Islamification of the United Kingdom

[Fictional]

Noticed this while on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=239nAA-f1x8&feature=related

I wanted to know what you all think about the 'Islamification' of Britain/Europe as a whole and maybe learn from it. Thanks ahead.

[Devrim]

Noticed this while on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=239nAA-f1x8&feature=related

I wanted to know what you all think about the 'Islamification' of Britain/Europe as a whole and maybe learn from it. Thanks ahead.

There is no 'Islamisiation' of the UK. Muslims are a small mimority making up less than 3% of the population:


The vast majority of Muslims in the UK live in England and Wales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_and_Wales): of 1,591,000 Muslims recorded at the 2001 Census,[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom#cite_note-5) 1,536,015 were living in England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England) and Wales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales),[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom#cite_note-6) where they form 3% of the population; 42,557 were living in Scotland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland), forming 0.84% of the population[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom#cite_note-7); and 1,943 were living in Northern Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland).[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom#cite_note-8) For details of Islam in each country, see:

Devrim

[Fictional]

But what about the Youtube I posted? I was speaking to some people who were out-raged by the amount of Halal meat outlets, It doesn't bother me personally because I don't eat take-aways - but what I do find annoying is how Clerics are allowed to preach openly on streets about Islamification and Extremism, trying to tell people Allah is best, etc, etc

[Leonid Brozhnev]

Fox News? Really? I expect them to give a valid critique of social issues as much as I expect the Kraken to rise out of my Toilet and give me a lecture on existentialism.

Still... what the fuck happened to freedom of choice Faux News? Can this guy not opt out of a job he doesn't want to do? Typical right-wing hypocritical bullshit. It doesn't mean the Police force would send him home to put his feet up, he'd be sent to clobber somebody else over the head with his truncheon.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

"Islamisation" doesn't exist except as a dog-whistle racist term for "brown people".

[Lampang]

I'm not sure when the Fox - fuck me, first the Mail, now Fox. I think I might be forced to defect to the Young Tories website for a better choice of media - was made but that link was posted in April 2010. By using my unparalleled research abilities, I was able to find out that this actually happened in 2006 and, according to The Independent (and you can make of that what you will)


Deputy Commissioner Paul Stephenson strongly denied reports that the constable had been moved from the two-hour guard duty for political reasons or because he asked for permission not to work at the embassy because he objected to the bombing of Lebanon.

Mr Stephenson said: "This is not about political correctness. I want to make it clear that this decision was taken on the basis of risk and safety." He added: "At the height of the Israeli/Lebanon conflict in August this year, the officer made his managers aware of his personal concerns, which included that he had Lebanese family members.

"While the Israeli Embassy is not his normal posting, in view of the possibility that he could be deployed there, a risk assessment was undertaken, which is normal practice.

It was as a result of this assessment - and not because of the officer's personal views whatever they might have been - that the decision was taken."Or if you prefer The Guardian:


The Muslim police officer at the centre of a row over his exemption from guarding the Israeli embassy in London feared being targeted by Islamist extremists, it was claimed last night.

As the Metropolitan police commissioner, Sir Ian Blair, ordered an inquiry into the exemption, PC Alexander Omar Basha's superiors were forced to explain their decision that he was not "emotionally equipped" to be on armed duty at the embassy during the recent Israeli-Lebanese conflict.

The constable, whose wife is from Lebanon and has relatives there, works in the Metropolitan police diplomatic protection group. He has never been stationed at the Israeli embassy, but requested during the summer that he not be sent there because of his family background and concerns for his safety.

Muslim police representatives said PC Basha was worried that he might be the focus of groups such as al-Muhajiroun and al-Ghurabaa.Or if that's not to your taste, there's always Militant Islam Monitor:


Top Muslim Cop in UK refuses to guard Israeli Embassy in London "beginning of the end for British policing"

Ian Blair had gone beyond PC to dhimmitude

[Devrim]

But what about the Youtube I posted?

I couldn't watch it, sorry. Youtube is banned in this country.


