Buy American

[The Red Next Door]

What is the Left Wing view of Buy American ideology and should we support it? Is it Nationalistic, so we should stay away from it?

[Broletariat]

Consumer choices are nearly irrelevant, and considering them to be relevant is essentially placing the blame on the consumer which is entirely false, the blame lays obviously on the Capitalists.

Consumer choices are completely personal.

[Stephen Colbert]

It's like choosing between an unhealthy burger and the just as exploitative, still capitalist in production, friend of unhealthy burger

[dearest chuck]

indeed, it would be cruel to ask people to do without their ipods and playstations.

[FreeFocus]

Yeah, it's nationalist bullshit. Look at the rhetoric that usually surrounds this type of sentiment: "Why are we doing business with people that don't like us?" or "Let's keep jobs in the hands of hard-working Americans. It's a competitive market, we have to compete with people in China and India."

Sometimes, it isn't as reactionary. The US has tougher labor laws than countries in the Third World, and some organizations certify that their goods are produced by union members in the US. Of course, despite good intentions, these organizations fail to see that the workers are still being exploited, and that their personal choices or group choices don't really change that fact.

[leftace53]

The notion of "buy" locally is in general a good idea. This way, we don't waste resources getting say sugar from halfway around the world, when we can just get sugar from the farm next door. However in a capitalist society, buy american/canadian etc.. its mainly nationalistic, as well as propaganda spread by companies and governments to tell people that purchasing local will boost the local economy as well as help in stopping sweatshops.

Also, I don't know about america, but here in canada, for something to be "made in canada" the item in actuality just needs like a button sewed on in canada, or the tag sewed on in canada. So the words "made in ____" don't stand for much

[Rusty Shackleford]

mind if i propose a question related but on the other end of this question?

what about production in the US. this country imports more than it exports so that must mean something. im guessing it means that fewer things are produced here than are consumed. this, im guessing, is a big factor into why the american proletariat doenst really seem like a traditional class. industry, and all that. its all service here. other countries produce for american based companies for americans or for markets in more well to do places than say the country in africa that has a coke factory.

would it be nationalistic to want production to increase here?



and... my opinion on the "buy american" is purely a propaganda point. most "american" things are assembled in the US but made in other countries. one example is cars. some cars show what percent of parts are from what country and how much of it was assembled in what country.

it really means nothing. and it doesnt really support american jobs if there is nothing in the US that really produces anything.

[this is an invasion]

Buy what you want. I don't care.

[FreeFocus]

The notion of "buy" locally is in general a good idea. This way, we don't waste resources getting say sugar from halfway around the world, when we can just get sugar from the farm next door. However in a capitalist society, buy american/canadian etc.. its mainly nationalistic, as well as propaganda spread by companies and governments to tell people that purchasing local will boost the local economy as well as help in stopping sweatshops.

Also, I don't know about america, but here in canada, for something to be "made in canada" the item in actuality just needs like a button sewed on in canada, or the tag sewed on in canada. So the words "made in ____" don't stand for much

I would say that buying locally is completely different though. I definitely support buying locally.

[Adil3tr]

We should support buying from sources that have to follow a least basic labor laws. Its more of a progressive thing than Marxist, but its better to buy from American workers than Chinese slaves, the surplus labor is less. Take a stand against the most exploitative globalization

[Invincible Summer]

We should support buying from sources that have to follow a least basic labor laws. Its more of a progressive thing than Marxist, but its better to buy from American workers than Chinese slaves, the surplus labor is less. Take a stand against the most exploitative globalization

The "Chinese slaves" are workers too.

[AK]

The thing is, it is the capitalists' fault for outsourcing jobs to places such as China and India. That is what we should be opposing, the concept of outsourcing above all. We can't support any one faction of workers - especially as the artificial divisions are largely nationalistic and racist.

indeed, it would be cruel to ask people to do without their ipods and playstations.
Take your disruptive third-worldist horse shit out of this thread and off Revleft.

