The state of the left in USA

[maskerade]

There are a lot of comrades on here from the states, I was wondering if someone could explain the state of the left in the US - biggest parties/organizations, their acheivements, current struggles etc.

I know that USA's electoral system is deeply flawed and in practice only allows for democrats and republicans, but what gains are socialist and communist parties making in the wake of the recent economic crisis? With no media coverage and a society which, from my understanding, is still very segregated, it can't be easy.

Is there a large or perhaps growing anti-capitalist consciousness forming in America?

[Raúl Duke]

Is there a large or perhaps growing anti-capitalist consciousness forming in America?

There was a poll that shows more distrust towards capitalism and a slight increase, although not by much, of support for 'socialism.'

[mcg]

I just attended the US Social Forum in Detroit. Eighteen thousand attended various workshops on leftist issues like welfare reform, women's rights, LGBTQ, palestine, union organizing, socialism, etc... There were also a few powerful actions, against Chase Bank and against a trash incinerator. Still the left in the U.S. is weak. People are divided on many little causes. While we talk of solidarity, but there are too few of us spread on too many fronts. The vast majority of people remain enamored of Obama. Even people at the forum after being told how democrats did things like cut welfare or support right wing death squads in Columbia, still think that supporting Obama is the only option. The U.S. left has a deep divide between 'peaceful reformists' and the much fewer 'violent Marxists'. Meanwhile despite the economic depression, the wars, and everything else the vast majority of the country's working class, remain deluded or indifferent. The intellectual left, students and professors, are similarly inactive and reformist. Since Obama's election, there have been few protest actions, little revolutionary sentiment, and only very grudging progress.

[Raúl Duke]

Even people at the forum after being told how democrats did things like cut welfare or support right wing death squads in Columbia, still think that supporting Obama is the only option.

This is what I find depressing.

Not that the left is small, just that people naively cling on to worthless politicians.
Once people get over that trait (that the right politician is all we need) will there be an environment more conducive for the actual left to organize in, whether or not there are more self-described leftists or not out there in America.

[Red Saxon]

The worker has been made content with the current wage labor system mixed with consumerism and the "American Dream." He has become enamored by politicians who simply use him for his own economic and politician gain, and he has become so loyal to the Democratic party that it believes it has free ride to whatever it wants.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

There are a lot of comrades on here from the states, I was wondering if someone could explain the state of the left in the US - biggest parties/organizations, their acheivements, current struggles etc.

I know that USA's electoral system is deeply flawed and in practice only allows for democrats and republicans, but what gains are socialist and communist parties making in the wake of the recent economic crisis? With no media coverage and a society which, from my understanding, is still very segregated, it can't be easy.

Is there a large or perhaps growing anti-capitalist consciousness forming in America?

There are possible mass movements growing around several issues. There were student strikes in California and they are calling for more strikes on October 7. The Chicago teachers' union leadership was recently won by a rank and file caucus. A huge and indefinite nurses strike is set to take place in a week. The immigrant rights movement has been given new energy with the campaign going around repealing SB1070 (the racist, profiling law) in Arizona. The campaign to bring BP under public ownership is underway all over the country, as the environmental situation continues to get worse in the Gulf of Mexico thanks to capitalism. People who hoped Obama would end the wars, help the environment, create jobs, create more progressive taxes, or fix health care are starting see that the underlying capitalist system is being left intact by the 2 party system.

[vyborg]

...There were also a few powerful actions, against Chase Bank and...

Do you mean JP Morgan Chase?And about what?

[Wolf Larson]

one of the problems is the actual proletariat is separated from the 'intellectuals'. we need more people that are less pretentious (usually more attractive to the university crowd) people in the actual work places and working class neighborhoods. oakland has allot of various projects which are accessible to average person who doesn't have time to really read all day. the problem is education. the public and private schools are churning out people who have no understanding of socialism or how capitalism really works. allot of average people know something is wrong but cant quite "see the matrix" so to speak.

As Sartre says at the @ 1:15 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5gaD6E4EP4&feature=related

The media and all of its incessant propaganda....it's almost impossible to defeat concentrated wealth. The social consciousness in America is being formed by capitalists by in large.

One thing too many of us are doing is apologizing for the democrat party (Obama). The left is pathetic in that regard and hell, it's not like the CIA/NSA are done squashing socialism here in the states and around the globe.

How do you combat this machine? i've spent time handing out various works on socialism and anarchism at union jobs i've worked on and was laid off for it at one point. called a "commie" by the mostly white overweight red faced american flag toting co workers.


i think the petty bourgeois kids in the suburbs are more accessible as far as spreading socialism goes.

i dont know. no simple answer.

[Red Saxon]

i think the petty bourgeois kids in the suburbs are more accessible as far as spreading socialism goes.I'm a "petty bourgeois kid in the suburb" and I can agree with you that recruitment would probably be higher amongst this group. Disillusioned as my generation is with the established government and political order (we've grown up with stuff like Katrina, 9/11, and the war.) we are perfect candidates.

Remember, Lenin himself grew up in a bourgeois, although revolutionary, household.

[bailey_187]

The worker has been made content with the current wage labor system mixed with consumerism and the "American Dream." He has become enamored by politicians who simply use him for his own economic and politician gain, and he has become so loyal to the Democratic party that it believes it has free ride to whatever it wants.

Silly workers buying affordable clothes, ipods, fast food etc, dont they know they should only buy organic food, wear hand me downs and be more thrifty! :/

[dutch master]

If you wanted a view of what the US Left is like, you should have went to the US Social Forum. Wave after wave of smelly, dirty, crusty anarcho-white children, eating out of the trash and clogging the air of Detroit with their stink. Lots of worthless union staffers everywhere who are in love with Obama. Lots of tiny, irrelevant Trot groups with tables, talking about "Stalinism." And Bob Avakian, in all his glory (though he wasn't there to greet us, being "too important" to show his face).

The Left is in a bad way in America. Don't expect the revolution anytime soon.

[redSHARP]

there are to many groups, some are splits over the old trotsky/stalin conflict, while others are rather childish. this leaves the left very divided, but there have been times when these groups put away their differences and work together (usually for a protest or something)

[Wolf Larson]

If you wanted a view of what the US Left is like, you should have went to the US Social Forum. Wave after wave of smelly, dirty, crusty anarcho-white children, eating out of the trash and clogging the air of Detroit with their stink. Lots of worthless union staffers everywhere who are in love with Obama. Lots of tiny, irrelevant Trot groups with tables, talking about "Stalinism." And Bob Avakian, in all his glory (though he wasn't there to greet us, being "too important" to show his face).

The Left is in a bad way in America. Don't expect the revolution anytime soon.
LOL @ Bob Avakian's cult of personality.

