For Cappies: What is the state in your view?

[Nolan]

And how does it differ from the leftist view of the state?

[RadioRaheem84]

The cappies, right wing libertarians, conservatives have a really WEIRD view of the State as this all encompassing menace that is only supposed to protect the haves from the have nots. They think it's this horrible thing that forces itself upon the "free exchange" of others, not realizing that the cappies wouldn't survive one day without state protection from the masses!

Their view of "statism" is key to understanding their flawed presumptions about anything they consider "left". When I describe socialism or anything leftist to them, they just assume that I am talking about a lecherous system that feeds off the private sector, totally thinking that socialism = social democratic welfare liberalism. They only view the State from capitalist eyes, and cannot see an entire tranformation of the mechanisms of the State.

If you keep drilling into the cappie's ideas of the State and explain patiently what socialism entails, they litterally cannot wrap their heads around the concept we're describing. It's almost alien to them as their minds cannot compute the information because they've been conditioned to only think of the State in terms described above.

[Nolan]

The cappies, right wing libertarians, conservatives have a really WEIRD view of the State as this all encompassing menace that is only supposed to protect the haves from the have nots.

I was under the impression it was the opposite. Many libertarians and ancaps (especially ancaps) actually view the state as something that serves the have-nots (the "lazy poor" that you hear about so much) and hurts private enterprise. Of course this is just a really asinine view of society, but it's common.

[RadioRaheem84]

I was under the impression it was the opposite. Many libertarians and ancaps (especially ancaps) actually view the state as something that serves the have-nots (the "lazy poor" that you hear about so much) and hurts private enterprise. Of course this is just a really asinine view of society, but it's common.

That's how they view the state as functioning now, but they want it to serve it's only function; protect private property rights.

[Nolan]

That's how they view the state as functioning now, but they want it to serve it's only function; protect private property rights.

Which in real life often entails...regulation. :lol:

[Dean]

Some go so far as the define the state as "any violence" and other crazy things. Basically, its whatever is convenient for their particular ideological ghetto.

[RadioRaheem84]

Some go so far as the define the state as "any violence" and other crazy things. Basically, its whatever is convenient for their particular ideological ghetto.


bingo. it changes so much that I cannot keep up with all of their inconsistencies.

[danyboy27]

and what about letting the cappies answer to the question rather than projecting their answer?

[RadioRaheem84]

and what about letting the cappies answer to the question rather than projecting their answer?


Be patient.

[Nolan]

and what about letting the cappies answer to the question rather than projecting their answer?

It's not like we're stopping them from commenting.

[danyboy27]

Be patient.
i just feel that your behavior will scare them away.
it was a question dirrected at them after all.

[Scary Monster]

The cappies, right wing libertarians, conservatives have a really WEIRD view of the State as this all encompassing menace that is only supposed to protect the haves from the have nots. They think it's this horrible thing that forces itself upon the "free exchange" of others, not realizing that the cappies wouldn't survive one day without state protection from the masses!

Their view of "statism" is key to understanding their flawed presumptions about anything they consider "left". When I describe socialism or anything leftist to them, they just assume that I am talking about a lecherous system that feeds off the private sector, totally thinking that socialism = social democratic welfare liberalism. They only view the State from capitalist eyes, and cannot see an entire tranformation of the mechanisms of the State.

If you keep drilling into the cappie's ideas of the State and explain patiently what socialism entails, they litterally cannot wrap their heads around the concept we're describing. It's almost alien to them as their minds cannot compute the information because they've been conditioned to only think of the State in terms described above.

Exactly. This reminds me of what my teacher said to the class. He says "Ya know there is this joke about communism- 'Communism works..until you run out of other people's money'". It was a forehead-slapping, eye-rolling moment. These folks dont know the first goddang thing about socialism/communism.

[Bud Struggle]

The state is the collective individual authorized to provide common amenities, provide for the commun defense and insure the general well being of all members of a society.

It provides schools for the general education, an army for the general defense, roads, uniform building codes, etc. It also insures the general protection of it's citizens from crime.

And yes, it protects private property.

[Jazzratt]

Some go so far as the define the state as "any violence" and other crazy things. Basically, its whatever is convenient for their particular ideological ghetto.
Didn't one of our resident right-wingers call theives a "state". I think it was about that time that I realised that actually, as far as some people are concerened, words don't actually mean a goddamn thing.

[Decolonize The Left]

The state is the collective individual authorized to provide common amenities, provide for the commun defense and insure the general well being of all members of a society.

It provides schools for the general education, an army for the general defense, roads, uniform building codes, etc. It also insures the general protection of it's citizens from crime.

And yes, it protects private property.

Yeah, BS is pretty spot on here. All my experience with capitalists and the general mainstream ideology re: the state boils down to the comments above (without the ending wit).

- August

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

They're whole ideology hinges on wordplay over the nature of a "state."

Sometimes I feel they literally, do not speak the same language as me.

Time and time again I try to explain that all institutions are "forced" onto people..not just the "state."

They just don't get it.

[Bud Struggle]

They're whole ideology hinges on wordplay over the nature of a "state."

Sometimes I feel they literally, do not speak the same language as me.

Time and time again I try to explain that all institutions are "forced" onto people..not just the "state."

They just don't get it.

That all depends on your relation to the state. Personally and maybe because I'm an American Capitalist, I don't feel estranged from the state, (but then again I never felt estranged when I was a proletarian either.) It's is a corporate extention of myself and my needs. It provides the things and want to make my life workable--things that I share with other people and to which I contribute to make and maintain.

I don't see anything forced on me. For the most part the state is part of me and I am part of the state. For the few dollars in taxes IO spend I have roads and schools and aminities. The state makes reasonable rules for me to life by to create harmony with other citizens life myself. It tells me what side of the road to drive on and where my back yard ends and my neighbors begins.

The state maintains a certain way of life to which I and my fellow citizens have agreed on.