The situation is getting dire [Archive]

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durhamleft

3rd July 2010, 19:17

http://s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/topic/3541077/1/#new

With fash turning up at our meetings it will not be long before they try and drive us underground.

We need to fight back.

LebenIstKrieg

3rd July 2010, 19:46

durhamleft

3rd July 2010, 19:52

Interesting the whole story telling that went with the whole casual scene has been passed into politics. If you've ever read any books on Ultras and Hooligans this sort of thing is prevalent throughout the culture.

I've noticed that. I go to football games myself and it's incredibly how similar it is; "Phwoar we had two thousand fuckers in Newcastle and they only had 900" "The EDL lads are brave patriot lads while they're hippie cowards". It's so similar to the 'Our firm is bigger than yours' bollocks you get at the football games.

People seem to not be comprehending how dangerous the situation we're in is. They now have thousand of thugs who hate Islam and lefties. They have attacked George Galloway speaking and are now turning up at our meets. How long will it be before they are attacking leftists?!

I cannot stress how important it is to have some sort of unity amongst ourselves because it's getting dangerous. Watch this space- these posts will be on the EDL forum in a few hours- remember to keep any ideas restricted to PMs.

No pasarán

3rd July 2010, 19:52

durhamleft

3rd July 2010, 19:56

I haven't spoken to any of the yorkshire lads and lasses I know, but it would be interesting to see an account from some of them... to see what really happened. EDL seem to have a very good knack for story telling. Funny how they fail to mention when they get a kickin (such as in Reading or Bristol, etc).

Indeed. That's "casual culture" for you- it's all about telling everyone how hard you are and how big your dick is.

It's time to get organised!

revolution inaction

3rd July 2010, 20:48

I cannot stress how important it is to have some sort of unity amongst ourselves because it's getting dangerous. Watch this space- these posts will be on the EDL forum in a few hours- remember to keep any ideas restricted to PMs.

you shouldn't be planing stuff on a public forum however you do it.

durhamleft

3rd July 2010, 21:04

you shouldn't be planing stuff on a public forum however you do it.

Any proper organising is done by other mediums, but there's no harm in running through different ideas and rallying numbers on here I wouldn't have thought.

Adi Shankara

3rd July 2010, 22:43

This is a very dangerous thing; this must be brought to the attention of the right people. tell them any details you know. smash the fash.

1968

3rd July 2010, 23:54

I haven't spoken to any of the yorkshire lads and lasses I know, but it would be interesting to see an account from some of them... to see what really happened. EDL seem to have a very good knack for story telling. Funny how they fail to mention when they get a kickin (such as in Reading or Bristol, etc).

Indeed.

It be great for people within AFed or Antifa England to come out with their side of events asap.

durhamleft

4th July 2010, 00:12

http://s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/topic/3541077/1/#new

southwales

Totally owned, They believe a democratic debate is an attack.

Apparently it's democratic to turn up at people's private meetings and ram your views down their throats. tit.

The sad thing is at the moment unless we start mobilisation we can't defend ourselves.

durhamleft

4th July 2010, 00:29

Road_Runner

4th July 2010, 00:56

Also it's interesting there's 11 guests viewing this. All you EDL titheads.

How about you fuck off back to your forum. If you want to debate something then sign up and message me but ogling at this isn't going to do much for you.

If you restrict conversation to PMs then you'll have no bother.

Alright bollock chops, I'm here and signed in. Are your lot up for discussion or are they just going to delete my profile? If I'm deleted then don't complain about the lack of discussion. Meep, meep.

durhamleft

4th July 2010, 00:58

We'll talk by PM and if you want to copy them onto the edl site you can do. ok?

Road_Runner

4th July 2010, 01:03

We'll talk by PM and if you want to copy them onto the edl site you can do. ok?

No, I don't want to talk by PM, if the revleft admin don't allow free speech then fine. Come talk on the EDL forum where we do allow free speech. Meep, meep.

durhamleft

4th July 2010, 01:09

No, I don't want to talk by PM, if the revleft admin don't allow free speech then fine. Come talk on the EDL forum where we do allow free speech. Meep, meep.

What is it? You said on the EDL you wanted me to PM you then say you want it on here? Free speech is allowed but not if you talk bollocks which I forsee this conversation developing too, and I have about 6 EDL accounts, but i don't want to give my IP away as who I am.

Right I prepared PM to send you then thought it would be a bad idea to do so. Here it is:

Let me express my views to you on the EDL, I do not think you are 'fascist', or 'nazi', and the reality of the situation is many of your members aren't racist, quite a few are, but clearly not all of them. Unite against fascism are your best friends in reality- who takes seriously a group who shout Nazi scum at blacks, Jews and homosexuals?

My issue with the English Defence League are two fold. The first is that I fear it has the capacity to take nationalism and use it to whip up fear (much like UAF do may I add). What I mean by this is you started as anti-extremist Islam, yet it appears to me like your path has changed to being more anti-'Islamification' hence the 'no more mosques' etc. posters. That I disagree with, and I just worry it won't be long before your members start attacking mosques or such things, as it appears to me like your group has harnessed a real militant hatred to Islam, that is irrational and growing. Also I would add, I am as anti-extremist Islam as you are, and to me Unite against fascism are in bed with some of the Islamic groups and that is only a bad thing.

My other objection to the EDL is that I feel they divide communities. We've seen poor lads get stabbed by some Asian lads because they were EDL, and I'd be amazed if there haven't been attacks from EDL the other way round (just look at the thugs running at the Dudley demo who smashed down the fences and looked for a confrontation). I fear that Bradford may cause a race riot, and the bigger picture is that people will get killed because of these escalating racial tensions, and you can say what you wish about being none racist, whether the EDL are or are not is irrelevant, the strong anti-islamic message you give out is isolating a community in the UK.

The sad thing about this whole situation we live in is that I can't help but to feel the government have caused a lot of these tensions. Detaining people for 40 days with no charges, wars in Arab countries, stop and searching using terror laws, saying you can't film police in case it aids terrorism blah blah blah- no wonder people are so scared.

I hope you appreciate that myself and the people I act with are not rampant UAF hippies, but we are interested in keeping communities together, which we fear are being challenged by the EDL and by extreme Islam. We do intend on developing a more militant force, but you can be rest assured that we are not so stupid that we would attack an EDL march, as we know a large number of people in them are the disenfranchised working class. We want to be in cities where the EDL march to talk to locals, and help them feel less racially hostile. We would only ever become militant in the violent sense of the word if people start to attack others (like has been seen in Luton).