[Martin Blank]

If you wanted a view of what the US Left is like, you should have went to the US Social Forum. Wave after wave of smelly, dirty, crusty anarcho-white children, eating out of the trash and clogging the air of Detroit with their stink. Lots of worthless union staffers everywhere who are in love with Obama. Lots of tiny, irrelevant Trot groups with tables, talking about "Stalinism." And Bob Avakian, in all his glory (though he wasn't there to greet us, being "too important" to show his face).

The Left is in a bad way in America. Don't expect the revolution anytime soon.

I would never expect any of these elements to be involved in a revolution, anyway, much less organize one. But this is why we chose to not go to the USSF, even though it was here in Detroit; we knew this was how it would turn out, and there were far better things to spend our time, energy and money on.

[Nolan]

A sad, sad mess. On top of that I expect to be dragged from my home by a neocon militia and executed in the woods.

[Wolf Larson]

A sad, sad mess. On top of that I expect to be dragged from my home by a neocon militia and executed in the woods.

But...but...they're working class...you must love them :)

[Nolan]

But...but...they're working class...you must love them :)

You a Tea Hugger?

[The Red Next Door]

In the USA and probably everywhere else, the left here. seem to be very elitist and academic for the average American worker; I guess it have something to do, with us at one point being liberal, and we have not gotten over that behavior trait. From when some of us, was liberals. We tend to focus to much in urban settings instead of rural; where I live it a mix of both rural and urban, those rural and urban areas make up Greater St.Louis including towns in Illinois. Here We have a Group called St.Louis united front, which is made up of far and center leftists. they operate in small rural towns near St.Louis and stuff. but they only do events. but yeah, one of our problems is being too smart and elitist for average workers.

[Wolf Larson]

You a Tea Hugger?

Just referencing this thread where i was 'framed' as 'hating' the working class for saying the same thing as you:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/can-someone-help-t137668/index3.html

[XxKrebsxX]

Pathetic.

I'm a minority. I live in a neighborhood that is crime ridden and most people's highest achievement is getting a $10.00 an hour job. My friends are all content and happy as long as they have their Xbox 360s, Jordans, IPods or whatever the fuck.

They all sincerely believe in the American Dream and that they will one day "make it" despite the fact no one around them has. Ever.

Best of yet, they all realize everything around them is fucked yet they do nothing nor do they care. Their attitude is "Why bother if nothing will change?". While I understand where they're coming from in that regard it's pathetic.

How can the left in America accomplish anything if we have people with that type of frame of mind?

[maskerade]

Pathetic.

I'm a minority. I live in a neighborhood that is crime ridden and most people's highest achievement is getting a $10.00 an hour job. My friends are all content and happy as long as they have their Xbox 360s, Jordans, IPods or whatever the fuck.

They all sincerely believe in the American Dream and that they will one day "make it" despite the fact no one around them has. Ever.

Best of yet, they all realize everything around them is fucked yet they do nothing nor do they care. Their attitude is "Why bother if nothing will change?". While I understand where they're coming from in that regard it's pathetic.

How can the left in America accomplish anything if we have people with that type of frame of mind?

It's not just in America where that mindset exists, and as far as I can tell it is a quite common approach that most people have these days. Counter-arguments I usually face sometimes go along the lines of "without capitalism we wouldn't have ipods, playstations, computers, would you want that?" and I think that really shows their priorities (and how little they have actually thought about changing our economy). A lot of the times it just seems to be a waste of time to argue with these people as they are so convinced they will either become really rich in their future, or they are more than content with their consumerist lifestyle.

It's sickening and worrying.

[9]

I'm a "petty bourgeois kid in the suburb" and I can agree with you that recruitment would probably be higher amongst this group.
Why?



Disillusioned as my generation is with the established government and political order (we've grown up with stuff like Katrina, 9/11, and the war.) we are perfect candidates.Incidentally, "[your] generation" is not exclusively comprised of "petty bourgeois kid[s] in the suburbs"...



Remember, Lenin himself grew up in a bourgeois, although revolutionary, household.His mother was an elementary school teacher and his father was the inspector of public schools. Neither one was bourgeois.



Originally Posted by Red Saxon
The worker has been made content with the current wage labor system mixed with consumerism and the "American Dream." He has become enamored by politicians who simply use him for his own economic and politician gain, and he has become so loyal to the Democratic party that it believes it has free ride to whatever it wants.this isn't my experience at all. Most workers and working class people I talk with are not "content" with the "current wage labor system" at all; they are being squeezed left and right, and they are hurting and painfully aware of it. As has been noted, there is a definite sense of hopelessness/helplessness. But this is something drastically different from just feeling "content", which very few workers are feeling.

[Atlee]

The worker has been made content with the current wage labor system mixed with consumerism and the "American Dream." He has become enamored by politicians who simply use him for his own economic and politician gain, and he has become so loyal to the Democratic party that it believes it has free ride to whatever it wants.

These divides run deep and over all have hurt the general left and those who want to lean left not knowing tendencies, but are forced to vote or run as democrats i.e. Brian Moore for Governor of Florida 2010.

[Atlee]

there are to many groups, some are splits over the old trotsky/stalin conflict, while others are rather childish. this leaves the left very divided, but there have been times when these groups put away their differences and work together (usually for a protest or something)

Even I have hung out with some peace people and given to their cause. :rolleyes: But yet again, :blink: they tend to ask their patrons to vote or be active for democrats. :crying:

[Atlee]

Pathetic.

I'm a minority. I live in a neighborhood that is crime ridden and most people's highest achievement is getting a $10.00 an hour job. My friends are all content and happy as long as they have their Xbox 360s, Jordans, IPods or whatever the fuck.

They all sincerely believe in the American Dream and that they will one day "make it" despite the fact no one around them has. Ever.

Best of yet, they all realize everything around them is fucked yet they do nothing nor do they care. Their attitude is "Why bother if nothing will change?". While I understand where they're coming from in that regard it's pathetic.

How can the left in America accomplish anything if we have people with that type of frame of mind?

Are you my neighbor? :confused:

I cannot tell everyone here how many times I have heard, "That's the way it is and that's the way they want it." When I go out trying to register voters and tell them what they can do as a whole in being active.

I feel some days like I am banging my head against a tree. :glare:

[graymouser]

These divides run deep and over all have hurt the general left and those who want to lean left not knowing tendencies, but are forced to vote or run as democrats i.e. Brian Moore for Governor of Florida 2010.
The Democrats are the problem, and progressives and "socialists" who run as Democrats help to continue the domination of the US left by forces that keep it loyal to the Democrats. (I am not referring to abstract "forces," there is a lot of money and effort and organized groups committed to keeping the US left at the feet of the Democratic Party.) I've had my own weaknesses toward the Democrats in the past but let's be honest, you aren't going to get anywhere by supporting a Democrat even if he's waving a red flag.

