Politics vs emigration

[DecDoom]

I need some advice...

In the future (after college) I'd like to emigrate from the US. Here's the problem: revolutionary politics are a major part of my interests. If I were to emigrate, however, I'd most likely have to shelve them until I'm able to naturalize. On the other hand, if I stay in the US, I can keep up my revolutionary politics, since I don't think the government can deport me or anything.

What would everyone else do? Would you stay in the US (or wherever you are) and stay revolutionary? Or would you leave and stay incognito for a long period of time?

Thanks for any answers. :)

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Capitalist governments makes it almost impossible to emigrate without getting someone in another country to hire you. There's a metaphorical Berlin Wall to cross to emigrate.

[DecDoom]

I did know that, and I'd be emigrating with the full intent of working there. I realize the difficulty of getting someone in another country to hire you (why hire a foreigner when there are plenty of people in the country already), but it's something I'd try anyhow.

I'd love to meet a person in the US that says "If you don't love it, leave it" so I could tell them how difficult it actually is to leave.

[F9]

Think first whats better for you and your surviving(and your family if you are taking care of one) and then if you are going to keep your politics known, or hide them.I dont think you should base your choice of place, on how you will keep your politics.I know that wouldnt be on the top of my list.

Fuserg9:star:

[Lenina Rosenweg]

It might depend on what country you want to emigrate to (you don't have to divulge this). Where ever you go to, think long and hard before giving up US citizenship. The USA sucks in so many ways its almost beyond belief, but the US passport confers privileges and makes it easy to get in and out of countries. If you do have a political commitment you need every advantage you can get.

Depending on what your approach is and where you are at, there's a lot you can do w/out being a "citizen" of a country. Most of the great revolutionaries were highly international.

Class struggle is at a low level in the US right now but things are bound to heat up within the next few years. If you feel happier and think you can make a contribution in another country, go for it, but don't burn any bridges.

[StoneFrog]

I know a bit what you mean, i have never really belonged to one country and have lived in many countries. I live in Canada as a non citizen, i think if i wish to stay here i will have to become a citizen. To do that you gotta pledge yourself to the country and such.... well i'd much rather bring the country down than pledge my self to it. But i am sure they can't deport you on political grounds, but of course they may find away around it.

Lets put it like this, if you get deported from which ever country you wish to live in only gives you more ammunition to fight them with. What ever you do don't hide your views, doing that will cause you more harm than anything else. I do recommend living in different countries, it helps give you a totally different outlook on things. Maybe try and find out some of the laws in that country about emigration and such. Best to equip yourself and be prepared to fight if they choose to deport you for your political beliefs.

[The Fighting_Crusnik]

Tbh, I'd love to emigrate to Japan, Germany or Sweden simply because I find their cultures interesting and because Computer Science (which is what I'll be going for college for :p) is pretty big in those lands. However, from what I'm beginning to discover, Germany and Sweden are having skinhead problems at the moment and Japan in some of the metro areas has allowed capitalism to turn people into workaholics who are forced, in some cases, to be seperated from their wives and children... though, from what I've read, this problem seems to be coming to an end :)

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Tbh, I'd love to emigrate to Japan, Germany or Sweden simply because I find their cultures interesting and because Computer Science (which is what I'll be going for college for :p) is pretty big in those lands. However, from what I'm beginning to discover, Germany and Sweden are having skinhead problems at the moment and Japan in some of the metro areas has allowed capitalism to turn people into workaholics who are forced, in some cases, to be seperated from their wives and children... though, from what I've read, this problem seems to be coming to an end :)

Skinhead problems? Not any more than usual, there's quite a lot of such movements in the U.S. and all for what its worth-- It's actually been a bit quieter on that front as compared to the 1990's because they're all busy with sectarian infighting (seems it's not just us leftists that do it). Your reflections on Japan seem a bit out of date, that's pretty much been the case since the 1950's, the only change is that corporations have realised they can profit a lot more if they skip the traditional semi-fascist corporatist model.

Getting out of the U.S. sure is a horror though, I've been trying to get my boyfriend out of the U.S. for well over a year and the utter maze of bureaucratic nonsense and regulation and requirements which include him having to travel all the way to a god damn consulate hundreds of miles away for an interview and all sorts of documents, birth-certificates and what not, and then a processing time of "approximately six months". It's fucking impossible to get out, it's like a prison.

