Conspiracy theories O_o

[Blackscare]

I put this in chit-chat because I figure that this is a topic people wouldn't want in the regular forums, representing in some way what the general attitudes of this forum may or may not be. I understand that no one on the left wants the left to be made out to look kooky.


I have never taken a decisive position on the 9/11 "truth" movement, or whatever you call it. Mostly this is because, like every other conspiracy theory, people can't be satisfied with simply pointing out some weird inconsistency or what have you and leaving people to draw their own conclusions. They always try to invent some kind of narrative to make sense of whatever nugget of truth they may be on to.

The subject of 9/11 is a pretty complex one, and I don't pretend to know what happened or, if there was foul play in some way by the US government, how it happened or why. I do think, though, that there is some interesting evidence that gets routinely ignored regarding what happened that day.


What do you guys think on this subject? I'm sure this topic came up before, but I haven't seen it discussed myself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bdr_2IAJWU

[AK]

"These bullets'll touch your kids and I don't mean like Michael" :laugh:

[Nachie]

Now let me just preface this by saying that I am much more of a conspiracy nut than I would ever admit on this website. HOWEVER:

Let's say that the government planned 9/11 or was otherwise proactively involved in causing it. How on earth does that change anything about what we should be doing in our daily lives or our organizing? In what way does a discussion about the 9/11 conspiracy augment our understanding of the negative nature of the capitalist world system? Is there truly some level of genocide and evil that the powers currently ruling the world are capable of stooping to that would present to us a qualitatively different grasp of the radical ideologies we have already adopted? The answer for me personally is "no".

[mollymae]

I don't think the government was involved in planning it or anything, but at the same time I'd bet my life that there is a myriad of information that we don't know; only an idiot would believe all parts of the official story.

[Stand Your Ground]

I'm not big on conspiracy theories. But I do think the Bush admin had something to do with it. Either by allowing them to do it or, from what I have heard Bush had warnings it was to happen and did nothing. The reasoning, I don't know, oil maybe, to show the world the U.S. is still top dog? :rolleyes: I don't know if the world will ever know the truth.

[Guerrilla]

:rolleyes:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1671959&postcount=1

[CountryKid]

I don't think the Government themselves did it.

I think they allowed it to happen though.

[ContrarianLemming]

I am of the mind that the Us government allowed it to happen, and I wouldn't be surprised if they took part, but I think that's less likely.

Ever since i read about Operation Mongoose I've known the United States government is capable of anything. I am extremely thankful that the operation never went foward - not for moral reasons of course.

[Os Cangaceiros]

9/11 conspiracy theorists are really annoying. Apparently they can't get it through their heads that international power systems are more complex than an evil cabal of bankers controlling the world. :rolleyes: And the motive behind it doesn't even stand up to even the most basic analysis; for instance, if some kind of inner circle really commited 9/11 in order to persuade the American populace that Afghanistan had to be invaded, then why couldn't they forge evidence that there were WMD's in Iraq?

It's the political equivalent of Star Wars.

[Blackscare]

let's say that the government planned 9/11 or was otherwise proactively involved in causing it. How on earth does that change anything about what we should be doing in our daily lives or our organizing? In what way does a discussion about the 9/11 conspiracy augment our understanding of the negative nature of the capitalist world system? Is there truly some level of genocide and evil that the powers currently ruling the world are capable of stooping to that would present to us a qualitatively different grasp of the radical ideologies we have already adopted? The answer for me personally is "no".


Basically that's my perspective on it. I mean, regardless of how or why it happened, the government ruthlessly exploited it, which is really what's important. Really it doesn't effect what we do on a daily basis, although if there was ever some shocking revelation regarding that, it could cause a fair number of disillusioned people to look at alternatives in radical politics. Some of them might even become leftists :laugh:

[Blackscare]

Apparently they can't get it through their heads that international power systems are more complex than an evil cabal of bankers controlling the world.

This is what I meant by "inventing a narrative to make sense of it all". I think there are certainly some strange, worrying inconsistencies in the official story that should be explored, I just hate that it's the conspiracy nuts that are the only ones doing any looking into the situation.

[BAM]

Why should you avoid all that conspiracy theory nonsense? Because you might start talking like Alex Jones:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2w2TRxSLxw

I mean, wtf?!

[Blackscare]

Why should you avoid all that conspiracy theory nonsense? Because you might start talking like Alex Jones:


I mean, wtf?!


Dude that's common sense, tell me you don't actually doubt that? Sheep.

I bet you deny that the government can transmit information to a centralized headquarters from anywhere in the world via the color red. You really are a pathetic little lemming.

[BAM]

Dude that's common sense, tell me you don't actually doubt that? Sheep.

I bet you deny that the government can transmit information to a centralized headquarters from anywhere in the world via the color red. You really are a pathetic little lemming.

you sound like this crazy guy I once met who had these special sunglasses ...

http://trashfilmguru.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/they-live_2-20080813-125142-medium.jpg

[Blackscare]

Listen..... !

