Re: Sexiness of socialist architecture/urban design

[Deny]

Maybe this should go in Learning, but I'm not that serious about it, and I'm a noob in general, and I really don't know if it makes any damn sense to any one else.

1) Am I the only one who gets warm tingly feelings looking at satellite shots of Pyongyang, Yakutsk, and other cities built under leftist regimes? Like, I see photos of public housing, monuments, etc., and I literally find it thrilling.

2) What is this feeling? What am I attracted to?

3) Is there any field of literature within Marxism or elsewhere that deals with the aesthetics of socialist buildings and design?

I mean seriously, there's some aspect of these places that appeals to me, and I literally don't know to describe it. I invite any and all flames that I have coming.

[Invincible Summer]

I actually like socialist architecture and socialist realist art, although I know everyone hates it. There's just something so... oppressively monolithic about it that it's beautiful.

[AK]

1) Am I the only one who gets warm tingly feelings looking at satellite shots of Pyongyang, Yakutsk, and other cities built under leftist regimes? Like, I see photos of public housing, monuments, etc., and I literally find it thrilling.
I usually get more of a "that's so utterly fucking dreary I'd rather hang myself than live there" feeling.

2) What is this feeling? What am I attracted to?
Inanimate objects. Be afraid.

3) Is there any field of literature within Marxism or elsewhere that deals with the aesthetics of socialist buildings and design?
Maybe there was some sort of document detailing how to build things really quick after your country was bombed to shit?

[manic expression]

I would agree that socialist architecture is quite incredible. It's varied with a lot of different styles and countries over the years, but it's all-around better than whatever was going on in capitalist countries at the same time.

The Moscow Metro, the Seven Sisters, the Gates of Minsk, Novosibirsk Opera and Ballet Theatre, School 518...there are a lot of gorgeous examples of architecture in socialist countries.

http://www.essential-architecture.com/STYLE/STY-Stalinist.htm

That's more of the neo-classical trend in socialist architecture, which took over from constructivism in the early 30's. I'm a sucker for classical architecture, and socialist architects were able to put a unique spin on the classical heritage far better than most western architects, so it's all the more interesting and successful IMO.

http://www.essential-architecture.com/STYLE/STY-SocialistModern.htm

Here are some examples of "Socialist Brutalism", or more simply more modernist designs. As you can see, it's more flexible and doesn't stick to a certain formula, but IMO it's not frantic or hackneyed like the deconstructivist charlatans who are making a joke of architecture today (yes, Hadid and Gehry and Liebeskind, that includes you).

The reason socialist architecture is more exciting, more debatable, more intriguing is because, well, it's actually creative. It's what architecture was supposed to be. While western modernism (Bauhaus, etc.) was destroying architecture and forcing it into abandoning all decoration and style and soul, the Soviet Union was commissioning works that beautified cities, and this forged a heritage to be proud of. I defy anyone to compare major socialist buildings to the glass-and-steel structures that we see in almost every capitalist city...one is interesting, the other is boring. That's why socialist architecture is better.

Oh, and by the way, I love how everyone thinks socialist architecture is just concrete residential blocks. No one recognizes that you can find the same exact projects in every western country, and that cities like Tokyo are essentially chock-full of them. Hell, even Stockholm went concrete-block crazy in the 60's-70's. It's just that familiar double-standard we're all used to. Haters gonna hate.

[Deny]

Oh, and by the way, I love how everyone thinks socialist architecture is just concrete residential blocks. No one recognizes that you can find the same exact projects in every western country, and that cities like Tokyo are essentially chock-full of them. Hell, even Stockholm went concrete-block crazy in the 60's-70's. It's just that familiar double-standard we're all used to. Haters gonna hate.

IDK, it's like with Stalinist, etc. architecture I get a sense that they're "trying", as though the buildings all have an inherent meaning as part of their respective system that makes me admire them regardless of their validity with respect to design.

Say there were two identical apartment houses, one is in Boston, the other is in Urumqi (NW China, btw, has my personal favorite examples of design/planning). The one is Boston doesn't say anything to me because it merely fits in to the liberal democratic paradigm or whatever you would call it. But the one in China speaks as though to say "I am a socialist building, which means not only 'I house one hundred people', but also some specific meaning, like 'I was built in 1950 by such-and-such workers' group', or 'This building houses seventeen government workers, five teachers, six janitors, etc.'"; the building only speaks these additional meanings because it is part of the larger framework of the state/party/popular apparatus.

That was a lot of Zizekian rambling there, but I think it makes sense. And I liked those links, btw. Gracias.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

The original Bauhaus was socialist and I think some of their projects were quite beautiful, far different than the glass block International Style monstrosities that it morphed into.