Road_Runner

4th July 2010, 01:25

What is it? You said on the EDL you wanted me to PM you then say you want it on here? You may be getting me confused with someone else on the EDL forum, I didn't ask you to communicate by PM. I'll go into detail more about your post tomorrow (it's getting late for me). But do you understand Islam, have you read the Qur'an, do you realise that Islam is a total belief system, not a religion and do you see the problems in other European countries where the Muslim population is higher than it is here?

durhamleft

4th July 2010, 01:31

Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk

4th July 2010, 01:44

durhamleft

4th July 2010, 01:57

What's the point in bringing the fascist scum here?

No one gives a fuck about the Qur'an you idiot, its the least of our worries (I don't necessarily agree with Islam, or any religion, but its at the bottom of our list of problems). The sooner you knuckle-headed bigots get that out your heads, the better.

You can dress it however you want, but all you EDL people are is a bunch of xenophobic hooligans, looking for a fight and taking it out on Islam. Islam is just another religion, they're all as bad as each other when an extremist context is established, but dividing society due to your uneasy feelings towards Muslims? You lot are scum!

You're just as bad as the Islamic fundamentalists, or the right-wing Christian nutters; I'd rather swap the EDL for an equal amount of Muslim workers any day.
http://whitechapelanarchistgroup.wordpress.com/ I think there's a lot of sense there about the EDL.

There are some of them who are fascists who it would be nice to remove from society quite frankly, but there are also people in them who are scared and fearful, have been made unemployed etc. and feel they have nowhere to turn to so blame Islam.

Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk

4th July 2010, 02:06

That is true and I appreciate it, but debating with them is useless here. This is no different from them infiltrating anti-fascist meetings!

The chances are in heavy favour that this guy isn't simply a disillusioned worker, but a serious EDL member (if there is such a thing) who wishes to preach his hate. Even on revleft of all places!

The situation is getting dire; it is time to oppose the EDL by all means necessary, even on the internet.

Sam_b

4th July 2010, 16:20

I'll bite.

Apparently it's democratic to turn up at people's private meetings and ram your views down their throats. tit.

It was a public meeting. The example you put above if not about the EDL would be the definition of democratic.

Also it's interesting there's 11 guests viewing this. All you EDL titheads.

How about you fuck off back to your forum. If you want to debate something then sign up and message me but ogling at this isn't going to do much for you.

If you restrict conversation to PMs then you'll have no bother.

How about you start sending more PMs instead of constantly attention seeking for your super-secret grand plan of yet another so-called "militant anti-fascist" collective/organisation/group/batallion/lynchmob which "has to be done by PM guys!" yet you seemingly mention at every given opportunity?

As far as i'm concerned, all you're doing is attracting yet more opposition forces to this site. I wish you wouldn't.

LebenIstKrieg

4th July 2010, 17:25

oh, wait wasn't it the SWP that tried to discredit "ANTIFASCIST ACTION"...oh yeah I think it was.

Sam_b

4th July 2010, 19:03

No pasarán

4th July 2010, 20:45

Good.

Whats your point? That is, if you do aside from the obvious point of the SWP disagreeing with the tactics of squadism.

Although 'the squads' were started out of the SWP to some extent, but I guess the party didn't wanna indulge that sort of millitancy once it started getting bad publicity?

Sorry thats an honest question, if you feel it went differently, give me your side?

Ravachol

4th July 2010, 21:16

oh, wait wasn't it the SWP that tried to discredit "ANTIFASCIST ACTION"...oh yeah I think it was.

Good.

Whats your point? That is, if you do aside from the obvious point of the SWP disagreeing with the tactics of squadism.

Pffft, keep the nonsensical infighting to a minimum please. Whilst I strongly disagree with the SWP's positions and tactics that's not the matter at hand here.

As far as the EDL is concerned, they're a joke, a bunch of casuals getting pissed waving the union jack and achieving fuck all. Eventually they'll get tired of what is essentially a game to most of these buffoons and the whole thing'll collapse. They have no means to consolidate any form of power and most certainly not anything radically different from or worse than capitalism as we know it.

The core problem here is the failure of the radical left so far to build a successfull counter-power on a class-basis. Only an initiative grounded in class-politics is capable of opposing reactionary movements like the EDL or far right Islamists like Choudry cum suis.

L'ANTIFASCISME C'EST BIEN, LA REVOLUTION C'EST MIEUX!!

Sam_b

4th July 2010, 22:16

I think you ask a air question, NP.

Although 'the squads' were started out of the SWP to some extent

I agree.

but I guess the party didn't wanna indulge that sort of millitancy once it started getting bad publicity?

I don't think it was about 'bad publicity' in the slightest, we all know that the SWP doesn't get particularly good publicity anyway ;). For me, 'militant anti-fascism' is often construed as simply physical confrontation. When talking aout 'smashing fascism' we should be meaning to smash the political organs of fascism and defending communities, getting physical where necessary; not the way that AFA have in the past which I personally believe does not have an adequate class basis and tantamounts to alienation of the class (case in point is the screwdriver attacks on a BPP meeting which was reported on this site). I believe the situation got out of hand within the SWP, I think we made some mistakes; but also those who went on to Red Action also did. Strategy and tactic is not something rigid, uniform and absolute - situations change and we learn from our experiences.

Sam_b

5th July 2010, 10:51

I did mean 'fair' question...some of you may have noticed I often have a problem with the 'f' key on my keyboard.

Bitter Ashes

5th July 2010, 12:47

nuisance

5th July 2010, 15:46

You live and you learn. Main lesson to learn is not to do meetings that are likely to be targetted by potentially dangerous football hooligans and ultra-nationalists, unless you're confident about your abilities.

We can sit here all day condemning and sniping at each other. Lets just let the Leeds lot learn from this and for everyone else to just heed it as a warning of what not to do. LIVE AND LEARN!

Bullshit. You don't have to experience it before figuring out that the EDL are likely to gatecrash your meeting that is organising against them- especially when groups have had meetings targeted already. This meeting also spoke of militancy and the, now taken down statement from the Antifascist Coalition, said that the EDL with not 'be tolerated on the streets' anymore, wtf? So they will not be tolerated on the streets but they will be tolerated in a meeting that was supposed to be composed of people wanting to militantly combat them. Why weren't they even calmly ushered out, it's not like there was many- 20-4.

The attendees where fucking lucky that the EDL didn't pop round mob handed and turned them over. How can people organise against people known to use violence if they do not even try to provide a safespace for a public meeting.

It's also ridiculous why this is being repeatably wiped from Indymedia aswell.