What we need in the US is a Labor Party based in the unions. I am more and more convinced that it is the lack of such a party that has kept the US left qualitatively powerless. With a Labor Party you would have a serious electoral vehicle for independence, and left politics wouldn't drift constantly toward the Democrats, that great "graveyard of social movements." Those who think they can get away without the step of creating a Labor Party can run socialist candidates until they turn blue but they'll never get more than a pittance of the votes.

[XxKrebsxX]

It's not just in America where that mindset exists, and as far as I can tell it is a quite common approach that most people have these days. Counter-arguments I usually face sometimes go along the lines of "without capitalism we wouldn't have ipods, playstations, computers, would you want that?" and I think that really shows their priorities (and how little they have actually thought about changing our economy). A lot of the times it just seems to be a waste of time to argue with these people as they are so convinced they will either become really rich in their future, or they are more than content with their consumerist lifestyle.

It's sickening and worrying.

Just shows you how successful this "American Dream" has been shoved down people's throats really.

[Adil3tr]

The American Dream makes sense because this country has so much, its property that they don't understand. The idea that they could have some of that doesn't register. The means of production "belong" to the rich. People need to understand that a planned economy can do whatever they people want, as well as the idea of the society of abundance under socialism.

[Adil3tr]

as well as how little the rich actually put in to obtain all that wealth, especially when compared to the average worker.

[XxKrebsxX]

as well as how little the rich actually put in to obtain all that wealth, especially when compared to the average worker.

Actually, what is most disturbing is how some of these celebrity brats (Paris Hilton, Kardashians, etc.) who have done jack shit except use their parent's/family's wealth are actually REVERED by some young people.

That is what is fucking sad.

[mcg]

The JP Morgan Chase Bank protest was largely directed at stopping foreclosures on houses in Detroit.

[Adil3tr]

Actually, what is most disturbing is how some of these celebrity brats (Paris Hilton, Kardashians, etc.) who have done jack shit except use their parent's/family's wealth are actually REVERED by some young people.

That is what is fucking sad.
well yes, but they are rich, the really enemies are the wealthy people who use their money and power to corrupt and accumulate endlessly. Paris Hilton is an idiot, but she's never robbed a family of their home or destroyed the dream of a retirement of thousands.

[9]

What we need in the US is a Labor Party based in the unions. I am more and more convinced that it is the lack of such a party that has kept the US left qualitatively powerless. With a Labor Party you would have a serious electoral vehicle for independence, and left politics wouldn't drift constantly toward the Democrats, that great "graveyard of social movements." Those who think they can get away without the step of creating a Labor Party can run socialist candidates until they turn blue but they'll never get more than a pittance of the votes.

I think electoral politics is a complete charade at this point and a dead end in general. I have to ask, though, how do you propose breaking the unions away from the Democratic Party? Tbh, that sounds as much of a pipedream as trying to elect "socialism" through the Democratic Party.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

I think electoral politics is a complete charade at this point and a dead end in general. I have to ask, though, how do you propose breaking the unions away from the Democratic Party? Tbh, that sounds as much of a pipedream as trying to elect "socialism" through the Democratic Party.

Unions are at least supposed to be democratic, so it's always possible for the rank-and-file to organize a takeover. Most US workers are non-union, so these unions don't all exist yet, but they can be built from the bottom up. And because Business is always waging class war on the working class, the necessity of unions is always apparent. I mean, the consciousness has to grow, but earlier this year some SEIU local in North Carolina proposed a break from the democrats, so the idea is there. If enough people come to the socialist conclusion, it won't be that difficult.

[graymouser]

I think electoral politics is a complete charade at this point and a dead end in general.
I think electoralism is a dead end, and the obsession of for instance the European left with election totals is fuct up. But independence from the Democrats is an imperative for any kind of mass working-class action to come about in this country.


I have to ask, though, how do you propose breaking the unions away from the Democratic Party? Tbh, that sounds as much of a pipedream as trying to elect "socialism" through the Democratic Party.
Well, it would have to come in a wave of renewed labor movement activity. If that does happen, the forces and pressures that could create a Labor Party in the US will be present. It was possible for a period in the 1930s (in the heyday of the CIO) to create a Labor Party, but groups like the Communist Party helped to directly sabotage any such possibilities and make sure that labor stayed tied to the Democrats, as has been their role for over seven decades now. Such forces exist, as material things, and can be broken in the right circumstances. Until we see an upswing in the labor movement we can't actually build a Labor Party, but we certainly can help lay the ground work for one once the momentum is there.

[9]

I think electoralism is a dead end, and the obsession of for instance the European left with election totals is fuct up. But independence from the Democrats is an imperative for any kind of mass working-class action to come about in this country.

I would argue that "independence from the Democrats" can only possibly be realized as a result of heightened working class struggle, rather than the other way around (and actually, you go on to say as much yourself).
And it seems to me that if a scenario should arise in which the working class reaches the truly immense level of strength necessary to create a viable labor party in the US, the levels of consciousness corresponding to that amount of strength will necessarily already be revolutionary. In which case, the immediate tasks for the class would be forming the revolutionary party, expropriating the bourgeoisie and establishing the class dictatorship, not building an electorally viable "labor party".
So I don't know, I just really don't see it as a possibility, and in the only hypothetical I can envision where it would be a possibility, it would be wholly undesirable and potentially even detrimental, assuming of course that our objective is communist revolution rather than Western European-style social democracy.

EDIT:

also



Originally Posted by Trotsky
The creation of a “Labor Party” in America could be provoked only by a mighty revolutionary pressure of the working masses and by the growing threat of Communism. It is absolutely clear that under these conditions the Labor Party would signify not a progressive step but a hindrance to the progressive evolution of the working class.

[graymouser]

I would argue that "independence from the Democrats" can only possibly be realized as a result of heightened working class struggle, rather than the other way around (and actually, you go on to say as much yourself).
And it seems to me that if a scenario should arise in which the working class reaches the truly immense level of strength necessary to create a viable labor party in the US, the levels of consciousness corresponding to that amount of strength will necessarily already be revolutionary. In which case, the immediate tasks for the class would be forming the revolutionary party, expropriating the bourgeoisie and establishing the class dictatorship, not building an electorally viable "labor party".
So I don't know, I just really don't see it as a possibility, and in the only hypothetical I can envision where it would be a possibility, it would be wholly undesirable and potentially even detrimental, assuming of course that our objective is communist revolution rather than Western European-style social democracy.
There are two problems here. One is that the revolutionary party is not on the agenda today, and an orientation to creating the party in the United States will inevitably lead to another sect. The other is that, when a Labor Party is on the agenda, trying to form a "revolutionary party" outside of it will mean that the leading forces will be out in isolation from the leading forces in the labor movement. I mean, if you actually got together the motley crew that is currently the US left into one big Leninist party, and then a Labor Party movement developed that they didn't intersect, you would wind up with an isolated sect.

