How do i argue against this?

[The Red Next Door]

Cuba only vote for their members of parliment, they don't vote for their leader, so they are sort of a watered down democracy.

[Broletariat]

That sort of argument seems to imply that there exists a form of democracy today in the world somewhere that isn't "watered down." I would implore you to ask where one could find such a thing today.

[AK]

In Australia we don't vote for our Prime Ministers, either. We vote for MPs and the leader of the party whose MPs have secured most seats in Parliament gets to be Prime Minister. In my own personal opinion, such a system is even less democratic than if we were to vote for a Prime Minister or President - which is still representative democracy and inherently authoritarian (the only vaguely democratic nature of a representative democratic system is the election process itself, the authority required to rule the state is in the hands of a few hundred individuals).

And if whoever you are debating with says that the Cuban head of state is appointed by the party or something, the point whoever you are arguing with to the Australian Labor Party's appointment of Julia Gillard as Prime Minister, and the party sacking Kevin Rudd as a result. It was perhaps one of the most undemocratic things to come out of one of the fabled Western "Democracies".

[BAM]

^
Same happened here (UK) when Blair quit and Brown took over. And when Thatcher quit and Major took over. And when Wilson quit and Callaghan took over. And when Eden quit and Macmillan took over ...

[ed miliband]

What about when Kennedy got blown up and LBJ took over?

[AK]

That's not so much the party taking matters into it's own hands as the federal government following pre-decided procedures.

[maskerade]

Tell them that democracy is not all about voting, and then tell them that participation in the government is at 90% (or more) in Cuba, whereas the US is at 54% or so. Then tell them about the forms of workers democracy that exist in cuba (the limited variations), and the local politics which are more democratic than most of us will probably experience.

Tell the person you're arguing with that there is more than one concept of democracy, show the difference between socialist and bourgeoisie democracy. Then, just for kicks, ask him why he is attacking cuba, and not Saudi Arabia - perhaps America's largest ally in the middle east - Egypt, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan - countries which enjoy some sort of relationship with the US, and definitely not a crippling trade embargo. It has nothing to do with defending Cuba's democracy, but it is worth the try to attempt to open your friends eyes on these matters

[Chambered Word]

Tell the person you're arguing with that there is more than one concept of democracy, show the difference between socialist and bourgeoisie democracy. Then, just for kicks, ask him why he is attacking cuba, and not Saudi Arabia - perhaps America's largest ally in the middle east - Egypt, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan - countries which enjoy some sort of relationship with the US, and definitely not a crippling trade embargo. It has nothing to do with defending Cuba's democracy, but it is worth the try to attempt to open your friends eyes on these matters

Cuba claims to be socialist and socialists maintain that our ideology is democratic while Saudi Arabia is widely known to be oppressive. That's probably why they're attacking Cuba.

[DaComm]

We don't technically vote for the President in the US any more than the people of Cuba do. Remember the role of the Electoral College--our votes for the Presidency are actually votes for a secondary body who actually elects the President, albeit usually in accordance with the popular vote. Ask detractors how Cuba is any different.


We in the US, however, differ from Cuba in that we are not the ones who choose the people we elect. It is instead Money's job to decide who we are to elect. Therefore, we do not elect from our own class, and our rulers are not from our class, but the captialist class which is the one that retains all the moneys. Our leaders therefore, do not have the same class interest that 95% of the people they govern do. I'm not sure however, if Cuba's system allows the people to chose the candidates.

[RED VICTORY]

I think this is mainly due to the lack of trust that Fidel and Raul have for others. Faced with constant attempts at assassination and counter-revolution from outside Cuba and even within I would find it hard to give up the power to guide the nation too. The revolution in Cuba is constantly changing and Fidel and Raul are aging. Recently I listened to a lecture on resistance mp3 (search for this on google because i can't post links yet). The lecture is from the marxism 2009 conference so check out that site and that lecture- Cuba: 50 years after the revolution. There are many conflicting views on Cuba in this lecture.

[GPDP]

Cuba claims to be socialist and socialists maintain that our ideology is democratic while Saudi Arabia is widely known to be oppressive. That's probably why they're attacking Cuba.

While this is a fair point, I should also point out most people have no idea of socialism's commitment to democracy. A lot of people actually think it's a totalitarian ideology even (the glorious Dear Leader, dictatorship of the party, etc.), based on the history of pseudo-socialist regimes.

[Lyev]

While this is a fair point, I should also point out most people have no idea of socialism's commitment to democracy. A lot of people actually think it's a totalitarian ideology even (the glorious Dear Leader, dictatorship of the party, etc.), based on the history of pseudo-socialist regimes.And I'll add, regardless of your opinions on Cuba, and how successfully you're able to tick your "true socialist" boxes when it comes to analyzing Castro's regime and legacy, Cuba should be defended against American imperialism, and from those who think socialism is a "totalitarian Communist state", or some crap like that. Building socialism is a dynamic process, it's not static; all things considered, I think Castro and the people of Cuba have done reasonably well over the years. I think illiteracy and unemployment are pretty much non-existent, the healthcare is pretty good too.

But, whilst this thread is around I have my own question: is it really true that it's totally illegal for native Cubans to leave their own island? I heard this from someone who went on holiday there, it could be a total fabrication.

[Foldered]

I'm going to honest; I don't even know how the fuck we work in Canada (I don't vote; the closest standing to me is the CCP (Canadian Communist Party) and they're Marxist-Leninist and, unfortunately, that isn't Anarchist enough for me to become member of :( . All I know is that it ain't doing us any good.