The real question that needs to be answered is what were the organisers thinking? I also wonder if any coppers were in attendance.

exafa

5th July 2010, 22:09

agree with the above , letting the edl into a meeting supposedly to discuss how you're going to smash them is pathetic.......a victory aginst one of us is a victory against us all..The EDL are laughing there fat arses off about this ,sort your selves out Leeds AFED , you've made us look like right royal mugs

No pasarán

6th July 2010, 11:46

Not to slate the well meaning Yorkshire 'commrades' (uggh I hate using that word... but I am using it out of respect here) but it does amazes me that security had not been better thought out? Maybe consult some people about stewarding for future meetings?

Luther Blissett

6th July 2010, 15:37

You may be getting me confused with someone else on the EDL forum, I didn't ask you to communicate by PM. I'll go into detail more about your post tomorrow (it's getting late for me). But do you understand Islam, have you read the Qur'an, do you realise that Islam is a total belief system, not a religion and do you see the problems in other European countries where the Muslim population is higher than it is here?
We've heard it all before - neonazis going on about Judaism in much the same way as your group EDL now go about demonising Islam.
Judaism is a total belief system. Christianity is a total belief system. So what if they are belief systems?

Your group EDL advocates a proto-fascist street-response against all Muslims in Britain. That's one of the issues. We'll come to the others later.

As for your Kahanist JDL USA friends whom EDL reached out to as early as September 2009, they are a proscribed terrorist group in both USA and Israel, so EDL's involvement with them leaves EDL wide open to just claims that EDL associates with a known terrorist group that has been proscribed in ISRAEL, rendering all EDL claims that EDL supports Israel invalid.

EDL now supports some real hardline religious wingnuts who support a single-state, continuation of settlement building and this is contradiction to the recent motion at the Zionist Congress, who voted for a two-state solution and a full settlement-building freeze.

SO much for being generally ZIONIST. The claim to be pro-Israel and pro-Zionist are false. The people you aligned with are against a two-state solution and pro-continued settlement expansion.

EDL willingly sought out and linked itself to hardline religious right-wing extremists. The same type of extremists that EDL leaders say they're against.
This renders the claim that EDL are against extremists invalid.

Other important issues beside the issue of EDL cosying up to rightwing religious extremists and a proscribed terrorist organisation are the blatent lie that EDL is a single-issue organisation.

It is most defnitely not a single-issue organisation, and we should discuss the EDL's claim to be a single-issue group as openly as possible, so that EDL members can read what we write.

Luther Blissett

6th July 2010, 19:01

Here are Charles Martel or Charles the Hammer's and Snowy Nesbit's reports:

Charles the Hammer
Jul 3 2010, 07:01 PM Post #1
britishulsteralliance .co .uk
Posts:2,306Group:Senior MembersMember#3,653Joined:Oct 4, 2009

Just back from challenging the 'Anti-fascist Action Coalition' meeting (already discussed on these forums)

I would like to put a brief account (full account will be posted latter) of the EDLs actions of the days events across before the reds/anarchists do so but with their usual lies.

Myself and 4 others including Snowy (agreed to me mentioning his name) went to the location of the meeting, pressed the buzzer on the door and let the caretaker of the building know we were there for the anti-EDL meeting (there was a hand written note on the door saying the meeting was there) we were let into the building and went upstairs to the meeting.

We were expecting a group of black-bloc hardcore militant street fighting anarchists but was met with the usual UAF type mongs apart from one individual (more about him in the full report)

Snowy started off by trying to blagg the cretins by saying we were anti-fascists from Wakefield, but it didn't take long for them to realises who we were due to our superior hygeine.

Snowy then tried to educate the wasters about the errors of their ways but it soon became a reality that the brave class warriors were not up for a discussion as a big lad (we believe he was from Norway) decided to stand up and try to walk out. Snowy and myself talked him round by saying we were there for a democratic debate and not for violence, but he seemed to think we were there for violence as he was shaking like a leaf.

It ended up with the reds/anarchists realising that we within the EDL will challenge them wherever they challenge us, anywhere, anytime and any place.

Sorry the report is so short but I will go more into what was said during the spat latter as I have to go out very soon, just wanted to get the our side of the story across before the reds/anarchist come out with "EDL rapist, jew, cat and hampster killers threaten little bo peep with candy floss and machine guns" type sh1te.

Charles the Hammer
Jul 4 2010, 09:32 AM Post #95
Posts:2,306Group:Senior MembersMember#3,653Joined:Oct 4, 2009

We got to Leeds just before 1pm to a pub not far from the antis meeting place, within minuets there seemed to be police all over the place with CCTV vans etc, not to sure if they were looking for EDL or not.

I think from now on pubs should not be used for meeting places as the OB know we always meet in pubs, but I'll leave talking tactics off a public forum. (Commies take note)

We then went to the antis meeting place pressed the buzzer and blagged our way in, why the caretaker let us in so easily I do not know. If it was an EDL meeting we would have told the CT to inform us of any guests so we could down to check them out etc, the lefties are about as professional as the Italian army.

All 5 of us went upstairs to the meeting and was met with the site of around 10 (maybe more) class warriors including a few girls, Snowy tried to blag that we were class warriors from Wakefield, but they knew who we were from the start. We then started to ask how they decided to stop us in Bradford, they didn't have much to say about that really so they started going on about how we should be protesting against the conservative goverment and their cuts, whilst failing to realise it was the Labour goverment who fcuked things up in the first place.

It was at this point that a big fcuker we believe from Norway decided to stand up and try and walk out the room until Snowy and myself talked him out of it, he was shaking like a leaf and I mean shaking. We told him to sit down as nothing was going to happen, that class warrior decided he'd had enough of coming face to face with the real working class.

It was at this point that one of our lads asked one of the class warriors (lad in black T-shirt) if he had a problem, but me and Snowy calmed the situation. The debate then went between Snowy and the alpha male of the class warriors group, this prick was about as working class as Boris Johnson but he did have the same accent as Boris, when we asked about his social background the old trot said he worked in the Sheffield steel industry and now works in the university sector.

Snowy told Mr university that his dad was a shop steward who had brought him up to vote and support labour to which Snowy did until the first iraq war as Snowy believed it to be an illegal war, cue silence from the class warriors.

Mr University then went on to say we have nazis and fascists amongst our ranks and we agreed we have a few, but Snowy also stated we are weeding them out and will continue to do so. (to the reds reading this We oppose all forms of extremism of any kind) I then said they have animal rights nutters who did people grannys up on their side and other lunatic extremists and so what are they going to do about them? Cue silence again.

Snowy continued to educate the great unwashed class warriors about various things and some of them you could see were coming round to the fact we were not nazis etc, Snowy said to them stop believing the sh1te they read on the leftie websites about the EDL and start using their own brains for once.

Just as we were about to leave the lad in the black T-shirt stood up and opend his bag and pulled out what we though was a black glove and put it in his pocket, so I stepped back and made sure the fire extinguisher I spotted earlier was still there as I though this Micheal Jackson impersonator might need putting out. I take my hat off to this cretin as he seemed the only one there who didn't seemed phased by any of us.

We said our goodbyes and Snowy tried to shake Mr universitys hand, Mr university delined the offer. I then said 'see you in Bradford then' and gave them a really big cheesy grin in only the way I can.

We left the building elvis style satisfied that we had got through to a few of the soap dodgers and I believe this is a result in itself.

There was a lot more

I'll ask Snowy to put his side across on here about his conversation with Mr university etc as he was our main speaker.

NOW TO ALL THE REDS FROM REVLEFT ON HERE AND THE REST.

We could have destroyed your meeting yesterday in a heartbeat, the lad in the black T-shirt seemed the only one who was 'up for it' but we didn't.

There were girls present and student types and we have our morals, I doubt you have or would have done the the same.

We will oppose you everywhere, any place and anytime and by any means necessary. You are nothing and always will be, you go on about 'controlling the streets' but you control nothing, we 'control the streets' and we do it without smashing up McDonallds.

You're all weak and pathetic wasters who have no place in society.

Yesterday, 6:43 PM post #165
Rooftop Legend & EDL Transport Organiser
Posts:194Group:Senior MembersMember#3,857Joined:Oct 8, 2009

You have to laugh at them, Charles and I may be close but not that close we are the same person.

Working class lmao the guy chairing the meeting was only working class in his dreams tbh most of the lefties if not all of them looked like they came from a much better back ground then I ever did. Thats the problem in this country the liberial left thinking they represent the working class man, when they have no clue what we want or what our fears are. How do uni students understand the struggles of growing up with none or little money when daddy pays for everything, having hand me down clothes, mum butchering your hair cos she couldn't afford to take you barbers, Dad working all day, doing jobs on a night and a weekend just so he can provide for his family. No luxuries, no foreign holidays (except when I was in my teens when they both cashed in their life assurance to send us aboard to visit family), no fancy car etc he worked hard for us but we hardly ever saw him as kids and to this day we are still quite distant. Especially now a days cos he can't see what his so called working class party has done to this country and Mr University had the cheek to blame the current Tory government, how can they actually believe and say the state of the country is down to someone thats been in power about 2 months, when we all know who fcuk us and this country over big time.

Charles have covered most of it very well but I will try to recall the full convo to the best of my knowledge.

Snowy "hi we are antifascists from Wakefield and want to know how we are going to bash the Fascists?"

Silence worried faces everywhere

Snowy "Come on what were the success's at Newcastle, how do you intend to stop the EDL?"

Mr Uni " Who are you again"

I decide to take a seat as one of them got up to stand near the door
Snowy "You know who we are, how do you intend to stop us?" (whoops force of habbit find it so hard to talk about EDL as third person)

Silence

Snowy "You know who we are, we are EDL and want to know how you intend to stop us?"

Mr Uni "can you leave please"

Snowy "no and shut up, you stated on your website that you want to militantly fight the EDL and we want to know how you intend to do that, militantly fight not debate so you are thinking of using violence, we could quite easily brought 50 lads today and just smashed you"

Big norweign lad tries to leave to have a cig

Snowy "where the fcuk you think you are going, no one leaves here you'll only phone ob" Charles blocks his path and tells him to stay put, he just stand there shaking don't know why as we have not at anytime threatened anyone

I then picked up an labour leaflet about milliband

Mr Uni "what you doing with that"

Snowy "having a look thanks and how are you working class then"

Mr Uni " I worked 20 years in steel industry (I put my house on it that it wasn't on the shop floor)"

Snowy "what do you do now"

Mr Uni "I work in the university sector"

Snowy " that explains it all, I was brought up by a shop steward and taught that labour was a working class party voted for them in 97 and then Tony Blair lied to us and took us to an illegal war never voted for them since"

Silence with the odd nod of aggrement

Mr Uni "what about the loss of jobs and this Tory government
Snowy "we are a single issue group and labour fcuked this country"

Mr Uni "can you leave you are just a bunch of racists, Tommy has been outed as being a member of the BNP"

Snowy "firstly if that is him it actually says former member, well I'm a former crackhead burglar but as you can see I ain't anymore"

Mr Uni "can you leave please we are having a meeting, how would you like it if i came to one of yours"

Charles "shut up sit down he's talking" lol

Snowy " Not a problem we have one wednesday I'll pick you up at top of M606 and take you with me and you can speak to our lads as we believe in free speech thats why we've come for a debate"

Mr Uni " Its ok just tell me where it is I'll make my own way"

Snowy laughs "yes course you will more like phone ob to stop it"
At this point I decided to ignore Mr Uni completely as it was like talking to a brick wall, so I just addressed the others

Snowy "So you all want to over throw the government and make this country into a communist state"

Various "we don't want that"

Snowy "Of course not but some of the left do, I would be stupid to say you all do yet you all believe the propoganda that we are all racists, yes we have racists who attach themselves to us but we are weeding them out and will continue to do so. If you examine the BBC staff list you would find racists there the same with most big organisations. If it turned out EDL was a racist organisation then I and thousands of others would leave, not just because they trust me for what I have done but also cos its what they believe in, if you don't believe me go on to exposing racism on facebook and ask Darcy Jones if she thinks Snowy is a racist, one of my best mates in EDL has a mixed race partner and kids, the lad that has gone outside has a mixed race family so how can they be racist, I don't care what colour someone is, I just want to live in a free country. Please don't listen to the propoganda open you minds and see whats going on we have to stop the extremists no matter which side they are from, I have never been a football hooligan I'm just a working class lad that is worried about the future of this country I don't want to live under sharia law"

Mr Uni "it will never happen"

he was now irrelevant so I just ignore him

Snowy "All I ask is you look at this with an open mind and not believe all the propoganda, have we been aggressive or attacked you in any way no, we could of easily just waited outside and attack you when you left but we only want to debate with you"

Has I said at the start I have remembered this too the best of my knowledge, I may have the odd word wrong and missed bits out. Basically I chaired their meeting for a good 10/15 mins and those that know me once I start its hard to get a word in edge ways lol I will say some of them did have the decency to listen. I offered my hand to Mr Uni and Ten men but both declined, I also only took one photo while in there of Ten men as he seems the sort that will be trying to use violence against our supporters.

I did also notice that one of our brothers had sat amongst them at the other side of the room and had been involved in a convo with them what was said I don't know but at no time did any of them seem threaten by his presence in fact they seem to listen to what we had to say which Mr Uni didn't like at all. For the record the most attractive female in the room was of mixed race hardly the thoughts of a nazi racist. We left as we arrived in a orderly fashion thanking them for they time.

If that is the sum of people they can gather together as a coalition of antifascists we really don't have anything to worry about.

For the lefties reading this no matter what you do we will always be a thorn in your side and I will do whatever is necessary to stop you brain washing the youth of this country and you my have the uni's of this country due to the fact you use fascist style methods ie only allowing one point of view put to the students but when they leave and have lived in the rat race then the majority will realise the lies they have been fed and drop you like a bad habbit. You are also going to see a shift in the future as the next generations leave school cos EDL is already spreading to the youth and they are our future not yours.

Socialism is something most people grow out of EDL is for life, fighting a losing battle is pointless and we all know you will stand side by side with radical Islam rather then admit you are wrong well you have been warned if they get their way and introduce the Sharia into British law do you really think you will be treated better than the rest of us. Wake up before its too late they are the real fascists and tbh your point blank refusal to listen to anything but your propoganda makes you no different from the fascists you say you are against.
Regards Snowy
NO SURRENDER

Bitter Ashes

7th July 2010, 13:19

Hmm. Well, credit where it's due I'm suppose. They do seem to have been trying to be diplomatic. Can't fault them on that.

Seeing as though the focus of the meeting was militant anti-fascism, then making it public was very silly and this should never have happened. Fortuantly, these guys seem to be some of the nicer lot who, just like the rest of us, just want some pretty damn basic stuff like food, a home, medical care, education for thier kids and the like. As they quite rightly point out, if they'd wanted to have caused trouble, they could have easily and gotton away with it.

That bieng said, I'm wondering whether there could have been an attempt to talk to these guys. I mean, after all, we're all after the same sort of thing - a comfortable life. The only difference really is in strategy. They think that they're going to get that stuff by attacking some imaginary terrorists, while we believe that workers united will get what we all want. Obviously, you can't have it both ways because attacking muslims divides the workers, which prevents unification.

Then again, I'm sat here saying this and I wasn't there and I imagine that the AF guys were a bit shaken up for whatever reason. Maybe we should try diplomacy?

nuisance

7th July 2010, 14:08

redSHARP

9th July 2010, 05:23

basic idea:

1. show up to there gigs and show them that they are not going to have free rule
2. talk to community people (sympathetic mayors/Muslims/anyone) try to get the people of that community to understand the EDL are thugs and that a peaceful community wont let violent thugs into the area
3. pass around fliers and anti-fa music samplers to anyone who might want one
4. get those south african horns and drown them out with noise

these are basic ideas that can be used in general and have been mentioned on this forum plenty of times, and none of them are violent which is a preferable in my opinion

Fictional

9th July 2010, 11:09

I'm confused.. they let them stay at the meeting and nothing resorted to violence? :confused:
Still waiting on another EDL/WDL March in Wales, chasing 100 of them off into the distance and then they claim we're cowards?

Wanted Man

9th July 2010, 12:26

"The situation is getting dire" because a bunch of people attended a (publicly advertised?) meeting and its organisers did not know how to deal with it? Hmm...

Stuff like this:

Bullshit. You don't have to experience it before figuring out that the EDL are likely to gatecrash your meeting that is organising against them- especially when groups have had meetings targeted already. This meeting also spoke of militancy and the, now taken down statement from the Antifascist Coalition, said that the EDL with not 'be tolerated on the streets' anymore, wtf? So they will not be tolerated on the streets but they will be tolerated in a meeting that was supposed to be composed of people wanting to militantly combat them. Why weren't they even calmly ushered out, it's not like there was many- 20-4.

The attendees where fucking lucky that the EDL didn't pop round mob handed and turned them over. How can people organise against people known to use violence if they do not even try to provide a safespace for a public meeting.

It's also ridiculous why this is being repeatably wiped from Indymedia aswell.

The real question that needs to be answered is what were the organisers thinking? I also wonder if any coppers were in attendance.

Surely this is down to inexperience of some sort? From the outside, I get the impression that some folks are playing a game without understanding the stakes. They've seen some videos from Germany or Italy or whatever, and now they also want to be "Antifa hooligans" who are going to "smash the Nazis in the streets", with treehouse meetings to prepare it, posturing on the internet about who has the biggest penis, etc.

This thread is a pretty funny example, with all the call-outs by durhamleft and stuff like that. Ooh look at me, I'm preparing a militant anti-fascist force, BUT please PM me because teh internets aren't safe!!! I'd say there's a lot of confusion and inexperience in general.

EDIT: I see that in the "Similar Threads" list, there is a link to the "Dire Straits appreciation thread". It is completely off-topic, but kind of cool. Dire Straits can never be appreciated enough.

No pasarán

9th July 2010, 13:03

I don't posture on the internet cos I don't need to. It's a great place for discusion but not for action. Plus a lot of people are very good at talkin up their millitancy but don't understand the reality of actually acting out on it.

I recently had a mate tell me the best way to deal with the EDL was molotov cocktails... right... he also couldn't comprehend what the EDL are (they ARE NOT FASCISTS but loyalists/patriots/nationalists- still not a good thing, but not as bad as they could become). Admitably he was drunk at the time.

While we should not compromise or back down to the EDL we should try and engage them in debate if given the chance, try and make them realise all the lies goverment proganda and the media has fed them. However if we are gonna have a public meeting to discuss them, it should be done with proper (experinced stewarding) and as a broad front (ie not just anarchists).

Steve_j

11th July 2010, 05:05

AF Leeds and their side of the story.

