Tea Party's Historical Role

[Adil3tr]

I believe that the Tea Party is a new American manifestation of fascism like Trotsky outlined. They are petite bougosie with wealthy support and propaganda, attacking liberal, socialists (progressives), gays, gypsies (mexicans), and jews (muslims). Powerful military, closed borders, prison-complex, rascism, drop the safety net, rabid patriotism. The one thing they won't do is a wellness campaign.

Only in America could there be a counter revolution to the never ending counter revolution.

[GPDP]

I agree. In fact, if the last poll on the issue (on whether the Tea Party is fascist) is any indication, so do most of us here on RevLeft.

They are a dangerous development in what passes for contemporary "politics" here in the states.

[Saorsa]

But there's hardly an insurgent working class that would drive the bourgeoisie to dispense with bourgeois democracy... While the Tea Party are conservative and they are reactionary, I don't think fascism is around the corner yet in the States.

[NGNM85]

..While the Tea Party are conservative and they are reactionary, I don't think fascism is around the corner yet in the States.

I concur.

Also, I think the characterization of the Tea Partiers' (As they call themselves.) as 'petit-bourgeois' is incorrect. The leaders are bourgeois, but the rank-and-file are predominantly working-class. That's what makes them so absurd.

[jake williams]

I concur.

Also, I think the characterization of the Tea Partiers' (As they call themselves.) as 'petit-bourgeois' is incorrect. The leaders are bourgeois, but the rank-and-file are predominantly working-class. That's what makes them so absurd.
This is certainly true. The attempts to paint them as petty-bourgeois and or "fascist" is, frankly, an attempt on the part of American organizers to abdicate their responsibility to have been organizing the rank and file of this new movement, in many ways their natural constituency.

At any rate, you can't have fascism without state power, or without ruling class support. Even the leadership of the Republican party is fighting vigorously to suppress the Tea Party folks, and the leadership of the Republican party is practically fascist.

[danyboy27]

I concur.

Also, I think the characterization of the Tea Partiers' (As they call themselves.) as 'petit-bourgeois' is incorrect. The leaders are bourgeois, but the rank-and-file are predominantly working-class. That's what makes them so absurd.

year, i read somewhere that a good part of tea party people are even on social benefit.

this not so surprising tho, the discontent of worker always find a medium, and where there is no real grassroot leftist movement, right wing populist movement come into play.

[NGNM85]

This is certainly true. The attempts to paint them as petty-bourgeois and or "fascist" is, frankly, an attempt on the part of American organizers to abdicate their responsibility to have been organizing the rank and file of this new movement, in many ways their natural constituency.

This does represent a serious failure on the left. That we have been so ineffectual in galvanizing this well of popular discontent, that we've been unable to connect on these basic issues which directly affect Americans' lives.


At any rate, you can't have fascism without state power, or without ruling class support. Even the leadership of the Republican party is fighting vigorously to suppress the Tea Party folks, and the leadership of the Republican party is practically fascist.

Ehh, it's complicated. What they really want to do is steer all of them into the Republican party, they're trying to extend themselves even further to the right to appeal to this demographic. Although, this in itself is part of a larger trend over the past few years where both parties have moved to the right, but the republican party has taken a really Stalinist posture, demanding ideological conformity, and purging the ranks of unathorized opinions. Some of the smarter, and more moderate republicans are nervous that this is ultimately a destructive, and self-defeating tendency, that they're galloping into oblivion, which isn't unfounded. There have been major bumps in the road, like the party essentially being forced by the Tea Partiers to adopt a total wing-nut like Sharon Angle who's completely out-to-fucking-lunch. They've tried to streamline her, and clean her up, steer away from her wacky ideas about flouridation, wiping out the EPA, the Dept. of Education, Social Security, and medicare, and bringing back prohibition. However, this crazy shit is going to come out somehow. It's still possible she might actually win, unfortunately. Fuck, if Sarah Palin, or Michelle Bachmann can mobilize a substantial amount of voters fucking anything can happen. I tend to think, in the long-run this will probably be damaging to the republicans, but I think it will be more damaging for America. We live in very strange times.

