Vice Magazine Boldly Excretes On SWP's Marxism 2010

[Small Geezer]

THE PEOPLE’S REVOLUTION IS NOT NO PICNIC

http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/18-635x476.jpg
OK, I get it, the world has gone to shit. We messed up. We raped the land, the powerful bankers did a big shit on our faces, there are no jobs, we’re all broke, the dam is bursting, Satan’s come home drunk, this planet is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions, real wrath of God type stuff: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes, the dead rising from the grave! No one can even afford to upgrade their iPhone 3S to an iPhone 4 until their existing contract plays out! I’m as bewildered as you are, which is why I decided to spend five days–FIVE DAYS!–at Marxism 2010 in London, which was going to help us steer ourselves back on the right course, (which, ironically, is the Left course).
The event was supposed to reinvigorate the jaded left-winging community and deliver “ideas to change the world,’” something every worried human could try and get behind in earnest. It promised big names from the political and academic scene–Slavoj Zizek, Tony Benn, Tariq Ali and Alex Callinicos to name a few–talking on topics ranging from sexuality to Islamophobia; from climate change to capitalism’s future, and generally pointing out that we’re all fucked and it’s all our fault.
That all happened as planned, but it’s a shame the program didn’t mention that the event’s organizers, the Socialist Workers Party, planned to hijack the whole thing with its revolutionary dogma–you know, worker’s uprising, communist living, everyone uniting in equality at the level of sheer misery–leaving any opportunity for real debate (or a fucking smile) dead in the water. Turns out hanging out with a bunch of unreformed Leninists and an assortment of other sidelined alcoholics and nutters is actually less fun than going to the shitty music festival I would have been at otherwise. I probably could have learned way more about rallying against the world’s horrors in a field watching a P!NK concert than I could from this lot anyway.
http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/19-635x476.jpg
http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/110-635x476.jpg
Don’t get me wrong, Marx is a great guy. In fact it’s because me and him have gotten along so well at times that I decided to come along. Unfortunately his ardent followers need to sort their shit out. The first meeting I went to, lead by a women’s lib speaker Andrea “The Butcher” Butcher, was named “Pin-ups, Porn and Prostitution.” In it I learned that objectifying pin-ups is bad, women in South Africa having no food is bad, women trafficking is bad; but, Lenin is good and a worker’s revolution would not only be not bad, but in fact quite good! Everyone called each other “comrade” the whole time, which was quite exciting.
http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/111-635x476.jpg
Most people on the radical left were more predisposed to throwing picnics than worker’s protests, however, as the beguiling number of competitively fly-posted picnic posters revealed.
http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/112-635x476.jpg
Lenin, you old party goat! What’s your next trick? Using famine as a weapon against millions of your own people? Ha, you would, wouldn’t you?! “The dictatorship means unrestricted power based on force, not on law” you say? Ha! Fun guy!
http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/113-635x476.jpg
Who’s Roddy?
http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/114-476x635.jpg
This is a pretty good picnic poster. The hammer and sickle never inspired me quite as much as this mighty knife and folk.
http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/115-635x476.jpg
Typical that Brighton hippies would have a picnic right?
http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/116-635x476.jpg
I think these guys let the side down. Where’s your pride, comrades? In any case, all I found at any of the revolutionary picnics was usually a nice spread of Tesco Value party snacks.
http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/117-635x476.jpg
This old comrade was working a bottle of liquor and telling some slightly younger comrades that, actually, comrades, Isaac Newton went to a public school–meaning all science is bourgeois and false–and that the best reference point for talking about George Osborne’s budget, comrades, is actually Engles’ diary from the 19th century.
http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/118-635x476.jpg
To add to the fun there were also loads of really over-zealous socialist students who had flown in from around Europe to sell us t-shirts that come second only to that one you see at festivals emblazoned with ‘iPood’ (http://drujohnwigsinkiwi.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/ipood1.jpg) in terms of quality. Also, selling your t-shirts for profit? Marx says go stand in the corner.
http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/119-476x635.jpg
There were also lots of petitioners. Judging by this guy’s t-shirt, I think he was petitioning for someone to make a sequel to Borat. (OK, I feel bad now, I just re-read the flyer he handed me and it’s about the execution of Kurdish political prisoners).
http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/120-635x476.jpg
http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/121-635x476.jpg
While walking amongst the stands of socialist workers and socialist worker off-shoot groups, I came across these guys the Spartacist League. These proud Trotskyites take a pretty interesting stance on Asia. Particularly the line about defending North Korea from Imperialism and Capitalism.
http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/122-635x476.jpg
When I asked them what exactly they meant by that and did they actually approve of Kim Jong Il’s tyrannical regime, they accused me of being a white boy who didn’t know what it was like to experience a worker’s struggle. When I told them I’d rather be a slave to capitalism than a slave in a North Korean gulag just because I asked for another cup of rice, they laughed at me patronizingly and then, oddly, told me I knew nothing about Yugoslavia.
Through the quagmire of shit there were a few genuinely good bits. Tariq Ali’s paralleling of the current wave of Islamophobia to the demonization of the Jews a hundred years ago was good, particularly when he framed his argument against the rise of the BNP and the EDL (http://www.viceland.com/wp/2010/04/on-tour-with-some-fat-racists/).
http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/123-635x476.jpg
The guy who had been on the attacked Gaza flotilla a few weeks before got up afterwards to speak, his denouncement of Israel’s illegal, racially-justified activities against the Palestinians was also impressive.
http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/124-635x476.jpg
Slavoj Zizek (hirsute, right) shouted down a nostalgic Montenegrin Titoist for suggesting a return to the Yugoslavian miseries of the last century would be a good idea. He then told everybody straight up that socialism as it’s thought of generally is a big waste of time, one that’s low on ideas that can really deal with what the world faces today. Which kind of bummed everyone out.
ALEX HOBAN

[Nolan]

I've never heard a liberal pat himself on the back more snobbishly.

[Aurora]

Discounting all the inane bullshit in the article it really sounds like a great event i'll have to head over some time and i love the picnic posters really well done comrades :thumbup1:

[Nachie]

lol y'all need to lighten up.

This article is great! The author even points out that he thinks Marx knows what's up, he was just flabbergasted at what passes for the socialist movement these days (aren't we all? well... nevermind, I forgot this is revleft). And let's be honest, conferences like this are embarrassing as fuck and the few highlights he pointed out are entirely believable in terms of what few gems there usually tend to be buried in the piles and piles of stagnant Leninist BULLSHIT :)

Have fun selling your newspapers, "comrades"!

[Robocommie]

lol y'all need to lighten up.

This article is great! The author even points out that he thinks Marx knows what's up, he was just flabbergasted at what passes for the socialist movement these days (aren't we all? well... nevermind, I forgot this is revleft). And let's be honest, conferences like this are embarrassing as fuck and the few highlights he pointed out are entirely believable in terms of what few gems there usually tend to be buried in the piles and piles of stagnant Leninist BULLSHIT :)

Have fun selling your newspapers, "comrades"!

It's funny, you take a swipe at Revleft and the socialist community at large for being in a sorry state, and then you go ahead and make a childish, unprompted and totally unhelpful sectarian attack.

[Aurora]

It's funny, you take a swipe at Revleft and the socialist community at large for being in a sorry state, and then you go ahead and make a childish, unprompted and totally unhelpful sectarian attack.

He's in RAAN, if you not glueing parking meters and smashing the windows of socialist bookshops your not doing it right :rolleyes:

[Nachie]

durn tootin!

[ed miliband]

http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/117-635x476.jpg

This old comrade was working a bottle of liquor and telling some slightly younger comrades that, actually, comrades, Isaac Newton went to a public school–meaning all science is bourgeois and false–and that the best reference point for talking about George Osborne’s budget, comrades, is actually Engles’ diary from the 19th century.

That made me laugh, I must admit.

It also makes me laugh that the person who wrote the article bemoans the fact that the SWP advocate revolution and say some nice things about Lenin, and then notes Slavoj Zizek as one of the highlights of the event.

[Q]

The OP is of an amazing class of troll. Take note youngsters, this is how you troll properly.

I see little serious political criticisms made though, which is what this particular forum is for, so this belongs in Chit-Chat.

[ed miliband]

Also, the writer applauds Zizek for saying that socialism was a failure in the past, as if saying this is almost heresy in their company, but surely Trotskyists would have no objection to that?