Report on the Antifascist Coalition Meeting on the 3rd of July 2010

On Sat the 3rd Leeds Anarchist Federation called a meeting for an Antifascist Coalition in Leeds with the intention of discussing the EDL and ideas for how to respond to their plans to march in Bradford in August. The people attending the meeting were aware of the EDL’s intention to attack the meeting but decided to go ahead with it anyway. Preparations were made for this possibility with the intention to try to de-escalate first, as a fight in the Swarthmore Center was in no way what we wanted, and we were prepared for other eventualities should a de-escalation fail. However, this predicted attack never materialised.
What did happen was that 5 unknown people arrived. The door was locked and so they rang the buzzer and waited. They claimed to be antifascists wanting to go to the antifascist meeting. When they came in one of them told us they were antifascists from Wakefield and asked us what we were going to do about the EDL. Two of them stood nervously in the doorway and the others sat down, one of them went and sat quietly at the other end of the room from his friends. We asked why they wanted to confront the EDL and they said because some of them are racist. We tried to question them further about this but it seemed that the guy doing most of the talking didn’t feel he was doing a very convincing job. He said “You know who we are, don’t you?”, so we asked who and he said they were the EDL. At this point, a number of people in the meeting stood up and positioned themselves more conveniently, so this man started insisting they didn’t want a fight and they were just here to explain that they weren’t racist. He insisted repeatedly that he was just here to talk and made numerous defensive bids for acceptance (“don’t tar us all with the same brush”, etc). They seemed to be more concerned about PR than anything else but the brief exchange we had with him was predictably ridiculous and it wasn’t the time or the place to discuss what he wanted so we asked them to leave and after a few repetitions of “But just let me finish…”, they did.
Despite being less of an attack and at most a mild inconvenience, it is in the interest of this man, called Snowy, to exaggerate this incident and his role in it as much as possible. Since the rooftop protests in Dudley he’s been trying to rise higher in the ranks of the EDL and is obviously hoping that he and his faction will gain more credibility if he makes it in and out of an antifascist meeting unscathed (no matter how this was accomplished). Snowy’s political ambitions are pretty transparent and his attempts to make his strange behaviour look impressive are equally transparent.
The politics of the EDL feed into an agenda that poses a threat to the unity of the working class and has to be confronted. All over the world the bosses and politicians are using the recession to attack the working class using the nationalist rhetoric that “we’re all in this together”, while the EDL serve to focus concerns away from these attacks onto immigrants and foreign culture, simultaneously encouraging the white working class to identify with the white ruling class in an act of pseudo-rebellion that only serves to undermine their own interests. Although the EDL is not a fascist organisation, their presence on the streets of Bradford will only serve to strengthen the division of the working class according to tribalist principles of ethnicity and culture. Having said this, testosterone laden politics that responds with merely street violence fails to adequately address the situation. Our response has to be in accordance with our political aims.
Anarchist Federation Leeds

http://yorks-afed.org/2010/07/report-on-the-antifascist-coalition-meeting-on-the-3rd-of-july-2010/

Luther Blissett

20th August 2010, 23:58

The JTF, followers of Victor Vancier, ex-JDL convicted terrorist and leading ranter of JTF, also classed as a terrorist organisation in Israel and USA, have discovered this forum.

So if JTF are reading this thread - let me tell you these European far-right EDL are going after the Muslims, then they'll come back to mop up the rest of us Jews.

As early as 2006, original co-founder Paul Ray Cinato was being touted by antisemite Pat Robertson's CBN 700 club, claiming he was a political exile. The reality was he was a drug dealer in Luton who got into trouble with the law and with other drug dealers (lay down with dogs, get up with fleas).
The new leader nominated holocaust denying BNP for his local council!

Using people like Cinato and antisemitic Islamophobic groups like EDL and BNP can only ever backfire. The self-confessed pagan-leader of the semi-fictitious Jewish division has openly admitted to using the EDL against Muslims, and wants to ban Halal and Kashrut, and Beth Din!

I am not a revolutionary leftist. I am not a communist. I am not a leftist, even though the problematic political compass says I am economically left.
I am a non-violent Jewish anarchist and associating with rightwing antisemitic Islamophobic scum like this can only worsen the situation for Jews in Europe.

The Christian hard right (not righteous gentiles at all) follow a perverted teaching of Christianity that desires a warrior-Christ on the throne of Jerusalem and all Jews who refuse to convert to Christianity murdered.

Drop your support of EDL and those like them. Leftwing antisemitism on the revleft site by some members is obvious, but we'd be fools to believe the rightwing has not stopped their antisemitism. The rightwing hide their antisemitism behind their hatred of Islam. If they succeed their aims, they will try to destroy whatever is left of Judaism and Jews, secular or otherwise.

No to extremisms! No to religious intolerance! No to racisms!

durhamleft

21st August 2010, 00:11

The JTF, followers of Victor Vancier, ex-JDL convicted terrorist and leading ranter of JTF, also classed as a terrorist organisation in Israel and USA, have discovered this forum.

So if you're reading JTF - these European far-right EDL are going after the Muslims, then they'll come back to mop up the rest of us Jews.

As early as 2006, original co-founder Paul Ray Cinato was being touted by antisemite Pat Robertson's CBN 700 club, claiming he was a political exile. The reality was he was a drug dealer in Luton who got into trouble with the law and with other drug dealers (lay down with dogs, get up with fleas).
The new leader nominated holocaust denying BNP for his local council!

Using people like Cinato and antisemitic Islamophobic groups like EDL and BNP can only ever backfire. The self-confessed pagan-leader of the semi-fictitious Jewish division has openly admitted to using the EDL against Muslims, and wants to ban Halal and Kashrut, and Beth Din!

I am not a revolutionary leftist. I am not a communist. I am not a leftist, even though the problematic political compass says I am economically left.
I am a non-violent Jewish anarchist and associating with rightwing antisemitic Islamophobic scum like this can only worsen the situation for Jews in Europe.

The Christian hard right (not righteous gentiles at all) follow a perverted teaching of Christianity that desires a warrior-Christ on the throne of Jerusalem and all Jews who refuse to convert to Christianity murdered.

Drop your support of EDL and those like them. Leftwing antisemitism on the revleft site by some members is obvious, but we'd be fools to believe the rightwing has not stopped their antisemitism. The rightwing hide their antisemitism behind their hatred of Islam. If they succeed their aims, they will try to destroy whatever is left of Judaism and Jews, secular or otherwise.

No to extremisms! No to religious intolerance! No to racisms!

I would love to see some examples of 'left wing antisemitism' because I suggest you mean anti Israeli posts, and your inability to distinguish between the two highlights you as a pillock.

Secondly, you're pro-Israeli, why? are you fucking mad?

Thirdly, what on earth do you mean 'drop your support of the edl and those like them'? are you suggesting we support them?

fourthly, is english not your first language, because it seems you dont understand what has been posted?

durhamleft

Luther Blissett

21st August 2010, 00:32

I would love to see some examples of 'left wing antisemitism' because I suggest you mean anti Israeli posts, and your inability to distinguish between the two highlights you as a pillock.

Secondly, you're pro-Israeli, why? are you fucking mad?

Thirdly, what on earth do you mean 'drop your support of the edl and those like them'? are you suggesting we support them?

fourthly, is english not your first language, because it seems you dont understand what has been posted?

durhamleft

Examples of left wing antisemitism - see the url at: you-dont-look-anti-semiticDOTblogspotDOTcom

Yes, I am pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian. People, real people matter.

If we accept self-determination for Israelis, we must accept it for Palestinians.

If we accept boycott of Palestinians is immoral and economically and socially damaging, then accept that this applies also to boycotts of Israel.

If we accept that it was damaging to portray Europe's Jews as vermin and aliens in the earlier 20th century, then accept that it is equally damaging to portray Europe's Muslims as vermin and aliens in the early 21st century.