Some of the Stalinist architecture is beautiful. I lived in Moscow for a time. Many buildings I thought originally dated from the late 19th or even 18th centuries I found were built in the 30s or 40s.

Much Stalinist architecture is overly "monumental" for my tastes. Friends of mine call the Washington, DC subway system "Stalinist", it has the same monumental grandeur. A bit alienating, I prefer something more human and community oriented.

There were two Soviet constructivist architects/artists. Towards the end of their careers they developed a form of "ecological architecture". I forgot who they were and this has been bugging for the past few years.

[Deny]

Much Stalinist architecture is overly "monumental" for my tastes. Friends of mine call the Washington, DC subway system "Stalinist", it has the same monumental grandeur. A bit alienating, I prefer something more human and community oriented.


Personally, I'm a big fan of grandeur. Better that stations be built with some romance in mind than that they look the NYC subway :crying:

[Lyev]

I find socialist realism architecture or whatever you call it unimaginably bleak and grey. It has no life in it. It's just colourless shapes; there's no expression or emotion. It makes me fucking depressed.

[counterblast]

I like socialist architecture in post-socialist countries.

The buildings and monuments are so dreary and blank under most bureaucratic socialist regimes,that they're almost always the first things to be covered with lovely urban art by the people when those "regimes of liberation" (whatever that means...) crumble. Its like the working people giving a big "fuck you", to those ranking officials who called themselves liberators, as if to say "This grafitti is more liberatory and representative of the working class than the designers of your Department of Public Housing can ever be! Government-made socialist buildings are blank canvasses, just asking to be recreated.

[Hiratsuka]

Can't say that I'm all too thrilled by architecture appointed from above by some wild card bureaucrat, no.

Public housing thrilling, lol. Oh god.

[Os Cangaceiros]

3) Is there any field of literature within Marxism or elsewhere that deals with the aesthetics of socialist buildings and design?

You should read Communitas by Paul Goodman.

[Spawn of Stalin]

Maybe this should go in Learning, but I'm not that serious about it, and I'm a noob in general, and I really don't know if it makes any damn sense to any one else.

1) Am I the only one who gets warm tingly feelings looking at satellite shots of Pyongyang, Yakutsk, and other cities built under leftist regimes? Like, I see photos of public housing, monuments, etc., and I literally find it thrilling.
I know how you feel. I'm a bit of an architecture nut and have always had an attraction to socialist buildings. My favourite style of architecture is 60s brutalist, early brutalist architects were pretty heavily inspired by the buildings which had been built as a result of rapid development in the socialist countries, USSR, PRC, DPRK.

2) What is this feeling? What am I attracted to?
You are in love! It's a great feeling, don't question it, relish it.

3) Is there any field of literature within Marxism or elsewhere that deals with the aesthetics of socialist buildings and design?
I have a good book called 'The Architecture of the Stalin Era', picked it up at a booksale at the Morning Star HQ in London for about 30p. Check Amazon. Also while browsing around in Borders a year or so ago I saw a book of photographs from Belarus, if you like socialist architecture you will like this book, not much writing in there, but the photos are to die for. Unfortunately I can't remember the name of the book or the photographer. Check your local book shop.

[Chimurenga.]

I find socialist realism architecture or whatever you call it unimaginably bleak and grey. It has no life in it. It's just colourless shapes; there's no expression or emotion. It makes me fucking depressed.

What, like this?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f0/Vitra_fire_station%2C_full_view%2C_Zaha_Hadid.jpg/800px-Vitra_fire_station%2C_full_view%2C_Zaha_Hadid.jpg

[AK]

What, like this?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f0/Vitra_fire_station%2C_full_view%2C_Zaha_Hadid.jpg/800px-Vitra_fire_station%2C_full_view%2C_Zaha_Hadid.jpg
I swear I was looking at a construction site...

Anyhow, maybe this (http://primeau-canada.com/russia/mos-98-001m-kuts.jpg) will show you why Stalinist architecture is so incredibly shitty.

[Chimurenga.]

I swear I was looking at a construction site...

Anyhow, maybe this (http://primeau-canada.com/russia/mos-98-001m-kuts.jpg) will show you why Stalinist architecture is so incredibly shitty.

This picture was taken in 1998...

[AK]

This picture was taken in 1998...
Somehow I don't think the building was constructed then.


The architectural mix of Russian Imperial, Stalinist adornment, Soviet ugly and modern architecture must be unparalleled anywhere else in the world. Our apartment complex on Kutuzovsky Prospect (left) and indeed most of the buildings on our street (right) are examples of what we lovingly came to call "Soviet Ugly", the prevading style of many of Moscows neighbourhoods rebuilt after the Great Patriotic War (WWII).
http://primeau-canada.com/russia1.htm

[the last donut of the night]

I like socialist architecture in post-socialist countries.