[bcbm]

I see little serious political criticisms made though, which is what this particular forum is for, so this belongs in Chit-Chat.

i know most of the stuff in this article seems pretty normal to the crowd around here but i think the article raises some criticisms we should be thinking about on the left. outside of leftist circles, this kind of gathering looks like a bunch of wingnuts talking about wingnut shit, not a gathering of revolutionary workers figuring out how to take down capitalism (probably because it really is more the former than the latter). i think the summary of zizek's comments is pretty astute, too. way too many leftists are trying to solve 21st century problems with solutions from the mid to early 20th century, if not older, instead of trying to figure out what the fuck needs to be done here and now. but of course instead of reflecting critically on this and seeing if there is anything to learn from this writer's perspective, everybody just keeps their blinders on, slags it off and keeps trudging in the same well worn path that hasn't taken us anywhere in fucking ages.

[Wanted Man]

It's not a bad article, but why is it "bold" as the OP claims? It doesn't take any particular amount of courage to make fun of small socialist groups, you know.

[Ravachol]

It's not a bad article, but why is it "bold" as the OP claims? It doesn't take any particular amount of courage to make fun of small socialist groups, you know.

While it isn't 'bold' (I suppose it would be 'bold' to shout "Brittania rules the waves" at the next 32CSM Ard Fheis) it's pretty spot on (although I dislike the jabs at the Holodormor and such). I've been saying this multiple times but the state the left is in right now and it's detachment from the working class is because of this kind of endlessly recycled sloganism. Critical analysis and orientation are rare.

[Robocommie]

The left's got problems right now, but I think this has as much to do with the way our ideologies have been totally discredited since the collapse of the Soviet Union. The victory of the US in the Cold War had serious consequences for world political movements. Even stable, successful socialist nations like Cuba have been forced to turn to some neoliberal policies without the Comecon to help them build their economy.

The question though, if it's felt that the Left right now really is in a shambles and needs to stop being such a bunch of crackpots, is to identify just what the Left should be doing instead.

[Raúl Duke]

i know most of the stuff in this article seems pretty normal to the crowd around here but i think the article raises some criticisms we should be thinking about on the left. outside of leftist circles, this kind of gathering looks like a bunch of wingnuts talking about wingnut shit, not a gathering of revolutionary workers figuring out how to take down capitalism (probably because it really is more the former than the latter). i think the summary of zizek's comments is pretty astute, too. way too many leftists are trying to solve 21st century problems with solutions from the mid to early 20th century, if not older, instead of trying to figure out what the fuck needs to be done here and now. but of course instead of reflecting critically on this and seeing if there is anything to learn from this writer's perspective, everybody just keeps their blinders on, slags it off and keeps trudging in the same well worn path that hasn't taken us anywhere in fucking ages.

I agree...all I see are a bunch of socialists of SWP, hanging out with only socialists, without any real means (or actual fresh attempt) of reaching out to normal people besides selling t-shirts (who the fuck thought this was a good idea?; from a certain perspective it seems surreal) and giving out/selling newspapers.

Now it doesn't mean it ain't bad to have a small picnic once in a while with activist friends or what not, but from what I gathered if Marxism 2010 is one of SWP's "main events"...I don't really see whats the point if it's just a even that seems seemingly detached from the outside world.

Now not all tactics from the past suck per se, but we need to be more adaptive, creative, and experimental in our approach and try out new things till we find something that really works instead of the same stuff that doesn't actually work (if you think hard about it) and telling ourselves it does anything/works/"brings us closer to revolution" or a militant working class.

[Robocommie]

I agree...all I see are a bunch of socialists of SWP, hanging out with only socialists, without any real means (or actual fresh attempt) of reaching out to normal people besides selling t-shirts (who the fuck thought this was a good idea?; from a certain perspective it seems surreal) and giving out/selling newspapers.

Now it doesn't mean it ain't bad to have a small picnic once in a while with activist friends or what not, but from what I gathered if Marxism 2010 is one of SWP's "main events"...I don't really see whats the point if it's just a even that seems seemingly detached from the outside world.

Well, keep in mind that socialists don't have to only reach out to normal people, I don't see how it's at all a problem to have a gathering for people who already share a political point of view to get together, in person, and touch base on deeper questions of theory for people who are already initiated into the movement.

It's like any other convention, really. The only people who go to dentistry conventions are other dentists, where they make contacts/friends with other professionals, learn new scientific breakthroughs, learn about new dental tools and inventions, but then after the convention is over they go back home and practice dentistry.

Mind you, I do think the Left needs to get out and try and spread the word to everyday folks a lot more.

[black magick hustla]

vice magazine is shameless hipster trash who made a career out of ironic racist jokes i cant see why i have to take seriously one of those whiteboys writing about socialism

[Hit The North]

I've been saying this multiple times but the state the left is in right now and it's detachment from the working class is because of this kind of endlessly recycled sloganism. Critical analysis and orientation are rare.

