What do you still do that you consider "bourgeois"?

[Stephen Colbert]

I golf a lot and the other day it dawned on me that really golf is one of if not the most elitist and bourgeois sport I can do in my spare time. I was wondering if any comrades still partake in sports, activities etc that are not in anyway representative and indicative of the working class struggle.

And let me know how you feel about not being completely proletarian :P

[Tablo]

I play high end computer games on my expensive computer.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

was wondering if any comrades still partake in sports, activities etc that are not in anyway representative and indicative of the working class struggle.


Everyone does and there's not anything wrong with doing so, all activity can't be restricted to political work. Golf isn't bourgeois either, in fact, what is wrong with any past time as long as you enjoy, no point saying things are bourgeois, we should partake in them and subvert them.

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh good I was concerned some people just sat in a windowless room all day and read free books online or from the public library while eating organic home grown food and making DIY clothing :P

[Nachie]

wipe my ass after taking a shit

[Veg_Athei_Socialist]

Oh good I was concerned some people just sat in a windowless room all day and read free books online or from the public library while eating organic home grown food and making DIY clothing :P
That sounds sort of like me. I eat food by local small companies, am going to soon switch to buying only second hand or fair-trade clothing and buy my books from my local book-store(and I do read a lot). Switching to e-books would be convenient, and I would use my library's books but they don't really have a good selection. I am hopefully going to start some community/charity volunteering soon.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Doing something you enjoy doesn't make you bourgeois. Owning the means of production does.

Capitalism restricts the time and opportunities workers have to do things they enjoy. The workers revolution doesn't aim to "socialize" that. It aims to bring an end to it.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

I occasionally go rhinoceros poaching with my pack of hunting dogs, bred and trained by Scotland Yard.

[dearest chuck]

i own a sweatshop in the philippines that makes budget sportswear.

[Blackscare]

This thread and the post by vegan something or other a few up, sound like lifestylism to me, which is a totally ineffectual way of "struggle" to change things. It's more about making oneself feel better for living in a capitalist world, and it's typical of the super narcissistic individualism that pervades today's society. When you think about it, its no wonder that this attitude of individual self-fulfillment is cultivated by capitalist culture, because it causes people to make useless token efforts to appear "socially aware" and breeds apathy towards genuine social struggle on a mass scale. Just look at all the pages that you find on the internet with cute little tips for "going green" in your household, when the vast majority of pollution etc is on the industrial level. Makes people feel good.

I am not against consumer goods, I may find consumerism to be a mindset encouraged to make people blindly buy things they don't need, but I stop at not being taken in by catchy ad campaigns. Nothing is inherently bourgeois except the extraction of surplus value from workers, and I'm not opposed to anything simply because only the rich have access to it today.

No offense to the OP, I know that you didn't mean mostly what I was talking about. This was more directed at the other guy a few above me. Might as well just call yourself a liberal. Someone in another thread had an interesting quote: "For every one hacking at the roots of the problem, there are a thousand more hacking at the branches", to paraphrase. Don't hack at the branches.

[#FF0000]

i break hearts and make millions

[The Ben G]

Buy stuff and have an ipod.

[Veg_Athei_Socialist]

This thread and the post by vegan something or other a few up, sound like lifestylism to me, which is a totally ineffectual way of "struggle" to change things. It's more about making oneself feel better for living in a capitalist world, and it's typical of the super narcissistic individualism that pervades today's society. When you think about it, its no wonder that this attitude of individual self-fulfillment is cultivated by capitalist culture, because it causes people to make useless token efforts to appear "socially aware" and breeds apathy towards genuine social struggle on a mass scale. Just look at all the pages that you find on the internet with cute little tips for "going green" in your household, when the vast majority of pollution etc is on the industrial level. Makes people feel good.

I am not against consumer goods, I may find consumerism to be a mindset encouraged to make people blindly buy things they don't need, but I stop at not being taken in by catchy ad campaigns. Nothing is inherently bourgeois except the extraction of surplus value from workers, and I'm not opposed to anything simply because only the rich have access to it today.

No offense to the OP, I know that you didn't mean mostly what I was talking about. This was more directed at the other guy a few above me. Might as well just call yourself a liberal. Someone in another thread had an interesting quote: "For every one hacking at the roots of the problem, there are a thousand more hacking at the branches", to paraphrase. Don't hack at the branches.
Really? You think I only do this just to feel good? I agree that capitalism is shit and should be done away with, but I don't see that happening any time soon. So, you might as well try your best to help those who need it. I do what I do to help others, not make myself feel good. Knowing I can make an impact in other peoples lives can make me feel better, but it's not an ultimate bringer of happiness. If everybody does there part to help others who need it then significant change can be made.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, i did post this in learning so...

And I am trying to make myself critically aware of problems with the system we live in as opposed to becoming a reformist or a reactionary :)

[Ravachol]

That sounds sort of like me. I eat food by local small companies, am going to soon switch to buying only second hand or fair-trade clothing and buy my books from my local book-store(and I do read a lot). Switching to e-books would be convenient, and I would use my library's books but they don't really have a good selection. I am hopefully going to start some community/charity volunteering soon.

