Propaganda in School

[Adil3tr]

I had to sit and listen to absolute crap in class when we were "learning" about the Bolsheviks. They told us Lenin was mailed by the Kaiser personally. They told the provisional government was a perfect democracy. They told us the white army was fighting for freedom. They told us that Trotsky was the exact same as Stalin. They told us that Lenin didn;t believe in communism, he retreated to socialism, which, according to the teacher, was a system of capitalism with a few minor changes. Stalin, they said, was an communist, and carried through the communist plan of marx, resulting in all his crimes. WTF! Nothing about white army muders, nothing about the white army killing jews or being fascists. Nothing about the stark diferences between Trotsky and Stalin.
Total propaganda, Total crap.

[The Ben G]

This crap has been going on for way too long. Did you correct your Teacher?

[Broletariat]

Shoot I hope my teacher does this shit, I've always reamed my History teachers whenever they report something inaccurately. It's an excellent lead in for the whole "what do they have to hide from us?" line of talking which naturally is a perfect lead in for me to discuss politics with other students at lunch or some other place.

[Adil3tr]

Only to my fellow students, I was laughing in my seat but I live in a wealthy area, and I don't think it would be smart to argue Bolshevism with my teacher. I probably should have though.

[DaComm]

I had to sit and listen to absolute crap in class when we were "learning" about the Bolsheviks. They told us Lenin was mailed by the Kaiser personally. They told the provisional government was a perfect democracy. They told us the white army was fighting for freedom. They told us that Trotsky was the exact same as Stalin. They told us that Lenin didn;t believe in communism, he retreated to socialism, which, according to the teacher, was a system of capitalism with a few minor changes. Stalin, they said, was an communist, and carried through the communist plan of marx, resulting in all his crimes. WTF! Nothing about white army muders, nothing about the white army killing jews or being fascists. Nothing about the stark diferences between Trotsky and Stalin.
Total propaganda, Total crap.


I hear you. I conjecture by the fact that your learning about Trotsky that you are in a higher grade than me, but I still feel this idiocy radiating from people like your teacher. My teacher tells us about how the US is democratic, acts in the interest of those who "work hard enough to make it to the top" (whatever that means), and only makes any foreign moves if it is for humanitarian purposes. I felt like smashing a brick atop his head, but I found a more effective way of dealing with it. Fight fire with fire. My teacher seemed to rally a heavy nationalist faction in my class, using utter nonsense as the driving force, so I figured I could raise a very healthy rationalist faction using arguments that made sense. Sure enough, after talking to a lot of fellow student-mates individually to make sure they comprehended what I told them (I certainly did not go into Marxism, but hey, one step at a time), and before you know it I have 7-10 kids on my side that are pro-Secularist, very much opposed to US foreign policy, and scoff at the idea that the US is democracy. Try this, it worked for me; although I'd say none of them are anywhere near Communist, they are much further away from the right.

[bailey_187]

wtf lol. your teacher sounds like they know absolutly nothing. I mean, Richard Pipes etc give a more accurate account of the revolution.

[ed miliband]

It's something you have to (sadly) get used to, but I know just how frustrating it can be.

One of my teachers was talking about the Cold War and I corrected her a number of times, particularly on her usage of 'communist'. I went about it in a polite way, and she responded that she knew what she was saying was arguably incorrect, but for the purpose of teaching things issues have to be brushed over, and simplistic routes have to be taken. She said that it was especially true in the lower years of education: lies will be taught because they are easier for kids to digest (... apparently).

I thought I had one her over, but the next week she was talking about communism is this ideology that is murderous at it's core, pointing to Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge as examples of communism. At that point I gave up.

[Uppercut]

One of my history teachers had us read "The Road to Serfdom". Good god...

[Burn A Flag]

This propoganda is the reason it's so hard to win people to our cause. This propoganda needs to be fought as much as possible. It only hurts our cause when people think "true communism" is exemplified by Stalin and Pol Pot. I mean, who can blame people for rejecting an ideology they associate with mass murder? The only problem is that communism has nothing to do with mass murder. The real mass murder is the systemic violence associated with capitalism.

[ed miliband]

What always makes me laugh is how absurdly it's presented, as if Stalin and Pol Pot went around eating babies for dinner because that's exactly what communism is about. Any violence committed by a communist is treated as being inextricably connected to communism as an ideology, as if the act cannot be seperated from the belief. The opposite is true for capitalism.

[ComradeOm]

Swallow it. You don't get marks for dissent in school and you're not on a crusade to convert people. If you're interested in what actually happened then do some reading in your own time. Ditto with 'spreading the word'

[Sir Comradical]

I made a teacher look like an idiot once, we were discussing the invasion of Iraq back in year 9. Good fun.

[Jolly Red Giant]

One of my teachers was talking about the Cold War and I corrected her a number of times, particularly on her usage of 'communist'. I went about it in a polite way, and she responded that she knew what she was saying was arguably incorrect, but for the purpose of teaching things issues have to be brushed over, and simplistic routes have to be taken. She said that it was especially true in the lower years of education: lies will be taught because they are easier for kids to digest (... apparently).
Unlike eveyone else who has posted here - I am not a student but I am a history teacher. Everyday I teach historical information that I do not agree with. Unfortunately that is my job. The history course is taught based on a syllabus. I have no control over the syllabus. If I do not teach the syllabus then I do not teach. I encourage my students to question everything. I repeated indicate examples of bias, propaganda etc during the course. However, at the end of the day my job is to ensure that the students in my class pass their exams. Do I like it - no. But I do like my job and I will continue to do it as best I can.

Most history teachers are well educated and open-minded. Generally during undergraduate and post graduate study history students learn to look at historical subjects with a critical mind. It is good that left-wing students are willing and able to challange the propaganda in school history courses, but I would suggest that where a history teacher who is willing to engage in constructive discussion that you do not approach it in a confrontational manner but in a manner that would assist in educating your fellow students. However, remember at the end of the day that a history teacher has a job to do and you will p*ss off your teacher and your fellow students if you repeatedly disrupt your class by challanging stuff on your history course. You will have more impact on fellow students with a constructive rather than confrontational approach and by picking the issues you raise. If you have a right-wing hack as a history teacher then feel free to have a go at them.

[CleverTitle]

I recall having arguments regarding the USSR with my social studies teacher as far back as 7th grade. He wasn't a complete idiot though, by the end of that year he was reading through some works by Marx. It's too bad that folks like him are so rare.

[Phillip]

The problem about American schools today is that they
A:Force feed pro-American propaganda
B:Demand that we dislike anywhere but America
C:Force feed anti-Communist/Socialist views to us

A personal story, Once my history teacher was out for the day, so we had our music teachers husband as a substitute, he is from The UK. I questioned him about Europes views on America as a country, and his personal views about America. He responded "Europe has a hatred for America, not a 'destroy' hatred, a 'get away from us' hatred. And undoutably the rest of the world shares this. However I must say, America has been the most anti-foreigner, anti-communist, and anti-freedom country that I have ever seen. And I strongly regret you have to live here to." He was later fired, along with the actual history teacher.

[Klaatu]

What cracks me up is the claim "Communists commit murder..."

As if capitalists, fascists, and religionists have not ever committed murder... :crying:

[Klaatu]

If you have a right-wing hack as a history teacher then feel free to have a go at them.

That really is the problem, history is taught in this country with a certain bias. In America, it is a capitalistic and a religionist bias (although not
in public schools, thank the gods...) In some countries, the Holocaust is denied. In some countries, religion is the focus (bias, actually)

We need to adhere to the U.S. First Amendment, and teach the truth, however it hurts religion, capitalism, or whatever-ism.

[Jolly Red Giant]

That really is the problem, history is taught in this country with a certain bias.
But what must be realised is that all history is biased - the history taught in every school is biased and the history written in every history book (textbook, academic book, even the local history society yearbook) is biased - it cannot be anything but.

[RedRise]

At my school if you mention communism, socialism, Marx, Lenin or anything else along that line you've barely got the end of the sentence out of your mouth before everyone choruses, 'Communism/Socialism works in theory - but only in theory.' Or something along those lines.
And its really annoying because as soon as you start to argue your point they put their hands up as much to say 'don't blame me for world poverty':rolleyes: and say 'No, no, I agree with everything your saying about how exploiting people is wrong, rah blah...but communsim will never work because its against people's nature.
This infuriates me because they're actually posing an argument against you but they're pretending to be innocently stating the facts. It sucks because you can't fight it.:mad:

[Jazzhands]

At my school if you mention communism, socialism, Marx, Lenin or anything else along that line you've barely got the end of the sentence out of your mouth before everyone choruses, 'Communism/Socialism works in theory - but only in theory.' Or something along those lines.
And its really annoying because as soon as you start to argue your point they put their hands up as much to say 'don't blame me for world poverty':rolleyes: and say 'No, no, I agree with everything your saying about how exploiting people is wrong, rah blah...but communsim will never work because its against people's nature.
This infuriates me because they're actually posing an argument against you but they're pretending to be innocently stating the facts. It sucks because you can't fight it.:mad:

Human nature is a purely philosophical question, not a hard fact. One that happens to be complete bull. Make sure they know that. What we're trying to do is to change humanity, not conform to some concept of what humans are supposed to be like. Even assuming that human nature is to work for one's self-interest, the proletarian struggles under capitalism every day of his life to work for a boss who steals his product and sells it back to him. That is against the worker's self-interest. If you run into a human nature argument, convince the opponent that communism is in humanity's self-interest more so than capitalism because it means that a person's labor is no longer sucked from him by a parasitic capitalist.

[Klaatu]

But what must be realised is that all history is biased - the history taught in every school is biased and the history written in every history book (textbook, academic book, even the local history society yearbook) is biased - it cannot be anything but.

A great example of this bias, and how it is slowly being debunked...

We have been inundated with stories, movies, etc of "those savage indians..." in the 19th century American West.

Just watched this movie: "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee" (2007) for a different point of view.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bury_My_Heart_at_Wounded_Knee

Another movie which depicts life from a native perspective: Dances With Wolves (1990) (although fiction, it is a great story)

[redSHARP]

i agree with the history teacher a few posts back, the teacher most likely knows better than the crap in the text book.

in high school i would just ask questions in a curious manner and slowly bring things up. i was never confrontational and i would usually back it up with some shit from the History Channel (ex: i was watching the history channel a while back and this show said that the US committed war crimes in Vietnam), which back a few years ago, was not overtly right wing and targeted towards jack asses.