So you don't think the state of the left has anything to do with the condition of the class itself?

[Hit The North]

Mind you, I do think the Left needs to get out and try and spread the word to everyday folks a lot more.

I agree. How do you think we can go about this?

[M-26-7]

(although I dislike the jabs at the Holodormor and such).

You mean the confused jabs at Holodomor. The author blames Lenin for the use of "famine as a weapon against millions of [his] own people", but one would assume (at least I would) that a person must be alive at the time of a mass starvation in order to be responsible for it, and Lenin was not alive in 1932.

My guess is that he is either referring to the famine in 1921--intimating that one man (Lenin) was responsible for the outbreak of the Russian Civil War, and that the Tsar's disastrous participation in WWI had nothing to do with creating the conditions for that famine--or he is simply so ignorant about Russian history that he does not realize Lenin was already eight years embalmed during the famine in Ukraine.

That, or he simply has a vague idea that there were some famines "over there" in Russia and that "the Communists" were responsible for them all. I can't really blame him for thinking this; this is the impression given by most high school textbooks, after all. I only blame him for adamantly repeating it in print without verifying the facts for himself first.

Anyway, regarding the article itself, I agree with posters who say that it contains some valid criticisms of the left, and I agree with those who say that the author is a self-congratulating liberal troll. Both are true. But it seems clear to me that even this author's "valid" criticisms will only take the left so far. After all, it's pretty clear that the author's solution to the sloganeering and posturing of small Leninist grouplets would be for them to abandon a revolutionary stance altogether (as evidence, see his remark about socialism: "you know, worker’s uprising, communist living, everyone uniting in equality at the level of sheer misery"). We want reform of the radical Left and genuine self-criticism; he wants us to disband and leave Marx to the Sociology professors. At least, that's how it seems to me.

One last point to bear in mind: A writer for Vice Magazine is not exactly the most proletarian position on earth. I'm not saying the SWP are reaching out to the actual working class (the evidence of the article seems to point to the fact that they are more busy throwing picnics for themselves), but let's face it; if the SWP ever did "lead" the British working class in a working class revolution, which side of the barricades would the writers for Vice Magazine be on? Probably neither side: they would probably be cowering in their tenth floor offices, writing snarky articles about how uppity the rabble were becoming.

[Ravachol]

So you don't think the state of the left has anything to do with the condition of the class itself?

Of course, intense class re-composition and fragmentation of class consciousness as a result of this re-composition, as well as overall material conditions have put the 'old' Left completely out of touch with the working class as it is today. The 'Left' however has so far not been able to adapt to this situation and thus remains an impotent milieu.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Wasn't "Vice Magazine" that pathetic bunch of idiots who went to North Korea and made a "video travel guide" thing that basically consisted of tasteless mockery and unfunny shit?

[Raúl Duke]

A writer for Vice Magazine is not exactly the most proletarian position on earth.I wouldn't know how much a writer for that particular magazine would get paid, but in general journalists (in the U.S.) on average tend to be paid less than public school teachers.

Although if you "make it big" you can get paid large salaries.

[Hit The North]

Of course, intense class re-composition and fragmentation of class consciousness as a result of this re-composition, as well as overall material conditions have put the 'old' Left completely out of touch with the working class as it is today. The 'Left' however has so far not been able to adapt to this situation and thus remains an impotent milieu.

Well, all suggestions are welcome as to how the left can negotiate its realignment with the class. But it seems to me that, as always, we are hostages to fortune; unable to move the class, so waiting for the class to move itself.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

I think the reason the left is out of touch with the working class is that it represents an alien class force that has proven itself incapable of eliminating class, exploitation, etc.


Mind you, I do think the Left needs to get out and try and spread the word to everyday folks a lot more.

Proletarian revolution isn't a religious doctrine that you can convert people to. It's not as if billions of workers are just waiting to be told what's up by an enlightened group of proselytizers.

And it's not like the left groups aren't out "spreading the word" all the time with websites, newspapers, campaigns, meetings, etc. anyway. More people doing more of that won't bring us any closer to the kind of revolutionary change we're looking for than more people wearing Che t-shirts and calling each other comrade will.

[Ravachol]

Well, all suggestions are welcome as to how the left can negotiate its realignment with the class. But it seems to me that, as always, we are hostages to fortune; unable to move the class, so waiting for the class to move itself.