Don't blame me when the black helicopters come for you, cause that means they already got me!

Keep BAAHHHING, SHEEPLE! Judgement day is coming, and not from that piddly-ass god! That's right! I'M talking about the MECHA-PAULMCARTNEY APOCOLYPSE!










**********************


(Obviously I'm joking. Except for Mecha Paul McCartney, that shit is srs bsns)

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Why should you avoid all that conspiracy theory nonsense? Because you might start talking like Alex Jones:

I mean, wtf?!

Oh AJ, I love that guy. He's a great comedian. Ever noticed how his global conspiracy in the movies is always changing?

In an early movie, AMERICA DESTROYED BY DESIGN, it was a COMMUNIST conspiracy involving China and GORBACHEV (of all people!) working with the UN to take over the United States by establishing national parks and buying up harbours.

But since then the nature of his wacko conspiracy has changed several times, though maintaining a similar idea.

In End Game, Stalin and Mao and modern China were "experiments" by the GLOBAL ELITE to test their new systems of oppression before a world-wide launch...

[BAM]

That's right! I'M talking about the MECHA-PAULMCARTNEY APOCOLYPSE!

:D




(Obviously I'm joking. Except for Mecha Paul McCartney, that shit is srs bsns)

I want that so bad ...

[BAM]

A great book for anyone interested in conspiracy theories is The Illuminatus Trilogy. There's also a sub-plot featuring an Ayn Rand-like cult based around a book called Telemachus Sneezed. Very funny.

[ContrarianLemming]

In all seriousness
Jaws did 9/11 (http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Jaws_did_WTC)

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070327190636/uncyclopedia/images/b/b1/Sharkplane.jpg

[HEAD ICE]

I had a friend who called himself a "libertarian socialist" (I later found out he was some sort of mutualist) who was absolutely obsessed with 9/11 "truth." I decided to mess with him so I posted this on his facebook wall:

http://i27.tinypic.com/vwyaee.jpg

What followed was one of the most inane discussions I have ever taken part in and I am thoroughly ashamed that I entertained him for as long as I did. He repeatedly kept posting this link to "50 facts about 9/11" (http://911blogger.com/node/17949) and kept saying "the facts speak for themselves, evidence is very strong that the US government was AT LEAST complicit." I asked him repeatedly what the fuck difference does this make, and he set out to accomplish by evangelizing these conspiracy theories. Here is a collection of direct quotes from this gem of knowledge:

From a direct question of "what does 9/11 truth activism accomplish":
"Should financial fraud go unpunished? How about illegal peak-oil driven wars? Or torture? Or imprisonment without trial? Or interventions in foreign states and coups? Or assasinations? Or massive treasonous cover-ups? Or the criminalization of the poor under the label of "Al Qaeda"?"

A response to my point that "class struggle and revolution are the only things that will change those things":
"I'm not interested in revolution or class struggle. I guess you want to be the poet or the musician as people are blown up or raped?

more gems:
"9/11 Truth ends the wars. It's non-partisan. And yes, we've made progress which is why people like Cindy Sheehan have publically spoken about it and supported it. We've made progress with movements like http://www.facebook.com/l/57df6;NYCCAN.org and got politicians to support us. We've spoken in the UK Parliament too. We're gathering momentum.

You think I'm ABANDONING my criticisms of capitalism at the same time? Oh dear."

"I don't have time for class struggle you moron."

"Unlike you, I don't adovate smashing small businesses up to solve the worlds' problems."

"You have no respect for Cynthia McKinney and her fights against imperialism, social injustice, the 9/11 cover-up, etc?

She and Cindy Sheehan and other activists in the anti-war and 9/11 truth movement have done more good and had more impact than your marxist circle-jerk movements are doing."
(this was a response to me saying I have no respect for Cynthia McKinney, which I don't, because she has publicly stated she wouldn't mind working with white supremacists to combat Zionism)


"Capitalism was not the main cause of the economic meltdown. It was leverage-fraud and government bailouts. Violation of contracts and government bailout is not capitalism."

"There is fascism, and then there is capitalism. Unless of course you think the two are the same."

"I live in the real world.

We need to have priorities. Mine are ending the American Empire and its conquests to control world energy reserves, its interference in other nations, as well as how 9/11 is linked to this and peak oil and the phony "war on terror". We are on the verge of global conflict as well as conflict between different factions of people within nations (while the Elite stand and laugh). This is a non-partisan issue. My friend in Latin America agrees with me too and is sick of the CIA and its drug wars.

We have to form a realistic coalition against the criminals regardless of our own passionate personal desires to crush capitalism."

This and some homophobic comments directed my way ended all contact with this man. He is seriously a sad soul and I feel sorry for him. This is how conspiracy theories can rot your fucking brain.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Why should you avoid all that conspiracy theory nonsense? Because you might start talking like Alex Jones:

r2w2TRxSLxw

I mean, wtf?!

Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Ahahahahahahaha!

*pause for breath*

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

[Sir Comradical]

Alex Jones is a fucking degenerate.