[Mindtoaster]

I concur.

Also, I think the characterization of the Tea Partiers' (As they call themselves.) as 'petit-bourgeois' is incorrect. The leaders are bourgeois, but the rank-and-file are predominantly working-class. That's what makes them so absurd.

As someone from the heartland of the Tea Party, I can assure you the rank and file ARE petite-bourgeois, with a minority white working-class membership.

They are mostly rural small business and farm owners (NOT farm-hands) and white people from gated neighborhoods and suburbs. I don't know about up north but this is the case in the deep south. Working class whites down here tend to be conservative (but not activists) or a-political.

[Raúl Duke]

As someone from the heartland of the Tea Party, I can assure you the rank and file ARE petite-bourgeois, with a minority white working-class membership.

They are mostly rural small business and farm owners (NOT farm-hands) and white people from gated neighborhoods and suburbs. I don't know about up north but this is the case in the deep south. Working class whites down here tend to be conservative (but not activists) or a-political.

I've had a similar experience in Florida, although my experiences are limited due to being mostly in a college environment. Most die-hard conservative/republicans come from affluent backgrounds (also many retired) and/or are petit-bourgeois.

The working class whites tend to be conservative, true, but also somewhat cynical with the government in general.

[Adil3tr]

I concur.

Also, I think the characterization of the Tea Partiers' (As they call themselves.) as 'petit-bourgeois' is incorrect. The leaders are bourgeois, but the rank-and-file are predominantly working-class. That's what makes them so absurd.

But if you listen to alot of the people in the south, they think of themselves as petite bourgeois. Its a farmers mentality thats built into their culture. Its important to realize this if you want to bring over to our side one day.

[The Fighting_Crusnik]

To me, the tea party movement is starting to stagnate a bit. However, when election time comes next November, they're going to be worse than ever... but with that said, I can see a few of them doing something or many things that are so stupid and so violent, that the entire movement collapses because of the strong anger created by the public because of these actions.

And with the whole thing with a chunk of them being on a social program, it made me laugh when I saw a protester sign that said ,,keep your government hands out of my medicare!'' XD

[Salyut]

If you guys don't mind I'd like to toss out a really useful/relevant book: Deer Hunting with Jesus: Dispatches from America's Class War by Joe Bageant.

I'd link the ebook but I don't think the mods would like that...

[chegitz guevara]

But there's hardly an insurgent working class that would drive the bourgeoisie to dispense with bourgeois democracy... While the Tea Party are conservative and they are reactionary, I don't think fascism is around the corner yet in the States.

I think that because, in the past, fascism has always been used as a weapon against the worker class, we assumed that it would only arise to be used as a weapon against the worker class, forgetting that capitalism is a tricksy devil, which will subvert anything for its own purposes.

In this case, the finance capital section of the ruling class unleashed fascism, not against an insurgent worker class, but insurgent industrial capitalism, which was seeking to use the state to try and break FIRE's (Finance, Insurance, and Real Estate) stranglehold over the rest of the capitalist class.

When trillions of dollars are on the line, capitalists will support fascism, if that's what it takes.


I concur.

Also, I think the characterization of the Tea Partiers' (As they call themselves.) as 'petit-bourgeois' is incorrect. The leaders are bourgeois, but the rank-and-file are predominantly working-class. That's what makes them so absurd.


This is certainly true. The attempts to paint them as petty-bourgeois and or "fascist" is, frankly, an attempt on the part of American organizers to abdicate their responsibility to have been organizing the rank and file of this new movement, in many ways their natural constituency.

You forget that in classic fascism, a large part of the movement was made up of politically backwards workers. Consider, for example, the SA.

However, you have also erred in your analysis of the Tea Party. Surveys show that at least 50% of those in the movement are those who could correctly be termed, petty bourgeois, which is a disproportionately large percentage of the movement, given their relative numbers in American society.

[Spear Of Sankara]

They are used by the rich, and the religeous institutions, to perpetuate racism, anti worker mentality and to act as a roadblock to even the slightest reforms.

There were some on youtube ranting how black women are inferior and have lots of abortions, i thought to myself, if you think black people are inferior, why are you against them having Abortions??

Maybe they envisage a time whn they need all the blacks they can get to pick their cotton, i got one thing to say about that.

FUCK YOU MISS DAISY

[ComradeOm]

...attacking liberal, socialists (progressives), gays, gypsies (mexicans), and jews (muslims). Powerful military, closed borders, prison-complex, rascism, drop the safety net, rabid patriotismAll of which amounts to nothing but a particularly unpleasant strain of politics. The TP cannot be considered fascist until it takes the next step and becomes an openly anti-parliamentary movement. As far as I'm aware, this is not yet the case

I'm reminded of various historical leagues, particularly in France, which encapsulated the impotent and incoherent rage of a threatened petit-bourgeoisie but remained within the bounds of parliamentary democracy. There is a definite distinction between being fascist and merely having 'fascist tendencies'


However, you have also erred in your analysis of the Tea Party. Surveys show that at least 50% of those in the movement are those who could correctly be termed, petty bourgeois, which is a disproportionately large percentage of the movement, given their relative numbers in American society.Which is not significantly less than that of the NSDAP (at 60%) and certainly enough to classify the movement as petit-bourgeois. Particularly so if, as I suspect, these petit-bourgeois elements provide the bulk of leadership and 'cadre' numbers

[Die Neue Zeit]

The Nazis remained within the bounds of parliamentarism, though. The Reichstag simply didn't have the spine to ban the militias.

[ComradeOm]

The Nazis remained within the bounds of parliamentarism, thoughNope, they merely used it as a platform. Dismantling Weimar democracy, so much of it as was left by '33, was a key aim of the Nazis and their main power base remained outside of parliamentary structures. The importance of their parliamentary weight was not in that it allowed them to form a government, it did not, but that it demonstrated to the military that the NSDAP had enough of a mass following to complement the more conservative anti-Republican elements

Contrast with the French leagues of the 1930s which never challenged the Republic's existence and, on the banning of the paramilitaries, took their place on the right wing of French parliamentary democracy

[jake williams]

However, you have also erred in your analysis of the Tea Party. Surveys show that at least 50% of those in the movement are those who could correctly be termed, petty bourgeois, which is a disproportionately large percentage of the movement, given their relative numbers in American society.
Frankly, elements which could reasonably termed "petty bourgeois" are overrepresented in political movements in general, including Marxist organizations. Such people often have more time, energy and resources to put into political activity.

The fact is that regardless of who is leading particular demonstrations, the ideology put forth by the Tea Party has a mass appeal, for sensible reasons - even if it's absurd and terrifying. It has such an appeal, again, because a lot of these people aren't being organized by anyone else.

Moreover, a lot of those termed "petty bourgeois" have had or are about to have their "small businesses" destroyed by the forces of monopoly capitalism, and thus are soon enough going to form a part of the working class proper. They know this and they're pissed, whether or not you or I might like the conclusions they come to.

And again: even the most reactionary parts of the American ruling class are resisting the Tea Party (with some small exceptions), quite opposed to the stance taken by the ruling class globally in response to fascism.

[chegitz guevara]

Moreover, a lot of those termed "petty bourgeois" have had or are about to have their "small businesses" destroyed by the forces of monopoly capitalism, and thus are soon enough going to form a part of the working class proper. They know this and they're pissed, whether or not you or I might like the conclusions they come to.

This is exactly the section of the petty bourgeoisie that turns to fascism and the very reason for it. They are being crushed by capitalism and are fearing proletarianization. But, rather than blame capitalism, they blame the Democrats, or Blacks, Mexicans, etc. They are a mass movement of the enraged petty bourgeoisie faced with ruin. That's the classic definition of a fascist movement.


And again: even the most reactionary parts of the American ruling class are resisting the Tea Party (with some small exceptions), quite opposed to the stance taken by the ruling class globally in response to fascism.

Except that they are being funded by the insurance industry and other finance capitalists. You're looking at politicians, not sectors of the ruling class. The rest of the bourgeoisie correctly sees them as a threat to their interests.

The number one cost killing American business is health care. Most of us simply look at health care as a workers' need, but businesses have to pay for it, and they pay double the costs in the U.S. as in Europe. It's making them uncompetitive, and drove GM and Chrysler into bankruptcy. They need health care reform to survive, and they didn't get it. The insurance industry needed to insure that there was no public option, no way for other companies to opt out of monopolistic pricing that currently is bleeding them to death.

The Tea Party movement was not aimed at the workers, but at other capitalists, seeking to get out from under the yoke of finance capital. They succeeded in their role admirably, and have been tossed aside, now that they are no longer needed. Although reactionaries financiers like Koch will continue to finance them, I think they will decline after November ... unless Democratic Party base stays home and lets a bunch of these nuts into government.

[Ilyich]

“When fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag and waving a cross." ~ Sinclair Lewis

We have all heard this or some variation on it, but it is obviously realized by the Tea Party.

[Rusty Shackleford]

wow, a year old thread necro'd. but just in time.

The Tea Party is at a crossroads right now methinks.

It seems the "movement" has fully become parliamentarian. The last major wave of on the street stuff was in april with becks 'flash mobs of kindness' actions. They show up to some counter-protests but they got drowned out pretty bad in Wisconsin.

They are probably gearing up for 2012 which i think is what they are really aiming at. a massive shift to the right. who knows if they will tone down their pseudo-fascistic rhetoric though to get votes.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Tea Party = paper tiger

[tanklv]

year, i read somewhere that a good part of tea party people are even on social benefit.

this not so surprising tho, the discontent of worker always find a medium, and where there is no real grassroot leftist movement, right wing populist movement come into play.


Does the popular TeaBagger (original name for them - I will only call themselves by the name the orignially gave themselves until they found out what is really means) cry of "KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF MY MEDICARE" ring a bell?!! Because it SHOULD.

These are really IGNORANT people.

Remember all the "NIGGER" and "AFRICA HAS LIONS AND AMERICA HAS A LYING AFRICAN" signs. These peoplpe are RACISTS - the former KKK and John Birchers/American Nazi Party types.

They are hardly some innocent foolish duped bourgeois wannabes...

[Jimmie Higgins]

wow, a year old thread necro'd. but just in time.

The Tea Party is at a crossroads right now methinks.

It seems the "movement" has fully become parliamentarian. The last major wave of on the street stuff was in april with becks 'flash mobs of kindness' actions. They show up to some counter-protests but they got drowned out pretty bad in Wisconsin.

They are probably gearing up for 2012 which i think is what they are really aiming at. a massive shift to the right. who knows if they will tone down their pseudo-fascistic rhetoric though to get votes.

Right, I think a telling sign of the relationship between this "movement" and the ruling class is that they seem to be all over the media only right before an election and then immediately disappear from the media spotlight.

They are basically "useful idiots" for pro-business agenda.

As to their class basis, I think the NYTimes poll done in 2009 about the background of most of the tea-party supporters is helpful:

They tend to be better paid than average Americans (I think the average was like 100k a year), whiter, and older than average people in the US. I don't really believe in "generation gaps" but I do think most of these people came to political age in a period of ruling class war on the population, bought into the rhetoric, and are mobilized because the worldview they have adopted is being challenged by... well reality. I think probably, and according to the poll, that many of them are professionals although there are probably many more that are workers - maybe high paid, but workers non the less.

Despite their claims of being grassroots (and no doubt the ideas they have - ideas pushed on the population for the last 30 years through AM radio, and think tanks and the like - are widespread... though thin imo) their organizations are generally top-down and promoted and funded by wealthy individuals or right-wing organizations.

