African socialists and communists

[Adi Shankara]

Without looking it up--how many of you know who Agostinho Neto, Julius Nyere, Thomas Sankara, Kwame Nkrumah and Patrice Lumumba are?

I'm just curious. I'm not trying to be a dick, But it seems almost no one knows who many of these Leftist revolutionaries and leaders are, and I'm trying to figure out why. it's not like they were minor leaders. many of them have contributed greatly to socialist theory, yet very few know of Ujamaa, Harambee, Uhuru, etc.

which then makes me ask another question: Why do we only know of Africa's dictators, but not their heroes?

[ed miliband]

I only know of Thomas Sankara.

[Adi Shankara]

I only know of Thomas Sankara.

:tt2:

[Devrim]

Without looking it up--how many of you know who Agostinho Neto, Julius Nyere, Thomas Sankara, Kwame Nkrumah and Patrice Lumumba are?

I know of all of them, and am familiar enough with them to realise at least that you have spelt one of the names wrong. Maybe a lot of it is just down to age though and you won't get that many people on here who know the names.

On the point of them being socialists didn't one of them make strikes illegal and was involved in the violent put down of a rail-workers strike?

Devrim

[Sasha]

even if you are only a litle bit intrested in history here chances are good you heard of lumumba, in belgium even more so.

[Sir Comradical]

My dad walked in and saw your username, he said "Thomas Sankara? He must be an Indian...", he pronounced it the Indian way and everything.

[Adi Shankara]

My dad walked in and saw your username, he said "Thomas Sankara? He must be an Indian...", he pronounced it the Indian way and everything.

lol, he was referring to Adi Shankara?

[Sir Comradical]

lol, he was referring to Adi Shankara?

No not really, he just thought your username was the Indian Sankara. I told him who Thomas Sankara was, he then said "he must be part Indian, then"...lol.

By the way, Adi Shankara is from my state of Kerala, what a coincidence.

[Adi Shankara]

No not really, he just thought your username was the Indian Sankara. I told him who Thomas Sankara was, he then said "he must be part Indian, then"...lol.

By the way, Adi Shankara is from my state of Kerala, what a coincidence.

My name is actually a word play of sorts--I am a big fan of non-dualist philosophy, but I am also a profound follower of Post-colonial philosophy...hence the double entendre of "Sankara". :cool:

[AK]

Well we can all pick the last option, thanks to Thomas_Sankara telling us all about Sankara.

[Blake's Baby]

Julius Nyrere imprisoned more political prisoners than the Apartheid regime in South Africa. There's another factoid for you.

[Uppercut]

I only know Kwame Nkrumah, thanks to the Coup and Boots Reily.

[chegitz guevara]

Lumumba was more a social democrat than a socialist, and you left out one of the most influential of African socialists, Cabral.

[RedScare]

Only one I didn't know was Agostinho Neto, looking him up now.

[Adi Shankara]

Julius Nyrere imprisoned more political prisoners than the Apartheid regime in South Africa. There's another factoid for you.

There is almost no proof of any of this; people say Oscar Karbona wasn't a coup leader, but there is ample proof he was (if that's what you're referring to).

[Blake's Baby]

From Sam Delgoff's pamphlet 'Third World Nationalism and the State' published by the Anarchist Communist Federation of North America (no date):

"For the 420 million people of Africa, independence has brought little, if any more, freedom than under colonialism. Tanzania has more political prisoners than South Africa..."

From the wiki article on Tanzania, in the 'Recent History' section, citing Legum, Colin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Legum); Mmari, Geoffrey (1995). Mwalimu: the influence of Nyerere. James Currey Publishers. ISBN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Standard_Book_Number) 0852553862 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/0852553862).

"Nyerere used the Preventive Detention Act first to suppress trade unions and then to lock up any opponents when he wanted. People disappeared and total numbers were never published, but victims are estimated at thousands. International human rights organizations such as Amnesty International campaigned against repression in Tanzania."

Anyone who wants can go hunting through the sources.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Without looking it up--how many of you know who Agostinho Neto, Julius Nyere, Thomas Sankara, Kwame Nkrumah and Patrice Lumumba are?

It's Juluis Nyerere, not Nyere.