I was speaking to some people who were out-raged by the amount of Halal meat outlets,

Do you mean like Domino's Pizza or KFC? Or do you mean the small butchers shops? I don't really think there are that many at all.


It doesn't bother me personally because I don't eat take-aways

Halal meat doesn't mean takeaways. It is meat that has been killed according to Islamic religious law. -


but what I do find annoying is how Clerics are allowed to preach openly on streets about Islamification and Extremism, trying to tell people Allah is best, etc, etc

When I lived in the UK , and I also lived in areas with a relatively high proportion of Muslims, I had far more Christians knocking on my door to tell me about God than I ever saw Imams preaching in the streets.

Devrim

[Fictional]

Thanks all, in no way do I disagree with any of you, may I just make that clear - just wanted to hear the opinions of my comrades.

[Fictional]

I couldn't watch it, sorry. Youtube is banned in this country.
That's a bit sadistic, why do they not allow you to use Youtube?




Do you mean like Domino's Pizza or KFC? Or do you mean the small butchers shops? I don't really think there are that many at all.

I know almost 90% of the Butchers and Take-aways in my city serve Halal meat, I'm un-aware of anywhere else. This may of been my own mistake in which I assumed all Halal vendors are infact Muslim, a big mistake on my behalf, but I'm yet to see anywhere that sells it.



Halal meat doesn't mean takeaways. It is meat that has been killed according to Islamic religious law. -
There's a huge majority in my city in which all Takeaways sell Halal meat, mostly run my people of Islamic faith, which is why multiculturilism is huge in this area, I think people are offended that it's killed their way, but it's not exactly an argument to suggest people who protest this are protesting against it because they can, most of them don't know how the rest of the food they eat is killed and probably don't care.




When I lived in the UK , and I also lived in areas with a relatively high proportion of Muslims, I had far more Christians knocking on my door to tell me about God than I ever saw Imams preaching in the streets.
I understand, I live if a area embedded with poverty, so all preachers stay away from this particular area, I think I recall 2-3 Christians knocking in a time period of 5 years? I remember seeing an article in which a Muslim Cleric was openly preaching on the streets, I do believe this is wrong, but I believe all religions are absurd.

[Leonid Brozhnev]

When I lived in the UK , and I also lived in areas with a relatively high proportion of Muslims, I had far more Christians knocking on my door to tell me about God than I ever saw Imams preaching in the streets.

This. I'm in the exact same situation... large proportion of Muslims, not an Imam in sight, but I get Christians knocking on my door every month wishing me to attend some kind of pointless service at some church I've never heard of.
I see Muslims all the time, I'm sure most of us do. Going about their daily lives, going to work, going to Uni, in the stores, driving cars, attending prayer at the Mosque... singling them out is pathetic, they're just people, they're not here to oppress you or destroy you. Of course there are crazies, but there's crazies in almost any group of people... if history has taught us anything, it's White Christians that take countries over and subject the natives to their oppressive culture.

[Devrim]

That's a bit sadistic, why do they not allow you to use Youtube?

It is banned because of a video insulting Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, the first President of Turkey. Of course it is possible to access it through a tunnel, but not to follow links.


I know almost 90% of the Butchers and Take-aways in my city serve Halal meat, I'm un-aware of anywhere else. This may of been my own mistake in which I assumed all Halal vendors are infact Muslim, a big mistake on my behalf, but I'm yet to see anywhere that sells it.

KFC sells Halal meat. I don't think that is particularly Muslim.


I think people are offended that it's killed their way, but it's not exactly an argument to suggest people who protest this are protesting against it because they can, most of them don't know how the rest of the food they eat is killed and probably don't care.

Right because non-halal meat is killed in a kind humane way, where animals are gently put to sleep whilst being played soothing lullabies. I used to work in a (non-halal) chicken factory on the line, and I can assure you it is not.


I understand, I live if a area embedded with poverty, so all preachers stay away from this particular area, I think I recall 2-3 Christians knocking in a time period of 5 years? I remember seeing an article in which a Muslim Cleric was openly preaching on the streets, I do believe this is wrong, but I believe all religions are absurd.

