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ellipsis
1st July 2010, 05:47
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So I found myself having to mediate a bee swarm capturing dispute earlier today and some interesting issues were raised during the attempted mediation. Here is the context:

I work at a community farm which grows free produce for distribution in working class/immigrant neighborhoods in San Francisco. The land was home to a church which was destroyed by fire and left untouched for 15 years or something. The church allows the land to be used for the community garden, which is all coordinated by a man by the name of Tree who calls a lot of the shots but is kinda an old hippie and kinda spacy. A woman named Pam bought and installed a bee colony and has been trying to split the colony into two hives but Tree has been indecisive as to the location so it reached critical mass, where it swarms, meaning a new colony and queen leaves suddenly, so like 20,000 plus bees emerging all at once. At this point if the bees are not captured are given a new home/hive they will go where they please. Tree, who is the decider of these shorts of things was going on vacation when they called him and asked what to do, he didn't have Pam's number so, in haste as he is at the airport he calls another bee keeper, Bryon to come capture them. He shows up and starts capturing them and then Pam shows up to capture them too. Both parties want the bees and their claims of ownership or stewardship of the bees boils down to this.

Bryon claims that ancient apiary custom is dictates that he who arrives and captures the bees first becomes the steward of the beas, not the owner but the person he is to care for them and provide a hive for them to colonize. He is a very experienced bee keeper.

Pam claims that she bought the starter bees and equipment as a gift to the free farm with the intent and propagating and creating two healthy colonies for the farm/community. The only reason why this was even an issue is because Tree was indecisive about the location. This is her first colony and is new to the bee keeping game.

The land is owned by the church but controlled and worked by Tree, a "core group" which meets and the volunteers. The bees really belong to nobody but somebody needs to transport and care for the nascent colony. Also a lawyer in the bee keeping society was consulted and gave a neutral/lawyer response, as the actual "law" is a grey/gray area.

If it were you task to adjudicate this conflict, how would you rule and what would your reasoning be? In otherwords how would you settle this in a post-revolutionary society, assuming private ownership/stewardship of bees for public honey distribution is allowed?

Q
1st July 2010, 07:17
I can't say I'm into bee keeping or into ancient apiary customs, but it sounds to me Pam is being done ujustice here. She spent perhaps months of her time cultivating the colony into a critical mass and now just some other person, Bryon, comes along to claim stewardship because Tree called him first so Bryon was first on the spot.

This Tree person also sounds like a bad maintainer. If he's ought to call the shots on these issues, why doesn't he? In a post-revolutionary context, I would probably argue for the community farm to have regular meetings so these decisions can be made collectively. This is probably also the best solution to move towards today, given the non-commercial nature of the community farm. Certainly something to consider.

Bryon, being a senior bee-keeper, is not to be lightly dismissed though, certainly if this ancient apiary custom is correct. Given Pam is a new kid on the block on bee-keeping, I would put Bryon on a junior stewardship to the colony, so he can advise Pa whenever needed or deemed necessary.

That would be my reasoning.

Blackscare
1st July 2010, 09:53
In a post revolutionary society, I see no reason why a single person would have such disproportionate power in decision making. I understand why in this society though, seeing as he's the liaison with the church and has a certain responsibility to the people lending the land to him in the event of anything going wrong, which would of course make him sort of the defacto decision maker.

ellipsis
2nd July 2010, 06:07
I was more interested in the ownership issue, the organization of the farm crew is a whole 'nuther bag or worms. What ended up happening is that four members of the core group met and unanimously agreed to let Pam keep the bees at the farm. I don't really care for bee drama I just wanted more than one person to vote in the absence of Tree and without any other system in place for dealing with this.

The Red Next Door
2nd July 2010, 06:29
The bees belong to themselves and nature, if i had it my way, they would be liberated from making shit for anyone.

Q
2nd July 2010, 08:35
The bees belong to themselves and nature, if i had it my way, they would be liberated from making shit for anyone.

Sorry, but this is utterly stupid. First of all, bees aren't humans, projecting human liberation struggles on bees is silly. They aren't even individuals but a hive-collective in which all clones operate as one. Secondly, your stance would effectively collapse much of the fruit agriculture for example as bee keepers are a vital part in the chain of production in this area (how else do you think the blossom will get fertilised? By wind and sheer chance?).

The Red Next Door
2nd July 2010, 21:32
Sorry, but this is utterly stupid. First of all, bees aren't humans, projecting human liberation struggles on bees is silly. They aren't even individuals but a hive-collective in which all clones operate as one. Secondly, your stance would effectively collapse much of the fruit agriculture for example as bee keepers are a vital part in the chain of production in this area (how else do you think the blossom will get fertilised? By wind and sheer chance?).

Sorry for my stupidity.:blushing:

ellipsis
18th July 2010, 06:59
pam ended up with the bees which is best because they stay at the farm.

samofshs
19th July 2010, 02:09
yes ancient customs can be quite fickle sometimes. i have to deal with a lot of these types of disputes and moderne logic usually ends up deciding the matter.:thumbup1:

scarletghoul
19th July 2010, 02:25
Pam should keep the bees but as compensation you should let Bryon name one of them.