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scarletghoul
8th July 2010, 12:57
This is interesting and pretty awesome. Don't see how people can doubt that Venezuela is in the midst of a revolutionary transformation.

http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/5474
Venezuelan Barrio Takes Socialism beyond Chavez


While President Hugo Chavez struggles to revive the battered bolivar, in a hillside slum overlooking his palace, die-hard supporters are talking about getting rid of the Venezuelan currency altogether.
Welcome to the 23 de Enero barrio, home to about 100,000 people and something of a laboratory for Chavez's nationwide socialist experiment. Here you find dogs named "Comrade Mao", and even a "revolutionary car wash."
"We are creating a popular bank and are going to issue a communal currency: little pieces of cardboard," says Salvador Rooselt, a soft-spoken 24-year-old law student and community leader who often quotes Lenin and Marx.
Some 20 militant groups sometimes described as Chavez's "storm troopers" run this urban jungle in western Caracas, where hulking concrete buildings daubed with colorful murals -- one depicting Jesus Christ brandishing an AK-47 rifle -- show off the neighborhood's radical tradition.
"We are giving capitalism a punch in its social metabolism," said Rooselt, of the Alexis Vive group, wearing its trademark bandana with the image of guerrilla icon Ernesto Che Guevara around his neck.
A deeply-rooted socialist ideology, absolute territorial control and financing from the government have allowed Alexis Vive to put into practice some of the ideas Chavez is struggling to implement in the rest of Venezuela.
Socialist stores sell milk and meat from recently nationalized producers at about a 50 percent discount. Residents do voluntary work, kids are encouraged to steer clear of drugs, and some youths have even joined a pioneer organization modeled on similar groups in Communist Cuba.
"I'm sure President Chavez supports our initiatives and seeks to implement them at a national level," Rooselt said.
Alexis Vive spreads its message via Radio Arsenal, an underground FM station Rooselt says was inspired by Vladimir Lenin's experience with a political newspaper a century ago.
They are also turning their hands to urban agriculture and fish farming to feed locals, and say that the future communal bank will extend micro-credit to foster economic independence.
“Tense Alliance”
Despite being a stronghold of the "chavista" movement with a massive electoral muscle that has helped the president win votes for more than a decade, 23 de Enero's radicalism has often proved a political liability for Venezuela's leader.
A series of attacks targeting opposition symbols such as the Globovision television station, and even the Roman Catholic Archdiocese, have led Chavez to publicly distance himself from these groups in the past -- although some neighbors think they still take direct orders from "Comandante Presidente."
George Ciccariello-Maher, a social scientist with a PhD from the University of California, Berkeley who has studied Venezuela's radical movements, calls it a "tense alliance" between the president and the barrios.
"Chavez depends on the radical sectors for support, but neither side truly trusts one another ... If he were to destroy them, he would be destroying his own base as well," he said.
Gone are the days when local groups proudly displayed their automatic weapons in front of visiting reporters. Militants from Alexis Vive say their armed struggle is over.
"Ever since the revolutionary process started there haven't been any weapons. We joined the Bolivarian militias," said Rooselt, referring to a 35,000-strong armed force recently launched by Chavez to defend his socialist revolution.
But other more belligerent groups within 23 de Enero appear to be still armed to the teeth.
In January, one of the groups released a video to the media showing its members dressed in military attire and brandishing automatic weapons and a rocket-propelled grenade launcher.
They called on Chavez to clean his government of corrupt "false socialists."
Security in 23 de Enero remains tight. Rooselt's told Reuters he received a call by cell phone the moment two reporters were spotted in the neighborhood.
That might explain why crime rates here have dropped by 95 percent, according to the militants, who say they have turned it into one of the safest places in crime-ridden Caracas.
“Spearhead of the Revolution”
Known in the past as "Little Vietnam," 23 de Enero has a long history of left-wing radicalism. The neighborhood's name refers to January 23, 1958, the date on which military dictator Marcos Perez Jimenez was toppled.
The community, mostly made up of rural workers attracted to the capital by Venezuela's oil boom, played a key role in the 1989 riots known as the "Caracazo," which claimed scores of lives when the army shelled buildings in the area for days.
Alexis Vive, for instance, honors community leader Alexis Gonzalez, who was killed by the police in 2002.
Berkeley's Ciccariello-Maher calls 23 de Enero an example of "alternative sovereignty" beyond the control of the state.
"The neighborhood and movements it nurtures represent both the laboratory and spearhead of the Bolivarian Revolution ... It is in 23 de Enero that the most radical forces are located, forces which drive the process forward," he said.

