"Communism won't work in reality"

[mollymae]

Often in debates if communism is brought up, it is likely that someone will say something along the lines of "communism is a nice idea, but it could never work in real life." I realize this is a cliche argument, and it's a cop-out for anyone who doesn't want to attempt to actually explain why they think communism couldn't work on a large scale, but still--as communists, when someone says this to you, how do you personally react to it? What do you say to convince them otherwise?

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

It pisses me off to the high heavens. Its not even worthy of argument, and is a hollow statement based on a lack of understanding of even the basics of Marxism.

I would ask them how much they have read into communism, and then recommend them some titles.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Worldwide capitalism is a nice idea, but it doesn't work well in reality; that's why meat markets are glutted with excess with product while millions starve worldwide.

[Demogorgon]

It is not a clear statement, simply something so vague as to be meaningless but still sound alright in a casual argument. The answer first of all is to ask why it won't work. Sometimes the answer to that boils down to "just because" at which stage you aren't going to get much further, but usually you will get arguments about human nature (another hopelessly vague one) or fears that it inevitably leads to dictatorship. So practice your answers to those.

[Nikolay]

It pisses me off to the high heavens. Its not even worthy of argument, and is a hollow statement based on a lack of understanding of even the basics of Marxism.

I would ask them how much they have read into communism, and then recommend them some titles.

+1 :thumbup1:

[Lyev]

Worldwide capitalism is a nice idea, but it doesn't work well in reality; that's why meat markets are glutted with excess with product while millions starve worldwide.This, definitely. If you say communism won't work you at least have to consider the alternatives. The alternative is capitalism which clearly doesn't work. As I told someone earlier on Facebook (I debate quite a lot on Facebook): "...you honestly think the current austerity measures, along with millions out of employment, riots and general strikes on mainland Europe, *two* highly illegal and wasteful wars in the middle east, governments spending billions on bombs instead of education and healthcare, 2.1 bil. people in the world living on less than $2 a day, 5% of people on earth owning 95% of the wealth, Walmart and Coca-Cola making more money per year than some third-world countries and Israel blowing up boats full of aid-workers is at all indictive of the best possible system?"

[Broletariat]

"reality" and "realistic" are the watchwords for political cowards I've noticed in general.

[jefferson]

Simply say that given the world economic crisis as it is now, proves that capitalism doesn't work and, the fact that the USA bankrupted itself in destroying socialism in other countries is a good sign that socialism has a point.:thumbup1:

[el_chavista]

"communism ... could never work in real life."
The capitalist greedy vermin are calling communism a ghost since Marx wrote a Manifesto for the German League of the Communists out then in 1848.

[Vendetta]

Often in debates if communism is brought up, it is likely that someone will say something along the lines of "communism is a nice idea, but it could never work in real life." I realize this is a cliche argument, and it's a cop-out for anyone who doesn't want to attempt to actually explain why they think communism couldn't work on a large scale, but still--as communists, when someone says this to you, how do you personally react to it? What do you say to convince them otherwise?

"Why not?"

[TheSamsquatch]

Every argument i get into, of course that statement comes up, and something like "Well Hitler was a communist," or "I dont wanna live where the government controls everything i do!!!!!!" or some shit like that. People really believe everything they're told without taking the time to research things.

[Broletariat]

Every argument i get into, of course that statement comes up, and something like "Well Hitler was a communist," or "I dont wanna live where the government controls everything i do!!!!!!" or some shit like that. People really believe everything they're told without taking the time to research things.
That is, until we're the ones telling them it.

[Chimurenga.]

Explain patiently and point them in the right direction. If you peak their interest enough, they may be coming back to you for more. Then, soon enough, you just may have a comrade. ;)

[HEAD ICE]

Ask your friend if he supports "free markets." That there should be enough to answer him.

[The Ben G]

"Prove it". If they bring up the failure in the past, "Just because Stalinism didn't work as planned doesn't mean that it can't work in the future, let alone other thought schools".

[this is an invasion]

Often in debates if communism is brought up, it is likely that someone will say something along the lines of "communism is a nice idea, but it could never work in real life." I realize this is a cliche argument, and it's a cop-out for anyone who doesn't want to attempt to actually explain why they think communism couldn't work on a large scale, but still--as communists, when someone says this to you, how do you personally react to it? What do you say to convince them otherwise?

Say that.

and then tell them to stfu

[Kirien]

It is normal and expected to be cautious of the unknown. Humanity has never seen communism in its proper form implemented, and even communists ourselves don't for the most part have a concrete image of how the revolutionary process and aftermath will look like. But that's okay, we'll figure it out step by step.

Tell them, first of all, to shake off pre-existing biases and approach the issue with an open mind. Keep in mind that so many aspects of our society which we take for granted now - yes, even capitalism - was unfathomable to the masses at some point in time. Once they accept this, feel free to direct them to the adequate sources/concepts for a better understanding of what communism actually is.

[MarxSchmarx]

The Ben G and Demogogrgorn are right.

You need to engage these people.

"Patiently explaining/telling them about what communism really is and how it can work" frankly is condescending and just smacks of preaching and the person saying communism won't work won't be impressed.

