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Buffalo Souljah
11th July 2010, 08:38
Why don't some on the left conspire to exploit Chinese labor in order to spread the purposes of revolution. The first interpretation of this would be that this would be equivalent to economic opportunism. However, as theorists in many fields have said over the years, the ends justify the means. The ultimate achievement of freedom and equality that would be achieved through this endeavor justify it, though no justification is necessary: the system encourages it, in fact.

I think to flirt Communism and organized struggle with traditional forms of capitalist exploitation would be not only ironic and novel, but would present the opportunity to change the working conditions for real workers in the world. All that would be required would be a small capital investment (http://www.fool.com/investing/international/2010/04/27/buffetts-investing-in-china-so-why-arent-you.aspx).

As Marx writes in the Communist Manifesto, "Die wesentliche Bedingung für die Existenz und Herrschaft der Bourgeoisieklasse ist die Anhäufung und Vermehrung des Reichtums in den Händen von Privaten, die Bedingung des Kapitals ist die Lohnarbeit. Statt mit dem Fortschritt der Industrie seine Lage zu verbessern, wird der moderne Arbeiter zum Pauper, d.h. er verarmt zunehmend trotz des Fortschritts der Industrie. Die Bourgeoisie produziert mit der Entwicklung der großen Industrie ihre „eigenen Totengräber“. Die jetzige Isolierung der Arbeiter durch Konkurrenz wird erst aufgehoben in ihrer „revolutionären Vereinigung durch die Assoziation“ (Kapitel I) or, "The essential condition for the existence and sway of the bourgeois class is the formation and augmentation of capital; the condition for capital is wage labour. Wage labour rests exclusively on competition between the labourers. The advance of industry, whose involuntary promoter is the bourgeoisie, replaces the isolation of the labourers, due to competition, by their revolutionary combination, due to association. The development of modern industry, therefore, cuts from under its feet the very foundation on which the bourgeoisie produces and appropriates products. What the bourgeoisie, therefore, produces above all are its own grave-diggers. Its fall and the victory of the proletariat are equally inevitable." (Chapter I)

Again, what I am recommending here is that a group of devout radicals or revolutionaries invest capital in cheap labor and means of production in China or Vietnam or Pakistan and publish editions of socialist literature--or just market this product (http://itgrunts.com/2010/06/28/cheapest-ever-a-15-android-computer/). It seems to me that, especially in countries and regions where access to the Internet, or even electricity is not readily available, this would be a useful resource for organizing peoples and consolidating a strong support base and further causes that encourage basic human rights, like Amnesty or HRW. I am thinking specifically here of Africa (which may be getting broad-based access to the Internet (http://itgrunts.com/2010/06/28/cheapest-ever-a-15-android-computer/) soon, so perhaps one should go with the latter method, aforementioned). What do you think?

AK
11th July 2010, 09:04
I'll tell you why: because we're better than the capitalists.

The end does not necessarily justify the means.

Blackscare
11th July 2010, 09:06
So let me get this straight...


1) Cadre pools capital, sets up factory in china
2) start selling 15 dollar computers
3) ??????
4) revolution!

khad
11th July 2010, 09:29
Given the fact that the chances for socialism emerging in China (no matter how degenerated the CPC is) is a lot higher than in Alabama, perhaps it is they who should be exploiting your ass.

Buffalo Souljah
11th July 2010, 09:48
Let's not be rude: it was just a novel idea. I have lots of friends who have suggested the equally ironic "Let's sell copies of the Communist Manifesto on the quad!" ideas--I don't think this is much different, and would, in fact be encouraged by the predominant order (which, by the way, is what is so interesting about the idea).

An aside: there are actually significant anarchist and socialist roots in Alabama, especially in the northern regions of the state, specifically towards Tennessee (though there are outcroppings towards the bay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairhope,_Alabama), like in Baldwin county), so you'd be surprised. Though I don't actually originate in Alabama (or America, for that matter), I do know a little about the area in which I live.

Buffalo Souljah
11th July 2010, 09:58
I'll tell you why: because we're better than the capitalists.

The end does not necessarily justify the means.

All of what you have said is true, but I do not think we are seeing things right: the particular "revolutionary cadre" involved in this activity would not necessarily take on the role of brutal colonial overlords in this case, like is the case, for instance, of Sony or Walmart in China (though they would be, in effect exploiting the labor of the Chinese, with the intent to free themselves and others around the world: a seeming paradox). I think this is a good question: would the ends justify the means in this situation? What would those ends be, furthermore--educating the public generally or encouraging an eventual revolution, more specifically? How could this end be achieved least harmfully? How would one spread information & propaganda relating to the revolutionary cause in areas without access to the Internet and/or electricity? How would such a measure be restricted or limited, either materially (economically) or ideologically (coersion, force))?

Buffalo Souljah
11th July 2010, 10:03
So let me get this straight...


1) Cadre pools capital, sets up factory in china
2) start selling 15 dollar computers
3) ??????
4) revolution!

Well, step three would be the traditional means of agitation/organization, which would entail building up worker solidarity and morale, and principally spreading the ideological battle over hearts and minds, the essential basis for any successful revolution. This would be done by spreading access to resources for agitation and organization that are available on the Internet, especially, perhaps, in places where access is not traditionally available, as in Palestine, sub-Saharan Africa and central Asia, for starters.

Chambered Word
12th July 2010, 08:12
I think to flirt Communism and organized struggle with traditional forms of capitalist exploitation would be not only ironic and novel, but would present the opportunity to change the working conditions for real workers in the world. All that would be required would be a small capital investment (http://www.fool.com/investing/international/2010/04/27/buffetts-investing-in-china-so-why-arent-you.aspx).


Tendency: hipster communism.

praxis1966
12th July 2010, 23:28
I might be more inclined to take this thread seriously if a certain someone could be persuaded not to use boldface and increased font sizes. Giving people the impression that they're being screamed at isn't exactly the best way to begin a discussion, after all.

Tablo
12th July 2010, 23:39
I might be more inclined to take this thread seriously if a certain someone could be persuaded not to use boldface and increased font sizes. Giving people the impression that they're being screamed at isn't exactly the best way to begin a discussion, after all.
I agree. Bolded large text only works when it is also colored red.

LIKE THIS

Sam_b
12th July 2010, 23:55
This is one of the most stupid suggestions i've ever heard on this forum, and I say this fully aware that Psy is at this very minute destroying all the credibility he had left over in the Politics forum.