So compared to the two or three Christians you have had knocking on your door, how many Muslims have done it? You mention seeing an article where an Imam was preaching in the streets, but how many have you seen actually do it?

I also think that you are quite lucky if the Jehovah's and their like have only been to your house two or three times in the last five years.

Devrim

[counterblast]

He objects to guarding the Isreali embassy on moral grounds?

As if he had morals.

How about objecting to work for a racist, criminal justice system on moral grounds???

[Wanted Man]

Noticed this while on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=239nAA-f1x8&feature=related

I wanted to know what you all think about the 'Islamification' of Britain/Europe as a whole and maybe learn from it. Thanks ahead.

To be honest, I think it's like your user name.


I know almost 90% of the Butchers and Take-aways in my city serve Halal meat, I'm un-aware of anywhere else. This may of been my own mistake in which I assumed all Halal vendors are infact Muslim, a big mistake on my behalf, but I'm yet to see anywhere that sells it.

There's a huge majority in my city in which all Takeaways sell Halal meat, mostly run my people of Islamic faith, which is why multiculturilism is huge in this area, I think people are offended that it's killed their way, but it's not exactly an argument to suggest people who protest this are protesting against it because they can, most of them don't know how the rest of the food they eat is killed and probably don't care.

I don't really see the problem with this. The simple fact is that non-muslims do not have any religious regulations that prevent them from eating Halal meat. So the easiest option for these takeaways is to make sure that both muslims and non-muslims can eat there.

[Devrim]

I don't really see the problem with this. The simple fact is that non-muslims do not have any religious regulations that prevent them from eating Halal meat. So the easiest option for these takeaways is to make sure that both muslims and non-muslims can eat there.

It is called good business planing really.

Devrim

[Wanted Man]

Speaking of business planning, döner shops here also sell slightly more expensive "lamb kebab" which, in some cases, is mixed with other meats, containing only a small amount of lamb or none at all. One even included pork. :blink:

[GreenCommunism]

It is banned because of a video insulting Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, the first President of Turkey. Of course it is possible to access it through a tunnel, but not to follow links.
what all of youtube is banned for one video?

KFC sells Halal meat. I don't think that is particularly Muslim.
apparently there are reports in france that not all food claimed to be halal is really halal. halal food cannot be considered halal if it is killed by mechanical robots. KFC goes around this and claim that only the presence of a muslim is required to say a praise to allah for each animal or so but it isn't true, a muslim has to do the incision, he has to say a praise to allah at the same time, the instrument must be very sharp to avoid needless suffering. needless to say there is no such thing as muslim machine. i am not sure it is the same outside france.

1. a muslim( i am not sure it has to be an imam but i guess any muslim would be ok) must say allah's name or i think it is bismillah just before the animal is killed. which (i am not sure again) means in the name of god.
2. the jugular vein must be cut and the animal is drained of his blood.
3. a muslim must be the one killing the animal.

now this of course means a lot of trouble for the capitalist world, it means hand killing, it means hiring a muslim to utter the blessing. but at the same time it means more clientele. it is not a surprise for me that they may be cutting corners while keeping the labels there.

this sort of mislabeling actually happens often, there are labels that are strictly enforced and other who are less popular that aren't at all. like the fair one who states that it was made in fair conditions and fair wages for the worker. i was pretty shocked to know that our government couldn't lift their ass off their parliamentary seats to make it illegal to mislabel the 'fair' label. the word in french is equitable i don't think it works in english.

on another note, some complain that this type of killing might be humane for the time the religion was born but nowdays it is cruel. but then many point out that it might actually be more humane than the way our animals are killed nowdays since the stun bolt actually paralyzes them but does not knock them unconscious.

[Robocommie]

But what about the Youtube I posted? I was speaking to some people who were out-raged by the amount of Halal meat outlets, It doesn't bother me personally because I don't eat take-aways - but what I do find annoying is how Clerics are allowed to preach openly on streets about Islamification and Extremism, trying to tell people Allah is best, etc, etc

You posted a clip from Fox News on a board full of Communists. Without making a more reasoned, critical analysis, do you not see how you got off to a ridiculous start?