And this is exactly how it should be. The vanguardist notion that we are to 'move the class' is not only autoritarian, it's anti-materialist and idealist in nature. Material conditions will inherently cause the working class to refuse them. Initially, however, not as a class. The task of the pro-revolutionary milieu is to attach itself to the class organically and aid the class in several fields, amongst which are serving as a class memory (learning from past mistakes, historical and tactical knowledge,etc), assisting in an organisational fashion and raising class consciousness by moving away from individual or narrow sectorial interests towards class interests encompassing and promoting the former interests but in a revolutionary fashion.

The detachment of the 'Left' from the working class, especially after the intense and continuous re-composition since the '80s (the rise of increasing immaterial labour in the 'first world' being a cause), is mainly because of a mix of maintaining archaic strategy and a complete lack of relevance to the working class material struggles instead opting for agitation in the purely political sphere. This is what is commonly referred to as 'Leftism' in some Anarchist and left-communist circles, the subsitution of material struggle and class demands for purely political, outdated and idealist demands.

[Hit The North]

And this is exactly how it should be. The vanguardist notion that we are to 'move the class' is not only autoritarian, it's anti-materialist and idealist in nature.

Agreed. It is the (un)happy contradiction we live under as revolutionaries.


The task of the pro-revolutionary milieu is to attach itself to the class organically and aid the class in several fields, amongst which are serving as a class memory (learning from past mistakes, historical and tactical knowledge,etc), assisting in an organisational fashion and raising class consciousness by moving away from individual or narrow sectorial interests towards class interests encompassing and promoting the former interests but in a revolutionary fashion.
Well, you're describing the ABC of revolutionary practice. To an extent, this is what Marxism (the event) is for. Of course, memory, no less class memory, is a selective thing and I wouldn't expect anarchists such as yourself to agree with the SWP's spin on class history.


The detachment of the 'Left' from the working class, especially after the intense and continuous re-composition since the '80s (the rise of increasing immaterial labour in the 'first world' being a cause), is mainly because of a mix of maintaining archaic strategy and a complete lack of relevance to the working class material struggles instead opting for agitation in the purely political sphere. This is what is commonly referred to as 'Leftism' in some Anarchist and left-communist circles, the substitution of material struggle and class demands for purely political, outdated and idealist demands. More detail would be good here. Which archaic strategies are you thinking of; and what actual examples of the left demonstrating a lack of relevance to the material struggle of the workers?

As for your critique of 'Leftism'. In the absence of economic struggle it is not surprising that organisations such as the SWP put their energy into campaigning on political struggles (against fascism, war and imperialism, etc.) when they open up. This doesn't mean an abandonment of the principle that the real power of the class is at the point of production. Having said that, the majority of the current slogans are about economic resistance to the austerity measures of the bosses crisis - which is, in turn, the most pressing political question of the day. Besides, as Marxists, the SWP see the division between the political and economic as a wall which needs breaking down. There is no "purely political sphere."

[Os Cangaceiros]

I usually find large gatherings of leftists to be alienating and uncomfortable. Especially when words like "comrade" are used...that word really grates on my ears, for some reason. It also kind of reinforces the idea of the modern left as an esoteric subculture, in my opinion.

[Raúl Duke]

I usually find large gatherings of leftists to be alienating and uncomfortable. Especially when words like "comrade" are used...that word really grates on my ears, for some reason. It also kind of reinforces the idea of the modern left as an esoteric subculture, in my opinion. I actually get this same feeling...but I've only been to gathering of activists (that aren't necessarily leftist but more like hippies, liberals, environmentalist, somewhat punkish, whatever kind of people; plus substantial percentage of activists from private universities...). I wouldn't know how it would feel working with or to be with other revolutionary leftists actually.

[Sam_b]

Leicester's picnic poster is wonderful. Almost as good as the Scottish section advertising 'Dialectical Materialist Munchies' in 2006.

[Devrim]

http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/118-635x476.jpg

It was very nice of the anarchist woman in the picture on the T-shirt to let them take a version without the names of anarchist organisations on the flag.
http://www.mrsite.co.uk/usersitesv17/redstuffshop.com/wwwroot/USERIMAGES/thumb_NO%20PASARAN%20IMAGE.JPG

http://libcom.org/files/cnt.jpg

For those who aren't aware, the CNT and FAI are the historical anarchist organisations in Spain.

Devrim

[Robocommie]

Proletarian revolution isn't a religious doctrine that you can convert people to. It's not as if billions of workers are just waiting to be told what's up by an enlightened group of proselytizers.