If you want liberation for all people and freedom from oppression, then don't stand with those who would oppress others.

All this is basic libertarianism. Any so-called left or right libertarian who praises or uses oppressive methods to achieve their aims is no libertarian.

Glossary
Israeli=real live breathing living feeling person
Palestinian=real live breathing living feeling person

State of Israel - an existential land without defined borders
State of Palestine - an existential land without defined borders

durhamleft

21st August 2010, 00:52

Examples of left wing antisemitism - see the url at: you-dont-look-anti-semiticDOTblogspotDOTcom

Yes, I am pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian. People, real people matter.

If we accept self-determination for Israelis, we must accept it for Palestinians.

If we accept boycott of Palestinians is immoral and economically and socially damaging, then accept that this applies also to boycotts of Israel.

If we accept that it was damaging to portray Europe's Jews as vermin and aliens in the earlier 20th century, then accept that it is equally damaging to portray Europe's Muslims as vermin and aliens in the early 21st century.

If you want liberation for all people and freedom from oppression, then don't stand with those who would oppress others.

All this is basic libertarianism. Any so-called left or right libertarian who praises or uses oppressive methods to achieve their aims is no libertarian.

Glossary
Israeli=real live breathing living feeling person
Palestinian=real live breathing living feeling person

State of Israel - an existential land without defined borders
State of Palestine - an existential land without defined borders

So one should have supported the Nazis on the basis it would be damaging to their people to stop trading with them and a boycott of Nazi goods would have hurt German workers. Is that what you're saying pal? That it was wrong to boycott South Africa, because it harmed the white farmers who treated their black counter parts like shite? You're telling me that it is wrong to boycott a nation that bombs Palestinian families, cos some farmer in Israel may be made unemployed from farming strawberries on land that doesn't belong to him- land that was stolen from a Palestinian farmer 60 years earlier!? Madness.

durhamleft

21st August 2010, 00:53

and regarding left wing anti-Semitism, you said it was on here, I want examples from here, not a link to a website.

Luther Blissett

21st August 2010, 00:56

and regarding left wing anti-Semitism, you said it was on here, I want examples from here, not a link to a website.

If it's not obvious to you ... go figure.

Prime example -
you're pro-Israeli, why? are you fucking mad?

durhamleft

21st August 2010, 01:42

If it's not obvious to you ... go figure.

Prime example -

THAT IS NOT ANTI-SEMITISM YOU FUCKING PLONK!

I CAN HATE THE AMERICAN STATE, BUT HAVE NOTHING AGAINST AMERICANS.

I CAN HATE THE NORTH KOREAN REGIME, BUT HAVE NOTHING AGAINST NORTH KOREANS.

I CAN HATE THE GOVERNMENT OF IRAN, BUT HAVE NO ISSUE WITH MUSLIMS.

ISRAEL IS A STATE. A STATE THAT KILLS PALESTINIANS BECAUSE THEY ARE RACIST PIGS. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT ISRAELI's ARE AT FAULT, MANY OPPOSE THAT REGIME, AND IT CERTAINLY DOES NOT MEAN JEWS ARE TO BLAME. MY OBJECTION TO ISRAEL, LIKE MANY HAVE JEWS HAVE, IS NOT THAT THEY ARE JEWISH, IT IS THAT THEY KILL PALESTINIANS LIKE THEY ARE SUB HUMAN AND THEY ARE INHABITING STOLEN LAND THAT IS NOT THEIRS TO OCCUPY!!!

~Spectre

21st August 2010, 01:43

Boycotts of Israel generally don't involve starving Israelis and turning Israel into a big prison camp. This would seem to be a salient difference to keep in mind.

Luther Blissett

21st August 2010, 01:54

You forgot one thing - I clearly state I am pro-Israeli (and pro-Palestinian) but for being pro-Israeli, you called me mad.

The State of Israel kills Israelis too. There are more Israelis in prison on minor drugs charges than there are Palestinians in Israel's prisons.

When Israelis refuse to serve in the territories or the army, they are imprisoned and the state makes propaganda to label them traitors.

So I am pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian, and your caps-lock rants (and puerile bolding of my tired typos) are not going to alter my view on this.

THAT IS NOT ANTI-SEMITISM YOU FUCKING PLONK!

I CAN HATE THE AMERICAN STATE, BUT HAVE NOTHING AGAINST AMERICANS.

I CAN HATE THE NORTH KOREAN REGIME, BUT HAVE NOTHING AGAINST NORTH KOREANS.

I CAN HATE THE GOVERNMENT OF IRAN, BUT HAVE NO ISSUE WITH MUSLIMS.

ISRAEL IS A STATE. A STATE THAT KILLS PALESTINIANS BECAUSE THEY ARE RACIST PIGS. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT ISRAELI's ARE AT FAULT, MANY OPPOSE THAT REGIME, AND IT CERTAINLY DOES NOT MEAN JEWS ARE TO BLAME. MY OBJECTION TO ISRAEL, LIKE MANY HAVE JEWS HAVE, IS NOT THAT THEY ARE JEWISH, IT IS THAT THEY KILL PALESTINIANS LIKE THEY ARE SUB HUMAN AND THEY ARE INHABITING STOLEN LAND THAT IS NOT THEIRS TO OCCUPY!!!

durhamleft

21st August 2010, 02:00

You forgot one thing - I clearly state I am pro-Israeli (and pro-Palestinian) but for being pro-Israeli, you called me mad.

The State of Israel kills Israelis too. There are more Israelis in prison on minor drugs charges than there are Palestinians in Israel's prisons.

When Israelis refuse to serve in the territories or the army, they are imprisoned and the state makes propaganda to label them traitors.

So I am pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian, and your caps-lock rants are going to alter my view on this.

Good ;-)

Yes, the state of Israel kills Israeli's, however unless I'm mistaken, they don't kill 700 Israeli children in less than a week of bombing.

Perhaps I should be clear, I not calling you mad for being pro-Israeli, as in wanting rights for Israeli citizens, however the term pro-Israeli does not really have that connotation anywhere, what it is perceived as is being pro-Israeli government, and pro the unlawful occupation of Palestine.

Luther Blissett

21st August 2010, 02:01

Boycotts of Israel generally don't involve starving Israelis and turning Israel into a big prison camp. This would seem to be a salient difference to keep in mind.

Pushing the world's Jews into Israel where they become segregated and radicalised and too afraid to leave even though Israel is the most dangerous place in the world for Jews - is that not similar to a prison camp?

Encouraging the world's Jews to emigrate to Israel, where they must be indoctrinated to consider all Arabs their enemies or be considered traitors to their people = is thsty not similar to a prison?

Being taught that Europe could at any time become oppressive to non-Christian religions once more (and there is truth in this), is that not equivalent to being imprisoned?