[Zanthorus]

No because I am a eurocentric crypto-racist leftcom who only reads works by white european intellectuals ;)

[Os Cangaceiros]

Where's Mengistu Haile Mariam, a.k.a. "Black Stalin"?

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Lumumba was more a social democrat than a socialist, and you left out one of the most influential of African socialists, Cabral.

Since "African Socialism" is largely a hodgepodge of theory used to further the interests of specific groups with differing interests, it can be difficult to say who is an African Socialist and who isn't.

The most basic approach would be to include all those claiming the title, and that would leave you with a rather large and disparate group -- ranging from Kenneth Kaunda to Barack Obama Sr.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Where's Mengistu Haile Mariam, a.k.a. "Black Stalin"?

Mengistu didn't claim to be an African Socialist. He was a self-proclaimed Marxist-Leninist.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Only one I didn't know was Agostinho Neto, looking him up now.

Neto and the MPLA also claimed to be Marxist-Leninists, not African Socialists.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Is African Socialism an actual tendency? Or does it just denote socialism in Africa?

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

The folks who claimed to be African Socialists defined it as something different from what existed in say, the USSR.

And actually, there were variations within African Socialism. Nyerere had Ujamaa, Kaunda had Zambian Humanism, Nkrumah had Consciencism, etc.

[CleverTitle]

I know very little about most leftists/leftist movements across Africa historically.

I really need to take some time out to familiarize myself with it sometime in the near future.

[RedSonRising]

Are there any accomplishments within the movements of any of these leaders you can show us that reveal a positive attempt at establishing a functional authentic model of socialism within Africa? Or were these mostly theory-based socialist leaderships who for one reason or another fell short of transforming social relations at all....

[Animal Farm Pig]

I know a bit about Samora Machel. I really like this part of the old Mozambican national anthem:


....
Unido ao mundo inteiro,
Lutando contra a burguesia,
Nossa Pátria será túmulo
Do capitalismo e exploração.
O Povo Moçambicano
De operários e de camponeses,
Engajado no trabalho
A riqueza sempre brotará.
-------------------
United with the whole world,
Struggling against the bourgeois,
Our country will be the tomb
Of capitalism and exploitation.
The Mozambican people,
Workers and peasants,
Engaged in work
Shall always produce wealth.

[Adi Shankara]

Are there any accomplishments within the movements of any of these leaders you can show us that reveal a positive attempt at establishing a functional authentic model of socialism within Africa? Or were these mostly theory-based socialist leaderships who for one reason or another fell short of transforming social relations at all....

under Nkrumah, Machel, and Sankara's belts, there were many many accomplishments, that I can testify to.

[Adi Shankara]

It's Juluis Nyerere, not Nyere.

you mean Julius Nyerere? :tt2: ha it was just a mistake in spelling, friend, not much more than that.


you left out one of the most influential of African socialists, Cabral.

I only included the ones at the top of my head, most certainly not all. in the post-colonial period, there were many many African communists and socialists, more than the ones I listed, included Siad Barre, John Garang (although many others say that the Sudanese independence movement is more influenced by anarchist and liberation theology movements than actual communism or socialism, even if they have socialist elements in their movements), Kenneth Kuanda (who was successful in self-sufficiency until the 70s, when the surruonding capitalist states couldn't create a positive trade balance) and Mathieu Kerekou (who, although ruled as a military dictator a la Fidel Castro for many years, stepped down and allowed democratic elections for his people). many many African communists existed, some, like Kaunda and Nkrumah, remained socialist/communist and had successes; others, like Siad Barre and the Derg Party, turned their countries into denegerative worker states.

Some dictatorships and terror campaigns have been attributed to communist parties, but that's quite simply western propaganda; the RUF in Sierra Leone, Interhamwe in Rwanda, etc. were NOT communist. they were capitalist parties, that spoke against every value held close to a real socialist's heart.

[Adil3tr]

I only know of Lumumba and his murder at the hands of the CIA

[Devrim]

many many African communists existed, some, like Kaunda and Nkrumah, remained socialist/communist and had successes;

Do you mean this kind of socialist, or this kind of success?


In 1958 Nkrumah introduced legislation to restrict various freedoms in Ghana. After the Gold Miners' Strike of 1955, Nkrumah introduced the Trade Union Act, which made strikes illegal. When he suspected opponents in parliament of plotting against him, he wrote the Preventive Detention Act that made it possible for his administration to arrest and detain anyone charged with treason without due process of law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_process_of_law) in the judicial system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_system).
When the railway workers went on strike in 1961, Nkrumah ordered strike leaders and opposition politicians arrested under the Trade Union Act of 1958. While Nkrumah had organized strikes just a few years before, he now opposed industrial democracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_democracy) because it conflicted with rapid industrial development. He told the unions that their days as advocates for the safety and just compensation of miners were over, and that their new job was to work with management to mobilize human resources. Wages must give way to patriotic duty because the good of the nation superseded the good of individual workers, Nkrumah's administration contended.


The Nkrumah government was viciously anti-working class.

Devrim

[Adi Shankara]

Do you mean this kind of socialist, or this kind of success?



The Nkrumah government was viciously anti-working class.

Devrim

It wasn't like the workers were murdered or tortured though. there is barely a government on earth which hasn't had some sort of control like that, especially when Ghana was in it's infancy, especially when Nkrumah faced an assassination attempt, especially when he was constantly threatened with a coup (and he was eventually disposed in one).

I mean, didn't coal miners in the UK resisting privatization at the hands of Margaret Thatcher face violence? didn't the USA jail blacks, homosexuals, and communists for simply being who they are? Ghana didn't commit to democracy very well in it's infancy--but you'd be hard pressed to find a country that was. regardless, No other country can point hands at Ghana for they have often done the exact same thing.

He did fuck up on many things, including his later attempt at declaring himself president for life. but unlike many other leaders, he did improve conditions in Ghana. to this day, the Akosombo Dam produces most of Ghana's power. women were enfranchised and given legal status equal to men. To this day the vast majority of Ghanaians have a positive view of Nkrumah.

Therefore, I don't feel right judging his presidency for the end when he became increasingly paranoid and mentally unstable, due to an assassination attempt that left him like that (one has to wonder how Castro managed to do it, surviving over 600 such attempts).

He still didn't mass murder anyone, didn't restrict press freedom even as he became "president for life", and didn't endorse a cult of personality, and created a positive legacy in Africa that lasts until this day. That right there, is a record better than most US presidents. (esp. when you consider, between Eisenhower, Nixon, and Reagan, how much press freedom was dismantled, how much death they sowed, etc.)

[Devrim]

I mean, didn't coal miners in the UK resisting privatization at the hands of Margaret Thatcher face violence?

It wasn't about privatisation, but basically yes. I think that it is pretty fair to also describe the Conservative government under Thatcher as 'viciously anti-working class'.

The point is that all states are capitalist, and all of them attack the working class. You on the other hand seem to be suggesting that Nkrumah was a communist. I was just asking what type of communist heads a government that attacks workers like that.


No other country can point hands at Ghana for they have often done the exact same thing.

But communists are not other countries, and they do criticise all capitalist states, of which Ghana evidently was one.

Devrim

[Hiero]

It is rather contradictory they way you (Thomas Sankara) make yourself appear to be similar or well knowing of these individuals when you differ so much and actually take more of a Euro-commumunist position on alot of issues, one being the DPRK.

[∞]

Does Mandela count?

[Obs]

It is rather contradictory they way you (Thomas Sankara) make yourself appear to be similar or well knowing of these individuals when you differ so much and actually take more of a Euro-commumunist position on alot of issues, one being the DPRK.
Well, there's a non-sequitur if I ever saw one.

[KurtFF8]

The point is that all states are capitalist,

I'm curious as to what definition of capitalism would make this the case (honest question)


Does Mandela count?

No, but he was allied with the SACP via the ANC.

I just watched an interesting documentary about Cuban intervention in Africa from 1960 to 1991 called Cuba Africa Revolution (http://docuwiki.net/index.php?title=Cuba_Africa_Revolution) that should provide some further insight to the African left from that period.

[redSHARP]

though not actually born in Africa, Joe Slovo. he was part of the SACP back in the apartheid days and helped organize Marxists and socialists in southern Africa.