While I admire your intentions, you ought to realise local 'small' companies are no different from foreign 'big' companies. Capital is capital and as long as there exists a wage relation, there exists exploitation. Whether the company is big or small is completely irrelevant.

The same goes for 'fair' trade. Higher wages (or in case of small farmers, higher prices for the food they produce) are just longer chains but chains nontheless. We ought to argue in favor of abolishing the wage relation. And if we are going to fight for improvements, this has to be a bottom-up fight originating with the demands of the workers themselves, in the sphere of production, not as a 'gracious gift' coming from consumers. This merely reproduces the liberal notion of the 'consumer as a sovereign'.

I say this not to randomly criticise but because a lot of very well-meaning people are tricked by the scam that is 'fair'/'green' capitalism. The problem is the substance (capitalism) not the form (fair/green/laissez-faire/etc).

[Veg_Athei_Socialist]

Well, i did post this in learning so...

And I am trying to make myself critically aware of problems with the system we live in as opposed to becoming a reformist or a reactionary :)
Are you saying I'm a reformist? I don't believe reforming will get us anywhere close to communism. A revolution needs to occur to get there, just until that revolution happens, any step we can take in the right direction is a good one.


While I admire your intentions, you ought to realise local 'small' companies are no different from foreign 'big' companies. Capital is capital and as long as there exists a wage relation, there exists exploitation. Whether the company is big or small is completely irrelevant.

The same goes for 'fair' trade. Higher wages (or in case of small farmers, higher prices for the food they produce) are just longer chains but chains nontheless. We ought to argue in favor of abolishing the wage relation. And if we are going to fight for improvements, this has to be a bottom-up fight originating with the demands of the workers themselves, in the sphere of production, not as a 'gracious gift' coming from consumers. This merely reproduces the liberal notion of the 'consumer as a sovereign'.

I say this not to randomly criticise but because a lot of very well-meaning people are tricked by the scam that is 'fair'/'green' capitalism. The problem is the substance (capitalism) not the form (fair/green/laissez-faire/etc).
Yes I agree that there should be no wages/capital. But right now we are stuck in a system that uses capital, so what as citizens can we actually do right now if anything?

[Sir Comradical]

I own a sweatshop in Indonesia, I know I know, it's so totally bourgeois. My comrades always make fun of me for it, but it doesn't really bother me.

[Stephen Colbert]

Are you saying I'm a reformist? I don't believe reforming will get us anywhere close to communism. A revolution needs to occur to get there, just until that revolution happens, any step we can take in the right direction is a good one.


no.

[thatwhichisnt]

Anyone who makes their living exploiting others. I do not mind people who have attained wealth through means of personal hard work.

[Invincible Summer]

- Going to university and majoring in sociology, but considering doing something else even though I'm supposed to graduate next year.

- Road cycling

- Eating expensive food

[thatwhichisnt]

- Going to university and majoring in sociology, but considering doing something else even though I'm supposed to graduate next year.

- Road cycling

- Eating expensive food
So I occasionally like to take my girlfriend to a nice restaurant, so that makes me bourgeois?

[Blackscare]

So I occasionally like to take my girlfriend to a nice restaurant, so that makes me bourgeois?

No, it makes you a chauvinist pig who's head should be put on a stake.


But srsly, guys stop feeling bad for spending a little money. Not the same thing as exploitation.

[TheSamsquatch]

I wouldn't exactly consider it "bourgeois", but instead of material furniture, i find it's much easier to employ those who are less fortunate.

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/object2/575/35/n182402692501_6397.jpg

[stella2010]

Cooking Pancakes and Borsch soup.

Then eating ice cream after.

Finally listening to French cirque de solais soundtrack whilst in the bath and candles lit.

[Uppercut]

taking dumps on playgrounds.:thumbup1:

[M-26-7]

I golf a lot and the other day it dawned on me that really golf is one of if not the most elitist and bourgeois sport I can do in my spare time. I was wondering if any comrades still partake in sports, activities etc that are not in anyway representative and indicative of the working class struggle.

And let me know how you feel about not being completely proletarian :P

I just played golf this weekend. I play on $10 public courses though, with secondhand and borrowed golf clubs. Most high schools around where I live have golf teams. There's not really anything too elitist about it anymore. Anyway, when you do see a gaggle of the idiots in pink polo shirts and tan khakis, it's fun to notice that they're getting pissed off by your very presence there. That or they just ignore you. I say, chase them all off the public courses, and onto the country club courses where they belong. :)

[Invincible Summer]

So I occasionally like to take my girlfriend to a nice restaurant, so that makes me bourgeois?

This whole thread is pretty tongue-in-cheek and clearly not using a "properly Marxist" definition of "bourgeois" so I wouldn't take it to heart.

[Luisrah]

I'm going to buy a 800€ high end computer so that I can play awesome games at max specs.
I play a 357€ classical guitar. (Though I dream of buying a 3000€ one)

Though my parents still work on a salary and own no means of production, so I'm not a bourgeois' son.

[AK]

According to MTWists, I'm Bourgeois because I have running water, sanitation, food on the plate and a roof over my head.

[Fietsketting]

Hmm I have a pretty big flatscreen in my livingroom, could have been a bit smaller but the playstation games just look good that big. :blushing: