N Korea seeks $75 trillion in compensation from USA [Archive]

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Broletariat

25th June 2010, 07:46

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/06/24/2936414.htm

Cash-strapped North Korea has demanded the United States pay almost $US65 trillion ($75 trillion) in compensation for six decades of hostility.
The official North Korean news agency, KCNA, says the cost of the damage done by the US since the peninsula was divided in 1945 is estimated at $US64.96 trillion.
The compensation call comes on the eve of the 60th anniversary of the start of the 1950-1953 Korean War.
KCNA said the figure includes $US26.1 trillion arising from US "atrocities" which left more than 5 million North Koreans dead, wounded, kidnapped or missing.
The agency also claims 60 years of US sanctions have caused a loss of $US13.7 trillion by 2005, while property losses were estimated at $US16.7 trillion.
The agency said North Koreans have "the justifiable right" to receive the compensation for their blood.
It said the committee's calculation did not include the damage North Korea had suffered from sanctions after its first nuclear test in 2006.
I hope they don't seriously expect to be paid

Glenn Beck

25th June 2010, 08:11

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/06/24/2936414.htm

I hope they don't seriously expect to be paid

Why shouldn't they?

Broletariat

25th June 2010, 08:36

Why shouldn't they?
Because they're dealing with the USA

incogweedo

25th June 2010, 09:00

If North Korea is to be compensated, the people should be paid, not the government.

RebelDog

25th June 2010, 09:39

If they get the money I expect a 30,000ft high gold statue of Kim Jong-il will be commisioned.

MaoTseHelen

25th June 2010, 09:41

Stalinist extortion and little more. I'd rather they send the money to Cuba.

Leonid Brozhnev

25th June 2010, 09:49

Sorry, I've got to get this out the way

http://coto2.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/dr-evil2.jpg

In all seriousness... North Korea's lost the freaking plot.

25th June 2010, 10:25

Sorry, I've got to get this out the way

http://coto2.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/dr-evil2.jpg

In all seriousness... North Korea's lost the freaking plot.
When did it ever have the plot? :rolleyes:

Wanted Man

25th June 2010, 10:31

Yeah, what are they whining about? They were only bombed back to the stone age for three years and systematically isolated for six decades. Who gives a shit, right? Anarchyyyyyy lololol

25th June 2010, 10:43

Glenn Beck

25th June 2010, 11:03

Stalinist extortion and little more. I'd rather they send the money to Cuba.

Extortion? What the hell is this?

You people are something else; apparently the appropriate response to war reparation demands by victimized countries is paranoid accusations and right-wing Team America jokes.

Wanted Man

25th June 2010, 11:15

I never told NK to stop whining. I was just saying that it never had the plot :)

Juche in the streets, bro!

I wasn't quoting you, was I? I don't give a rat's ass about you or your worthless, unfunny and infantile posts.

Sankofa

25th June 2010, 11:22

Adi Shankara

25th June 2010, 11:56

This website never ceases to amaze me...how in the hell is North Korea "off the plot" for requesting reparations for decades of imperialist aggression?

I don't think the DPRK really expects the United States to pull out their checkbook, it seems to be more of a political statement, one in which they are correct.

I honestly think if tomorrow U.S. and ROK forces marched over the 38th parallel headed straight for Pyongyang, some of the biggest cheerleaders for the invasion would be on revleft.

After leading the first and only successful slave revolt in history, in 1804, Haiti was forced to reparations as a consequence for fighting for their right not to be slaves or colonial subjects to France.

Following the 1901 Boxer Rebellion, the Qing government paid reparations to imperialist countries, though they'd been pillaging and looting China for centuries, because the Boxers dared to launch a revolution to expel the colonial authority.

By the bourgeoisie's own standards, North Korea more than deserves what they're asking for. Once again, liberals align themselves with imperialist interests and suggest that it's strange for oppressed nations to request justice...typical.

I've come to the conclusion that North Korean affairs are North Korean affairs, and they should solve all turmoil internally. I don't oppose nor advocate the state; I'd like to see what becomes of it though once the Kim Dynasty disappears.

Adi Shankara

25th June 2010, 11:58

Further more, it seems the best way to create in-fighting and division shitstorms on Revleft is to start threads on:

*religion

*North Korea

*Hugo Chavez

and as I found out

*Pol Pot, lol

I guess it'd be nice to see if we agree on something for once on this website...but then again, I'm guilty as charged for fanning flames as well.

GreenCommunism

25th June 2010, 12:12

I've come to the conclusion that North Korean affairs are North Korean affairs, and they should solve all turmoil internally. I don't oppose nor advocate the state; I'd like to see what becomes of it though once the Kim Dynasty disappears.
yeah if we are dicks to north koreans about their country they will be on the defensive and say that we are exagerating, while the propaganda may be overwhelming over there, they are the one living under north korean condition. so they should know better than we do. the only thing that really preoccupies me is north korean leader's wealth which sounds impossible to have any idea about it. but fact is, kim jung il has the internet, and his people have some internet cafe. THATS OUTRIGHT UNFAIR.

Adi Shankara

25th June 2010, 12:30

yeah if we are dicks to north koreans about their country they will be on the defensive and say that we are exagerating, while the propaganda may be overwhelming over there, they are the one living under north korean condition. so they should know better than we do. the only thing that really preoccupies me is north korean leader's wealth which sounds impossible to have any idea about it. but fact is, kim jung il has the internet, and his people have some internet cafe. THATS OUTRIGHT UNFAIR.

I'd agree with you on this: to deny the fact that Kim Jong Il has a higher quality of living than almost all his countrymen is either to lie to yourself, or to be completely delusional...but that's not to say the premise of Juche in theory is a bad idea...I'd just like to see it actually practiced, I guess.

GreenCommunism

25th June 2010, 12:41

I'd agree with you on this: to deny the fact that Kim Jong Il has a higher quality of living than almost all his countrymen is either to lie to yourself, or to be completely delusional.
well i defend north korea so often, i won't let you get away with this, question is how much more. i don't think he can be compared to mobotu, but i think fidel castro has less than kim, however there are crazy accusations about castro and i cannot find any sources that are legitimate.

it is obvious that being part of the communist party means you have a better life though one comrade went to cuba and this was some of his impression on the people there. he also found it extremely ironic that communist comrades would have sex with prostitutes there for a low price and were actually bragging about exploiting their misery because of their superior income.

Glenn Beck

25th June 2010, 12:43

If you tap your heels and wish hard enough, even an isolated and impoverished half-a-country born in a horrific war that never technically ended could be a thriving democracy where weed is legal and everybody gets 3 square meals every day.

Anyone who disagrees with this proposition most likely thinks Juche is fantastic and believes Kim shits rainbows.

Adi Shankara

25th June 2010, 12:47

well i defend north korea so often, i won't let you get away with this, question is how much more. i don't think he can be compared to mobotu, but i think fidel castro has less than kim, however there are crazy accusations about castro and i cannot find any sources that are legitimate.

it is obvious that being part of the communist party means you have a better life though one comrade went to cuba and this was some of his impression on the people there. he also found it extremely ironic that communist comrades would have sex with prostitutes there for a low price and were actually bragging about exploiting their misery because of their superior income.

there is no evidence that Fidel Castro lives lavishly though; only the Cuban exiles seem to say this, but even amongst the people of Havana, they say he lives modestly for his position.

Obs

25th June 2010, 12:55

there is no evidence that Fidel Castro lives lavishly though; only the Cuban exiles seem to say this, but even amongst the people of Havana, they say he lives modestly for his position.
He lives in a palace. I still like him, though.

Adi Shankara

25th June 2010, 12:57

He lives in a palace. I still like him, though.

I thought they turned it into a museum?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_of_the_Revolution

25th June 2010, 13:23

I wasn't quoting you, was I? I don't give a rat's ass about you or your worthless, unfunny and infantile posts.
You said "Who gives a shit, right? Anarchyyyyyy lololo" - and I'm the only anarchist in this thread.

A.J.

25th June 2010, 13:30

A quite reasonable demand in my opinion.

I say we get a petition going and send it to Obama.:thumbup1:

scarletghoul

25th June 2010, 13:44

KCNA said the figure includes $US26.1 trillion arising from US "atrocities" which left more than 5 million North Koreans dead, wounded, kidnapped or missing.Why put 'atrocities' in quotes ? What the fuck else can you call the US actions which the article agrees left 5 million Koreans dead, wounded, kidnapped or missing. They do not dispute the scale of destruction and misery caused by the US, but just dispute that it can be labelled as an atrocity..

And yes those replies in this thread of "ohh those crazy orientals ! :laugh: what will they think of next" are pretty disgusting

Wanted Man

25th June 2010, 13:53

You said "Who gives a shit, right? Anarchyyyyyy lololo" - and I'm the only anarchist in this thread.

No, you're not.

Nothing Human Is Alien

25th June 2010, 13:58

there are crazy accusations about castro and i cannot find any sources that are legitimate.Is Fidel Castro one of the richest men in the world?

In 2005, American business and financial magazine Forbes listed Castro among the world’s richest people, with an estimated net worth of $550 million. The estimates claimed that the Cuban leader’s personal wealth was nearly double that of Britain’s Queen Elizabeth II, despite evidence from diplomats and businessmen that the Cuban leader’s personal life was notably austere. Forbes later increased the estimates to $900 million, adding rumors of large cash stashes in Switzerland. The magazine offered no proof at all of this information.

Of course it was all entirely bogus – the bunk methodology they used was based on the lie that Fidel Castro owns everything in the entire country of Cuba. Even in their article they admitted their “estimate” was “more art than science” — or in other words, bullshit.

Fidel’s response?

“PRESIDENT Fidel Castro has challenged and called on Bush, the CIA, the 33 U.S. intelligence agencies, the thousands of banks in the world and the ‘servants’ of Forbes magazine, which claims that Fidel has a fortune of $900 million, to prove that he has even one dollar in an overseas account.

“In exchange for just one shred of evidence, he said that he would offer them everything that they have tried and failed to do over almost half a century, during which time they have tried to destroy the Revolution and assassinate him via hundreds of conspiracies. ‘I’m giving you everything you’ve tried,’ he said, ‘and don’t come with your foolishness and wayside stories. Show me an account, of just one dollar,’ he emphasized.

“If they can prove that I have one single dollar, I will resign from all my responsibilities and the duties I am carrying out; they won’t need any more plans or transitions, if they can prove that I have one single dollar,” the revolutionary leader said emphatically.” – Granma newspaper

Later:

“Bush has not uttered a word and neither have the State Department, Congress or the CIA. Only the Nuevo Herald, a Miami newspaper, has tried to defend [the Forbes article] at the request of the Cuban-American mafia [the handful of rich white Cubans who left the country after the revolution because they didn’t want to be equal with the rest of the people]. This silence by the US Administration demonstrates the extent of its weakness.” – Radio Habana

Even the Miami Herald, a rightwing newspaper with ties to the Cuban-American mafia that is historically hostile to the Cuban Revolution admits that Fidel Castro lives in about the same conditions as everyone else in Cuba. The newspaper has previously printed articles in which it acknowledges that “The houses of Fidel and Raúl are large but simply appointed…. The living room of [Fidel’s] house is described by visitors as furnished with simple wood and leather sofas and chairs and Cuban handicrafts…. The only luxury visible to visitors is a big-screen television….”

Leonid Brozhnev

25th June 2010, 14:02

This website never ceases to amaze me...how in the hell is North Korea "off the plot" for requesting reparations for decades of imperialist aggression?

I don't think the DPRK really expects the United States to pull out their checkbook, it seems to be more of a political statement, one in which they are correct.

I honestly think if tomorrow U.S. and ROK forces marched over the 38th parallel headed straight for Pyongyang, some of the biggest cheerleaders for the invasion would be on revleft.

After leading the first and only successful slave revolt in history, in 1804, Haiti was forced to reparations as a consequence for fighting for their right not to be slaves or colonial subjects to France.

Following the 1901 Boxer Rebellion, the Qing government paid reparations to imperialist countries, though they'd been pillaging and looting China for centuries, because the Boxers dared to launch a revolution to expel the colonial authority.

By the bourgeoisie's own standards, North Korea more than deserves what they're asking for. Once again, liberals align themselves with imperialist interests and suggest that it's strange for oppressed nations to request justice...typical.

I'm sympathetic to North Korea, yet I feel actions like this just make the place seem more and more laughable in the eyes of the world, its not helpful for North Korea's image and is unlikely to get them much sympathy from anybody outside the Left. It's not insane to demand reparations, but demanding a large sum from a nation like the USA (even if you do deserve it) and expecting them to pay is a little short of delusional. Of course, It could be partly a political manoeuvre too, as you said, North Korea can't really be expecting the US to get out its chequebook and start handing over Trillions to a Nation that was only recently removed from its list of terrorist 'State Sponsors'.

Also, I apologise if my last post was insensitive/offensive, I should have clarified my stance a little better.

25th June 2010, 14:09

No, you're not.
Oh sorry, someone's a 'Libertarian Communist'. My mistake it's an ambiguous title.

GreenCommunism

25th June 2010, 14:31

The living room of [Fidel’s] house is described by visitors as furnished with simple wood and leather sofas and chairs and Cuban handicrafts…. The only luxury visible to visitors is a big-screen television…
The FUCKER has a big screen tv!!!. also should all communist leader sell the gifts they are given by other state leaders? for example, castro was a friend of Pierre elliot-trudeau which is a man who sent the army in quebec during the FLQ times (the FLQ were seperatist nationalist for quebec,and also socialist which glorified cuba) yet he was friend with castro.

kim jung il could receive gifts like this from north korean who live in other countries and simply not give them away. it is quite possible for a communist leader to simply live off gifts and be quite rich while not be embezzling money like mobotu, though i agree that in the case of north korea it sounds like a sect asking their member to donate money for the leader's birthday.

Obs

25th June 2010, 14:40

Hm, guess I was wrong. I do that occasionally.

the last donut of the night

25th June 2010, 14:43

If they get the money I expect a 30,000ft high gold statue of Kim Jong-il will be commisioned.

It's this bullshit that I'd rather expect hear over at Fox News than here. Are you serious? Have you ever wondered that maybe the media we get about North Korea has some propaganda in it? Have you succumbed to the general and racist idea that North Koreans are just mind-numbed Orientals, following the true leader because they can't think for themselves? Fucking shit, how about you see through the propaganda and actually start making coherent statements for once.

GreenCommunism

25th June 2010, 15:15

If they get the money I expect a 30,000ft high gold statue of Kim Jong-il will be commisioned.

actually i thought that was funny. but yeah, most prestige worked stopped in the 1980s( or was it 1990s?) because of the crisis they have gone through. and they are still going through it so a 30,000 ft high gold statue of kim jong-il is out of question.

Comrade Wolfie's Very Nearly Banned Adventures

25th June 2010, 15:21

Some irrelevant country does something stupid? I don't see why this has received attention from anyone but juchebags.

25th June 2010, 16:02

Sorry, I've got to get this out the way

http://coto2.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/dr-evil2.jpg

That pic totally summed it up.

Nolan

25th June 2010, 16:09

Stalinist extortion and little more. I'd rather they send the money to Cuba.

Stalinism: one of those words that means whatever the user wants it to, with no regard to said state's ideological ties to the legacy of Josef Stalin.

GreenCommunism

25th June 2010, 16:37

Some irrelevant country does something stupid? I don't see why this has received attention from anyone but juchebags.

usa asked 62 million for the pilots which were killed and their aircraft because the usa wanted to spy on cuba. was that stupid too? it was helluva more stupid than asking for reparation for war crime.

Sendo

25th June 2010, 16:50

Yeah, what are they whining about? They were only bombed back to the stone age for three years and systematically isolated for six decades. Who gives a shit, right? Anarchyyyyyy lololol

actually, just like with Vietnam, the South bore most of the brunt. NK also had more industry because it was useful in conjunction with Manchuria. SK has especially fertile land in the southwest, but NK needs to learn to cope a little better, birth control or something. I know they want to defend their state, but the militarism is practically suicidal since it drains the economy so much...something's up.

Guerrilla22

25th June 2010, 16:57

If the US knows what is good for them they will begin making payments immediately.

Sam_b

25th June 2010, 17:03

Some irrelevant country does something stupid? I don't see why this has received attention from anyone but juchebags

So a country that has been threatened time and time again by imperialist intervention, including escalating tensions with its neighbours and the very real likelihood of warfare is 'irrelevant'? 25 million people are now irrelevant to you 'comrade'?

Oh, wait a second: you're nothing more than a juvinile instigator who posts about 4chan isms and 'lets invade Stormront guize' and is nothing more than a waste of space on this forum.

mykittyhasaboner

25th June 2010, 17:04

Some irrelevant country does something stupid? I don't see why this has received attention from anyone but juchebags.

Your an idiot. Congratulations.

If the US knows what is good for them they will begin making payments immediately.

If anything they'll send them "Monopoly" money. That's probably their idea of a joke.

Comrade Wolfie's Very Nearly Banned Adventures

25th June 2010, 17:23

So a country that has been threatened time and time again by imperialist intervention, including escalating tensions with its neighbours and the very real likelihood of warfare is 'irrelevant'? 25 million people are now irrelevant to you 'comrade'?

Oh, wait a second: you're nothing more than a juvinile instigator who posts about 4chan isms and 'lets invade Stormront guize' and is nothing more than a waste of space on this forum.

Sorry did I get in the way of your serious business?

Sam_b

25th June 2010, 17:29

Thanks for proving my hypothesis of you having no politics, nor argument, and a fetish for 'memes'.

Comrade Wolfie's Very Nearly Banned Adventures

25th June 2010, 17:34

Thanks for proving my hypothesis of you having no politics, nor argument, and a fetish for 'memes'.

I like baseless accusations too.

Sam_b

25th June 2010, 17:39

It's not baseless though, is it?

Comrade Wolfie's Very Nearly Banned Adventures

25th June 2010, 17:42

It's not baseless though, is it?

Your evidence is two posts, from which you have sumize my political outlook, as well as an apparent fetish for memes.

Nothing Human Is Alien

25th June 2010, 17:45

actually, just like with Vietnam, the South bore most of the brunt.The north had 215,000 casualties, 300,000 wounded, 120,000 POWs and MIAs.

The south had 138,000 casualties, 450,000 wounded, 32,000 POWs and MIAs.

Keep in mind too that many of the people who died in the south either sympathized with the north or were suspected of doing so. At least 100,000 Koreans were killed this way by the government of the south.

Throughout the war hundreds of tons of bombs were dropped daily on the north. Over half of the cities there were destroyed.

"U.S. forces in North Korea would destroy most of its industry and agriculture, plus its transportation and communications grid. The ancient city of Pyongyang, the North’s capital, would be mostly destroyed by bombing..." - http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/episodes/a-state-of-mind/north-korea-and-the-korean-war/fall-1950-china-responds/1361/

Still, the north surpassed the south economically for a long time after the war. It wasn't until the 1980's, when the Socialist Bloc began to crumble, that the south pulled ahead. The north then lost all of its trading partners, faced famine and floods and came under economic sanctions.

but NK needs to learn to cope a little better, birth control or something. What?!?

I know they want to defend their state, but the militarism is practically suicidal since it drains the economy so much...What do you expect from a totally isolated bureaucracy with a million highly armed troops (U.S., ROK & Japan) stationed in and around the borders?

Nothing Human Is Alien

25th June 2010, 17:48

Sam_b

25th June 2010, 17:52

So instead of being baseless, you then in the space of a post state that it is indeed based on posts? Confusing. Not that I wish to disrupt a thread, of course, but okay:

Lets invade stormfront (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1779652#post1779652)

Shall we?

but they had pipes.

PIPES! THE MOST DEADLY WEAPON KNOWN TO MAN!

I am

over 9000

'Resonable' Is not a word to be applied to the NK leadership.

If any veggies had read animal farm, they'd know why we have to eat meat. The animals will overthrow humanity.

Well, since some Napalese moaist has called for revolution, i'll grab my AK.

Ha, the anarcho-trot conspiricy has come to fruition! we have closed the CC our evil grip on Revleft is complete

SIEG HEIL

Man, Africa, you are one fucked up place.

Please, Sausagefests are how real revolutionaries party

the FBI and CIA knew something was going down but 'failed' to tell each other.

the BBC said so it must be true!

I have a quote from stalin 'babies taste nice when marinaded in honey'

100% true

Comrade Wolfie's Very Nearly Banned Adventures

25th June 2010, 18:01

So instead of being baseless, you then in the space of a post state that it is indeed based on posts? Confusing. Not that I wish to disrupt a thread, of course, but okay:

Yes, that's how trolling works.

Broletariat

25th June 2010, 18:50

Why put 'atrocities' in quotes ? What the fuck else can you call the US actions which the article agrees left 5 million Koreans dead, wounded, kidnapped or missing. They do not dispute the scale of destruction and misery caused by the US, but just dispute that it can be labelled as an atrocity..

And yes those replies in this thread of "ohh those crazy orientals ! :laugh: what will they think of next" are pretty disgusting
Just so there's no confusion. I was merely quoting the article, don't shoot the messenger and all that. Wasn't sure if you thought that was me or the article just wanted to clear my name :P

it_ain't_me

25th June 2010, 19:10

this is just part of a nefarious dprk plot to get victors' justice when it clearly isn't the victor!

*calls self a leftist, gets really mad at a country which doesn't adhere to the time-honored niceties of bourgeois international relations*

Honggweilo

25th June 2010, 19:17

If the US knows what is good for them they will begin making payments immediately.

or else...

http://kalashniklobber.ytmnd.com/

:rolleyes:

Adi Shankara

25th June 2010, 19:28

The FUCKER has a big screen tv!!!. also should all communist leader sell the gifts they are given by other state leaders? for example, castro was a friend of Pierre elliot-trudeau which is a man who sent the army in quebec during the FLQ times (the FLQ were seperatist nationalist for quebec,and also socialist which glorified cuba) yet he was friend with castro.

He's still human. he's not automatically over greed just because he's a communist...but damn, he is definitely close, seeing as he doesn't live a lavish lifestyle nor does he have piles of cash lying around or in banks...

I think Fidel is quite honest for the most part. if you read "Fidel Says" in Granma, you'll see that he isn't the monster the US press makes him out to be.

Wanted Man

25th June 2010, 19:35

Someone mentioned the "wealth" of Fidel. I do always like that one. If he has $900M, where is it? On a foreign account? Then surely good humanitarian states like the US will do the right thing and freeze his assets. Or does Fidel keep it all in cash in a large building so he can dive into it like a porpoise, burrow through it like a gopher, and throw coins into the air to let them fall upon his head?

The best argument I ever heard about Fidel on Revleft was some grainy picture of his house with a wine bottle on a table. The user considered this conclusive evidence of the man's wealth.

Oh sorry, someone's a 'Libertarian Communist'. My mistake it's an ambiguous title.

Actually, a few anarchists posted before and after you, looking at user group membership.

Just because they are not Alpha Kappa who has a big red avatar and signature and makes 50 dumb troll posts a day to satisfy their demand for attention, does not mean that they do not exist.

So instead of being baseless, you then in the space of a post state that it is indeed based on posts? Confusing. Not that I wish to disrupt a thread, of course, but okay:

It's hardly worth arguing with the shit kids. I usually think that all members enrich Revleft in some way, but at any time, you'll always have around 5 users who make you less certain. Of course, the fact that they'll never amount to jack shit in their normal lives is worth considering, and a slight amount of pity may be in order.

the last donut of the night

25th June 2010, 20:26

Some irrelevant country does something stupid? I don't see why this has received attention from anyone but juchebags.

You're an asshole, I'm sorry.

Yazman

26th June 2010, 06:49

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

It blows my mind that almost not a single person in this thread realises how absolutely INSANE it is to demand seventy five TRILLION fucking dollars in reparations. There is no country in the entire world that would even be CAPABLE of giving that much money.

The supply of US dollars in the world as of November 2009 was reported as $1,999,897,000,000. The DPRK government is requesting 75,000,000,000,000. They are requesting 35 times the amount of US dollars that exist. Doesn't anybody realise that this sort of reparation would destroy the entire world's economy?

The entire global money supply is only a few hundred trillion (around 420 trillion last time I checked), and the DPRK government is "demanding" almost a quarter of the entire fucking world's money?

I can't believe there's people who actually jump to the defense of the DPRK with this as if 75 trillion is actually a legit request in any way, shape, or form. A few million dollars - hell, a few billion - thats feasible. 75 billion? Sure. Feasible.

26th June 2010, 09:09

Actually, a few anarchists posted before and after you, looking at user group membership.

Just because they are not Alpha Kappa who has a big red avatar and signature and makes 50 dumb troll posts a day to satisfy their demand for attention, does not mean that they do not exist.
My mistake, I was merely looking for a primary tendency or even a vague hint of anarchism in name, signature or user title. And two is not a few - especially when I could barely tell incogweedo was an anarchist with an avatar that looked like a Soviet flag.

You have a cat smoking a cigar as your avatar, what's your point? I make 4 posts on average per day. Not 50 and not all troll posts, either.

Thirsty Crow

26th June 2010, 12:43

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

I can't believe there's people who actually jump to the defense of the DPRK with this as if 75 trillion is actually a legit request in any way, shape, or form. A few million dollars - hell, a few billion - thats feasible. 75 billion? Sure. Feasible.
As someone stated earlier, it would be best to view this demand as a political statement.

Yazman

26th June 2010, 12:55

As someone stated earlier, it would be best to view this demand as a political statement.

Of course. Thats the only way anybody could view it without being a complete and utter laughing stock.

Blackscare

26th June 2010, 13:15

Of course. Thats the only way anybody could view it without being a complete and utter laughing stock.

I do think that the gesture would have been more effective had they used a more realistic number. The most realistic as possible, with perhaps some documentation/estimates to back it up. This would both serve to actually put in the minds of western people the scope of the damage done, and to not make them look so goofy. The western media takes any opportunity to make the DPRK look goofy, I don't see why they'd give them fodder like this.

Side note, why is anyone here arguing with a person with an "awesome face" as an avatar? That should be an insta-ban, if you know the internet at all you'll know that nothing but bile and trolling is going to come from someone with that symbol as their avatar. I really don't even get mad at the troll in a situation like this, I see it as a force of nature that you're stupid if you fail to identify and ignore. You deserve to be trolled by such a blatant troll.

ComradeRicardo

26th June 2010, 13:54

Sankofa

26th June 2010, 16:15

I do think that the gesture would have been more effective had they used a more realistic number. The most realistic as possible, with perhaps some documentation/estimates to back it up. This would both serve to actually put in the minds of western people the scope of the damage done, and to not make them look so goofy. The western media takes any opportunity to make the DPRK look goofy, I don't see why they'd give them fodder like this.

I don't mean to get snippy, but if anybody needs to be more realistic, it's you with this post.

Even if North Korea lowered the figure to an "acceptable" number, they wouldn't see a cent-- the chance they'll receive reparations is as slim as the chance the U.S. will pack up their imperial outposts in Asia and go home.

It's not a matter of having proper numbers, documentation or estimates.

We have documented evidence of the war crimes committed by the United States and France against the Vietnamese at My Lai and My Trach respectively. There's video footage of U.S. planes carpet bombing Vietnamese villages with napalm and Agent Orange and there's been no compensation.

It's evident that Iraq didn't have nuclear weapons and that the government disingenuously started an unjust war; and what's happened? Hundreds of thousands are dead and the U.S. military still occupies the country.

There is outstanding documented evidence that shows that Ronald Reagan and the CIA are solely responsible for the crack explosion of the mid 1980s. In order to fund their murderous counterrevolution in Nicaragua, they pumped drugs into Black communities and started the largest drug epidemic in the 20th century. Result? When Reagan died, he was hailed as a national hero, Oliver North's charges were dismissed and he was able to run for public office and got a TV show on Fox News.

I could go on, but I feel my point is made. The bourgeoisie don't care about evidence, only their agenda. It's part of that agenda to portray the DPRK (and by extension, anyone who opposes them) as "goofy" no matter what.

The "loldprk" attitude that is so prevalent here has spun out of control; anyone who has a problem with North Korea making this statement is acting in the interests of imperialism, period.

Boboulas

26th June 2010, 16:24

Fietsketting

26th June 2010, 16:45

"From my antipathy to any cult of the individual, I never made public during the existence of the [1st] International the numerous addresses from various countries which recognized my merits and which annoyed me... Engels and I first joined the secret society of Communists on the condition that everything making for superstitious worship of authority would be deleted from its statute."

:thumbup1:

Sankofa

26th June 2010, 17:02

Fietsketting

26th June 2010, 17:15

And this obscure quote contributes to this thread how?

Children that go to school and praise the Great Leader (or is it Dear leader?) just do not strike me as very revolutionairy.

The quote is from Marx by the way. ;)

Sankofa

26th June 2010, 17:25

Children that go to school and praise the Great Leader (or is it Dear leader?) just do not strike me as very revolutionairy.

The quote is from Marx by the way. ;)

This thread isn't about personality cults. It's worthless either way. ;)

Fietsketting

26th June 2010, 17:27

This thread isn't about personality cults. It's worthless either way. ;)
Its -always- about a personality cult in North Korea. :lol:

Adi Shankara

26th June 2010, 17:35

Its -always- about a personality cult in North Korea. :lol:

just for shits and giggles, we should overthrow the North Korean leader and replace him with revolutionary anti-Imperialist hero Bob Avakian, so he can lead North Korea to a glorious future of superiority under "New Synthesis" :rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvzREjeakrA

The tune is catchy, you gotta admit. if someone wants the tune, just ask me lol

Nothing Human Is Alien

26th June 2010, 17:41

Pyongyang, June 24 (KCNA) -- The Korean Central News Agency released the following report Thursday to expose all forms of crimes the U.S. imperialists committed against the Korean people up to now since their occupation of south Korea:

Six decades have passed since the U.S. imperialists, the sworn enemy of the Korean people, unleashed a war on this land, where they were leading a peaceful happy life.

The U.S. imperialists, chieftain of evils, committed the most barbarous and hideous crimes against the Korean people ever in the world history of wars during the last Korean War.

They committed thrice-cursed genocide, destruction and pillage during the war. They have regarded new People's Korea as a thorn in the flesh ever since their occupation of south Korea. They have persistently pursued an unprecedentedly harsh policy of isolating and stifling the system of the DPRK in wanton violation of the UN Charter and publicly accepted norms of international law, thus doing inestimably tremendous damage to it.

The Committee for Investigation into Damage Done by the U.S. to the Northern Half of Korea summed up all human and material damage brought by the U.S. imperialists to the northern half of Korea for the past six decades since they landed in south Korea on Sept. 8, 1945.
The total damages amount to 64 959 854 million U.S. dollars.

This calculation is based only on old records and official testimonies made by survivors. So it is presumed that there are much more damage that has not been ascertained.

The total amount will be incalculable if political, moral and cultural damages caused by slandering the sovereignty and dignity of the DPRK, destruction of treasures of lasting value including revolutionary sites, historic sites and relics and other precious cultural assets, infliction of moral pressure on the Koreans through the moves for a new war and threats of preemptive nuclear attack and vicious bourgeois ideological and cultural poisoning are included.

With nothing can the U.S. make full compensation to the DPRK for the damage it caused to the DPRK by impeding Korea's reunification after illegally occupying south Korea and, accordingly, inflicting moral pain and misfortune upon the Korean people for more than half a century-long tragic division and hindering the unified political, economic and cultural development of the north and the south of Korea.

The crimes committed by the U.S. imperialists against the DPRK are something beyond human imagination in view of their scope and protracted, barbarous and shameless nature.

The Korean Central News Agency releases a report on the newly surveyed and ascertained damage done by the U.S. imperialists to the northern half of Korea in order to disclose all forms of crimes committed against the Korean people and force them to pay for all of them.

Massacres aimed to exterminate the Korean nation
The most serious damage done to the northern half of Korea by the U.S. imperialists was the monstrous killing of a great number of peaceable inhabitants.
Since their occupation of south Korea, the U.S. imperialist aggressors had perpetrated ceaseless attacks, gun and rifle firing and terrorism against areas north of the 38th parallel in order to destabilize the new country for the people advancing toward socialism and nip it in the bud, thus killing or abducting more than 13,900 people before the war.

The shuddering massacre of civilians the U.S. imperialists committed in the northern half of Korea after igniting the Korean War was unprecedentedly harsh barbarism in wanton violation of international laws on protection of civilians in time of war and publicly accepted wartime laws and regulations.

At least 1,231,540 peaceful inhabitants were cold-bloodedly killed by the U.S. imperialist brutes in the northern half of Korea during the three-year war.

During their temporary occupation of Sinchon County, the U.S. imperialist ogres killed a quarter of the county population. The number of the people killed by them in the whole period of the war stood at least 401,940 in Hwanghae Province, more than 162,180 in South Phyongan Province, over 129,390 in Kangwon Province, at least 116,220 in North Phyongan Province, over 115,300 in South Hamgyong Province, more than 82,020 in North Hamgyong Province and at least 64,240 in Jagang Province.

The U.S. imperialist brutes indiscriminately killed more than 157,840 inhabitants in Pyongyang alone.

Another thrice-cursed crime committed by the U.S. imperialist aggressors during the war was the large-scale germ warfare strictly banned by international law and the massive use of chemical weapons, weapons of mass destruction.

From late January to late March of 1952 the U.S. imperialists dropped germ bombs full of flies, fleas, bugs, mosquitoes and other harmful insects in over 400 places in the northern half of Korea more than 700 times, thus spreading dreadful malignant and acute epidemic viruses including pest, cholera, smallpox and epidemic hemorrhagic fever.

The poisonous gas bombs dropped as part of ill-famed germ warfare and chemical warfare claimed more than 50,000 people in the northern half of Korea including 1,379 inhabitants in Nampho City.

The U.S. imperialists, in utter disregard of the international convention on the treatment of POWs, killed at random POWs of the DPRK side and even used them as guinea pigs, not content with maltreating them.

The American barbarians launched a wholesale man-slaughter operation, wounding more than 2,463,090 and crippling at least 294,020 out of them. They are now under the state protection with no working ability, their hearts burning with towering hatred for the U.S. imperialist murderers and the strong determination to take revenge upon them.

A lot of people were abducted or went missing after being taken in by the U.S. imperialist aggressors' propaganda amidst the war holocaust. This left an indelible scar in the nation's history.

Even after it signed the Armistice Agreement, yielding to the heroic Korean people, the U.S. committed non-stop military attacks, assaults, terror and sabotage operations against the DPRK on the eastern and western coasts and on the land and in the air, leaving more than 24,910 people killed, abducted or wounded.
The U.S. imperialists carried out a terrorist operation against an airliner flying in the air above the Caribbean Sea in Oct. 1976, killing DPRK officials working in the field of the external affairs. This stripped naked their true colors as murderers before the world.

The U.S. imperialists killed or wounded a total of at least 5,060,770 civilians of the DPRK: 1,247,870 killed, 911,790 abductees and more than 391,740 reported missing.

According to damages calculated by international practices, they total 26,168,823 million U.S. dollars: 16,533,396 million for the dead, abductees and missing people and 9,635,427 million for the wounded and disabled when taking their possible working years and expected earnings, interest for the compensation unpaid and change in the U.S. currency value into due consideration.

These damages, however, do not include damages for organized and group human rights abuses such as assault and rape of women which the U.S. imperialists committed regardless of whether they were aged or juvenile or pregnant during their temporary occupation of the northern half of Korea.

It is elementary conscience and obligation of human being for an assailant to apologize and compensate to his victim. This also serves as a moral basis for peace of humankind and sound development of the international community even in light of relations among countries.

The U.S., however, requested Cuba to pay an indemnity to the tune of 62,333,333 U.S. dollars for its each pilot who met a death after intruding into the territorial air of Cuba in the mid-1990s. But it has persistently sidestepped the compensation to the Korean people for indiscriminately killing Koreans, doing harm to their lives and health and destabilizing their life, far from uttering even a word of apology.

In fact, damage done by the U.S. imperialists to the lives of the people in the northern half of Korea is hideous crimes unprecedented in human history in the light of the territory and population of the country and unpardonable from international legal and ethical points of view. The Korean people, therefore, have legitimate right to force them to pay for these crimes to the last.

Indiscriminate Destruction and Plunder
The destruction and plunder committed by the U.S. imperialists in the northern half of Korea surpassed by far those committed during the world war in the light of their scope and savage nature.

Property damages done to the Korean people by the U.S. for the past six decades total 16,703,169 million U.S. dollars.

The material and economic damages were summed up on the basis of internationally recognized calculation method.

The U.S. imperialists massively infiltrated terrorists and saboteurs into the northern half of Korea which was alive with the construction of a new country after the liberation. Those gangsters destroyed 3,029 blocks of peaceful structures including industrial establishments and dwelling houses, devastated and burned 1,073 hectares of cultivated land and 1,630 hectares of forests and looted properties and household articles of citizens including more than 1,069 cattle and pigs and thousands of heads of other domestic animals, to say nothing of state and public properties.

Property damages caused by the U.S. imperialists in the northern half of Korea up to the period before the start of the war amounted to 20,281 million U.S. dollars.
During the Korean War the U.S. imperialist aggressors reduced the cities and villages in the northern half of Korea to debris, in breach of war laws and regulations banning attack or bombardment on peaceful cities, villages, dwelling houses and buildings by any means. This war represented a history laying bare the brutality of the U.S. imperialist aggressors and their crimes.

Blustering that they would wipe 78 cities of north Korea off the surface of the earth, the U.S. imperialist aggressors massively bombed and shelled the whole territory of the northern half of Korea and even used internationally banned napalm bombs and bio-chemical bombs, thus turning its whole territory into wilderness of cinders and ashes.

The atrocities committed by the U.S. imperialists on the ground and in the sea and air resulted in severely destroying 50,941 buildings of industrial establishments, 28,632 school buildings at all levels, 4,534 public health buildings including hospitals and clinics, 579 scientific research institutions, 8,163 printing and cultural institutions and 2,077,226 dwelling houses. 7,491 churches, chapels, cathedrals and other buildings for religious services disappeared. This brought the total number of severely damaged buildings to 2,416,407.

Railways extending 4,879 km, roads extending 4,009 km and bridges totaling 1,109 km and 1,489 locomotives, 4,803 trucks and 6,281 fishing boats and ships were destroyed, and 1,715 reservoirs and relevant facilities were blown up or destroyed, causing tremendous human, material and environmental damage.
563,755 hectares of cultivated land were devastated and more than 155,500 hectares of paddy and non-paddy fields lost and millions of domestic animals were slaughtered or looted including 369,101 heads of cattle and 764,604 pigs.

Valuable national cultural heritages were ruthlessly vandalized or looted: 40,755,640 volumes of ancient and old books, documents and data including ancient books listed as national treasures more valuable than billions of dollars were burnt or plundered.

The inhabitants in the northern half of Korea lost most of all their personal properties during the devastating war.

Everything in the northern half of Korea was so severely destroyed that the U.S. imperialists predicted that Korea would not rise again even in 100 years.

Property damages caused by the U.S. imperialists to the northern half of Korea during the war reached 16,661,622 million U.S. dollars.

This proves that the Korean war of aggression launched by the U.S. imperialists was the most barbarous and destructive war ever fought in the world history of wars.
In the postwar period, too, the U.S. committed ceaseless provocations on the land and in the air and sea. It systematically infiltrated terrorists and saboteurs into the DPRK to destroy or burn peaceful facilities. In this course it inflicted 21,266 million U.S. dollar worth of damage upon it.

After defeating the aggressors the Korean people built with dignity a socialist power from scratch in a short span of time by their own efforts. But unspeakable was the aftermath of the indiscriminate destruction of the DPRK's economic foundation by the U.S. imperialists before and after the war.

The U.S. imperialists' sabotage deterred the normal development of the economy. This caused a productivity loss of 10,896 million U.S. dollars before the war and 5,461,460 million during the war.

Availing itself of this opportunity, the DPRK has to state that the U.S. is obliged to pay for many crimes.

Even in the early period of building a new country after its liberation, the Korean people used a lot of raw materials, funds and manpower for rehabilitating reservoirs to supply a large amount of electricity to the south Korean people and full irrigation water to the area of South Yonbaek from the compatriotic step.

The U.S. military authorities, however, collected a fabulous amount of water and electricity charges from the peasants of the said area and other south Korean inhabitants but have not properly paid to the DPRK for them.

They also issued at random currencies amounting to nearly 28.7 billion won by taking advantage of the situation in which the north and the south used common "Korean bank notes" after the liberation of the country and made them circulate in the areas of the northern half of Korea. In this way they plundered it of lots of foods, aquatic products and large quantities of natural resources including fuel and raw materials, thus throwing a big hurdle in the way of the Korean people's building of a new society.

The U.S. imperialists also brought enormous damage to the northern half of Korea by conducting the bio-chemical warfare on a large scale to seriously polluting the ecological environment.

The poisonous substance and germ sprayed by the U.S. imperialists over the areas of the northern half of Korea inflicted big damage on the lives and properties of the Korean people and living environment.

In the postwar period, too, they massively sprayed defoliant in the areas along the Military Demarcation Line to contaminate the air and inflict big damage on the growth of crops and animals and plants of the DPRK side. The amount of damages done by them reaches 4 448 million U.S. dollars.

A long period was required and a fabulous amount of funds were spent to restore to its original state the environment destroyed and polluted by the U.S. imperialists.
For example, the DPRK government was compelled to disburse enormous fund for decades only to combat epidemic hemorrhagic fever pathogens spread by the U.S. imperialists during the Korean War.

The amount of economic damages caused by the U.S. imperialists' environmental degradation and contamination in the areas of the northern half of Korea reaches nearly 505,356 million U.S. dollars.

The U.S. can never evade the responsibility for having inflicted big material and economic damage and losses on the Korean people much bigger than those in the world war and laid serious obstacles to the social development and economic construction in the northern half of Korea.

Product of the U.S. Policy of Isolating and Stifling the DPRK
The U.S. hostile policy toward the DPRK is a policy of state-sponsored terrorism aimed at bringing down the dignified Korean-style socialist system chosen by the Korean people.

Since it divided Korea into two, the U.S. has ceaselessly committed all forms of war provocations, focusing on the moves to stifle the DPRK by force of arms.
The U.S. imperialists committed hundreds of thousands of cases in wanton violation of the Military Armistice Agreement as evidenced by the infiltration of their armed spy ship "Pueblo" into the territorial waters of the DPRK. They have escalated military confrontation and screwed up tension on the Korean Peninsula while getting frantic with exercises for a war of aggression against the DPRK under various codenames every year including Team Spirit, Foal Eagle and Ulji Focus Lens aimed at mounting a preemptive nuclear attack on the DPRK.

Their increased war threat laid big hurdles in establishing a new society and building socialism in the northern half of Korea and hindered the planned and balanced development of the national economy, compelling it to allocate huge additional funds.

The Workers' Party of Korea and the DPRK government were compelled to put forward the line of putting all the people under arms and turning the whole country into a fortress to cope with the U.S. moves for igniting a new war. They had no choice but to carry on economic construction and defence upbuilding simultaneously while directing big efforts to civilian defence training at all times. This did damage worth 2,380,186 million U.S. dollars to the economic development and the improvement of the standard of people's living.

The U.S. imperialists' economic sanctions and blockade have been the keynote of their policy to isolate and stifle the DPRK.

It has been subject to their most protracted and harshest sanctions and blockade in the world.

The successive U.S. rulers have persistently applied systematic and overall economic sanctions and blockade against all sectors including trade, finance, investment, real estate, insurance, transport, post and telecommunications and visits of people for more than a half century to isolate and suffocate the DPRK firmly adhering to independence under the uplifted banner of socialism.

The U.S. started slapping economic sanctions and blockade against the DPRK and other socialist countries after faking up the "the Coordinating Committee for Export to Communist Area" (COCOM) in November 1949. It has intensified economic sanctions and blockade against the DPRK year by year by invoking more than 20 laws including "the Trading with the Enemy Act" and "Export and Import Bank Act," all unilaterally fabricated in wanton violation of international law.

From the 1990s, difficult years when the socialist movement suffered a temporary setback, in particular, the U.S. formed the imperialist allied forces to totally isolate and stifle the DPRK, a socialist fortress, and left no means untried to achieve their purpose. All these moves were unimaginably vicious.

In July 1996 the U.S. cooked up such conspiratorial mechanism as the so-called "Wassenaar Arrangement on Export Controls for Conventional Arms and Dual-use Goods and Technologies" to replace the COCOM which collapsed after the end of the Cold War. It worked hard to totally suffocate the economy of the DPRK through the international sanctions by applying the above-said arrangement to every case.

The U.S. has become evermore reckless in its offensive for international pressure on the DPRK in the new century.

It kicked off a frantic nuclear racket after listing the DPRK as part of an "axis of evil". It listed the DPRK as a "sponsor of terrorism" after faking up fictitious cases. After running the whole gamut of sheer intrigues such as "counterfeit notes", "human rights abuses" and "drug trafficking" the U.S. prodded its satellite countries into knocking into shape and effectuating PSI and the "Regional Maritime Security Initiative" aimed at maritime blockade. Through this campaign for collective sanctions and blockade the U.S. escalated the pressure and blackmailing against the DPRK.

The U.S. persistent sanctions and blockade badly affected every sector of the peaceful economic construction in the DPRK. Damages are on the steady increase.
The U.S. behavior is indescribably base. It froze properties of not only state and public institutions of the DPRK but its citizens. It even prevented individual persons from inheriting properties and froze insurance money. Not content with this, it blocked remittance and prohibited the sending of parcels.

The U.S. most vicious moves to stifle the economy of the DPRK found their manifestation in the sanctions against trade and financial transaction.

It banned not only its businesses but its civilians from having any dealing with businesses and citizens of the DPRK. It put pressure on those countries, businesses and individuals having economic relations with the DPRK, disturbing trade. DPRK traders were subject to U.S. watch and control wherever they went.

These obstructions to free trading activities caused the DPRK to suffer enormous losses in export and import aimed at developing the nation's economy and improving the standard of people's living.

In case the DPRK banks settle accounts with those of other countries in U.S. dollars, the U.S. enforced vicious financial sanctions, unconditionally freezing the relevant funds at U.S. banks. This rendered it impossible for the DPRK to make any settlement in international markets, causing big financial losses in its business.

The U.S. is putting pressure on other countries not to extend any credit or give economic assistance to the DPRK and barring even individuals from making any investment in it. It is also pressurizing its satellite countries not to sell any new equipment or transfer technology to the DPRK.

Worse still, the U.S. did not hesitate to commit such piracy as seizing by force of arms DPRK trading ships when they were sailing in the open seas the free sailing in which is allowed by international law and confiscating their cargo as evidenced by the forcible search of its trade cargo ship "Sosan" carried out by the U.S. in the open seas near Yemen in broad daylight by prodding Spain.

The U.S. moves to economically stifle the DPRK and bring down its system found their vivid manifestation in the fact that it deliberately delayed and scuttled the provision of light war reactors and delivery of heavy oil, the hardcore commitments under the DPRK-U.S. Agreed Framework adopted in October of 1994.

The U.S. dragged on the construction of light water reactors and the provision of heavy oil, deliberately laying hurdles from their outset, and finally suspended both of the jobs which it had conducted for form's sake. This shameless action of the U.S. caused the power industry of the DPRK to suffer electricity losses amounting to astronomical figures and brought awful consequences to the national economy and the people's living after the adoption of the said agreed framework. Due to the U.S. delay in the construction of light water reactors and suspension of the provision of heavy oil the DPRK suffered the loss amounting to 1,165,008 million US dollars.
Immeasurable is the damage the Korean people suffered owing to the economic sanctions and blockade, the products of the U.S. hostile policy toward the DPRK. But the damages brought to light bring the total amount of the accurately estimated damages incurred by the U.S. to the DPRK for six decades up to 2005 to 13,729,964 million U.S. dollars.

The DPRK's building of a thriving nation was impeded due to the "resolutions on sanctions" the U.S. cooked up by instigating the UNSC, calling into question the launch of satellites for peaceful purposes in recent years and labeling the nuclear test conducted by it in a legitimate manner to defend the supreme interests and sovereignty of the country a "threat to peace." These damages are yet to be calculated.

The despicable economic sanctions and blockade perpetrated by the U.S. for more than a half century are the illegal and brigandish crimes and a wanton encroachment on the sovereignty of the state with no ground in the light of international law.

Nevertheless, the U.S. has neither compensated for such base crimes nor repented of them. It is defiling the inviolable dignity and sovereignty of the DPRK by faking up the case of warship "Cheonan" just like a thief crying "Stop the thief!" and working with blood-shot eyes to impose disasters of a nuclear war on this land.
The U.S. has used the nuclear issue on the Korean Peninsula for systematically isolating and stifling the DPRK, not for ensuring peace there. It deliberately derailed the six-party talks. Persistently sidestepping the peaceful co-existence with the DPRK, the U.S. is fostering division and confrontation between the north and the south and hindering the uniform development of the Korean nation, ceaselessly doing unspeakable damage to the former.

All these facts once again clearly prove that the U.S. imperialists are the vicious and barbarous aggressors, murderers, shameless wreckers of peace and the sworn enemy of the Korean nation.

The more reckless the U.S. becomes in its moves to hurt the dignified DPRK, far from apologizing and compensating for its crimes committed against the Korean nation, the higher the hatred of the army and people of the DPRK for it will mount and the stronger they will grow in their resolution to take revenge upon it. The provokers will get nothing but merciless destruction and death for their political and military confrontation.

The army and people of the DPRK who have grown to be matchless revolutionary ranks under the leadership of the Party and the leader will never pardon the crimes of the U.S. imperialists but force them to pay a thousand-fold price for them. They will bolster up the deterrent for self-defence in every way under the banner of Songun, firmly defend the peace in the Korean Peninsula and the rest of the world and build a great prosperous and powerful socialist nation on this land without fail.

Adi Shankara

26th June 2010, 17:42

come on man, break it up, that's alot to read lol

Adi Shankara

26th June 2010, 17:45

The "loldprk" attitude that is so prevalent here has spun out of control; anyone who has a problem with North Korea making this statement is acting in the interests of imperialism, period.

There is legitimate criticism of North Korea though; by saying "you're either with us or against us" is unfair, to say the least.

Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk

26th June 2010, 17:51

The only thing absurd about this is north korea expecting america to pay them, its a terrible tactic. They should have started with asking for something smaller.

Even though i agree the people of north korea deserve this money, i imagine it would only serve to turn kims family into a saudi-like monarchy.
Why should they demand something smaller? It's not even about tactics.

Cuba, NK, Iraq and all other places that have been victims of imperialistic oppression should make similar demands, based on principles.

Sankofa

26th June 2010, 18:07

There is legitimate criticism of North Korea though; by saying "you're either with us or against us" is unfair, to say the least.

:confused:

What part of my post did I say that North Korea was beyond criticism?

North Korea has problems...so what? I am not going to "lul" and dismiss an oppressed nation because I disagree with things that go on there.

just for shits and giggles, we should overthrow the North Korean leader and replace him with revolutionary anti-Imperialist hero Bob Avakian, so he can lead North Korea to a glorious future of superiority under "New Synthesis" :rolleyes:

also, what's up with your boner over bobby a? We get it: you don't like the RCP. You're still arguing with MRD on her web-a-thon thread and even started your own thread...yet you still can't shut the fuck up about him on a topic that's completely unrelated.

You seem to be the one who is the most obsessed with Avaikian and his new synthesis, not the RCP.

Adi Shankara

26th June 2010, 19:18

:confused:

You seem to be the one who is the most obsessed with Avaikian and his new synthesis, not the RCP.

no difference than you and your obsession with protecting dictators that make us all look bad.
you're the reason why communism is shunned today by most of the proletarian base in the mainstream--because they see idiots prancing around shouting revolutionary slogans, while at the same time they are buying into shit like North Korea because they like the socialist artwork, think the "revolutionary" music is cool, and hope someone would notice how "rebellious" and iconoclast they are.

face it. North Korea is a monarchy. you are defending a monarchy. you are a Royalist. Communism is good. North Korea is not communism. it is a monarchy. yet you say it's communism for only god knows what reason.

I like the North Koreans. I like North Korea. I do NOT like Kim Jong Il, nor his other royal court.

pray tell, how is it communism? or even socialism?

Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk

26th June 2010, 19:25

Adi Shankara

26th June 2010, 19:38

No one is defending the regime, or calling it communist. People just think north Korea has a right to demand compensation from imperialists.

They do; but it should go to the good people of North Korea to better develop communism, not to help Kim Jong Il buy more Cognac:

"... Kim's eclectic tastes and includes a sales figure from Hennessy that puts Kim's annual cognac budget at up to $800,000 a year." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/29/AR2006112900388.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/29/AR2006112900388.htmlThere)

There you go, straight from Hennessy HQ, he's spends 800,000 a year buying from them. what a paragon of Socialist virtue! :rolleyes:

Sankofa

26th June 2010, 20:16

no difference than you and your obsession with protecting dictators that make us all look bad.
you're the reason why communism is shunned today by most of the proletarian base in the mainstream--because they see idiots prancing around shouting revolutionary slogans, while at the same time they are buying into shit like North Korea because they like the socialist artwork, think the "revolutionary" music is cool, and hope someone would notice how "rebellious" and iconoclast they are.

face it. North Korea is a monarchy. you are defending a monarchy. you are a Royalist. Communism is good. North Korea is not communism. it is a monarchy. yet you say it's communism for god knows what reason.

I like the North Koreans. I like North Korea. I do NOT like Kim Jong Il, nor his other royal court.

pray tell, how is it communism? or even socialism?

:lol: umad?

You have a stunning inability to civilly disagree with other posters with out resorting to petty ad-hominems and name calling.

Feel free to quote where I said anything about Kim Jong Il or claimed North Korea was a classless society.

The only ones who look bad are infintile petty-bourgeois liberals, like you, whose poltical line seems to fluctuate on whether or not the positions you take up make you look good to the ruling class.

No one denies that the DPRK has serious problems, however, we also recognize that the source of those problems has come from 60 odd years military and economic aggression from imperialist countries.

In spite of those contradictions, communists defend North Korea as an anti-imperialist state and the social gains that do exist currently in the form of universal healthcare/education, collectivization, etc.

We don't ally ourselves with U.S. imperialism because we dislike certain aspects of how the country is run.

They do; but it should go to the good people of North Korea to better develop communism, not to help Kim Jong Il buy more Cognac:

"... Kim's eclectic tastes and includes a sales figure from Hennessy that puts Kim's annual cognac budget at up to $800,000 a year." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/29/AR2006112900388.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/29/AR2006112900388.htmlThere)

There you go, straight from Hennessy HQ, he's spends 800,000 a year buying from them. what a paragon of Socialist virtue! :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

It's a Washington Post article, it's gotta be true! Did you know that he injects himself with virgin blood and genetically engineers giant rabbits too?

Why not quote Forbes magazine while you're at it?

Adi Shankara

26th June 2010, 20:25

:lol: umad?

Really, How mature. didn't you thank a post chastising someone who relied on 4chan memes for arguments?

You have a stunning inability to civilly disagree with other posters with out resorting to petty ad-homs and name calling.

You used a bunch of ad hominems and insults yourself; don't take the moral high ground when you're pretty low yourself.

Feel free to quote where I said anything about Kim Jong Il or claimed North Korea was a classless society.

I don't need to. you imply it fairly enough when you accuse others of defending imperialism if they criticize the North Korean Monarchy. that says quite a bit in my book about your Royalist leanings.

The only ones who look bad are infintile petty-bourgeois liberals, like you, whose poltical line seems to fluctuate on whether or not the positions you take up make you look good to the ruling class.

Speaking of ad hominems...:rolleyes:

and no, I just don't like looking like nor being an idiot. The Ruling class overwhelmingly despises Castro and Ho Chi Minh. I admire both strongly.

P.S: at least I can spell what I'm trying to say...maybe you should use simpler words for childish minds?

No one denies that the DPRK has serious problems, however, we also recognize that the source of those problems has come from 60 odd years military and economic aggression from imperialist countries.

So that makes it justified for Kim Jong Il to pass on the crown to his son, and buy 800,000 dollars worth of cognac, and live like a king?

In spite of those contradictions, communists defend North Korea as an anti-imperialist state and the social gains that do exist currently in the form of universal healthcare/education, collectivization, etc.

Which communists? we can barely agree on the color of an orange, yet you think we all unanimously agree on North Korea?

We don't ally ourselves with U.S. imperialism because we dislike certain aspects of how the country is run.

Who is allying themselves with Imperialism? the only one doing that is you, since you believe that a monarchy is an acceptable form of government.

It's a Washington Post article, it's gotta be true! Did you know that he injects himself with virgin blood and genetically engineers giant rabbits too?

Why not quote Forbes magazine while you're at it?

What you just did...that's the definition of what is called an ad hominem argument. Rather than look at the quote (which is why I posted the article, so you wouldn't say I made up the passage) and go write an email to Hennessy to see if this is true, you attack the messenger. Again, real poor form for argument.

So are you saying that French-owned Hennessy is dumping 800,000 dollars worth of Cognac into the Seine river and attributing the bottles to Kim Jong Il? foolish.

BTW: since Obama is up for reelection in two years, should he call himself Communist to get your support? because that's all it seems to take to get you behind someone.

Fietsketting

26th June 2010, 20:26

There is legitimate criticism of North Korea though; by saying "you're either with us or against us" is unfair, to say the least.

In spite of those contradictions, communists defend North Korea as an anti-imperialist state and the social gains that do exist currently in the form of universal healthcare/education, collectivization, etc.

We don't ally ourselves with U.S. imperialism because we dislike certain aspects of how the country is run.

And you shouldn't ally with dictators in any way or form either but yet the Left is on the (virtual) barricades again. The way korea is being run goes against all your principles. Power to the people, not to the party! And certainly not into a dictator that wants his son to inherit the 'throne'.

Adi Shankara

26th June 2010, 20:28

It's a Washington Post article, it's gotta be true! Did you know that he injects himself with virgin blood and genetically engineers giant rabbits too?

Why not quote Forbes magazine while you're at it?

What you just did...that's the definition of what is called an ad hominem argument. Rather than look at the quote (which is why I posted the article, so you wouldn't say I made up the passage) and go write an email to Hennessy to see if this is true, you attack the messenger. Again, real poor form for argument.

So are you saying that French-owned Hennessy is dumping 800,000 dollars worth of Cognac into the Seine river and attributing the bottles to Kim Jong Il? foolish. They're a french company; why would they do that? wouldn't that actually hurt business if they knew their biggest consumer was a pretty hated King?

the last donut of the night

26th June 2010, 20:39

Adi Shankara

26th June 2010, 20:40

Let's take George Washington -- a rich slaveowner, who was known to treat his soldiers terribly, is seen as the mythical figure of the man that never lied, was nice to his slaves, and loved freedom.

Lol, that's not me; I got suspended for two days in 7th grade for referring to Thomas Jefferson as a "serial rapist who should've been fucking castrated". I still have that suspension review, lol

Seriously? what makes you think those who oppose the North Korean monarchy are somehow in love with the US government? you mean you can't be both against the US "freedom" mythology and the North Korean king?

Fietsketting

26th June 2010, 20:44

How come everybody in this thread that laughs and jokes about "worship" of Kim Jong-Il somehow forgets about the same kind of worship or adherence children in capitalist countries are taught towards their own leaders?

Let's take George Washington -- a rich slaveowner, who was known to treat his soldiers terribly, is seen as the mythical figure of the man that never lied, was nice to his slaves, and loved freedom.

You guys are ridiculous. It's amazing what the liberal left will do for the bourgeois media when it toots its horn on the despotic and brain-washing Oriental "hermit kingdom". It's really annoying too.

America is not the world, despite what you have been taught and hopefully broke free off. Your just proving our point that having a Great Glorious Leader of any kind is counter revolutionairy. As, in my opinion, is a vanguard party wich later on turns in exactly the same thing they tried to stop.

the last donut of the night

26th June 2010, 21:09

America is not the world, despite what you have been taught and hopefully broke free off. Your just proving our point that having a Great Glorious Leader of any kind is counter revolutionairy. As, in my opinion, is a vanguard party wich later on turns in exactly the same thing they tried to stop.

What you obviously didn't understand was not that I was defending Juche or anything like that. What I was pointing out is that a lot of members of this forum will be quick to denounce Stalin, Jong-Il, or whatever communist leader ever lived, under the guise of revolutionary qualities but will be very hesitant or forgetful to call out bourgeois leaders. It's the very common evasive argument to take as soon as the media attacks socialism: "Hey, I know those states didn't work, but that's not real socialism, I really promise you!" Revolutionaries side with the media and forget all the successes of socialist states as they try to cover their asses because it's just too scary to stand up to the bourgeois media.

I mean, if we're gonna call out Kim Jong-Il or whoever, we might as well call out every single aspect of capitalism, because our enemy will never relent in the fabrication of lies about our own history.

Sankofa

26th June 2010, 21:12

You used a bunch of ad hominems and insults yourself; don't take the moral high ground when you're pretty low yourself.

I didn't insult anyone until my last post when I was responding to your childishness.

I don't need to. you imply it fairly enough when you accuse others of defending imperialism if they criticize the North Korean Monarchy. that says quite a bit in my book about your Royalist leanings.

:lol:

You claim I support Kim Jung Il, but when I ask you to quote me even saying his name in any of my previous posts, you don't need to?

I'll ask you again to point out where I said that people can't criticize North Korea or where I expressed support for Kim Jung Il.

Oh wait, it's implied right? Stop trying to put words in my mouth.

Speaking of ad hominems...:rolleyes:

and no, I just don't like looking like nor being an idiot. The Ruling class overwhelmingly despises Castro and Ho Chi Minh. I admire both strongly.

P.S: at least I can spell what I'm trying to say...maybe you should use simpler words for childish minds?

:lol:

(gasp!) I misspelled a word! That'll hurt refute my arguments for sure.

So that makes it justified for Kim Jong Il to pass on the crown to his son, and buy 800,000 dollars worth of cognac, and live like a king?

None of those things is substantial. It hasn't been proven that Kim Jong Il does any of those things, except for sensationalist claims in the bourgeois media.

The ruling class says those same lies about Ho Chi Minh and Castro. I suppose those stories about Kim and cognac are as genuine as the ones claiming that Fidel has millions of dollars in foreign accounts?

Which communists? we can barely agree on the color of an orange, yet you think we all unanimously agree on North Korea?

I was generalizing to make a point.

Who is allying themselves with Imperialism? the only one doing that is you, since you believe that a monarchy is an acceptable form of government.

This doesn't even make sense. Even if I was a supporter of Kim Jung Il, how exactly would that make an imperialist? :confused:

What you just did...that's the definition of what is called an ad hominem argument. Rather than look at the quote (which is why I posted the article, so you wouldn't say I made up the passage) and go write an email to Hennessy to see if this is true, you attack the messenger. Again, real poor form for argument.

That wasn't an ad hominem; I was being sarcastic to point out how ridiculous it is for you to cite the Washington Post.

That crap about hennessy was been echo'd by other news agencies and there was no type of evidence to back it up.

So are you saying that French-owned Hennessy is dumping 800,000 dollars worth of Cognac into the Seine river and attributing the bottles to Kim Jong Il? foolish.

BTW: since Obama is up for reelection in two years, should he call himself Communist to get your support? because that's all it seems to take to get you behind someone.

What was that about weak arguments?

support for north korea against imperialist invasion =! support for kim jong il

And you shouldn't ally with dictators in any way or form either but yet the Left is on the (virtual) barricades again. The way korea is being run goes against all your principles. Power to the people, not to the party! And certainly not into a dictator that wants his son to inherit the 'throne'.

you and ts have failed to prove that I support Kim Jong Il

Dr Mindbender

26th June 2010, 21:14

id like to know what the DPRK plans to do if they dont get paid.

Its not as if they even have international backing on this one.

Adi Shankara

26th June 2010, 21:19

Its not as if they even have international backing on this one.

They have no international because the organized communists don't like traitors. simple as that.

Fietsketting

26th June 2010, 21:22

What you obviously didn't understand was not that I was defending Juche or anything like that. What I was pointing out is that a lot of members of this forum will be quick to denounce Stalin, Jong-Il, or whatever communist leader ever lived, under the guise of revolutionary qualities but will be very hesitant or forgetful to call out bourgeois leaders. It's the very common evasive argument to take as soon as the media attacks socialism: "Hey, I know those states didn't work, but that's not real socialism, I really promise you!" Revolutionaries side with the media and forget all the successes of socialist states as they try to cover their asses because it's just too scary to stand up to the bourgeois media.

I mean, if we're gonna call out Kim Jong-Il or whoever, we might as well call out every single aspect of capitalism, because our enemy will never relent in the fabrication of lies about our own history.

Look at that black/red flag in my avatar. I am calling out all forms of leadership but in this topic people state there support for North Korea against Imperialism so thats what were discussing. Fine. But indirectly there supporting a dictator who wants to place his son on the 'throne' after he dies. That has got nothing to do with socialism or communism in any form.

Fietsketting

26th June 2010, 21:27

support for north korea against imperialist invasion =! support for kim jung il

you and ts have failed to prove that I support Kim Jung IlWhy would we? I am simply stating that supporting the North Korea is direct support to the Glorious Leader, the incarnation off all thats good according to party propaganda? In my opinion you can't seperate those things. Same as people state that even when groups like Hamas are so openly homophobic and pay no attention to woman rights still deserve our support.

Sankofa

26th June 2010, 21:30

Why would we? I am simply stating that supporting the North Korea is direct support to the Glorious Leader, the incarnation off all thats good according to party propaganda? In my opinion you can't seperate those things. Same as people state that even when groups like Hamas are so openly homophobic and pay no attention to woman rights still deserve our support.

Okay...so if the U.S. invades Iran tomorrow, if we oppose the invasion, it automatically means we support Ahmadinejad?

Imperialism is justified because he's reactionary?

Sperm-Doll Setsuna

26th June 2010, 21:33

Why would we? I am simply stating that supporting the North Korea is direct support to the Glorious Leader, the incarnation off all thats good according to party propaganda? In my opinion you can't seperate those things. Same as people state that even when groups like Hamas are so openly homophobic and pay no attention to woman rights still deserve our support.

Why don't you be more of a useful idiot for the bourgeoisie-

I doubt it's possible.

Fietsketting

26th June 2010, 21:44

Okay...so if the U.S. invades Iran tomorrow, if we oppose the invasion, it automatically means we support Ahmadinejad?

Imperialism is justified because he's reactionary?

Fair question. You can oppose something without lending your support to a regime but thats a hard thing to do.

Example: Few weeks i went to have a look at a pro palastine demo in the Hague. I agree with the people there that the Israëli goverment and militairy are a bunch of murderers. When at the demo I hear cries to kill every jew, and wipe them off the face off the earth. And not a few people, hunderds. Then i step out of that demo.

I will not compromise my own integrity to support such groups but rather aim towards a anarchist workingclass or hell, even a communist instead of a religious based state.

Fietsketting

26th June 2010, 21:47

Why don't you be more of a useful idiot for the bourgeoisie-

I doubt it's possible.

Your tendecy speaks for itself. Follow that Leader! Sheep.

GreenCommunism

26th June 2010, 23:04

we just discussed how allegations of fidel castro's wealth of 900 millions are bullshit, and you go quote an article from the same kind of journal as definite proof of their corruption?

why isn't anyone *****ing that fidel castro gave the leadership to raul, this is monarchy too.

Few weeks i went to have a look at a pro palastine demo in the Hague. I agree with the people there that the Israëli goverment and militairy are a bunch of murderers. When at the demo I hear cries to kill every jew, and wipe them off the face off the earth. And not a few people, hunderds. Then i step out of that demo.
i feel you there comrade, i have been at a quebec independance rally not so long ago and i've heard many people saying anti-english things rather than caring about the end of our cultural and economical oppression. i don't remember how many times the speaker said they don't hate canada but want to separate, only the klu klux klan has to state how it doesn't hate blacks. because they obviously do.

It blows my mind that almost not a single person in this thread realises how absolutely INSANE it is to demand seventy five TRILLION fucking dollars in reparations. There is no country in the entire world that would even be CAPABLE of giving that much money.

The supply of US dollars in the world as of November 2009 was reported as $1,999,897,000,000. The DPRK government is requesting 75,000,000,000,000. They are requesting 35 times the amount of US dollars that exist. Doesn't anybody realise that this sort of reparation would destroy the entire world's economy?

The entire global money supply is only a few hundred trillion (around 420 trillion last time I checked), and the DPRK government is "demanding" almost a quarter of the entire fucking world's money?

I can't believe there's people who actually jump to the defense of the DPRK with this as if 75 trillion is actually a legit request in any way, shape, or form. A few million dollars - hell, a few billion - thats feasible. 75 billion? Sure. Feasible.

LOL well i didnt know that. the political statement then probably means that the usa can never repay north korea for the crime committed against them.

it_ain't_me

26th June 2010, 23:29

no difference than you and your obsession with protecting dictators that make us all look bad.

lolol.

if only the world's opinion of communism was based on revleft instead of north korea!!!

27th June 2010, 00:27

Fair question. You can oppose something without lending your support to a regime but thats a hard thing to do.

Example: Few weeks i went to have a look at a pro palastine demo in the Hague. I agree with the people there that the Israëli goverment and militairy are a bunch of murderers. When at the demo I hear cries to kill every jew, and wipe them off the face off the earth. And not a few people, hunderds. Then i step out of that demo.

I will not compromise my own integrity to support such groups but rather aim towards a anarchist workingclass or hell, even a communist instead of a religious based state.
Nice post and all, but please don't go around calling things "communist states". It makes you look stupid and doesn't do much good for your argument.

gorillafuck

27th June 2010, 00:33

Why shouldn't they?
1. Because the US obviously doesn't give a shit. Just because the US should pay them for what it's done to them doesn't mean it's a reasonable thing to expect to happen.

2. They demanded fucking 75 trillion dollars. That much money doesn't exist.

Hiratsuka

27th June 2010, 05:01

Seventy-five trillion dollars? Where on god's fucking green earth did the North Korean government come up with that figure when the world economy is only estimated to be worth 57 trillion US dollars?

Hiratsuka

27th June 2010, 05:14

BTW, Japan paid reparations* to Burma, the Philippines, Indonesia, and south Vietnam after World War II. Were all those countries also crazy for expecting them?

* This came after Japan's defeat, of course.

Considering the Japanese government paid about twenty-five billion US dollars in total, the comparison and stroke of guilt is unjustified. The United States taxpayers owe North Korea the entire world economy because of the Korean War?

Hiratsuka

27th June 2010, 05:28

Why put 'atrocities' in quotes ? What the fuck else can you call the US actions which the article agrees left 5 million Koreans dead, wounded, kidnapped or missing. They do not dispute the scale of destruction and misery caused by the US, but just dispute that it can be labelled as an atrocity..

And yes those replies in this thread of "ohh those crazy orientals ! :laugh: what will they think of next" are pretty disgusting

No one made fun of Asians, Koreans, or even North Koreans as a people. How terribly disgusting of you to even conjure up such petty insults.

Adi Shankara

27th June 2010, 05:31

No one made fun of Asians, Koreans, or even North Koreans as a people. How terribly disgusting of you to even conjure up such petty insults.

On the contrary, I'd imagine almost everyone here feels deeply for the people of asia...I can also imagine that people are sick of having these capitalist dictators/monarchs coming in, calling themselves "communist", and then turning the country into a private estate.

Where are the REAL communists like Ho Chi Minh, Liu Shaoqi, etc.?

GreenCommunism

27th June 2010, 06:08

ho chi minh turned over all the trotskyist in vietnam, but oh well.

i doubt that the whole world economy is 57 trillion in total. i think you mean GDP which is per year. as for those asking for justification for these number i think it is aorund 65 trillion or so, but for some reason changed for 75 trillion.

Cash-strapped North Korea has demanded the United States pay almost $US65 trillion ($75 trillion) in compensation for six decades of hostility.

The official North Korean news agency, KCNA, says the cost of the damage done by the US since the peninsula was divided in 1945 is estimated at $US64.96 trillion.

The compensation call comes on the eve of the 60th anniversary of the start of the 1950-1953 Korean War.

KCNA said the figure includes $US26.1 trillion arising from US "atrocities" which left more than 5 million North Koreans dead, wounded, kidnapped or missing.

The agency also claims 60 years of US sanctions have caused a loss of $US13.7 trillion by 2005, while property losses were estimated at $US16.7 trillion.

The agency said North Koreans have "the justifiable right" to receive the compensation for their blood.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/06/24/2936414.htm?section=justin

in no way i am saying that the number is reasonable.

scarletghoul

27th June 2010, 06:37

Where are the REAL communists like Ho Chi Minh, Liu Shaoqi, etc.?
The same Liu Shaoqi who is the forefather of Dengism ??

Nothing Human Is Alien

27th June 2010, 12:08

Where are the REAL communists like Ho Chi Minh..."...the Party cannot put forth too high a demand (national independence, parliament, etc.)... It should only claim for democratic rights...." - Ho Chi Minh, The Party's Line in the Period of the Democratic Front. 1939.

"In order to complete the Party's task....a national union conceived without distinction of class and parties is an indispensable factor.... [The communists] are always disposed to put the interests of the country above that of classes, and to give up the interests of the the Party to serve those of the Vietnamese people." - Central Committee of the Indochina Communist Party. 1945.

http://a31.idata.over-blog.com/2/84/53/29/lecler10.jpg

Ho Chi Minh with French General Leclerc de Hauteclocque toasting the accord reintroducing French troops to north Viet Nam.

"We are convinced that the Allies, which at the Teheran and San Francisco Conferences upheld the principle of equality among the nations, cannot fail to recognize the right of the Vietnamese people to independence." - Ho Chi Minh. 1945.

"The rights of property and possession of Vietnamese citizens are guaranteed." - Constitution of the Democratic Republic of Viet Nam. 1946.

"....this [south Viet Nam] regime must be overthrown and a government of a national and democratic union put in its place composed of representative of all social classes....Support the national bourgeoisie...." - Program of the National Liberation Front of South Viet Nam. 1960.

Nothing Human Is Alien

27th June 2010, 12:25

Liu Shaoqi

"....I propose that we adopt the principle of sending cadres or military representatives to such big cities as Nanjing and Shanghai to supervise private enterprises that have a vital bearing on the national economy and people's livelihood and whose owners cause trouble or move slowly. While it is not yet advisable to issue a general decree on the supervision of private enterprises, detailed instructions should be given both to those who are sent as supervisors and to the enterprises concerned. Full preparations must be made in advance. The situation in the enterprises must be sized up (we can have talks with the capitalists) and relevant problems clarified before the supervisors are dispatched.... In principle, the Party has no right to ban strikes by workers. But it must suppress the disruptive activities of capitalists and reactionaries in order to safeguard production. Naturally, where necessary and feasible, it is proper to assist capitalists overcome their difficulties in resuming work and maintaining production by helping them do such things as procure raw materials and establish markets." - Liu Shaoqi, Some Questions Concerning Urban Work. 1949.

"....The workers, for their part, say that the peasants have obtained land, and ask what they have received. Their wages have not been raised, nor their work-hours reduced and everything remains about the same as in the past. This is not entirely groundless either, but they should direct their attention to the future. Naturally, things are different with the workers in that handing the 'factories to the individual workers' cannot be allowed." - Liu Shaoqi, Some Questions Concerning Urban Work. 1949.

"Naturally, the masses of the people are not all alike and our work is therefore varied and intricate. In his respective field, each comrade must directly serve a specific section of the people, such as the workers of a factory, the peasants in a village, the staff members of an office, the soldiers of an army unit, or just a few individuals. All the various kinds of work add up to the common objective of serving the Chinese people as a whole...." - Liu Shaoqi, On the Party. 1945.

Fietsketting

27th June 2010, 12:32

To be honest, when i read this forum full of vanguard parties, stalinists and socialists and whoever, I have a great temptation to cry out "don't trust them!". ;)

scarletghoul

27th June 2010, 14:04

"...the Party cannot put forth too high a demand (national independence, parliament, etc.)... It should only claim for democratic rights...." - Ho Chi Minh, The Party's Line in the Period of the Democratic Front. 1939.

"In order to complete the Party's task....a national union conceived without distinction of class and parties is an indispensable factor.... [The communists] are always disposed to put the interests of the country above that of classes, and to give up the interests of the the Party to serve those of the Vietnamese people." - Central Committee of the Indochina Communist Party. 1945.

http://a31.idata.over-blog.com/2/84/53/29/lecler10.jpg

Ho Chi Minh with French General Leclerc de Hauteclocque toasting the accord reintroducing French troops to north Viet Nam. 1945.

"We are convinced that the Allies, which at the Teheran and San Francisco Conferences upheld the principle of equality among the nations, cannot fail to recognize the right of the Vietnamese people to independence." - Ho Chi Minh. 1945.

"The rights of property and possession of Vietnamese citizens are guaranteed." - Constitution of the Democratic Republic of Viet Nam. 1946.

"....this [south Viet Nam] regime must be overthrown and a government of a national and democratic union put in its place composed of representative of all social classes....Support the national bourgeoisie...." - Program of the National Liberation Front of South Viet Nam. 1960.
Yeahhh because a few highly selective diplomatic quotes really means more than the historical facts of what happened (defeat of 3 imperial armies and establishing a socialist country)

Hiratsuka

27th June 2010, 14:59

Nothing Human Is Alien

27th June 2010, 15:38

Yeahhh because a few highly selective diplomatic quotes really means more than the historical facts of what happened (defeat of 3 imperial armies and establishing a socialist country)

Who said anything about the outcome of the occupations of Vietnam?

We're talking about whether or not "real communists" put the interests of the nation above those of working class, whether or not "real communists" represent all classes of a nation, whether or not "real communists" sign agreements with imperialist powers to occupy the countries they live in because they have faith in capitalist democracy, whether or not "real communists" protect property rights, etc.

Adi Shankara

27th June 2010, 19:54

The same Liu Shaoqi who is the forefather of Dengism ??

Actually, I think that'd be "Deng Xiaopeng" who found Dengism, hence, it's called "Dengism" -__-

shows how much all the idiots who thumbed up your equally uninformed post know about communism. But see, that's what Mao and his clique did--he spread lies about his fellow comrades, in a bid so his fat ass could remain on the top of the party foodchain.

Mao is a deplorable human being, and a sub-par communist at best, and extreme authoritarian statist at worst--I don't see the fascination over him, aside that he fought the Chinese capitalists and contributed greatly to guerrila warfare tactics.

Adi Shankara

27th June 2010, 19:58

ho chi minh turned over all the trotskyist in vietnam, but oh well.

i doubt that the whole world economy is 57 trillion in total. i think you mean GDP which is per year. as for those asking for justification for these number i think it is aorund 65 trillion or so, but for some reason changed for 75 trillion.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/06/24/2936414.htm?section=justin

in no way i am saying that the number is reasonable.

He betrayed the Trotskyists, yes--but that doesn't automatically negate every other good thing he has done for the people of Vietnam. I'm not so blind as to see things one sidedly and to think that just because someone may have done wrong in their past, that all they have done was wrong.

no, weigh mistakes, judge each individually, but don't hold one comparatively minor event to judge an entire man's existence. that's insanity.

In regards to Liu Shaoqi, hey, it's better than rooting for someone who calls himself a communist while simultaneously living like a fucking king...I mean 800,000 dollars in Cognac a year? really? that's a communist to you?

Liu Shaoqi was a patriot. Mao slandered and lied about his character so much, it's impossible to seperate the facts and fiction, but that he is a patriot who fought colonialism...this I know.

Nothing Human Is Alien

28th June 2010, 00:04

Liu Shaoqi was a patriot.Is patriotism communist? Are communists patriots?

Hiratsuka

28th June 2010, 00:36

Like every great answer - it depends.

It depends on what patriotism entails.

GreenCommunism

28th June 2010, 02:21

I mean 800,000 dollars in Cognac a year? really? that's a communist to you?
i fucking hate you. this is such fucking bullshit i'm pretty fucking tired of you coming up with that one. yes i said fuck 3 times,now 4.

Obs

28th June 2010, 02:44

Kim Jong-Il's greatest crime is the one he commits against fashion every time he wears sunglasses indoors.

scarletghoul

28th June 2010, 02:50

Actually, I think that'd be "Deng Xiaopeng" who found Dengism, hence, it's called "Dengism" -__-

shows how much all the idiots who thumbed up your equally uninformed post know about communism. But see, that's what Mao and his clique did--he spread lies about his fellow comrades, in a bid so his fat ass could remain on the top of the party foodchain.

Mao is a deplorable human being, and a sub-par communist at best, and extreme authoritarian statist at worst--I don't see the fascination over him, aside that he fought the Chinese capitalists and contributed greatly to guerrila warfare tactics.
That's why I said 'forefather'; Liu was the leading "capitalist-roader" before the Cultural Revolution. He died, so his sidekick number 2 capitalist-roader, Deng, became the leader of the capitalists in the CPC. But in fact Liu Shaoqi was the leader of the initial attempts to create chinese capitalism, and thus can be labelled the forefather of Dengism.

I'm sorry I shattered your little world where the Glorious and Illustrious leader Kim Jong Il was leading the people's revolution and the Korean state to a new higher order while defeating imperialists, and not, as most claim, being a fatass who rapes little girls and drinks himself into a stupor every day.

but here, there are videos for "commie-chic hipsters" like you, who love to buy the bullshit, and are easily brainwashed with colorful pictures and cool, revolutionary music, while ignoring the Marxist message:

THIS IS DEDICATED TO GREENCOMMUNIST, FOR HIS BELIEVE IN HIS ETERNAL SUPREMACY, MARSHALL KIM JONG IL, GLORIOUS LEADER OF THE ETERNAL PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF KOREA, ROFLMAO

I personally think the word "troll" is overused on these forums, but you really do need to stop trolling. This is the most lame and worthless post I've seen for a long time. At least most troll posts can be slightly funny or creative, this is just a load of crap. :bored:

GreenCommunism

28th June 2010, 02:52

and not, as most claim, being a fatass who rapes little girls and drinks himself into a stupor every day.
your such a fucking idiot. grow the fuck up. claiming he's a pedophil is really bad taste.

oh i liked your pictures and videos too. neat. especially the one with the horse, it's so epic.

as for the cognac bullshit, why the fuck don't you believe the same crap said about castro? because you're a fucking hypocrit that's why.

gorillafuck

28th June 2010, 02:56

This thread has just become really, really dumb.

Adi Shankara

28th June 2010, 03:52

as for the cognac bullshit, why the fuck don't you believe the same crap said about castro? because you're a fucking hypocrit that's why.

Because there is zero proof Castro lives in luxury; there is plenty proof Kim Jong Il does.

stop raging, seriously, you're getting too mad over an online forum; it's just a stupid forum, don't take it so seriously. god. you're embarrassing yourself.

it_ain't_me

28th June 2010, 03:56

god. you're embarrassing yourself.

http://media.schadenfreude.net/2009/06/irony6.jpg

scarletghoul

28th June 2010, 04:01

There have been a lot of threads about North Korea recently. And for good reason; a lot of interesting things are happening there and it is obviously of relevence to international socialism. However every freakin thread about North Korea gets full up with these useless posts, and it's really sad because we could be having an interesting discussion :(

Yazman

28th June 2010, 05:12

I've had it up to here with this shit lately!

Thomas Sankara, GreenCommunism, It Ain't Me! No more flaming! No more pictures! No more spam! One more post like this in the Politics forum and I'm handing out infractions. Clean your posts up (delete the pictures, or I'll do it for you)!

This constitutes a verbal warning.

GreenCommunism

28th June 2010, 05:34

Because there is zero proof Castro lives in luxury; there is plenty proof Kim Jong Il does.

stop raging, seriously, you're getting too mad over an online forum; it's just a stupid forum, don't take it so seriously. god. you're embarrassing yourself.
the only reason i'm pissed is you claimed kim jung il to be a child molester.as for the cognac show me proof #1 that it is true, that the journalist didn't pick up some bullshit information without verifying it like they very often do #2 that said hennesey is not for the whole government officials and only for kim, nobody drinks alcohol in that country except him i guess. by the way 800 000$ of cognac in a year? i mean i know hennesey is expansive but i doubt it is more than 200$ a bottle. that means he drinks 10.95 bottles a day, great leader sure impress me with his constitution. even if it was 1000$ or 2000$ bottles it wouldn't make any fucking sense. he would be so fucking drunked out of his mind everyday he couldn't walk straight, he'll basicly be in a fucking hospital all the time. after a complete year of drinking 24/7 you are braindead man.

I've had it up to here with this shit lately!

Thomas Sankara, GreenCommunism, It Ain't Me! No more flaming! No more pictures! No more spam! One more post like this in the Politics forum and I'm handing out infractions. Clean your posts up (delete the pictures, or I'll do it for you)!

This constitutes a verbal warning.
sorry for falling for it, it just outraged me. do i have to clean my post? there is no picture in them? i mean ,do i have to do anything except apologize for wandering off discussion.

Edit: okay nevermind, i just realized it is quite possible to drink 800,000$ of cognac each year.
http://stylecrave.com/2009-05-01/best-cognac-10-of-the-worlds-most-expensive-cognacs/

Adi Shankara

28th June 2010, 07:15