[KC]

The concept of "buy American" has its root not only in national working class interests but also the petit-bourgeoisie. In terms of national working class interests outsourcing is viewed as the cause of losing jobs and lowering income and benefits. In terms of the petit-bourgeoisie that do not have the option of outsourcing they are either completely unable to compete with those who can or are put in a very disadvantageous position because of it.

This fits into a broader national narrative because the role the government plays in directly tying this into national interests and national ideology.

Interestingly enough, the import of cheap labour is theoretically equally as detrimental as moving the place of production overseas to the labour. This is one of the main reasons why immigration is so vehemently opposed by many workers.


indeed, it would be cruel to ask people to do without their ipods and playstations.

Yes, it definitely would be.

[Agnapostate]

It's essentially economic nationalism, as has been said. Now granted, the particular brand of globalization that characterizes international trade relations is a particularly exploitative facet of capitalism, but autarky won't improve the lot of those populations.

[meow]

the reason you should buy locally is that it reduces co2 emissions and other polution. thats the only real reason.
edit actually another reason is that it means you can actually know more about the company making or growing whatever it is. and support those that arent scum or as much scum.

[Blake's Baby]

The thing is, it is the capitalists' fault for outsourcing jobs to places such as China and India. That is what we should be opposing, the concept of outsourcing above all. We can't support any one faction of workers - especially as the artificial divisions are largely nationalistic and racist...

Odd. I see a massive contradiction in that: "we should oppose outsourcing: we cannot support one faction of workers against another".


We shouldn't oppose outsourcing, for 3 main reasons:
1 - it is precisely supporting one section of the working class (the national one) against another (the ones in another country), and therefore stoking up nationalist divisions;
2 - workers in India, China, Thailand and Indonesia (or wherever else) need to work too, and industrialisation in those countries will help both their families directly, and ultimately the international cohesion of the working class (protests have already begun to be felt in India, where workers are objecting to outsourcing to Indonesia if I recall correctly) - we are quite litteraly one world working class with the saim aims everywhere - the overthrow of capitalism;
3 - less than 3 per cent of redundancies in the past 10 years in the most developed countries have been transferred to 'developing economies' (from memory, I recall it's actually about 1.8%) and therefore it's a very minor problem for the working class even in national terms; therefore, it would be very inefficient to concentrate on it as a campaign, and at the moment there are far more important things to worry about; the massive job losses across the developed world aren't going to magically appear as jobs in China, they're just going, fighting that has nothing to do with outsourcing.

So, no, I think outsourcing is a red herring.

But, buying things made locally is better environmentally than long distance transportation of the same articles. Though it's quite true that "made in - " often means nothing more than "collected from around the world and assembled/put in a jar in - ".

And, yes, 'buy American' or whatever is just another way of banging nationalist drums.

[AK]

@Blake's Baby

So what do we do, then? We've got a bunch of angry nationalist workers, but how do we handle their concerns? We can't oppose outsourcing, so what else is there?

[IllicitPopsicle]

@Blake's Baby

So what do we do, then? We've got a bunch of angry nationalist workers, but how do we handle their concerns? We can't oppose outsourcing, so what else is there?

We give them cake.

[Blake's Baby]

@Blake's Baby

So what do we do, then? We've got a bunch of angry nationalist workers, but how do we handle their concerns? We can't oppose outsourcing, so what else is there?

What are their concerns? That their jobs are being taken to China?

I'd say we do what I just did: point out that the problem isn't outsourcing as such (if there's a hundred workers facing redundancy, only two jobs will be created in China); the problem is capitalism.

Point out that the working class in China (or wherever) is in the same boat, and tell them about the strikes that have been going on there (or in India, Bangladesh, Egypt, wherever the place is that's 'staying over there, taking our jobs'). The working class is worldwide and stoking nationalist divisions doesn't help.

Point out that 'British jobs for British workers' and any local varients of that slogan are nationalistic and poisonous for the workers. Also, that petitioning the state and the corporations is counter-productive; a better idea is to organise, strike, get other workers involved locally, make contact with the workforce in the foreign cities where the jobs are supposed to be disappearing to etc.