French MPs vote to ban Islamic full veil in public

[bricolage]

France's lower house of parliament has overwhelmingly approved a bill that would ban wearing the Islamic full veil in public.

There were 335 votes for the bill and only one against in the 557-seat National Assembly.

This seemed to be coming for a while so it isn't really surprising, very troubling nonetheless.

I did find this bit interesting;


Berengere Poletti, an MP from Mr Sarkozy's centre-right UMP party, said women in full veils wore "a sign of alienation on their faces" and had to be "liberated".

Aint it funny how politicians suddenly start caring about the 'liberation' of women only when Muslims are involved? Anyone might say there were ulterior motives...

[AK]

The thing that most people don't get is that - as much of a liberation from sexism as not having to wear the veil is - if you ban it, Muslims will only see it as an attack against their religion (which it really is in most cases). If Muslim women are going to be liberated from the tyranny and patriarchal subjugation of organised religion, they're going to have to do it by their own will.

[El Rojo]

this legislation liberates women like the 2003 Gulf War liberated Iraq

[danyboy27]

even a secular state should allow people to wear whatever they want in public places.

this is bullshit, i am a fucking atheist and i think the whole thing is just going against the basic freedom of individual to wear whatever they want.

banning religious sign in public institution? fuck yea good idea!

banning people from wearing a religious sign in public? what kind of bullshit is that!

[Slavoj Zizzle]

France is awful and has been looking for every opportunity to hate Muslims since the Algerian War. Anti-Muslim racism may be a worldwide problem, and Europe may be the new breeding ground for the strongest racist neo-fascism, but France will always be leading the way :sneaky: It's really too bad because France has always led the world in socialist proletariat culture and revolution.

Just goes to show you even the country of the French revolution, the Paris commune, and the 68 strikes has massive cultural problems. Nobody has it easy, so if you're in some awful country like the US or UK don't feel overwhelmed by the difficulty of being a leftist :thumbup1:

[Tatarin]

The thing that most people don't get is that - as much of a liberation from sexism as not having to wear the veil is - if you ban it, Muslims will only see it as an attack against their religion (which it really is in most cases).

Adding to this, any "integration" of immigrants that they so much fight for will on the contrary not happen. Just saw this discussion on al Jazeera where this idiot from France claimed that the ban is done so that people can "live together". Yeah, say that to the homeless.

What is mostly troubling is that I don't think that this will stop until public focus (or/and rather outrage) is directed at capitalism, say like in Greece. Because in the future, minarets won't be looking very architectally French. And then Chinese restaurants aren't serving very French food. In the end, as it is always with the mind of the nationalist, the only one that can really decide about the nation is the ethnically French person.

It's like that old saying, "First they came for the Jews, and I didn't say anything because I weren't a Jew" - in the end, no one will be saying much of anything. Just as Hitler for so long claimed to wanting to free the Germans, proved instead to be their enslavement.

[Ocean Seal]

What bothers me is that these women have a choice of whether or not to wear the veil. Taking it away from them is straight up racism. If the politicians want to liberate women then do something productive. Create jobs, decrease discrimination in the home and in the workplace and for the love of God destroy capitalism.

[the last donut of the night]

The thing that most people don't get is that - as much of a liberation from sexism as not having to wear the veil is - if you ban it, Muslims will only see it as an attack against their religion (which it really is in most cases). If Muslim women are going to be liberated from the tyranny and patriarchal subjugation of organised religion, they're going to have to do it by their own will.

This has nothing to do with religion. The ban on the veil is a racist measure against immigrants.

[Yazman]

I've got the same view as danyboy on this. I think that this is some ridiculous legislation, I have some choice words for it but I will not say them here.

To put it quite simply, its none of the government's business what we wear in public. We should not allow the government to have that level of control over our person. All this legislation does is create precedents for the government dictating what we can and can't wear, and invade our personal sovereignty - or maybe I DON'T own my own body anymore, with this legislation coming through.

[Devrim]

Just goes to show you even the country of the French revolution, the Paris commune, and the 68 strikes has massive cultural problems. Nobody has it easy, so if you're in some awful country like the US or UK don't feel overwhelmed by the difficulty of being a leftist :thumbup1:

Actually the strike wave in the winter of 79 in the UK was bigger and obviously more recent than that of 68 in France.

Devrim

[AK]

The ban on the veil is a racist measure against immigrants.
Yes, but it is also anti-Islamic.

[danyboy27]

instead of forcing people to remove their veil, they should create more program to help Muslim women who are victim of abuse.

[leftace53]

I've been trying to figure out where I stand with this bill. While my utter hatred of religion and such is thinking this is great, theres obviously the aspect of some massive civil rights being taken away. I don't care much for the freedom of religion - when it comes to the public eye, but this infringes on just the right to wear whatever the hell you want.

Another aspect to the bill is that it penalizes men that force women in thier lives to wear the veil, which I suspect that we can agree is a good thing.

I fear this bill will just emphasize even more gendered oppression. Women who chose to wear the veil might decrease/stop their public lives, and stay home. Sure this will alienate those women even more from society.

[Raúl Duke]

I've been trying to figure out where I stand with this bill.

Personally, while I understand that the actual reasoning behind this bill is likely xenophobia than any goodwill for women, I don't feel bothered to be against it in anyway that could be misinterpreted as if I am for "religious rights."

Although, usually, these bills or similar ones have been passed before and they carry certain provisions that makes it illegal to cover one's face in public, even in protests/demos/riots. In those cases, the bill adds the aspect of creating more penalties for protesters.

[Palestine]

I don't really know how to feel about this. On one hand, its freedom of choice, some do it out of belief, some are forced to do it, on the other hand, nothing in the Islamic religion states that you must cover your face. Now I don't like it when Muslims emigrate to Europe and start *****ing about Europeans being anti-Muslims, if you go somewhere you have to respect the rules of the house. When they made that decision they were fully aware of what's waiting for them. SO MUSLIMS STOP *****ING ABOUT IT!!!

[AK]

I don't really know how to feel about this. On one hand, its freedom of choice, some do it out of belief, some are forced to do it, on the other hand, nothing in the Islamic religion states that you must cover your face. Now I don't like it when Muslims emigrate to Europe and start *****ing about Europeans being anti-Muslims, if you go somewhere you have to respect the rules of the house. When they made that decision they were fully aware of what's waiting for them. SO MUSLIMS STOP *****ING ABOUT IT!!!
With any luck you'll get a verbal warning or an infraction for this stupidity.

Anyway, you can't possibly say that Muslims who arrive in France should be expected to just take all the xenophobia, hatred and Islamaphobia that is thrown at them simply because they are Muslims. Where the hell is your solidarity?

Even though it is true that a minority of Muslim women who wear this that are forced into it, I can guarantee that nearly all the Muslim women wearing the veil will take it as a racist, bigoted attack against their ethnicity and/or religion.

I know why you should oppose it: it is an attack by the ruling class on Muslims and Arabs to simply gain the support of the French working class. Not only that but it is an authoritarian measure which restricts freedom of religion to a degree and will just breed more hate.

[AK]

Actually the strike wave in the winter of 79 in the UK was bigger and obviously more recent than that of 68 in France.

Devrim
Except that anarchists such as myself don't fap to it as much as we do to Mai 68.

[jake williams]

The racist campaign of hatred against Muslim and non-Muslim immigration in Europe is being spearheaded by liberals and fascists, and it's fucking terrifying. It's terrifying anyway that in countries with fasicst histories, neofascist parties are using the same rhetoric about Muslims that they used to use about Jews, but instead of getting even token resistance from European liberals they're getting support. It's even more terrifying during a period of economic crisis when European governments are eagerly searching for somewhere to displace working class anger.

[Robocommie]

The racist campaign of hatred against Muslim and non-Muslim immigration in Europe is being spearheaded by liberals and fascists, and it's fucking terrifying. It's terrifying anyway that in countries with fasicst histories, neofascist parties are using the same rhetoric about Muslims that they used to use about Jews, but instead of getting even token resistance from European liberals they're getting support. It's even more terrifying during a period of economic crisis when European governments are eagerly searching for somewhere to displace working class anger.

I know this might sound like alarmism, but I truly am worried that eventually, all of this hatemongering towards Muslims is going to, maybe 50 to 100 years or so down the road, turn into the potential seed of a Final Solution.

[Andropov]

Now I don't like it when Muslims emigrate to Europe and start *****ing about Europeans being anti-Muslims, if you go somewhere you have to respect the rules of the house. When they made that decision they were fully aware of what's waiting for them. SO MUSLIMS STOP *****ING ABOUT IT!!!
Ya true that brother, you would swear Europeans and Westerners were plundering these Muslims home countrys and supporting tin-pot autocracys in their own countrys for the purpose of economic plunder forcing those from Muslim countrys to migrate for economic reasons, sheesh who do those Muslims think they are?
You need to cop the fuck on.

As for the ban, an obvious attack against Muslims given the context of the ban.
Out of interest is there any law forbidding Nuns from wearing their habit in public?

[Coggeh]

Ya true that brother, you would swear Europeans and Westerners were plundering these Muslims home countrys and supporting tin-pot autocracys in their own countrys for the purpose of economic plunder forcing those from Muslim countrys to migrate for economic reasons, sheesh who do those Muslims think they are?
You need to cop the fuck on.
Spot on, though I would go further there's nothing i hate more than the argument about "when your in a different country you should respect the rules" especially when it comes from socialists. Human rights are universal and do not differentiate based on borders. When westerners are in arab countries I don't think they should be forced to obey laws such as the one in Afghanistan where women have to wear the veil. And the same goes for people from the middle east when living in western countries they should be allowed to have the same cultural practices as they have in the Middle east (provided it doesn't inhibit others rights)


As for the ban, an obvious attack against Muslims given the context of the ban.
Out of interest is there any law forbidding Nuns from wearing their habit in public?
Nope.

This piece of legislation is nothing but a blatant attack on the rights of Muslims which is sought by Sarkozy to appease the far right and also stir up racial tensions in France to hide from the real problems French workers caused by the bourgeoisie.

[empiredestoryer]

i wonder what france are going to come up with next...make jews wear the star of david