GDR support for the 1984/85 Miners Strike

[A.J.]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/10524450.stm

An outstanding display of solidarity.

Three cheers for the German Democratic Republic!:)

[Tavarisch_Mike]

Didnt know that until now, once again the DDR shows its greatness :cool:

[Andropov]

Not surprised in the least.
Surely a topic for greater investigation from a Marxist perspective.

[Robocommie]

I know so little about the DDR and whether or not it was genuinely socialist. Generally here in the US, all you hear about is the Stasi and the Berlin Wall. Folks on Revleft don't seem to talk about it or the Warsaw Pact countries in general much. Anyone have any resources I could learn more?

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Slavoj Zizek mentions that in Nazi Germany the political security,the Gestapo, had 40,000 people in a country of 80 million, while the Stasi employed 102,000 in a much smaller country of 17 million. What this means could be debatable but Zizek makes the case that the much higher level of security in the DDR was ironically because of the ethos of solidarity taught by the regime, while the lower figure for the Nazi era implies the population provided tacit consent.

The DDR did have a tradition of Third World solidarity. Despite having a planned economy and a solidaristically oriented society, they seem to have been internally repressive.

Ostalgie still seems to be big. This represents nostalgia for a time when life was much more secure, but also a sense of pride in the accomplishments of and a feeling of patriotism for East Germany, despite the unpopularity of the regime.

This came out recently, although I haven't read it yet.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0300144245/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1

[Andropov]

Slavoj Zizek mentions that in Nazi Germany the political security,the Gestapo, had 40,000 people in a country of 80 million, while the Stasi employed 102,000 in a much smaller country of 17 million. What this means could be debatable but Zizek makes the case that the much higher level of security in the DDR was ironically because of the ethos of solidarity taught by the regime, while the lower figure for the Nazi era implies the population provided tacit consent.
I dont buy this whole "Police State" version of events, if indeed the Stasi were that big and that effective surely they could have prevented and neutralised the Middle class liberals agitating for Capitalism?

The DDR did have a tradition of Third World solidarity. Despite having a planned economy and a solidaristically oriented society, they seem to have been internally repressive.
Like I said above they could have repressed the Liberals who were agitating but they chose not to.
Also one of my friends's family grew up in the DDR and they loved it, a hell of alot more than Germany is now but sure that can be fobbed off as "Ostalgia" right? And not a conscious reflection that the DDR was not a big bad police state but an economically secure society with a functioning and healthy social consciousness that made life alot more beneficial to the working class than the Shiney packaged Capitalism.

Ostalgie still seems to be big. This represents nostalgia for a time when life was much more secure, but also a sense of pride in the accomplishments of and a feeling of patriotism for East Germany, despite the unpopularity of the regime.
Ive never heard Ostalgia being refered to as "Patriotism for East Germany".
Sounds slightly bizarre tbh.
The only evident forms of Patriotism in the DDR was the middle class liberals who were attempting to play the Nationalism card in relation to re-unifying with West Germany.
Its nice though that you have copied and pasted the standard Liberal retorts against the fact that the Majority of those who lived in the DDR consciously recognise it as a better form of society than the current Germany.

[bricolage]

I suppose this isn't that surprising, aside from the Stalinist leanings of Scargill (meaning he would be more than happy to build links with the Soviet alligned bloc) a lot of organisations and individuals donated money to the striking workers (including strangely enough an anonymous multi-millionaire that I have forgotten the name of). Some of it was motivated by genuine solidarity, some by opportunism. I wouldn't like to say too much about this as I will admit I don't know very much about East Germany, I do know about the crushing of strikes (eg. 1953) in the DDR though leading me to be more sceptical of the reasoning behind this.

[Barry Lyndon]

I wouldn't like to say too much about this as I will admit I don't know very much about East Germany, I do know about the crushing of strikes (eg. 1953) in the DDR though leading me to be more sceptical of the reasoning behind this.

I thought that was Soviet occupying troops, not the East German authorities. But perhaps they called them in.

