laid by a non-chicken species.

[mikelepore]

Since the birds evolved from the reptiles, wouldn't that push this problem back much further in time? Somehow the flexible calcareous egg of the reptile gradually led to the solid calcium carbonate shell of the bird's egg. Perhaps there were many intermediate stages, and nothing to point to where you can say there is the first chicken.

[Tatarin]

Interesting. Now, can they please turn to social studies and finally prove that socialism is way better than capitalism?

:D

[Coggeh]

Since the birds evolved from the reptiles, wouldn't that push this problem back much further in time? Somehow the flexible calcareous egg of the reptile gradually led to the solid calcium carbonate shell of the bird's egg. Perhaps there were many intermediate stages, and nothing to point to where you can say there is the first chicken.
They know the direct desendant of the chicken :
http://whyfiles.org/265animal_breeding/images/5red_junglefowl.jpgRed Junglefowl.
This chicken did lay eggs obviously and since the domestic chicken we all know and eat today is its descendant then the first "chicken" came from an egg of this bird!

Therfore without any doubt whatsoever THE .. EGG.. CAME..FUCKING ..FIRST! :mad:

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

It works only if you define eggs as containing vocledidin-17 (OC-17), otherwise the egg came first.

Since hen's eggs containing vocledidin-17 (OC-17) are not the only objects we call "eggs", the egg came first.

[Coggeh]

It works only if you define eggs as containing vocledidin-17 (OC-17), otherwise the egg came first.

Since hen's eggs containing vocledidin-17 (OC-17) are not the only objects we call "eggs", the egg came first.
Well the egg from a hen is obviously going to be in some way shape or form different, i don't think such a small difference should constitute saying the chicken came first...

Jesus this is so irrelevant lol

[Sir Comradical]

I denounce this bourgeois pseudo-science.

[Leonid Brozhnev]

The only thing this proves is that the Researchers at the Universities of Sheffield and Warwick have fuck all to do.

[x371322]

The only thing this proves is that the Researchers at the Universities of Sheffield and Warwick have fuck all to do.

Haha, yep. Never mind that cure for cancer fella's, better get to work on that chicken egg paradox!

[bobroberts]

The egg came first. The story only works if you define a chicken by it's ability to create the egg shell protein, which is stupid. The chickens which evolved the ability to create the protein didn't appear overnight, and would only overtake chickens which lacked the ability due to a slightly better chance at survival over extended periods of time. While this process was happening there would be no other discernible difference between the two types of chicken.

[Widerstand]

This goes into semantics. Non Chicken Species mutates and passes on traits to the egg. Egg contains chicken. Is it a chicken egg because it has a chicken or a non-chicken egg because it was laid by a non-chicken species.


It works only if you define eggs as containing vocledidin-17 (OC-17), otherwise the egg came first.

Since hen's eggs containing vocledidin-17 (OC-17) are not the only objects we call "eggs", the egg came first.

These two posts really sum it up, this is a purely semantic problem.

[TheCagedLion]

Since the birds evolved from the reptiles, wouldn't that push this problem back much further in time? Somehow the flexible calcareous egg of the reptile gradually led to the solid calcium carbonate shell of the bird's egg. Perhaps there were many intermediate stages, and nothing to point to where you can say there is the first chicken.

(My emphasis)

Pretty much one of the major points of Richard Dawkins' book The Ancestor's Tale btw

[NGNM85]

Now, if only they could find out if a tree makes a sound when it falls in the forest and there's nobody there to hear it.

[chegitz guevara]

They know the direct desendant of the chicken :
http://whyfiles.org/265animal_breeding/images/5red_junglefowl.jpgRed Junglefowl.
This chicken did lay eggs obviously and since the domestic chicken we all know and eat today is its descendant then the first "chicken" came from an egg of this bird!

Therfore without any doubt whatsoever THE .. EGG.. CAME..FUCKING ..FIRST! :mad:
That chicken never laid an egg.

It' a rooster!:mad::mad::mad: