Classic capitalist madness!

[Wolf Larson]

This is regaurding the oil spill a couple decades ago but I keep hearing the same crazy arguments from you free market people! Why?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBgB4JuI2gc

[Dimentio]

My favourites tend to be that "capitalism has made the environment better, just look at what good air quality developed first world nations have!"

Or, "we must go all environmental and privatise all water so those pesky poor people don't pollute it"

[Jazzratt]

Free marketeers, like certain other types, are very much hidebound dogmatists. Most arguments with them boil down to fruitlessly trying to shout over their rote-learned catechisms. Every fifty years or so one of them has to update a few of them to fit with "hot button issues" (like the environment).

Perhaps I live a sheltered existance or something but I've yet to meet anyone that's actually fallen for all their bollocks (well, I met one guy who had once fallen for it but that doesn't really count). I'm not entirely sure why they aren't considered an irrelevent but very shouty group of bloviators and blowhards.

EDIT: When I say "meet" I mean in the sense that I could reach out and slap them if they began reciting select phrases from The Holy Book of Markets. I have obviously encountered these sad types on the internet but I can say that I've geniuenly not met a comensurate number of lolbertarian animal fannies in real life.

[Nolan]

Jazzratt, you need to cross the pond and immerse yourself in American political culture for a few years. :lol:

Nothing will seem out of the ordinary again.

[Scary Monster]

:lol::lol: Captain Cuba is too right. Here in the US, pro free-market talking points are regurgitated in every medium imaginable during every waking hour. You wont go a minute without hearing some sort of quip or seeing a subtle implication about how great capitalism and privatization is. Im not exaggerating either. Its incredibly annoying :lol:

[Dean]

:lol::lol: Captain Cuba is too right. Here in the US, pro free-market talking points are regurgitated in every medium imaginable during every waking hour. You wont go a minute without hearing some sort of quip or seeing a subtle implication about how great capitalism and privatization is. Im not exaggerating either. Its incredibly annoying :lol:
Absolutely. The free market is the language of the ruling class.

[Wolf Larson]

The oil spill is the governments fault!

[Nolan]

Ok fuck the world I'm just going to go blow my brains out. I had someone in person tell me today that environmental regulations were the cause of BP's mess. This country is too far gone.

[Havet]

I found it very interesting when I was watching the Daily Show by Jon Stewart that BP had commited something along the lines of 700 deliberate violations of protocols while Exxon had only made like 4, and all the other companies had around 5 or 10 violations.

How can it be that only 1 company dared to make more deliberate mistakes?

Could it possibly have to do with the fact that its a british corporation, and to maintain a good relationship with the U.K., the U.S.A. government turned a blind eye to them?

Also if you go check their wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BP), there's all sorts of referenced protocol/regulation violations and monopolistic actions.

And if you check their history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BP#History), it all stinks from middle eastern conflicts.

I think it's very important to understand how one company among others in the U.S.A. managed to acquire such power and became immune to common standards.

Any ideas?

[Bud Struggle]

The oil spill is the governments fault!

Well yes, in part. It's the government's job to police corporations and make sure that they don't break the law, don't take shorcuts and don' violate the public interest.

Granted for the most part corporations have free reigh over what they do and don't do --but and it's a big but, ghovernment does have some responsibility to keep the corporations in check where it is permitted by law.

It's pretty obvious that in the BP oil spill case the government wasn't doing its job. And this isn't to take any blame away form BP--they are the major culprets by far.



Could it possibly have to do with the fact that its a british corporation, and to maintain a good relationship with the U.K., the U.S.A. government turned a blind eye to them?

Personally, I blame Jazzratt for the oil spill. :D

[Wolf Larson]

^ LOL pointless argument with capitalist boi will make jonny a dull boy. all work and no play makes jonny a dull boi. blah blah blah ...
place the lotion in the basket?

hey, i think it might be the profit motive? ever think of that?

[Havet]

hey, i think it might be the profit motive? ever think of that?

