A few questions about some stuff

[Stephen Colbert]

1) What's with the term "Left" Communist and "Left" Marxist etc. I dont entirely understand the need for Left to preface leftist ideology..

2) Do you think, down the road, there will be a socio-economic system that trumps communism? Doubt it, but you never know.

3) What the fuck @ these people. Complete morons in my opinion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKKKgua7wQk

[SeaSpeck]

1. It's a way to distinguish the position of the particular ideology. It's easier to say Left Communist than Left of Leninism.
http://anonym.to/?http://https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Left_communism

2. No

3. Yes, we all know reactionaries are annoying and dumb and wrong and etc.

[Zanthorus]

1) What's with the term "Left" Communist and "Left" Marxist etc. I dont entirely understand the need for Left to preface leftist ideology.

Left-Communism refers to the specific historical tradition of those who were on the Left of the Communist International and the groups who descended from them who held/hold to positions such as rejection of parliamentary politics, refusal to work in "united fronts", opposition to participation in trade unions, opposition to national liberation struggles etc. Left-Communists also regard existing "Left" organisations (Trotskyists, Maoists, some anarchists) as being the "left-wing of capital".

[ContrarianLemming]

1) What's with the term "Left" Communist and "Left" Marxist etc. I dont entirely understand the need for Left to preface leftist ideology..

the libertaran section of marxism is refered to as "left communism", they are against leninist vangaurdism.


2) Do you think, down the road, there will be a socio-economic system that trumps communism? Doubt it, but you never know.

transhumanism


3) What the fuck @ these people. Complete morons in my opinion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKKKgua7wQk

you got it right

[Zanthorus]

the libertaran section of marxism is refered to as "left communism", they are against leninist vangaurdism.

No it is not and no we are not.


The revolutionary political organisation constitutes the vanguard of the working class and is an active factor in the generalisation of class consciousness within the proletariat.
http://en.internationalism.org/basic-positions


But, the proletariat can be effectively revolutionary, only if it acquire the necessary class unity and the consciousness of its own intimate antagonism in respect to capital. For this purpose, it is necessary that in the sphere of the proletarian class there is an organized vanguard, able to analyze the dynamics of the relations of production, to draw lessons from the experiences of class struggle, to elaborate and advance a program to overcome the capitalist society and to guide, politically, the class on this road.
http://www.leftcom.org/en/about-us

[ZeroNowhere]

To be fair, 'Leninist vanguardism' is one of those phrases that can mean just about anything. For all we know, Aeon may have been talking about flying elephants.


transhumanismWhen did trans-humanism become a mode of production?

[AK]

To be fair, 'Leninist vanguardism' is one of those phrases that can mean just about anything. For all we know, Aeon may have been talking about flying elephants.
...holding the red banner of the workers?

When did trans-humanism become a mode of production?
This, pretty much. But Zero beat me to it.

[Zanthorus]

To be fair, 'Leninist vanguardism' is one of those phrases that can mean just about anything. For all we know, Aeon may have been talking about flying elephants.

:lol:

Although in all seriousness I doubt many Left-Communists would reject much of what Lenin wrote on the subject of the role of the party.

[ContrarianLemming]

To be fair, 'Leninist vanguardism' is one of those phrases that can mean just about anything. For all we know, Aeon may have been talking about flying elephants.

When did trans-humanism become a mode of production?

socio economic


To be fair, 'Leninist vanguardism' is one of those phrases that can mean just about anything. For all we know, Aeon may have been talking about flying elephants.The use of professional revolutionaries in a party leading workers.


No it is not and no we are not.I find that hard to believe.
I thought Luxemburg was against vangaurds, and she seems to have been the biggest influence.



Although in all seriousness I doubt many Left-Communists would reject much of what Lenin wrote on the subject of the role of the party.

If left communists are not a form of libertarian marxism (like luxembourgism) then how do they differ from leninism? If your not a libertarian marxist your a leninist, possibly with the exception of De Leonism.

[Zanthorus]

The use of professional revolutionaries in a party leading workers.

I would like to see where exactly this is advocated by Lenin.


I find that hard to believe.
I thought Luxemburg was against vangaurds, and she seems to have been the biggest influence.

Really, Luxemburg was not all that different from Lenin apart from on the national question. She was certainly not a Left-Communist of any description though as she voted in favour of the KPD participating in parliament. That isn't even mentioning the fact that Left-Communism is a specific historical tradition and not just a set of positions. The Forwardists for example, would probably not be considered Left-Communists as they elaborated their opposition to parliamentary participation before the "epoch of wars and revolutions" had begun. Luxemburg could not really be considered a Left-Communist as she died before the first congress of the Comintern even got underway.

Besides which I've already quoted two Left-Communist organisations in support of vanguardism. The Italian Left is probably the most notable on this issue for it's "ultra-Leninism". Although even KAPD theorists like Gorter called for a vanguard party "hard as steel, clear as glass."


If left communists are not a form of libertarian marxism (like luxembourgism) then how do they differ from leninism?

We oppose participation in parliaments, trade unions, united fronts, national liberation struggles etc and hold that these positions flow naturally from Lenin's own thesis that the first world war marked on the onset of the epoch of Imperialist decay, although Lenin himself never drew out the logical conclusions of his own analysis. To this we counterpose the conquest of power by the workers councils.

[ContrarianLemming]

Thanks for clearing this up.

I'm surprised that you think my definition of vangaurdism is wrong, I've been using that one for years, no one has ever disagreed, maybe I said it wrong
"vanguardism is a strategy whereby an organization (usually a vanguard party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanguard_party)) attempts to place itself at the center of the movement, and steer it in a direction consistent with its ideology."

you disagree?

[ContrarianLemming]

aand, btw, I realize the more broad definition of vangaurdism is simply an orginization which agitates, propagandises and teachs, in which case anarcho syndicalism is vangaurdist (the FAI of the CNT were vangaurdist) but I dont usually see this definition.

[Zanthorus]

Well from Lenin's usage of the term "vanguard" in What is to be Done? my definition of a "vanguard" would be more along the lines of "an organisation which doesn't base itself on the current state of the working class movement but, on the contrary, attempts to raise consciousness through education, agitation and organisation." (Which is slightly different from an organisation which only educates, agitates and organises since the latter definition wouldn't include the crucial point, which is the rejection of broad economism)

[ZeroNowhere]

socio economicHuman production is also the production of ideas and social relations. We would not cease to live in a capitalist society simply by having three eyes instead of two.


If your not a libertarian marxist your a leninist, possibly with the exception of De Leonism.
We're generally counted among the 'libertarians', and I believe that some bloke recently classified us as anarchists in a history of syndicalism or something of the sort.

[Blake's Baby]

...
I thought Luxemburg was against vangaurds, and she seems to have been the biggest influence.

...

If left communists are not a form of libertarian marxism (like luxembourgism) then how do they differ from leninism? If your not a libertarian marxist your a leninist, possibly with the exception of De Leonism.

As a Luxemburgist, I wonder what you mean by 'Libertarian Marxist'? Do you mean 'in opposition to Authoritarian Marxism'? If so, that's not a dichotomy I recognise. The reason is, there is no 'Authoritarian Marxism' because Marxism is not authoritarian. To put it another way, if it is authoritarian, it isn't Marxism.

For Marx, 'the liberation of the working class is the task of the working class' which is a statement I don't think any anarcho-syndicalist or anarchist-communist would disagree with. So any theory of revolution that doesn't start with the working class and its revolutionary potential is not Marxist, and any organisation that holds that theory isn't Marxist either.

This gets to the question of vanguards; what is a vanguard? Is it a party that seizes power 'on behalf' of the proletariat? Or is it the section of the working class that most clearly sees the necessity of class struggle? For me, it's the latter. But, like the Left Communists, I see those revolutionary workers coming together into an international organisation.

Rosa was certainly a big influence on the Left Communists, especially in Germany, but wasn't a Left Communist for the reasons outlined by Zanthorus. Left Communism as a current only dates from after the foundation of the Communist International and Rosa had already been murdered by then; and also, her positions on various questions were not the same as those of any particular Left Communist group (of which there were several, including Russian, Dutch/German and Italian currents, which didn't all have the same positions by any means).

[Bubbles]

Bric-a-brac:
Left originates from french parliament where the progressive sat on the left side (liberals then), and the conservatives on the right side.

[DaComm]

1) What's with the term "Left" Communist and "Left" Marxist etc. I dont entirely understand the need for Left to preface leftist ideology..

2) Do you think, down the road, there will be a socio-economic system that trumps communism? Doubt it, but you never know.

3) What the fuck @ these people. Complete morons in my opinion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKKKgua7wQk

1. I've never heard of "Left Marxist", I have however heard of Left Communism. The further Left you are, the less you see the need for a means of governing and for a state. "Authoritarian" Socialists are named such because they support usage of a worker's state. To my knowledge, Council Communists, Anarcho-Communists, and Luxemburgists look down upon the need for a state. This makes them more left, than say, a Marxist-Leninist or Trotskyist.

2. You think too much.

3. "Obama wrote books outlining hius Marxist philosophy"- What the fuck? It's saddening to see the intellectual degeneration of the common man today, thus prompting the need for a Vanguard party to disband these lies based on arguments that are utter bullshit, by arguing their position based upon intellectual reasoning.