[Bitter Ashes]

Uk's supposed to be difficult. They're really cracking down on non-EU migrants and it's in the constitution that the border agency can deport political dissidents.

[Blackscare]

I'm planning to move to somewhere in south america by this time next year with a friend of mine, both of us are leftists and intend to take the opportunity to write together on various subjects including the political situation there. We're thinking Venezuala at the moment but it's a way off, right now we're just both working and saving the funds necessary to lead a somewhat nomadic existence for a few years in relative comfort.

I doubt that I could be of much use to local revolutionaries etc, but I would like to be an observer and report in on what I see.

I understand where you're coming from, I've been wrestling with the idea of leaving my home country where I could be doing real political work in order to go somewhere with a bit more of a "glamorous" revolutionary movement and merely report on it. Still I think that there can be benefits, and I really am dismayed at the state of the Left here and I doubt it's going to be putting up much resistance in the next few years regardless of if I'm there or not.

Still, I struggle with what is better to do.

[Q]

Migration for someone from the US is very easy, given the dominant position of the US in the world, so it shouldn't be too difficult.

That said, I'd argue to stay where you are. The US, despite its third world ranking shit in many areas, is still one of the best places to live and take care for yourself and you family. I resonate Fuserg9 here.

If you do choose to migrate, better not be politically active until you're clear.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Migration for someone from the US is very easy, given the dominant position of the US in the world, so it shouldn't be too difficult.

That said, I'd argue to stay where you are. The US, despite its third world ranking shit in many areas, is still one of the best places to live and take care for yourself and you family. I resonate Fuserg9 here.

I disagree that the U.S. is a good place to live as such; this really depends on your personal situation, what kind of a social network you have and how able you are to handle it. If one has a lot of friends and a network of good connections and is doing relatively well in all regards, it would obviously be foolish to leave such simply for the sake of it, but if one does not-

It's really not that easy to emigrate, even with the U.S's dominant position in the world; there are bureaucratic regulations and other absurd things, the purpose of which is to discourage and make difficult all manner of emigration;

Another issue is that the E.U. has something of the most stringent and abysmally bad immigration legislation and regulation, I don't want to be too cliché and call everything fascist, but EU immigration is somewhere along those lines by all accounts.

[LC89]

Migration for someone from the US is very easy, given the dominant position of the US in the world, so it shouldn't be too difficult.

That said, I'd argue to stay where you are. The US, despite its third world ranking shit in many areas, is still one of the best places to live and take care for yourself and you family. I resonate Fuserg9 here.

If you do choose to migrate, better not be politically active until you're clear.
But I think U.S is quit hard not to make a living with big corp... My family tried to start business previously... But with all those regulation licenses, and fee pretty much made us give it up.

[MarxSchmarx]

From personal experience, throughout the global north the situation isn't really that much different from country to country and leaving the US for another first world country won't provide many advantages.

However the rules on political activism vary from place to place. Some places generally don't care about your politics (like Israel, IF you are a Jew), other places the immigration officer does a full investigation of all your life's activities and interviews your neighbors and coworkers (Japan), and most places are somewhat in between. Wherever you are you should be extra judicious and if you are aiming for eventual citizenship the wisest thing to do is to abandon being an activist until after you get citizenship or at least permanent residency.

If you are thinking of going to a less developed country, it will be all that you could do to make a living as a foreign worker unless you come employed with an organization from the developed world, are independently financed, or already have pretty strong ties to the place like many relatives. In any event they are unlikely to naturalize you unless you get married to someone there, and even then only after probably a decade or more of living there. And being an activist would really be out of the question, unless you're working for Chavistas in Venezuela or something. Actually having local citizenship won't help you from being deported back to the US. Even after becoming naturalized in most LDCs they can revoke your citizenship retroactively and kick you out.



Another issue is that the E.U. has something of the most stringent and abysmally bad immigration legislation and regulation, I don't want to be too cliché and call everything fascist, but EU immigration is somewhere along those lines by all accounts.

As terrible as the EU is, it is about as bad as anywhere else - in parts of Latin America for example many companies have to hire 10 local workers for every foreign worker they employ. And although the situation on the ground is a little looser in America, the regulations regarding immigration on the books are just as onerous.

[danyboy27]

try to get your canadian citizenship and migrate to canada.

at least we got national healthcare.