It is happening again - this time, the Muslims AND the Jews of Europe (and America) are having their religious freedoms threatened.

durhamleft

21st August 2010, 02:04

Pushing the world's Jews into Israel where they become segregated and radicalised and too afraid to leave even though Israel is the most dangerous place in the world for Jews - is that not similar to a prison camp?

Encouraging the world's Jews to emigrate to Israel, where they must be indoctrinated to consider all Arabs their enemies (after what Europe did for over 1,000 years years) and taught that Europe could at any time become oppressive to non-Christian religions, is that not equivalent to being imprisoned?

And it's happening again - this time, the Muslims AND the Jews of Europe are having their religious freedoms threatened.

You are so ill-informed I cannot believe it.

Luther Blissett

21st August 2010, 02:06

So you don't agree that Jews and Muslims in Europe are having their religious freedoms threatened?

durhamleft

21st August 2010, 02:10

So you don't agree that Jews and Muslims in Europe are having their religious freedoms threatened?

I think Muslims are currently, the Jewish community has not been anywhere near as threatened over the last decade thankfully.

The thing that I was flabbergasted at was the way you were comparing the standard of living Israeli's have to life in Gaza. You're absolutely bonkers pal.

Luther Blissett

21st August 2010, 02:17

I think Muslims are currently, the Jewish community has not been anywhere near as threatened over the last decade thankfully.
That does not answer the question. Are Jewish and Muslim religious freedoms currently under threat in Britain? In Europe? In USA?

The thing that I was flabbergasted at was the way you were comparing the standard of living Israeli's have to life in Gaza. You're absolutely bonkers pal.

You're bonkers, pal. I did not compare the standard of living between the two. You are the one who compares and concludes that a tit-for-tat is the only way forward. The solution is an end to tit-for-tat.

It's clear that Palestinians have suffered economic boycott at the hands of the State of Israel since it was founded.

What I am saying to you, is that the solution lies in the absence of boycotts.

The entire eastern mediterranean economy is flagging - releasing the economic and labour boycotts for Palestinians and allowing them to trade and produce goods and work would restore their economy, and improve the economies of their neighbours.

durhamleft

21st August 2010, 02:22

You're bonkers, pal. I did not compare the standard of living between the two.
It's clear that Palestinians have suffered economic boycott at the hands of the State of Israel since it was founded.

What I am saying to you, is that the solution lies in the absence of boycotts.

The entire eastern mediterranean economy is flagging - releasing the boycott on the Palestinians and allowing them to trade and produce goods would restore their economy, and improve other economies.

Yes, but do you think the Israeli government, who have spent 70 years treating the Palestinians like shit are going to do so on their own will, or will they only lift the embargo on Palestine when they are under political and economic pressure; economic pressure from ooo I don't know... a boycott of their goods maybe?!?

durhamleft

21st August 2010, 02:27

That does not answer the question. Are Jewish and Muslim religious freedoms currently under threat in Britain? In Europe? In USA?

You're bonkers, pal. I did not compare the standard of living between the two. You are the one who compares and concludes that a tit-for-tat is the only way forward. The solution is an end to tit-for-tat.

It's clear that Palestinians have suffered economic boycott at the hands of the State of Israel since it was founded.

What I am saying to you, is that the solution lies in the absence of boycotts.

The entire eastern mediterranean economy is flagging - releasing the economic and labour boycotts for Palestinians and allowing them to trade and produce goods and work would restore their economy, and improve the economies of their neighbours.

I would say Islamic religious freedom is, but generally speaking Jewish religious freedom is not, no.

Luther Blissett

21st August 2010, 02:51

I would say Islamic religious freedom is, but generally speaking Jewish religious freedom is not, no.

Then you may not have noticed - both are under threat. The laws which protect religious freedom, and enable Kosher and Halal slaughter, are one and the same law. Outlaw Halal slaughter, and Kashrut goes too. Same with the religious law - outlaw Sharia arbitration, and the Beth Din go too. Make the following of Sharia illegal, and Halacha becomes illegal too.

It's strange you didn't notice, because most Jews and Muslims did.

Fidel Follower

21st August 2010, 13:05

I like turtles.

Thirsty Crow

21st August 2010, 13:55

So I am pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian, and your caps-lock rants (and puerile bolding of my tired typos) are not going to alter my view on this.
Wait, you support a state that murders Jews as well as Palestinians? You support a state that terorrizes its ethnic Jewish population and simultaneously murders and plunders Palestinians, very much so in a organized fashion?
And you call yourself an anarchist?

That is a contradiction in terms.

And you should learn that opposition to the genocidal, quasi-fascist state of Israel does NOT equate with anti-semitism or any other kind of malignant attitude towards Jewish people.

~Spectre

21st August 2010, 15:25

Pushing the world's Jews into Israel

What the fuck are you talking about? No one on the left pushes the world's jews anywhere.

Luther Blissett

21st August 2010, 22:33

Wait, you support a state that murders Jews as well as Palestinians? You support a state that terorrizes its ethnic Jewish population and simultaneously murders and plunders Palestinians, very much so in a organized fashion?
And you call yourself an anarchist?

That is a contradiction in terms.

And you should learn that opposition to the genocidal, quasi-fascist state of Israel does NOT equate with anti-semitism or any other kind of malignant attitude towards Jewish people.

That is not what was said. Go back and read again what was said.

And I explained why I am pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian. I made no mention of states at all. I even pointed out how the State of Israel oppresses Israelis, not only Israeli Arabs, which we take as a given, but those Israelis who stand against continued oppression of Israeli Arabs and Palestinians, and the continued institutionalised anti-Arab indoctrination of its Jewish citizens that occurs by segregation, through militarisation and through party politics and McCarthyite pressure groups like Im Tirzu are .

I would say Islamic religious freedom is, but generally speaking Jewish religious freedom is not, no.
The EDL want to ban ALL religious slaughter and ALL religious arbitration in Britain. How are British Jews NOT affected by this? Shechita and Beth Din are equally under threat from the campaigns of the EDL, ENA and BNP. They know this, they've had it pointed out to them often enough.

I like turtles.
I like turtles too.

Luther Blissett

21st August 2010, 23:06

What the fuck are you talking about? No one on the left pushes the world's jews anywhere.

Csarist Russia did. Soviets did. Nazi Germany did. Where did I mention the left did?

The threat against Muslim religious freedoms today is also against Jewish religious freedoms. You surely must realise this is so, else it had not occurred to you that the campaigns by BNP/EDL/ENA against religious slaughter and religious arbitration courts threaten the religious rights/rites of Muslims AND Jews.

Islamophobia is the new antisemitism.