All the other companies also acted according the profit motive. Why did only 1 break so many regulations? How do you explain that?

[Dimentio]

All the other companies also acted according the profit motive. Why did only 1 break so many regulations? How do you explain that?

The other were just cowards? :lol:

[Jazzratt]

All the other companies also acted according the profit motive. Why did only 1 break so many regulations? How do you explain that?Well, you advanced one theory that they're less regulated (by the US anyroad) and that's why they were able to get away with their unfettered marketeering.

[Wolf Larson]

All the revleft quacks in one thread. Anarcho capitalists and technocrats! Oh joy.Hey Havet...what was it about technocracy that attracted you (in the other thread a few weeks ago)? It's hayenmill I presume? To the other capitalist...how or why would businesses regulate themselves under "anarcho" capitalism? Have you ever had a job? Are you not aware how profit is made? By squeezing as much labor out of workers with as high productivity as possible. Safety and the environment are not a priority. What were work place conditions like when government stayed out of the internal affairs of business? This isn't an argument for a state it's an argument against capitalism.

[Wolf Larson]

All the other companies also acted according the profit motive. Why did only 1 break so many regulations? How do you explain that?

Which one profited the most?

[Nolan]

All the other companies also acted according the profit motive. Why did only 1 break so many regulations? How do you explain that?

It might help to think of it like gambling.

[Havet]

Which one profited the most?

Before the oil disaster, certainly not BP

http://ycharts.com/search?q=BP%20vs%20CVX%20vs%20COP%20vs%20XOM

It's ALSO important to mention that the protocol violations i'm referring to happened during the period of 3 years

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1995618-2,00.html


Last October, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration fined BP a record $87.4 million for more than 700 violations at the Texas City refinery, despite its promises to fix the problems there. BP is a "serial environmental criminal," says Scott West, formerly of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), who investigated the company's work in Alaska.

[Havet]

Well, you advanced one theory that they're less regulated (by the US anyroad) and that's why they were able to get away with their unfettered marketeering.

Lol, I didn't advance any idea. I made a suggestion, but I can't possibly prove that the USA government purposefully turned a blind eye to BP when it operated. Usually evidence of corruption cases are matters of court and not of internet bbs

[RGacky3]

Could it possibly have to do with the fact that its a british corporation, and to maintain a good relationship with the U.K., the U.S.A. government turned a blind eye to them?

Also if you go check their wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BP), there's all sorts of referenced protocol/regulation violations and monopolistic actions.

And if you check their history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BP#History), it all stinks from middle eastern conflicts.

I think it's very important to understand how one company among others in the U.S.A. managed to acquire such power and became immune to common standards.

Any ideas?

Ok, so your saying that its the fact that they got away with not following regulation, so I'm supposing your answer is letting them do it without trying too? Or maybe your rational and your answer is for regulation to be enforced.


Granted for the most part corporations have free reigh over what they do and don't do --but and it's a big but, ghovernment does have some responsibility to keep the corporations in check where it is permitted by law.

It's pretty obvious that in the BP oil spill case the government wasn't doing its job. And this isn't to take any blame away form BP--they are the major culprets by far.


Thats true, but its also an example of why capitalism is not compatible with democracy.

[RebelDog]

Absolutely. The free market is the language of the ruling class.

It might be their language but when they talk about it they mean they want it for everybody else and they themselves to be protected from it in the form of bailouts, public subsidy for training/research, trade restrictions on overseas rivals, tax breaks, etc. Its not about the free-market, its about corporations shifting their costs to make bigger profits, and when they don't make a profit, the recent financial crisis being a huge example, the public pays the shareholders dividends.

[Havet]

Ok, so your saying that its the fact that they got away with not following regulation, so I'm supposing your answer is letting them do it without trying too? Or maybe your rational and your answer is for regulation to be enforced.

I have no answer, i was merely giving suggestions that could explain why only 1 COMPANY out of all others decided to break more regulations.