You always say this, it's become a catchphrase, but obviously they must be waiting for something because it's been over 150 years since the Communist Manifesto was printed and we have yet to see a successful first world revolution.

[M-26-7]

I wouldn't know how much a writer for that particular magazine would get paid, but in general journalists (in the U.S.) on average tend to be paid less than public school teachers.

Although if you "make it big" you can get paid large salaries.

OK, but do you really think that a journalist's income says more about his class than his position relative to capital does? I think the position of advertisement-driven media relative to capital is clear: it lives off of capital, so it supports capital. And individual journalists are the voices of the advertisement-driven media. I would say their position relative to capital is at least as much in support of it as cops, if not more so. And like cops, their income is much less telling than their objective roles within bourgeois society.

And as you point out, most journalists who are poorly paid despite being employed by major advert-dependent media organizations are probably just "paying their dues". Either they'll make it big in the bourgeois media and their salaries will go way up, or they'll fail and end up doing something else with their lives. Major party politicians have to "pay their dues" at the beginning of their careers as well, and they love to brag about their working class roots (if they have any), but it doesn't change the fact that as a group they are decidedly on the side of capital and the state.

This particular journalist, Alex Hoban, has articles in the Guardian and seems to be doing pretty well in the journalism/business journalism world so far. If you google his name you can see his professional profile on LinkedIn. There isn't much there to substantiate his oh-so-convenient claim that he loves Marx, but there is plenty of stuff that makes him look like a typical bourgeois journalist. I'm not going to pretend I know everything about the guy, but I'm not just going to take him at his word that he's some enlightened Marxist journalist either.

[Wanted Man]

By the way, I think a lot of people are kind of missing an important point. As far as I understand, an event like Marxism is kind of "semi-public" and mainly intended for the schooling of those who are already members or sympathisers of the party, as well as anyone else who is interested in particular subjects or "big names" like Zizek. Also, it's an opportunity for members of different sections to socialise in a larger, national-scale setting, hence the picnics.

I don't think it's supposed to be a super-accessible meeting where everyone sits together to discuss what kind of working-class action is needed in the face of the economic crisis. Perhaps there are other events for that; who knows? There definitely should be, but that's another discussion. Anyway, it's kind of weird that the author of the article is surprised to be confronted with SWP "hijacking" the proceedings, considering that it's their event in the first place.

Whether any of the SWP's approaches are right is definitely up for debate, but that's a different matter. Perhaps SWP comrades can correct me if I'm wrong about the intentions of Marxism, but I do think it's along these lines.


I usually find large gatherings of leftists to be alienating and uncomfortable. Especially when words like "comrade" are used...that word really grates on my ears, for some reason. It also kind of reinforces the idea of the modern left as an esoteric subculture, in my opinion.

I can kind of understand what you mean. I do not have a problem with the word "comrade" or people using it, as long as people use it in a normal way: "I was looking for the comrades from the Netherlands" or something like that. It is really grating if someone comes in and says, "Greetings, comrades!" Then it just sounds like some Hollywood movie with Russian characters who keep calling each other "comrade colonel" and what have you. Or when someone says, "He is a comrade", meaning, "He is a member of our organisation". :rolleyes:

[Raúl Duke]

OK, but do you really think that a journalist's income says more about his class than his position relative to capital does? I think the position of advertisement-driven media relative to capital is clear: it lives off of capital, so it supports capital. And individual journalists are the voices of the advertisement-driven media. I would say their position relative to capital is at least as much in support of it as cops, if not more so. And like cops, their income is much less telling than their objective roles within bourgeois society.

And as you point out, most journalists who are poorly paid despite being employed by major advert-dependent media organizations are probably just "paying their dues". Either they'll make it big in the bourgeois media and their salaries will go way up, or they'll fail and end up doing something else with their lives. Major party politicians have to "pay their dues" at the beginning of their careers as well, and they love to brag about their working class roots (if they have any), but it doesn't change the fact that as a group they are decidedly on the side of capital and the state.

This particular journalist, Alex Hoban, has articles in the Guardian and seems to be doing pretty well in the journalism/business journalism world so far. If you google his name you can see his professional profile on LinkedIn. There isn't much there to substantiate his oh-so-convenient claim that he loves Marx, but there is plenty of stuff that makes him look like a typical bourgeois journalist. I'm not going to pretend I know everything about the guy, but I'm not just going to take him at his word that he's some enlightened Marxist journalist either.



Ultimately, it depends on what section of the media industry they're working for...after all even Marx was a journalist.

I don't think "as a group" all journalists are "on the side of capital and state."

Or are you saying that the journalists of New Internationalist, Indypendent, etc are the same as CNN, Fox News,the Wall Street Journal, etc?
What about the journalists in mostly apolitical publications (like alternative weeklies, magazines, etc)?

[M-26-7]

I don't think "as a group" all journalists are "on the side of capital and state."

Well, I agree that not all journalists are on the side of capital, and my intent in using the phrase "as a group" was to make it clear that not all journalists are on the side of capital. However, as a group, i.e. generally speaking, they are. Specifically, I pointed out that journalists for advertisement-dependent publications are on the side of capital, and have to be.

[howblackisyourflag]

Ok article, fairly cutting about the left. The only answer i can see to getting support for the "left", is that it just takes a lot of time, and that people are redicalised during a severe recession. If thats not the answer then I dont see one at all because right now the left is invisible to most people.

[Guerrilla22]

I really don't see what is so wrong with picnics. I happen to enjoy them myself.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

You always say this, it's become a catchphrase, but obviously they must be waiting for something because it's been over 150 years since the Communist Manifesto was printed and we have yet to see a successful first world revolution.

Actually "they" have risen against private property quite a few times. In nearly all of those cases though, alien class forces took control of the struggles and redirected them. In other cases they dissipated or were smashed outright.

Bureaucratic socialism on the other hand has "succeeded" many times. At one point it prevailed in a huge part of the world, in several different varieties. The problem is that even when it succeeded it failed, and proved itself incapable of eliminating property in the means of production, class, exploitation, etc.

So, the first option has not had much of chance, but is based in the real movement of things. Where and when it emerged, for however long, it showed itself to be a genuine path to human liberation. It is the only path to a classless world of material abundance. The second option has had plenty of chances, and has revealed its real nature in practice, all over the world.

The fact that "comrades" pursue the second rather than the first shows exactly where their class allegiance lies.

History has proven the need for the working class to act on its own, in its own interests, without leftist directors.

[Robocommie]

I fail to see how if every single left communist revolution has been seized upon and then misdirected, how this proves that ideology is moot. If anything, it underscores the need for a clear doctrinal understanding of revolution. Unless you just want to keep repeating the mistakes of yesterday again and again.

[bcbm]

I wish we had something like that here in the states.. besides the sparsely attended anarchist book fair.

us social forum...


Not one mention of Marx, Engles, Lenin or Bakunin, just a whole lot of hogwash about Washington, Jefferson, Adams, and Paine --- and oh yeah... Paul Revere "The red coat are coming.. the red coats are coming.." that would mean you Brits. Anyway.. would gladly have been at Marxism 2010 any day.

speaking of paine (http://www.philly.com/dailynews/opinion/20100706_Was_Thomas_Paine_an_anarchist_or_Founding _Father_.html)

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

I fail to see how if every single left communist revolution has been seized upon and then misdirected, how this proves that ideology is moot.

Really?!? You can't see that bureaucratic socialism--lead by intellectuals, administrators, managers, etc.--has failed not only to eliminate class, exploitation, etc., but even to preserve itself?

You can't see that the people who carried out the Russian Revolution weren't the same people that came to rule the USSR?

You can't see that the May 1968 strikes in France were hijacked and derailed?

But I didn't say "every." I said in nearly every case. Other revolutions (e.g. St. Louis Commune) "were smashed outright."

This shows the need for independent working class action that goes all the way, less the next revolution be smashed or co-opted like those of the past.


If anything, it underscores the need for a clear doctrinal understanding of revolution.

What is a "doctrinal understanding?"

The last thing we need is more doctrine. Genuine revolution is never a product of doctrine.

“Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality will have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence.”


Unless you just want to keep repeating the mistakes of yesterday again and again.

It's exactly because I don't that I reject the followers of the authors of those "mistakes."


us social forum...

Or Socialism (http://www.socialismconference.org/), held by the SWP's U.S. counterparts.

[AK]

http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/121-635x476.jpg

Iran needs nukes? The PRC retains some semblance of a workers' state?

Oh christ, really guys?

[Ravachol]

Iran needs nukes? The PRC retains some semblance of a workers' state?

Oh christ, really guys?