REDSOX
8th July 2010, 13:38
A great article and a great two fingers up to all those trots, maos, and anachos out there who think there is no revolution in venezuela. Go into 23 de enero barrio and you will see it, speak to the people there and you will hear it. Seems the residents of the 23 de enero barrio and the alexis vive collective are the hard left of the movement. Now hopefully it can be replicated everywhere elese and prove the doubting cwi's wrong

Crux
8th July 2010, 14:21
A great article and a great two fingers up to all those trots, maos, and anachos out there who think there is no revolution in venezuela. Go into 23 de enero barrio and you will see it, speak to the people there and you will hear it. Seems the residents of the 23 de enero barrio and the alexis vive collective are the hard left of the movement. Now hopefully it can be replicated everywhere elese and prove the doubting cwi's wrongLoltroll. Barrio 23 de enero are ahead of Chavez, are you incapable of reading? Had the CWI said what the colectivo alxis vive say in the article about corruption in the chavez government you would have undoubtly attacked us for "doubting". It's not about religious faith in el presidente, well at least not for marxists.

REDSOX
8th July 2010, 15:37
And are you capable of understanding comrade? that the Alexis vive collective is a passionate supporter of hugo chavez as the article suggests. Any understanding of the situation there and you would know that. Never mind the spin in the reuters article about tension between the barrio 23 and chavez and his government. Thats just bourgeois prattle and mischievism especially quoting some fuck who does not even like chavez yet alone socialism, but then when bourgeois reporting dovetails with your own fantasies mr M i shouldnt be surprised. If chavez really was thinking of going to go for the 23 de enero as the mischievous part of the article suggests dont you think he would have done it yet!!. And as for the part about corruption and bureacratism in government well chavez has gone for them. Ever heard of Raul baduel caught trousering 3.4 million dollars which was supposed to go to soldiers. Ever heard of the businessmen and politicians caught with their fingers in the till and have been arrested tried and sent to jail and their properties confiscated and nationalised. Ever hear of that MAj.?????? Thought not. And for the final time i dont slavisly worship chavez and the PSUV, they have many faults and have made a lot of mistakes, but they have done a hell of lot of good in venezuela in 10 years. Try to remember that maj

Crux
8th July 2010, 15:51
And are you capable of understanding comrade? that the Alexis vive collective is a passionate supporter of hugo chavez as the article suggests. Any understanding of the situation there and you would know that. Never mind the spin in the reuters article about tension between the barrio 23 and chavez and his government. Thats just bourgeois prattle and mischievism especially quoting some fuck who does not even like chavez yet alone socialism, but then when bourgeois reporting dovetails with your own fantasies mr M i shouldnt be surprised. If chavez really was thinking of going to go for the 23 de enero as the mischievous part of the article suggests dont you think he would have done it yet!!. And as for the part about corruption and bureacratism in government well chavez has gone for them. Ever heard of Raul baduel caught trousering 3.4 million dollars which was supposed to go to soldiers. Ever heard of the businessmen and politicians caught with their fingers in the till and have been arrested tried and sent to jail and their properties confiscated and nationalised. Ever hear of that MAj.?????? Thought not. And for the final time i dont slavisly worship chavez and the PSUV, they have many faults and have made a lot of mistakes, but they have done a hell of lot of good in venezuela in 10 years. Try to remember that maj
Ah and yet again you show yourself for the troll you are. While there might be some untintended humour in your rants I fail to see any usefullness in debating with someone as dishonest as yourself.

REDSOX
8th July 2010, 15:59
Cant answer the point about raul baduel can you. Doesnt fit in with the script does it? Well never mind the insults about trolling but i would appreciate direct answers to the points i have made please

Nolan
8th July 2010, 16:00
It's good what Chavez has done for class consciousness and all, but don't count your chickens before they hatch. There is no "revolution" yet and I don't really see one in the immediate future. Five, ten years? Maybe. The workers first have to give up their fantasy of a peaceful reform to socialism that the PSUV has spoonfed them, and that might take a while.

Also the fact that there is no strong Marxist-Leninist foundation yet to this movement could lead Venezuela to become just another Cuba in the best case scenario.