If they refuse to elaborate on why they think communism won't work, well, odds are they really aren't all that interested to begin with in discussing this point and are just repeating some vague impression as casually as I would dismiss something trivial like a band I know very little about and don't really care to know more about.

[mikelepore]

We're already living under a system that doesn't work. If we really did adopt a new system that didn't work, at worst that would be a move sideways.

[Luisrah]

I usually have 2 things I can do:

1 - Ask them why communism doesn't work

Have proof at hand or in your mind of how the quality of life skyrocketed in countries that became socialist. For example, today in Venezuela (wether you think it is or isn't socialism) the quality of life is much higher than before, and always growing.
Defend yourself by showing facts, irrefutable, that will leave your opponent with no option to argue.

And confronted with Stalin and whatever, always remember this. At the beggining of each system, there was always some kind of violence or mass murder or whatever when it showed up.
The republican revolution in France, the patriotic war (or whatever) of the USA, etc. And a really good example I have is that no one nowadays criticizes the Republic as a system of organization, based on the fact that Napoleon was a Republican, but turned an Emperor!
So how does it make sense to discredit Communism just because this or that guy got all the power, and started killing off people (and I'm not even talking about the exagerated numbers of 50 million heh while the Russian population was 150 at that time, meaning that Stalin would have wiped out 1 out of 3 people in Russia)

2 - Tell them how it is capitalism that doesn't work.

Once again, facts, facts, facts. Show your opponent how many people die everyday of hunger (around 25 thousand I believe), of Malaria, Diarrhea, all easily treatable diseases while some other guys make those numbers of deaths per year in money in half a day.

10 million people die of hunger every year (or more probably, you know how this stuff is)
2 million of diarrhea (treatable with a sort of syrup that costs like 5 cents)
2 million of Malaria (which could be stopped by a mosquito-net)

14 million every year means poor Communism couldn't even kill 1% of what Capitalism has ever made, and ''we've stopped killing''

[People's War]

I ask them why. Why wouldn't it work? Usually, the answer I get is that human beings are selfish and will never be able to co-operate as a true social unit. This despite the fact that until the rise of liberalism, people regarded themselves as part of a collective rather than as an individual. The idea of individualism is liberal, and will die with liberalism.

Obviously greed cannot be done away with immediately, which is why a dictatorship is needed to ensure the transition to true communism. After a long enough time, the state will wear away and a stateless communist society can be achieved.

[The Red Next Door]

I tell them, give me a better idea then.

[RED VICTORY]

These people should be engaged for sure so as to raise there class consciousness. When the situation comes up, and it does so often, i usually use the this technique; I ask them if they can name few a principles of communism/marxism/socialism as laid out in The Manifesto. When they cannot then you can supply them with the answers or main ideas.

We need to help them feel a bit troubled that they don't like something or feel negative about something they don't know anything about.

Working class folks need to understand that when they disregard socialism they disregard the working class. When they slander socialism they slander the working class. When they fight against socialism they fight against the working class. Why would a worker struggle against their own class and protect the rich exploiters by endorsing capitalism? That sounds ridiculous.

[mikelepore]

I ask them why. Why wouldn't it work? Usually, the answer I get is that human beings are selfish and will never be able to co-operate as a true social unit.

{sarcasm on}

But, for some mysterious reason, when the stockholders are invited to vote for the management, and the accountants are told to tabulate those votes using the formula one-share one-vote, then cooperating as a unit works out just fine. However, if the workers were permitted to vote for the management, and the accountants were told to tabulate those votes using the formula one-person one-vote, then, all of the sudden, cooperating as a unit would be impossible.

{sarcasm off}

[Tavarisch_Mike]

First of all i want to say that many leftist will be angry when they try to explain their opinion for some "unknown" telling them the cliché argument.Dont do that dont be irritatade and start to tell them what they should think, thats just makes people pissed off.

To the maine question. I would also go on the "this system doesnt function eighter"-line by explaining that poverty, ruling classes, wage slavery, wars and unequality isnt an natural part of life, that we actually today produces more then twice as much food as we need to feed the whole planet (ive heard the number 14 billion). Some people works theire asses off on jobs that they really hate maybe in shits up to 13 hours when some are unemployed and try desperatly to make just anything to provide their basic needs instead off letting this two groups share on the work and give them part of the results, once again if we just shared the resurces equally and planed society by the needs and wishes of the whole people we would make it instead of how it is today when the majority of us are fighting over scraps frome teable of the riches.

Edit; Oh yeah and wes hould allways try to explaine that greed and barbaric behaviour is not a neccesarly a part of human nature is the society of today that makes us like that, like alienation.

[BeerShaman]

Maybe by being a little cynical I could tell them, enjoy your misery. Though, I always other things, like: You know, society evolves. Life in the past was even harder. For example there was a time when bourgeois was an oppressed class. It's like kings then feudalism then democracy and capitalism then communism e.t.c...:)
I would also say, no matter what we can succeed in establishing as a social system. We always have to try for the best. Thus, if you agree with it, help it, help us, help yourself.
Or, really? Prove it? And then I'll prove hte opposite. Then I'll prove that capitalism fails and blah blah...
You know, blah blah blah...:)