Die Neue Zeit
3rd July 2010, 17:12
A very good discussion emerged in another board:
http://www.rabble.ca/babble/babble-banter/conscripted-police-force
Professional militaries have a poor track record when it comes to overthrowing governments. Conscripted citizen armies on the other hand have a much better record. A good historical example of this is ancient Rome. The Roman republic was founded with a citizen army and became an empire only after the professionalization of its legions. We might actually be witnessing history repeating itself south of the border.
More recent history has many examples of professional militaries seizing control of the state, just look at Latin America in the twentieth century. Conversely when conscripted soldiers refused to shoot on fellow citizens in red square it lead the collapse of the Soviet Union.
So why wouldn't a conscripted police force be just as effective in preventing a police state?
Discuss.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1871/civil-war-france/ch05.htm
Marx certainly exaggerated things when he said "Having once got rid of the standing army and the police..." In the paragraph beforehand, he said that "the police was at once stripped of its political attributes, and turned into the responsible, and at all times revocable, agent of the Commune." The Programme of the French Workers Party (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/05/parti-ouvrier.htm) called for "the Commune to be master of its administration and its police."
[This is more realistic than part of the CPGB's programmatic statement (http://www.cpgb.org.uk/article.php?article_id=1002576) that "The existing armed forces and the police will be disbanded. In their place there will be a people’s militia that will embody the right of everyone to bear arms" - as if militias can take over policing functions.]
What was abolished, however, and in spite of the ban on gambling, was the infamous "Morality Police" (according to Engels (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1871/civil-war-france/intro.htm)), akin to Islamist religious police Committees for the Propagation of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice.
Other things to consider is the nuance between the regular police for dealing with regular crime, police units that merely issue tickets both personally and commercially, criminal investigation functions (FBI), and of course the more repressive sections of the police (riot police, "domestic intelligence" re. "national security," etc.).
Discuss.
http://www.rabble.ca/babble/babble-banter/conscripted-police-force
Professional militaries have a poor track record when it comes to overthrowing governments. Conscripted citizen armies on the other hand have a much better record. A good historical example of this is ancient Rome. The Roman republic was founded with a citizen army and became an empire only after the professionalization of its legions. We might actually be witnessing history repeating itself south of the border.
More recent history has many examples of professional militaries seizing control of the state, just look at Latin America in the twentieth century. Conversely when conscripted soldiers refused to shoot on fellow citizens in red square it lead the collapse of the Soviet Union.
So why wouldn't a conscripted police force be just as effective in preventing a police state?
Discuss.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1871/civil-war-france/ch05.htm
Marx certainly exaggerated things when he said "Having once got rid of the standing army and the police..." In the paragraph beforehand, he said that "the police was at once stripped of its political attributes, and turned into the responsible, and at all times revocable, agent of the Commune." The Programme of the French Workers Party (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/05/parti-ouvrier.htm) called for "the Commune to be master of its administration and its police."
[This is more realistic than part of the CPGB's programmatic statement (http://www.cpgb.org.uk/article.php?article_id=1002576) that "The existing armed forces and the police will be disbanded. In their place there will be a people’s militia that will embody the right of everyone to bear arms" - as if militias can take over policing functions.]
What was abolished, however, and in spite of the ban on gambling, was the infamous "Morality Police" (according to Engels (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1871/civil-war-france/intro.htm)), akin to Islamist religious police Committees for the Propagation of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice.
Other things to consider is the nuance between the regular police for dealing with regular crime, police units that merely issue tickets both personally and commercially, criminal investigation functions (FBI), and of course the more repressive sections of the police (riot police, "domestic intelligence" re. "national security," etc.).
Discuss.