Crux
8th July 2010, 16:18
Cant answer the point about raul baduel can you. Doesnt fit in with the script does it? Well never mind the insults about trolling but i would appreciate direct answers to the points i have made please
You have made no points of any substance.

el_chavista
8th July 2010, 16:37
There are several leftist colectivos in the "Barrio 23 de enero":


Grupo de trabajo “La Piedrita”,
Colectivo Montaraz,
Fuerza Comunitaria Che Guevara,
Remadel 23,
Colectivo Salvador Allende,
Colectivo Reserva Social,
Colectivo Los Arbolitos,
Comuna Juan 23,
Foro Rebelde
Colectivo Martín
Grupo Carapaica

Out of curiosity (in Spanish language): a blog (http://el23netdos.blogspot.com/) and a free forum (http://el23.foroactivo.com/forum.htm) , colectivo "Alexis Vive" (http://www.colectivoalexisvive.es.tl/) clic ENTRAR (http://www.colectivoalexisvive.es.tl/GALERIA.htm) ,

Barry Lyndon
13th July 2010, 22:28
Hey, this is somewhat off topic, but we should seriously create a sub-forum for Venezuela under 'ongoing struggles', along with Nepal, Greece, and Palestine.

scarletghoul
16th July 2010, 11:51
Yeah I agree. There currently aren't that many threads on Venezuela being posted though (but there should be..)

bricolage
16th July 2010, 11:53
I don't think there needs to be ongoing struggles forums for everything and anything someone might think is important. I think they should only really be temporary for 'struggles' that are having lots of threads about them clogging up the politics forum.

scarletghoul
16th July 2010, 12:06
That would be cool but why is there a Palestine one.

Glenn Beck
16th July 2010, 12:24
Why do you Trotskyists have to split all over a perfectly good thread? Haven't you the decency to take it to PMs or something?

maskerade
16th July 2010, 14:14
why do some people hate on chavez and the socialist process in venezuela simply because it isn't following a strict marxist-lenninist or trotskyist ideology? All revolutions take different paths. I'm sure that i'm not the only one getting tired of this nonsensical sectarian bullshit. All power to the barrios!

Crux
16th July 2010, 15:20
Why do you Trotskyists have to split all over a perfectly good thread? Haven't you the decency to take it to PMs or something?
Eh what? It's RED SOX here acting like an idiot.

Oh and Maskerade,yeah, what? Who is that even aimed at? Happy thoughts don't keep a revolution afloat, it's not about "secterian bullshit", it's about winning, comrade.

RadioRaheem84
16th July 2010, 15:41
What is all the racket about? Stop the infighting. The people should continue with the revolution and take it beyond the level of reform imposed by the bureaucrats, with or without Chavez. This much has been plain as day since day one for any Bolivarian supporter. Just because this barrio is ahead of Chavez, doesn't mean that this puts a stake into the heart of Chavez and everyone can just laugh with pride. Remember that the naysayers were the ones that never even believed a revolution or social change was occurring. Lets hope (and pray, if you're religious) that more and more barrios continue in this fashion and that this will poke Chavez in the ass to get this train moving!

If anything this makes me effing jealous that such great things are happening in Venezuela, while I have to deal with a right wing alternate universe here in the States where we have a section of the working class listening to right wing radio and protesting against benefits.

RadioRaheem84
16th July 2010, 16:33
I look at my support of the Bolivarian Revolution as supporting the movements mentioned in the article. My support for Chavez is only indirectly due to the support of the former and against the imperial international bourgeoisie that wants to bring it all down; Chavez, Barrio 23 and all.

Barry Lyndon
16th July 2010, 19:14
Eh what? It's RED SOX here acting like an idiot.

Oh and Maskerade,yeah, what? Who is that even aimed at? Happy thoughts don't keep a revolution afloat, it's not about "secterian bullshit", it's about winning, comrade.

The workers of Venezuela are doing a heck of a lot more 'winning' then your self-pitying whiney masturbation circle.

Crux
16th July 2010, 19:26
The workers of Venezuela are doing a heck of a lot more 'winning' then your self-pitying whiney masturbation circle.
Quit wasting bandwith if you're only going to post this kind of nonsense. The only one who deserves any pity is you. And who's whining? "Boo-hoo you maintain a critical attitude towards chavez that makes me become sad and build strawmen" sound familiar? We are standing with the worker's of venezuela. Your strawman argument was not more true when red sox said it either.