The buildings and monuments are so dreary and blank under most bureaucratic socialist regimes,that they're almost always the first things to be covered with lovely urban art by the people when those "regimes of liberation" (whatever that means...) crumble. Its like the working people giving a big "fuck you", to those ranking officials who called themselves liberators, as if to say "This grafitti is more liberatory and representative of the working class than the designers of your Department of Public Housing can ever be! Government-made socialist buildings are blank canvasses, just asking to be recreated.

lol

[Hiratsuka]

To be honest, if we're going to cherry pick from 20th century regimes, I'd say Albert Speer handedly won in serving his purpose.

That said, from the perspective of someone who loves architecture, I'd rather live in a country that allowed room for different ideas to express themselves than one that forced one style forward.

[Deny]

You are in love!


Well, that's a strong way of putting it. Or maybe it's scarily accurate :P

[manic expression]

The buildings and monuments are so dreary and blank under most bureaucratic socialist regimes,that they're almost always the first things to be covered with lovely urban art by the people when those "regimes of liberation" (whatever that means...) crumble.
Do you have any examples of this? I've been through Poland, the Czech Republic and fmr Yugoslavia and I haven't seen anything like this. Hell, the only "lovely urban art" that adorns housing are the bullet holes you can still see in Bosnia and Herzegovina.


I swear I was looking at a construction site...

Anyhow, maybe this (http://primeau-canada.com/russia/mos-98-001m-kuts.jpg) will show you why Stalinist architecture is so incredibly shitty.Well, that construction site is considered one of Zaha Hadid's masterpieces, and she's considered one of the foremost architects of her generation. Cue laughter. Oh, and that building? IIRC, it was never used as what it was designed for (a fire station :lol:)...because the design is completely impractical. Cue more laughter. What a joke.

On the Soviet building: first of all, that's not really "Stalinist architecture", because that term refers to a specific architectural style (neo-classicism with a Soviet twist, basically). In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it was part of the style promoted by Khrushchev after Stalinist architecture was tossed aside.

Second, it's a housing complex. You can find the same exact thing in just about every country, especially in those ravaged by WWII (Japan especially). Like I said, Stockholm based its "Million Project" on even bleaker models, and they never had a post-war demand for housing. Concrete blocks aren't aesthetically pleasing, but they got the job done when the job mattered most.

By the way, on the link you quoted, all the evidence we need is in its own words: "...after the Great Patriotic War." Yeah, after most Soviet cities were reduced to rubble. Perhaps we can forgive the Soviets for not throwing up a Palladian villa for every man, woman and child in Eastern Europe.

[counterblast]

Do you have any examples of this? I've been through Poland, the Czech Republic and fmr Yugoslavia and I haven't seen anything like this. Hell, the only "lovely urban art" that adorns housing are the bullet holes you can still see in Bosnia and Herzegovina.




East Berlin is probably the best known example of this.

Poland and middle eastern countries controlled by Russia (ie:my home country of Azerbaijan), too. And theres central Moscow, too.

[manic expression]

East Berlin is probably the best known example of this.

Poland and middle eastern countries controlled by Russia (ie:my home country of Azerbaijan), too. And theres central Moscow, too.
There's graffiti on both sides and I wouldn't think it qualifies as architecture. In general, what's been built doesn't rival the socialist buildings of Karl-Marx-Allee (the Jewish Museum by Liebeskind...ugh). Just compare the Soviet embassy to the new US embassy...there's absolutely no comparison. Knocking down the Palast der Republik and planning to rebuild the Stadtpalast is their idea of innovation. Sad.

Poland's post-socialist architecture is downright atrocious; I remember how just about every city we passed through had at least one supremely tacky, wince-inducing church that was obviously built after socialism. The concrete block projects looked like they hadn't been renovated in decades at least.

As for Moscow and Azerbaijan (where I haven't been), I'd be interested in seeing examples.

[Glenn Beck]

Maybe this should go in Learning, but I'm not that serious about it, and I'm a noob in general, and I really don't know if it makes any damn sense to any one else.

1) Am I the only one who gets warm tingly feelings looking at satellite shots of Pyongyang, Yakutsk, and other cities built under leftist regimes? Like, I see photos of public housing, monuments, etc., and I literally find it thrilling.

2) What is this feeling? What am I attracted to?

3) Is there any field of literature within Marxism or elsewhere that deals with the aesthetics of socialist buildings and design?

I mean seriously, there's some aspect of these places that appeals to me, and I literally don't know to describe it. I invite any and all flames that I have coming.

You are not alone. I love that shit. I love the "dreary" apartment blocks most of all.

Also this blog: http://nastybrutalistandshort.blogspot.com/

[scarletghoul]

http://comtourist.com/pyongyang-monuments

[Buffalo Souljah]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQHVS_IWKRQ&feature=player_embedded