I generally have a pretty negative view of the Eastern European satellite states, but they did have some good points. I know the DDR gave refuge to the African National Congress and Latin American leftists, so this funding of the British miners strike is not surprising.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

I dont buy this whole "Police State" version of events, if indeed the Stasi were that big and that effective surely they could have prevented and neutralised the Middle class liberals agitating for Capitalism?


The large number I think includes all manner of collaborators and informants as well as actual agents.

[bricolage]

I thought that was Soviet occupying troops, not the East German authorities. But perhaps they called them in.

It might well have been yes. I don't know how separated the two were at that time though.

[bricolage]

while the lower figure for the Nazi era implies the population provided tacit consent.

I'm not sure about this. From what I remember about the Gestapo it functioned on fear, ie. the belief that they were everywhere, that anyone could be a part of them, that anyone could be providing information to them. I didn't matter so much about having a physical presence just presenting the illusion that there was an omnipresent one.

[bailey_187]

Slavoj Zizek mentions that in Nazi Germany the political security,the Gestapo, had 40,000 people in a country of 80 million, while the Stasi employed 102,000 in a much smaller country of 17 million. What this means could be debatable but Zizek makes the case that the much higher level of security in the DDR was ironically because of the ethos of solidarity taught by the regime, while the lower figure for the Nazi era implies the population provided tacit consent.


It may interest you to know that the amount spent per capita on policing was higher in the west. In DDR it was $225 per capita in 1989(Diedrich, T., H. Ehlert, and R.Wenzke - Im Dienste der Partei. Christoph Links Verlag:Berlin 1998), while spending in West Germany for policing per capita in the same year was $264(Statistishches Bundesamt. Statistishches Jahrburch der Bundesrepublik Duetschland. Metler-Poeschel Verlag: Stuttgart 1996).

The difference seems small at first, but if we should also take into account the fact that border guards in the East, which were basicaly soldiers, were classed as police, while in West Germany they were not. We should also note the DDR figures include foreign espionage, while the West German figures do not as no one has access to these figures from the West as it was not annexed like the East, so states archives note opened/released yet AFAIK.

[Tavarisch_Mike]

There are many good threads here on revleft about the DDR

http://www.revleft.com/vb/east-germany-t135409/index.html?t=135409&highlight=east+germany

http://www.revleft.com/vb/berlin-wall-your-t106477/index.html?t=106477&highlight=east+germany

http://www.revleft.com/vb/democracy-east-germany-t122168/index.html?t=122168&highlight=east+germany

http://www.revleft.com/vb/deutsche-demokratische-republik-t99983/index.html?t=99983&highlight=east+germany

http://www.revleft.com/vb/majority-eastern-germans-t125381/index.html?t=125381&highlight=east+germany

When it comes to the DDR you can say that they made a hell of a good job with what they had. Immediatly after the war the country was totally destroyd, it had no natural resources and the Soviet union took the few factories they had as a payment for what the nazis had done during the war. Despite that (and a hell of other sabotage things the west did against them) they managed to build up a very well functioned society with a hughe and genereous wellfare system.

I came back frome a little trip to Berlin a couple of weeks ago and stayd most of my time in the part that used to be East Berlin, i talked with many locals about the time in the DDR and all of them where just positive, saying things that life was so safe and happy then. I you are in berlin i recomen that you visit the DDR museum, it has been accused for portrait the society to peaceful and good, when organizer and founders of the museum just say that this is what they experienced during its existence. Maybe some of the german members on the forum wants to tell us somthing. :)

[bailey_187]

Anyone have any resources I could learn more?

A very good book on the subject is Austin Murphy - The Triumph of Evil. This is a sort of defense of the GDR and comparison of it to the west by an American that lived in the the GDR.

A more indepth history book you may wish to read is German History in Marxist Perspective by Dorpalen

A small pamphlet on the GDR (more of a defense, put out by the British Communist Party recently) is John Green's Stasi Hell or Workers' Paradise? However, IMO, this books a bit rubbish.