Comrade Gwydion
16th July 2010, 20:56
Most people seem to lable my beliefs as Trot, yet I do support Chavez's Venezuela and his movement for Latin-American co-operation. The two largest "but"-'s to me seem to be
a) His involvement with Iran and Russia. I do not believe in "The enemy of my enemy is my friend", I am sorry.
b) the question of wether how and when he's going to resign. I am sure Hugo Chavez is not the only venezuelan politician who holds the same ideas and posseses some sort of charisma. It's better for Chavez to let someone else take over his task in a few years, in order to avoid the 'castro-dynasty'-sort of affairs. (Yes, I know, the power should be taken over by the people eventually, this is just in the meantime ;) )

Anyway, I am very happy to hear this story about the Barrio. There is room for a more radical Bolivarian revolution.

Chavez, Amigo, el mundo esta con tigo. (as apperant, I speak no spanish, but this is a purely phonetic way of writing what I heard on a documentairy and assume to mean 'Chavez, comrade, the world is with you")

So, how's that? A pragmatic trot.

Nachie
16th July 2010, 21:27
Back in 2006 I visited El 23 and interviewed the president of the Tupamaros. You can read about my experiences in chapter 20 of this text: http://www.ditext.com/nachie/bidder.html

scarletghoul
17th July 2010, 01:27
For all those anti-chavistas who love 23 de Enero and use it as 'evidence' that Chavez isn't revolutionary enough - do you think such a revolutionary bloom could occur under a right-wing death squad state, or even a 'centrist' neoliberal government ? It's pretty obvious that a whole lot of revolutionary potential exists, and that the Chavez government is on the side of the revolutionaries. In fact, given the huge powerful reactionary forces in Venezuela, the central government is just about as leftist as is possible without some kind of bloodbath.

Crux
18th July 2010, 15:43
For all those anti-chavistas who love 23 de Enero and use it as 'evidence' that Chavez isn't revolutionary enough - do you think such a revolutionary bloom could occur under a right-wing death squad state, or even a 'centrist' neoliberal government ? It's pretty obvious that a whole lot of revolutionary potential exists, and that the Chavez government is on the side of the revolutionaries. In fact, given the huge powerful reactionary forces in Venezuela, the central government is just about as leftist as is possible without some kind of bloodbath.
And you knocked over that strawman brilliantly, comrade. Well done. It's "just as leftist as possible"? Seriously?

Barry Lyndon
19th July 2010, 19:19
And you knocked over that strawman brilliantly, comrade. Well done. It's "just as leftist as possible"? Seriously?

What would be 'leftist enough' for you? Chavez painting CWI on his ass, and streaking naked in front of the cameras?

Crux
20th July 2010, 00:12
What would be 'leftist enough' for you? Chavez painting CWI on his ass, and streaking naked in front of the cameras?
That's not even worthy of a response.

Glenn Beck
20th July 2010, 00:25
That's not even worthy of a response.

And yet you've responded anyway! With another insightful one-liner. You've already done your part in completely derailing this thread to the point that (like just about every other thread on Venezuela on Revleft in recent history) it will either just quietly die or persist for a while in total off-topic nonsense. Just shut the fuck up already, my God.

Barry Lyndon
20th July 2010, 00:31
And yet you've responded anyway! With another insightful one-liner. You've already done your part in completely derailing this thread to the point that (like just about every other thread on Venezuela on Revleft in recent history) it will either just quietly die or persist for a while in total off-topic nonsense. Just shut the fuck up already, my God.

It's like the ultra-lefts see it as their sacred duty to spew hatred and throw tantrums at anyone who wants to post anything positive about the Bolivarian Revolution. I sometimes forget I'm on a left-wing thread and its more like I'm listening to Fox News.

Crux
20th July 2010, 00:45
It's like the ultra-lefts see it as their sacred duty to spew hatred and throw tantrums at anyone who wants to post anything positive about the Bolivarian Revolution. I sometimes forget I'm on a left-wing thread and its more like I'm listening to Fox News.
It's like Barry Lyndon is just a little troll. Read the thread, see for yourself. It was nonsense like this post, or it's clone in the RED SOX variant, that derailed this thread.

Me I think what the barrios exist as a force from below is certainly positive, especially with the looming threat of bureaucraticazition. And it is this stand-point that gives me this kind of nonsense from Barry Lyndon here.