Are they fascists? No. They are not organized really to be enforcers on the street for these politics. Right now they are more or less a right-wing pressure group used to demoralize opposition and create the illusion that pro-business politics have a huge popular base. This is why the Republicans pander to them and Democrats do nothing to stop them whereas the Democrats are much much harsher to their own liberal supporters who might criticize the Democrats for not "following through". After Obama said nothing about the tea-parties and their blatant racism, who did Obama say was the cause of the Republicans wining in the mid-terms... liberal Democratic supporters who didn't give the Dems enough support. The Tea-party gives Democrats the perfect opportunity NOT to even give lip service to pro-worker/pro-poor reforms... "I don't want to but we hafta do something about the deficit or the tea-partiers will go crazy! I'd love to give you healthcare, but these tea-partiers are crazy!" Bullshit.

So both Republicans and Democrats are perfectly happy with the strawmen "real amurikuns" the tea-party supposedly represents. But I do think that within the tea-party there are real fascists and they have been using this manufactured protest movement to mainstream some of their politics. Also the social pressures that cause some people to be attracted to the tea-party are very similar to the kinds of things that would produce a fascist movement in the US (which is why fascists try and recruit these people too). But the only tea-partiers who are actually being thugs and street-enforcers are random loners, it isn't an organized fascist movement.

Probably the lack of a grassroots worker's response to the attacks and austerity has made the utility of a real fascist movement void. The Minutmen who not only patrolled the border but went to immigrant rights protests to try and intimidate people are closer to a proto-fascist movement in the US. FYI in the Sinclair Lewis book that the "draped in the American flag..." quote comes from, the brown-shirts were called Minutemen.

[Klaatu]

While the Tea Party are conservative and they are reactionary, I don't think fascism is around the corner yet in the States.

Perhaps Fascism is not originating from within the government itself, but rather originating from a collaborating cabal of corporate plutocrats? Looks that way to me.

[Rusty Shackleford]

I was going to make a whole independent thread on it but i think it might be worth it in here.

This whole dramatic Debt Ceiling debate is just insane. And i think the Tea Party might be to thank. They have locked both of the capitalist parties into their party lines. Apparently, the Republicans cant and wont make a move that could cost them their Tea Party support while the Democrats like usual put social spending on the chopping block right away but their part of the deal is to raise taxes on certain groups. GOP and Tea Party lines forbid that. totally and completely.

Its amazing how fast a corporate funded movement could grow and ultimately break down politics solely on party lines in Congress.

i be there is going to be a liberal who runs for office who is all about non-partisanship... again... in 2012.

[praxis1966]

I think Jimmy Higgins makes some excellent points in his analysis of the internal machinations of the TEA Party. However, it seems to me that my experience has been a bit different in conversations with people whom I believe to be directly involved with or at least supporters of their movement. For instance, an old bandmate of mine whom I believe supports them (he has alternatively used TEA Party buttons and the "Don't tread on me" flag as his FaceBook default pictures) can in no way be considered petite-bourgeois. He's of proletarian background all the way and he's a vet... A group of people whom I understand to feel pretty amicably toward the TEA Party by and large. The fact that he and people like him sympathize with them and are really good with M-16s bothers me a bit.

Further, I'm concerned about not just the TEA Party not in and of itself, but in their relationship to the wider right-populist movement and organizations like the Minutemen and various sundry radical anti-choice groups... I'm not entirely sure what would have to occur to make this happen, but I have the feeling that this joining of hands could certainly stem from a combination of further economic slide and the reelection of the guy they all love to hate. Whether this could push them out of parlamentarianism altogether is something I couldn't begin to predict, though.

[RadioRaheem84]

Seems more like the Fatherland and Liberty movement of Chile during the Allende years. Petit-bougie types, small business owners, middle management, professionals, and a small working class component.

Tea Party movement is largely supported by upper middle to middle-middle class white Americans.