If there were a Labor Party in the US, the role of Marxists would absolutely be to work to win it to revolutionary socialism - but the process would most likely intersect. In the mean time, it's the most productive transitional demand, as pretty much anything else can't even be contested aside from bedrock anti-war demands without political representation for the working class.

[Buffalo Souljah]

How can the left in America accomplish anything if we have people with that type of frame of mind? That's a good point. I think the focus of conversations like these is perhaps misplaced, unless the intent is to understand what the problems and shortcomings of progressive working class sentiment is/are in order to improve that sentiment. Perhaps this is the point in speaking-- of this I am not certain, but certainly we need to question the role of technology and "New Media" in spreading awareness and furthermore, in organizing disparate components of our national and international working class. What role will the Internet play in the lives of working class people? How can we achieve an international sense of solidarity? I see many examples of both the former and the latter, especially in cases such as this (http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2010/labotz280610.html), this, (http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=4292) this (http://www.pslweb.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=14123&news_iv_ctrl=1261) that (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-singer/and-the-children-shall-le_b_554903.html) and this (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/01/world/asia/01briefs-Nepal.html). If the left and the working class in general is made to see that it is not powerless against corporate and business interests, that organized action entails positive consequences, that is the only way to move forward strategically.

Yes, sectarianism, opportunism and internal divisions create rifts within the movement, but these are not things we must accept as permanent features of the landscape of left/radical/progressive movements as a whole. With the world economic crisis, the consistent erosion, stagnation and reduction of wages and benefits (http://www.workinglife.org/wiki/Wages+and+Benefits:+Real+Wages+%281964-2004%29) and the continued presence of neoliberal and imperialist domestic and foreign policy, there is great opportunity for criticism and strategic endeavors to present alternatives to the present system. And you have individuals like Martin Jay, Mary Gluck, Michael Parenti, Noam Chomsky, David Harvey, Christopher Hitchens and many many others, as well as international trade union (http://www.broadleft.org/anarchis.htm) and political organizations (http://www.broadleft.org/index.htm) that are gaining leverage in their respective spheres every day (see here (http://wikilution.info/index.php/Portal:Resources) for more).

I think the pitfall of contemplating the current state of the left in America is that, in doing so, we are undermining the fact that the structures and layout of our society are undergoing dramatic changes every day, and perhaps, in doing so "shooting ourselves in the foot". As "New Media" and other forms of communication advance, we are certainly more equipped to spread information and organize action today than ever before. I think to suggest anything different is to undercut the potential (latent though it may be) that exists in everyone's hands and on their desktop computers at home.

Solidaridad!

[Os Cangaceiros]

I think that unions are useful, but in the sense that Malatesta thought they were useful: a place for communists to be insurgents in, rather than forming explicitely communist or anarcho-syndicalist unions that are tied into parties, which I do think is a dead-end.

[Buffalo Souljah]

^^ Why do you think this?

[Os Cangaceiros]

Because I don't support fronts in the "political sphere" of society, i.e. support for political parties and/or parlimentary politics.

Also, I don't think the idea of large anarcho-syndicalist or Marxist/Leninist/Trotskyist-affiliated unions is very realistic at this time (in the U.S.)

[Zanthorus]

Explosive Situation: It is actually possible to form political parties which are dedicated to advancing their program through the political organs of the proletariat (Soviets) and not bourgeois parliaments.

[RED DAVE]

My belief is that as the class struggle heats up, those left-wing groups that successfully get involved and can provide local and eventually national leadership for the working class will grow and the rest will be left to count their toes.

This is what happened in the 60s and 70s when various groups began to "encounter" the working class again. Two of the largest groups, the CP and the SWP, basically fell apart due to their inability to do this. Maoist groups were largely ineffectual. A few tendencies, such as the international socialism gained a toehold in the labor movement which exists to this day.

(Ducks waiting for shit to fly :D)

RED DAVE

[Wolf Larson]

The state of the left in America will become more revolutionary as capitalism declines. quite simple really :)

[9]

Originally Posted by graymouser
There are two problems here. One is that the revolutionary party is not on the agenda today, and an orientation to creating the party in the United States will inevitably lead to another sect.I think you have misunderstood me. I have not claimed that forming the revolutionary party is on the agenda today - it is obviously not, as anyone who is not completely delusional can see. What I have said is that, at such a point as the working class has acquired the tremendous amount of strength necessary to build a US Labor Party, forming the revolutionary party will most likely already be on the agenda, rendering the creation of an electorally viable Labor Party superfluous anyway. So in other words, creating a US Labor Party is not a possibility today, and if it ever becomes a possibility, it will most likely be the least desirable option imho. You can say that 'we can lay the framework' or whatever, but I still think it is a pipedream.



If there were a Labor Party in the US, the role of Marxists would absolutely be to work to win it to revolutionary socialism - but the process would most likely intersect.Do you think this is the role of Marxists in the UK? I think any Marxist still working within Labour is probably huffing glue. Working within the trade unions in the US is a different story, though, imo. I think the part of the vanguard which is in the US is overwhelmingly in the unions (as the rank and file) atm, so I think it is ridiculous to refuse to try to agitate within them, as some anarchists and left communists will argue. But I don't think trying to agitate within them means having any illusions in the (im)possibility of 'winning over' the unions themselves or of using them as some kind of vehicle for revolution, or of breaking the union leadership away from the Democratic Party - I don't think any of these things is a possibility in this stage of capitalism.


In the mean time, it's the most productive transitional demandI don't think it's productive at all.

[gorillafuck]

Why?

Incidentally, "[your] generation" is not exclusively comprised of "petty bourgeois kid[s] in the suburbs"...

His mother was an elementary school teacher and his father was the inspector of public schools. Neither one was bourgeois.

this isn't my experience at all. Most workers and working class people I talk with are not "content" with the "current wage labor system" at all; they are being squeezed left and right, and they are hurting and painfully aware of it. As has been noted, there is a definite sense of hopelessness/helplessness. But this is something drastically different from just feeling "content", which very few workers are feeling.
You can't deny that Lenin grew up in a very affluent environment (though that's not much of a criticism, since he would have had to be a self righteous jackass to deprive himself).

Though very good post.

[graymouser]

I think you have misunderstood me. I have not claimed that forming the revolutionary party is on the agenda today - it is obviously not, as anyone who is not completely delusional can see. What I have said is that, at such a point as the working class has acquired the tremendous amount of strength necessary to build a US Labor Party, forming the revolutionary party will most likely already be on the agenda, rendering the creation of an electorally viable Labor Party superfluous anyway. So in other words, creating a US Labor Party is not a possibility today, and if it ever becomes a possibility, it will most likely be the least desirable option imho. You can say that 'we can lay the framework' or whatever, but I still think it is a pipedream.
The problem is that it wouldn't be an either-or situation once you got there. I'm not saying it's impossible but we can't build strategically based on the idea that the working masses will jump straight to wanting revolutionary communism, from not having a party of their own at all. What would happen then would be to form the "Marxist faction" or whatever, try and win it over from the start, and if they don't then either convince the workers from a minority position or get kicked out to form the revolutionary party.