In the Dutch/German autonomen milieu there exists a tendency known as 'anti-impies' who claim full solidarity with the Taliban and the Islamic Army in Iraq :rolleyes:

[Chambered Word]

Iran needs nukes? The PRC retains some semblance of a workers' state?

I wouldn't be barracking for Iran myself and even if I was an orthodox Trot I would be at a complete loss as to how they could possibly see the PRC as a worker's state in any way, shape or form.

[Raúl Duke]

In the Dutch/German autonomen milieu there exists a tendency known as 'anti-impies' who claim full solidarity with the Taliban and the Islamic Army in Iraq

As with the right (incidentally, unfortunately, and ironically), even on the left there's a lot of absurdity. It's all very interesting (in a voyeuristic sense) yet to any normal person it's insane.

[Fietsketting]

In the Dutch/German autonomen milieu there exists a tendency known as 'anti-impies' who claim full solidarity with the Taliban and the Islamic Army in Iraq :rolleyes:
Really? Who? :crying:

[Ravachol]

Really? Who? :crying:

Well in the Netherlands the tendency is almost dead (save for some marginalised individuals) but in the '80s/'90s groups like Frontline espoused these kind of positions. Whilst 'anti-impies' as a tendency are nearly non-existent in the Netherlands, similar sentiments are often heard when it comes to Palestine, Iraq or Afghanistan where all too often the activist milieu claim solidarity with reactionary resistance movements.
An example of this is the position of the "Internationale Socialisten", the dutch IST branch (http://socialisme.nu/blog/nieuws/1181/islam-fundamentalisme-en-links-2/).



We can see that, not for the first time, a 'left-wing' party like the PvdA (Labour-like social-democrats) sets aside all principles if it results in more votes. Ironically they are quite similar in this aspect to ultra-leftist sects who , in order to maintain a 'pure line', refuse all mixed struggle attracting different ideologies (including Islamic Fundementalism). In both cases the result is passivity and accepting that war-mongers can continue to spread death and destruction.


Apart from the completely assinine 'analysis' this is exactly the 'anti-impie' sentiment as it was espoused by segments of the autonomen milieu in the '80s and '90s. It's pretty common in some segments of the leftist milieu.

In Germany, the 'anti-impie' tendency is a bit bigger, with armed groups like the Antiimperialistische Zellen (AIZ) (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiimperialistische_Zellen) blending anti-imperialism with conservative Islam. Positions like this are similar to some positions espoused by Maoist-Thirdworldist groups and not so surprisingly some people active in these kind of groups either turned to conservative Islamism or Neo-nazism in later years.

[bricolage]

Callinicos, Zizek & Holloway speaking at the end of Marxism.

http://vimeo.com/13142973

In a way it's quite funny that last year the big debate was Callinicos vs. Zizek the year before Callinicos vs. Holloway...

[Forward Union]

I agree. How do you think we can go about this?

Buildign union branches and residents associations.

[bricolage]

Callinicos, Zizek & Holloway speaking at the end of Marxism.

http://vimeo.com/13142973

In a way it's quite funny that last year the big debate was Callinicos vs. Zizek the year before Callinicos vs. Holloway...

Just watched the second half, the guy that gets ranting from 11.30 onwards is particularly annoying.

[bricolage]

Also do people not think it's problematic that it features the line "all three will be signing their books after"?

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

even if I was an orthodox Trot I would be at a complete loss as to how they could possibly see the PRC as a worker's state in any way, shape or form.

China is not capitalist! (http://www.icl-fi.org/english/wh/202/china.html)

Why China is not capitalist (http://www.icl-fi.org/english/wv/850/kakehashi.html)

Whither China? (http://www.icl-fi.org/english/wv/archives/oldsite/2000/China-743.htm)

China on the Brink: Workers Political Revolution or Capitalist Enslavement? (http://www.icl-fi.org/english/esp/archives/oldsite/BRINK.HTM)

[Fietsketting]

Well in the Netherlands the tendency is almost dead (save for some marginalised individuals) but in the '80s/'90s groups like Frontline espoused these kind of positions. Whilst 'anti-impies' as a tendency are nearly non-existent in the Netherlands, similar sentiments are often heard when it comes to Palestine, Iraq or Afghanistan where all too often the activist milieu claim solidarity with reactionary resistance movements.
An example of this is the position of the "Internationale Socialisten", the dutch IST branch (http://socialisme.nu/blog/nieuws/1181/islam-fundamentalisme-en-links-2/).

Ah I see, it was more the dutch autonome wich i couldn't place, well aware off the IS clique ;)