The thing is, this is the nature of transitional demands - workers will hit the point "I want a Labor Party" before they'll hit "I want a Leninist combat party." It's necessary in order to be able to apply pressure to the union bureaucrats who otherwise say "We need electoral support" - because after all the Democrats wear "union-friendly" boots when kicking workers in the teeth. It's a method of breaking away the immediate consciousness of "we need friends of labor in office" from the Democratic Party.


Do you think this is the role of Marxists in the UK? I think any Marxist still working within Labour is probably huffing glue.
Well, at this point the British left is damned whatever they do. It's not like you can actually do much in New Labour, as the internal life of the party has been gutted, but nothing outside of it has gotten any traction. The UK left needs an orientation to other demands for the time being, I would think the current task is to fight against the ConDem government and its cuts. I don't think there's any productive reason to orient toward Labour at this point but it's entirely conjunctural and could change in the future.


Working within the trade unions in the US is a different story, though, imo. I think the part of the vanguard which is in the US is overwhelmingly in the unions (as the rank and file) atm, so I think it is ridiculous to refuse to try to agitate within them, as some anarchists and left communists will argue. But I don't think trying to agitate within them means having any illusions in the (im)possibility of 'winning over' the unions themselves or of using them as some kind of vehicle for revolution, or of breaking the union leadership away from the Democratic Party - I don't think any of these things is a possibility in this stage of capitalism.
It's possible to do good union work but the prospects are relatively weak. I mean, colonizing industry was a perspective everybody went through in the 70s, from the Maoists to the SWP. The only people who did it well were the International Socialists, but they didn't make any recruiting headway out of it (though to be fair that wasn't their intent at all). Still without the Labor Party slogan I don't think you can coherently answer "so why aren't you voting Democrat?" to the labor movement.

[Ele'ill]

There are a lot of comrades on here from the states, I was wondering if someone could explain the state of the left in the US - biggest parties/organizations, their acheivements, current struggles etc.

I know that USA's electoral system is deeply flawed and in practice only allows for democrats and republicans, but what gains are socialist and communist parties making in the wake of the recent economic crisis? With no media coverage and a society which, from my understanding, is still very segregated, it can't be easy.

Is there a large or perhaps growing anti-capitalist consciousness forming in America?

My opinion is that anti-capitalism is growing slowly but the people opposed to capitalism don't recognize their own position.

[Ol' Dirty]

So many people are caught up in the American Nightmare that mobilizing anything is nigh on impossible. So long as liberal capitalism can offer economic mobility, people aren' going to want anything else. The wealthy want to stay wealthy, the middle class (petit-bourgoise in Marx-speak) wants to become wealthy, the workers want to join the middle class, and the homeless/lumpenproletariat are too busy staying alive to think about the future. Fundamentally, the US is very hostile towards socialism and social democracy, and even Keynesian economic policies are verboten. (Thanks, Reagan :bored:) People seriously think that Obama is a socialist. :laugh:

Moreover, the left is fragmented and divisive, and those who were starting to question capitalism under Bush have been won over by Magical Black Man aka Barack Obama.

[chegitz guevara]

I disagree that building a labor party is necessary, or that the lack of one is what has harmed the revolutionary socialist movement in this country. A million people moved through the Communist Party in the 1930s, with no labor party. If the CPUSA hadn't been under the thumb of Stalin, it might have been more effective.

I see no reason to try and build a social democratic organization, and then try to burrow from within. That's working twice as hard to get the same results. If we can build a labor party, we can build a revolutionary socialist party worthy of the name.

[graymouser]

I disagree that building a labor party is necessary, or that the lack of one is what has harmed the revolutionary socialist movement in this country. A million people moved through the Communist Party in the 1930s, with no labor party. If the CPUSA hadn't been under the thumb of Stalin, it might have been more effective.

I see no reason to try and build a social democratic organization, and then try to burrow from within. That's working twice as hard to get the same results. If we can build a labor party, we can build a revolutionary socialist party worthy of the name.
Yet the CPUSA in the 1930s was precisely the party that kept US labor tied to the Democrats lock, stock and barrel. If the efforts then to form a labor party had gone anywhere we would be in a totally different situation.

The Labor Party slogan isn't actually a question of building a social democratic / reformist organization, as I've made clear above. It's a transitional demand, which in the current period is meant to highlight the pathetic dependency of the union bureaucracy to the Democrats. In a labor upswing, there would be pressure to form a Labor Party; the role of Trotskyists would be not only to work with this pressure but to say that it must specifically be a revolutionary party, that it must adopt a transitional program, and fight for this. They might not succeed immediately, but a bunch of self-satisfied revolutionaries off building their own "revolutionary party" during this process would not build either a revolutionary party or a reformist one.

Again, without the Labor Party slogan, you've got precisely nothing to work with when it comes to challenging the subordination of the unions to the Democrats. It's not like the SPUSA or SWP or any other tiny socialist party is about to win the electoral support of the labor movement.

[RED DAVE]

It's possible to do good union work but the prospects are relatively weak. I mean, colonizing industry was a perspective everybody went through in the 70s, from the Maoists to the SWP. The only people who did it well were the International Socialists, but they didn't make any recruiting headway out of it (though to be fair that wasn't their intent at all). Still without the Labor Party slogan I don't think you can coherently answer "so why aren't you voting Democrat?" to the labor movement.Yes, we did do it well. And there's a crucial lesson to be learned. The reason was that we took it seriously and went in for the long haul. As a result, there are still comrades from that tendency (Solidarity and ISO) in the labor movement. Some of the reform efforts that are just beginning to take place, such as in the Teamsters, are a result of what was done more than thirty years ago. (Yes, I know all about set-backs, opportunism, etc.)

Working inside the labor movement should not be viewed as a lark, or a summer project or something you do till your career starts. It's for life. Only a commitment on that level brings long-term results.

RED DAVE

[Delenda Carthago]

3 pages now all I see is people feeling depressed because they dont live in the perfect society where everyone has a class consciousness,dissing the "American Dream".

First of all,people, society of course it is gonna pass you by.Of course its gonna ignore you in the begining.Of course its gonna show no intrest when you talk to them about something that is counter to anything they have learned so far.So what?Keep the fight,keep making the best propaganda you can,keep informing them.That is your job.You cannot overthrow capitalism while its working.What you can do is making people know that there is another way.And when the time comes(like an economic crisis),thats your oportunity.

Secondly,I find it very disturbing when marxists declining that people are into "consumerism".Of course people will want nice shoes,nice clothes,mp3 players,laptops,anything.Dont you?Dont we want communism in order for all of us to live the best life that we can?Dont we need a system which can provide the best to everyone?

[Ele'ill]

I hope for a full systemic collapse.

[dearest chuck]

our way of life is non-negotiable.

[Stephen Colbert]

Pathetic.

I'm a minority. I live in a neighborhood that is crime ridden and most people's highest achievement is getting a $10.00 an hour job. My friends are all content and happy as long as they have their Xbox 360s, Jordans, IPods or whatever the fuck.

They all sincerely believe in the American Dream and that they will one day "make it" despite the fact no one around them has. Ever.

Best of yet, they all realize everything around them is fucked yet they do nothing nor do they care. Their attitude is "Why bother if nothing will change?". While I understand where they're coming from in that regard it's pathetic.

How can the left in America accomplish anything if we have people with that type of frame of mind?

I'm confronted with this mentality constantly. People would rather be apathetic and hope for a better future than actually become active and create a better future. People forget that majority opinion wins in democratic society.

Also the reason the left is in bad shape in America is because the most affluent industrialists and financiers in the world contribute to corporate propaganda and insane amounts of ignorant fear-mongering to uneducated working class people.

[Wolf Larson]

I hope for a full systemic collapse.

Falling rate of profit during a crisis of overproduction while Moors Law is broken and the credit system collapses! lol I'm hoping for a shift in social consciousness before that (total system failure) happens. Millions upon millions would die. I'm not sure a humane system could rise from the ashes?


I want a half way system collapse when a class conscious population is ready to step in and sweep the old away without half of humanity dying in the act. The earths population has skyrocketed because of capitalism and would (according to the Malthusian Growth Model) swiftly decline unless the same productive forces can stay in motion.

The timing has to be perfect- like when Indiana Jones (In Raiders Of The Lost Ark) had to switch the sand bag and golden skull because the room was booby trapped. Timing.

[Wolf Larson]

Yes, we did do it well. And there's a crucial lesson to be learned. The reason was that we took it seriously and went in for the long haul. As a result, there are still comrades from that tendency (Solidarity and ISO) in the labor movement. Some of the reform efforts that are just beginning to take place, such as in the Teamsters, are a result of what was done more than thirty years ago. (Yes, I know all about set-backs, opportunism, etc.)

Working inside the labor movement should not be viewed as a lark, or a summer project or something you do till your career starts. It's for life. Only a commitment on that level brings long-term results.

RED DAVE
I haven't found many fellow workers open to the idea of socialism. Within both the iron workers and carpenters unions i've been in most people want to maintain the capitalist system but are willing to fight for better pay, benefits and work place conditions.

It's a conundrum. This has just been my experience. The TV and radio are the dominant forces of information in most Americans lives and the capitalists control it. As soon as the TV and radio can be completely marginalized socialism will take a step forward. A revolution probably wont happen but a step forward non the less.

It's going to be interesting to see what the capitalists state will do when their normal avenues of propaganda become marginalized. This is why net neutrality is important as is getting internet access to the majority of the working class :)

There's so much to do it's not even funny.

[Atlee]

The Democrats are the problem, and progressives and "socialists" who run as Democrats help to continue the domination of the US left by forces that keep it loyal to the Democrats. (I am not referring to abstract "forces," there is a lot of money and effort and organized groups committed to keeping the US left at the feet of the Democratic Party.) I've had my own weaknesses toward the Democrats in the past but let's be honest, you aren't going to get anywhere by supporting a Democrat even if he's waving a red flag.

What we need in the US is a Labor Party based in the unions. I am more and more convinced that it is the lack of such a party that has kept the US left qualitatively powerless. With a Labor Party you would have a serious electoral vehicle for independence, and left politics wouldn't drift constantly toward the Democrats, that great "graveyard of social movements." Those who think they can get away without the step of creating a Labor Party can run socialist candidates until they turn blue but they'll never get more than a pittance of the votes.

No disagreement from me here. I know and understand what you're saying. What I am addressing is the status quo direction. I have met many people that did not even know there was or were socialist parties so talking beyond that was already lost.

I've never been a democrat so maybe there is something lost on me as well? What I look at is what the general media force feeds our populations and here we get a steady stream of DEM verses REP. I was going to run and wave my red flag, but clashes of personality and factionalism has hurt all of our chances. This is why I look at a Leftist or Unity groups to find those who work for social unanimity for guided direction.

[Atlee]

I disagree that building a labor party is necessary, or that the lack of one is what has harmed the revolutionary socialist movement in this country. A million people moved through the Communist Party in the 1930s, with no labor party. If the CPUSA hadn't been under the thumb of Stalin, it might have been more effective.

I see no reason to try and build a social democratic organization, and then try to burrow from within. That's working twice as hard to get the same results. If we can build a labor party, we can build a revolutionary socialist party worthy of the name.

In theory you are fully correct. In reality, people do not like sudden change and this is a scientific fact from several psychological textbook angles.

A common guerilla tactic is to chip away at the enemy by testing their numbers and resolve to complete their mission. A force of five can seem like a hundred give better ground and plenty of ammo.

[Pawn Power]

There are a lot of comrades on here from the states, I was wondering if someone could explain the state of the left in the US - biggest parties/organizations, their acheivements, current struggles etc.

I know that USA's electoral system is deeply flawed and in practice only allows for democrats and republicans, but what gains are socialist and communist parties making in the wake of the recent economic crisis? With no media coverage and a society which, from my understanding, is still very segregated, it can't be easy.

Is there a large or perhaps growing anti-capitalist consciousness forming in America?

Good questions. Sadly, revleft is a poor place to gauge the U.S. left. From my years of experience on this forum and in the movement, I have found the disparities between the two immense. While there are some very engaged revleft users who are involved in on-the-ground organizing, in general, the opinions expressed on the forum are not indicative of the wider movement within the U.S.

[Red Bayonet]

The state of the Left in America is this:
It is entirely infiltrated from top to bottom by US Army/police fusion cells.
It should disband entirely,and reform, complete with its own security service to keep the informants out.

[Imposter Marxist]

Do you mean JP Morgan Chase?And about what?

Attacking it based on foreclosures and exicitions its been doing. I'm with the party that does a lot of that over in Detroit, where the convention happened. We've made some progress and grown by doing this.

[Jose Gracchus]

The Democrats are the problem, and progressives and "socialists" who run as Democrats help to continue the domination of the US left by forces that keep it loyal to the Democrats. (I am not referring to abstract "forces," there is a lot of money and effort and organized groups committed to keeping the US left at the feet of the Democratic Party.) I've had my own weaknesses toward the Democrats in the past but let's be honest, you aren't going to get anywhere by supporting a Democrat even if he's waving a red flag.

What we need in the US is a Labor Party based in the unions. I am more and more convinced that it is the lack of such a party that has kept the US left qualitatively powerless. With a Labor Party you would have a serious electoral vehicle for independence, and left politics wouldn't drift constantly toward the Democrats, that great "graveyard of social movements." Those who think they can get away without the step of creating a Labor Party can run socialist candidates until they turn blue but they'll never get more than a pittance of the votes.

You will have to either a.) change the Constitution so you'll have an electoral system far less under the grip of Duverger's Law, or b.) build up a non-electoral or only sparingly electoral oriented movement until it stands a chance of splitting the Democratic Party at the leadership's, capitalists', and party machine's expense all at once. There cannot be more than two political parties under the Constitution of 1787, especially the anti-pluralist measures since the fall of the People's Party at the turn of the century. The only insurgent party ever to climb to power was the Republican Party. And it has a sympathetic region of the country, sympathetic capitalists and elements of the capitalist state to help its climb up.

[syndicat]

the Republican Party emerged out of the collapse of the Whigs over the question of slavery.

anyway, a "labor party" would be controlled by the AFL-CIO bureaucracy. and they are busy trying to organize the employers and pitch "partnership". why would they split with the Dems?

what's required is to rebuild the tradition and consciousness of militancy and solidarity in action, as had been developed in bitter worker fights between the end of the Civil War and World War 2.

the *local* unions in alliance with various social movement organizations may choose to defensively enter into electoral politics at various times and places. but the center of gravity shouldn't be there.

[BlackMarx]

There are a lot of comrades on here from the states, I was wondering if someone could explain the state of the left in the US - biggest parties/organizations, their acheivements, current struggles etc.

I know that USA's electoral system is deeply flawed and in practice only allows for democrats and republicans, but what gains are socialist and communist parties making in the wake of the recent economic crisis? With no media coverage and a society which, from my understanding, is still very segregated, it can't be easy.

Is there a large or perhaps growing anti-capitalist consciousness forming in America?
Let me give you some of my thoughts on this...

To address the first part of your question.

The Left in America, imo, is very anemic and weak. The radical left has allowed liberals (left-leaning moderates) to steal the position of the left (The disaster of the USSR also helped with this). For starters, ever since the age of Reagan, Democrats have embraced neoliberalization to stay politically relevant. The Republicans, having capitalized on white backlash from the radical left/civil rights era movements, have been able to take advantage of working class agitation among white workers over the increasingly limited job opportunities and declining real wages ever since the American capitalist system has reorganized itself into a highly technical, managerial arrangement that essentially is dominated by financial capitalist. Specula tion and technological development(and thusly, expansion in constant capital) has been pursued for economic purpose of serving the needs of Capital and the upper middle classes who have professions that have importance to the global market.


All of this, along with the large influx of Hispanic immigrants and other third world people's looking for higher wages; displaced by dispossession of their means of subsistence due to privatization and free trade agreements , and the recent phenomenon of reactionary religious terrorism from the middle east has created an environment in the U.S that has allowed the the American far-right to bounce back from grave.


Also, the glorification of rugged individualism and celebrity culture in the U.S, has created a generation of young people who are either A) apolitical and devout Jon Stewart fans, B) unprincipled, poorly educated moderates (No real political insight, only politically motivated by self serving issues (Abortion, Separation of Church and State, Gay Marriage) and charismatic politicians, and C) poverty/race pimping public figures using racial despair for their own gain, while pushing minority-nationalist Capitalist agendas (Al Sharpton, NOI's black Capitalism for example) creating a generation of apathetic/disillusioned/fame chasing youth. I mean the list goes on with what is wrong with America...


Personally, the problem also is you have a lot of dogmatic leftist who don't seem to understand, just yelling Socialism and Marxism are not solutions anymore. We need to make our arguments that the average American can relate too (Which is hard because the average American is fairly ignorant and intellectually conservative). Our radical vision is a bit hard for people to digest. America's endless optimism is part of our problem as well. I mean, you could write a book on what is wrong with left politics in America lol.

As far as the growth of anti-capitalist movements, there is some growth but its still meaningless in terms of the growth that is necessary to make a real difference. My organization, Democratic Socialist of America, has seen a lot of growth (About 10,000 in the last 5 years) and the ISO (the International Socialist Organization) has seem some growth as well. The Libertarian movement, a movement that is nothing more then over privileged/predominately-white middle class Americans who are socially conscious while equally sleepwalking, has been growing tremendously. American exceptionalism, rugged individualism, evangelical Christian fundamentalism, and white supremacy are the major hurdles and pillars of American society. AMerica is moving towards the right. The entrenchment of Capital, the domination of all facets of American society by capitalist class interest has proven too powerful, I think.

. I think the rise of radical/progressive political institutions is an uphill battle mostly because America is a thoroughly bourgeoisie society and would face an existential crisis from a powerful left wing movement, let alone the global economic catastrophe that is churning undernearth the surface.

[pierrotlefou]

25,000 plus spontaneously protesting against aggressive anti-union right wing policies is probably the best news the "left" has seen in a long time. We should not waste this revolutionary potential!

[Aurorus Ruber]

In my own experience, the state of the left here is quite bad, definitely anemic as the others have said. Unless one includes anyone vaguely liberal as part of the left, I can honestly say I know maybe half a dozen left wingers off line. Although it bears noting that I live in a rather conservative part of the country, namely the suburbs of a fairly conservative city in a quasi-Southern state.

I must admit that the enduring popularity of conservatism, whether among my neighbors or Americans in general, mystifies me. I can't for the life of me figure out why so many people, least of all the working class, hold capitalism in such high regard that they would aggressively protest even the mildest reforms aimed at helping them.

[Le Socialiste]

There are a lot of comrades on here from the states, I was wondering if someone could explain the state of the left in the US - biggest parties/organizations, their acheivements, current struggles etc.

I know that USA's electoral system is deeply flawed and in practice only allows for democrats and republicans, but what gains are socialist and communist parties making in the wake of the recent economic crisis? With no media coverage and a society which, from my understanding, is still very segregated, it can't be easy.

Is there a large or perhaps growing anti-capitalist consciousness forming in America?


The left here is, to my knowledge, not as sizable as other leftist movements around the world - but that's not to say it's nonexistant. The problem here lies in how Americans approach and participate in politics. Too often, I here statements such as "Liberals are leftists," "The Democratic Party is a leftist party, and as such represents the goals and aspirations of the left," etc., that are 1) misleading and 2) create a false understanding of the political spectrum. Not only that, but to those who are either uninformed or misinformed, the Democrats become - in their minds - a leftist bloc. When you have such a jumbled sense of what truly constitutes left and right, you end up sidelining those organizations and parties that actually do advocate policies and actions that fall under leftist ideology. Unfortunately (and I think this problem isn't confined to America), too many "leftist" groups have been co-opted into the capitalist/reformist system, which makes them - in my eyes - no better than the Democrats.

So what you have is a number of rather troubling obstacles to any mass leftist movement: the lack of truly revolutionary socialist parties, the reformist route taken by those that proclaim to be "revolutionary", and the absence of any true understanding of the left/right spectrum. The Dems and GOP are both rightist, pro-capitalist parties; but you wouldn't know that if you listened to half their memberships. The Democrats think their party is leftist, the Republicans think they're secret commies. Both are so far off-base it would be laughable (if the situation in and of itself wasn't so disheartening).

That all said, however, I do think there's room for growth. It's my belief that the movement for socialism is beginning anew once again. How this will all manifest itself is unknown - but it's there. Once people understand the limits of private Capital and its advocates, and see it for the sham it is - they will rise up. It won't happen today, or tomorrow. But it will happen. One could argue that it's happening right now in N. Africa and the Middle-East. Either way, we comrades in the States have a lot of work ahead of us.

[NewPartyTendency]

I thought the only purpose of the democrats were to turn corporations state-capitalist or publicly traded government owned corporations to stabilize the economy from future bankruptcy like the banks, health insurance and car companies. The companies would then try to pay the US Government back with money from stock market as would China.

[NoOneIsIllegal]

I thought the only purpose of the democrats were to turn corporations state-capitalist or publicly traded government owned corporations to stabilize the economy from future bankruptcy like the banks, health insurance and car companies. The companies would then try to pay the US Government back with money from stock market as would China.
I don't really know any democrats who support nationalization, except for the Liberals/Progressives who support universal healthcare. Maybe there are some ol' Keynesians out there, but neoliberalism and moderates seem to control the current Democratic party. No one is out there in congress yelling for public ownership of key industries. If anything, the current trend of democrats have been to help industries and companies have greater power and create monopolies, such as Clinton's Telecommunications Act of 1996.

[MarxistMan]

I think that the true revolutionary sectors in America willing to be part of a popular rebellion in America are the homeless, the very poors and the unemployed. Theoretically the working-class is supposed to be a socialist class who votes for socialist workers parties. But in most countries this is not the case. Because of a lot of factors like workers being to harassed and too mind-controlled in the places where they work among other factors.

But i've observed the behaviour of the working class in USA, like most low-wage employees and most of them don't seem desperate. It seems to me that TV brainwashing, TV mind-control and all that led the US workers to be very conformed to their shitty lifestyles of work, work, chores and no personal progress. I guess they conform to a life of basic need and pain, and not much else.

So i think that the workers parties in America will have to look toward the homeless, the lumpenproletariat, the people totally alianated like the illegal immigrants, the american indian communities, the black communities, the homeless, the gays, elderlies and unemployed, but not the stable high wage workers. who are happier than Bill Gates.

So we would have to look toward the people who are really really in pain in desperation and who are beating the bullets so much that they will be able to be great revolutionaries, but not bank workers, nurses, teachers and high wage employees of Shell, Exxon, Pepsi and many other Multinational Corporations where its working class are real happy and conformed and who even though are oppressed are conformed and are not desperate for change.

,

.






There are a lot of comrades on here from the states, I was wondering if someone could explain the state of the left in the US - biggest parties/organizations, their acheivements, current struggles etc.

I know that USA's electoral system is deeply flawed and in practice only allows for democrats and republicans, but what gains are socialist and communist parties making in the wake of the recent economic crisis? With no media coverage and a society which, from my understanding, is still very segregated, it can't be easy.

Is there a large or perhaps growing anti-capitalist consciousness forming in America?

[Diello]

in general, the opinions expressed on the forum are not indicative of the wider movement within the U.S.

Thank god for that.

[Davie zepeda]

Disgraceful, pathetic, Dis unified those who have genuine beliefs of bringing out change, i advise you to tred carefully when mingling with the American so called left parties if you wish to stay positive of an actual revolution.

[MarxistMan]

The USA is really a poor country. Wealth spreading has been a myth in America. Watch this great youtube video by Michael Parenti about wealth spreading:


wJLaRhTKzw8


There has never been an American dream, because the USA has been a rich country for a few, and a poor country for the majority of americans. one has to be a very conformist person to think that most americans are rich. How can most americans be rich when most americans do not have the most important thing of being rich which are owning means of production, a good college education and a super good health, a good physiology, good dental health care and high levels of emotional happiness and intelligence as a result of high education and great health.

And we all know that most americans are sick, there are high levels of cancer in America, diabetes, heart disease along with other lift threatening diseases. because health care services in America are almost prohibited for the majority of people. Only the rich classes can afford psychologists, dental care and most health services.

Americans can eat a lot, have a lot of cars and toys, but food, cars and toys doesn't make you rich. It's owning means of production, health and higher education.

And right now USA is worse than ever. The USA has too many problems at the same time, too many problems. I mean like the large internal and external debt, the collapse of the US dollar, a constant state of inflation increased prices of basic needs because of the neoliberal economic model and the printing of fake dollars by The Federal Reserve which is privatized and being owned by evil bankers.

Most media outlets in America being owned by right-wing capitalists. The basic needs and services privatized, owned by private corporations when basic utility services and basic needs should be in the control of the government.

Another big problem in USA is individualism, unfriendly behaviour, lack of social skills, lack of family values because of the violent individualist evil system, hatred and contempt for other fellow citizens and racism, even discrimination against obese people, against elderlies, against people who are different, and economic-racism mixed with classism. And lots of group-narcissism and family-narcissism (People who despise people outside of their group and families)

The Neoliberal agreements like NAFTA and CAFTA. The corrupt justice system which doesn't work at locking up neocons like Bush who did 9-11 and killed 1 million Iraquis.

The US government taxing americans to death to feed the war-machine, to feed the pockets of the fat pigs of the Military Industrial Complex. The Military Industrial Complex, the 800 military bases, the US government and US congress being controlled by the Zionist Power Configuration.

Obama doing whatever the capitalist congress and lobbies wants him to do, i mean Obama being a puppet of the capitalist class.

And of course the worst of all the concentration of 90% of the wealth of USA in the 5% oligarchic class, along with celebrities and baseball celebrities earning millions of dollars (When US dollars are a limited amount, and do not grow on trees) along with the wealth of nation being in the control of a few elites, instead of the wealth being owned by the government. and workers thru a system of nationalization of large undustries under state-control and workers-control. And many many other problems like health care being in the private-sector, when it should be owned by the state. And of course many many other problems.
.
..




The American Dream makes sense because this country has so much, its property that they don't understand. The idea that they could have some of that doesn't register. The means of production "belong" to the rich. People need to understand that a planned economy can do whatever they people want, as well as the idea of the society of abundance under socialism.