It's also ridiculous that you have the gall to be annoyed at the idea that Muslims are actually allowed to have free speech and represent themselves openly.

[Jazzratt]

On the subject of Halal meat representing some kind of intolerable islamic conspiracy to take over Britain I understand that a lot of food sold in America is Kosher - I take it that means that the octopus of international jewry is taking over? :rolleyes:

[Sasha]

taking over? we are already in charge dude...

[IslamicMarxist]

You people realize they said the same thing about the Jews and Communism? Do something before the Muslims in Europe become the new jews. Neo Nazis are desegrating and attacking Muslims and their familys just like they did fifty years ago.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

I can't believe this is even being debated. "Islamification" is one of the most pathetic, xenophobic terms currently floating around.

3% of Brits are Muslims, who gives a fuck? A few shops sell Halal meat, who gives a fuck? And finally, a few Muslims preach on corners here and there, who gives a fuck about that either?

There are much bigger problems at hand than a small fraction of the population who follow a certain faith. All that the media's aggression towards Islam and its "ification" of our continent does is distract workers from real issues, like the exploitation of workers, or the ruthless anti-working class campaigns (like the cuts packages for example) all across Europe. It makes me sick to know that some people are more worried about Muslims than the fact that Greek style "austerity packages" are happening all over Europe. Funnily enough, Muslims are also affected by these measures; they are our brothers and sisters, not our enemies.

[durhamleft]

You people realize they said the same thing about the Jews and Communism? Do something before the Muslims in Europe become the new jews. Neo Nazis are desegrating and attacking Muslims and their familys just like they did fifty years ago.

Agreed 100%.

They've changed from racial racism to cultural and religious racism I think.

[Blake's Baby]

I can't believe this is even being debated...

3% of Brits are Muslims, who gives a fuck? A few shops sell Halal meat, who gives a fuck? And finally, a few Muslims preach on corners here and there, who gives a fuck about that either?

... It makes me sick to know that some people are more worried about Muslims than the fact that Greek style "austerity packages" are happening all over Europe...

I gotta agree with all of this; and at the risk of being accused of being sectarian and a troll, I feel I should point out that the OP claims to be a member of the Socialist Party, so (unless something has happened that I'm not aware of), part of the CWI, I think?

[burnmyremains]

Of course there are crazies, but there's crazies in almost any group of people... if history has taught us anything, it's White Christians that take countries over and subject the natives to their oppressive culture.

The Ottoman Empire was an example of Islamic Imperialism.

[ComradeOm]

The Ottoman Empire was an example of Islamic Imperialism.The Ottomans, despite being an expansionist empire, never "subjected the natives to their oppressive culture" in the manner of Western 'civilisations'. They were actually noted, and later sneered upon by 19th C imperialists, for their tendency of doing the opposite

[Adi Shankara]

On the subject of Halal meat representing some kind of intolerable islamic conspiracy to take over Britain I understand that a lot of food sold in America is Kosher - I take it that means that the octopus of international jewry is taking over? :rolleyes:

believe it or not, some Americans really think that...but it's worse in Europe, where 30% of Europe thinks jews were completely responsible for the economic crash:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3669706,00.html

and the figures are almost the same in the USA, where most americans think the Jews had something to do with the financial crisis:

http://www.thetotalcollapse.com/poll-jews-are-responsible-for-economic-crisis/

(This one is from the ADL, which is a right-wing rag, but I post the link for your viewing pleasure) http://www.adl.org/presrele/asus_12/4109_12.htm

20% of Jews have too much power the above link says polls show.

[Adi Shankara]

if history has taught us anything, it's White Christians that take countries over and subject the natives to their oppressive culture.

No offense to you, but that's not true; Even though Europeans are generally seem to be worse colonizers, I'd say the Europeans and Arabs are generally on the same level when it comes to terms of damage to the world done by colonization; it' just that most of Islam's colonization began in the early middle ages and late 1600's, as opposed to the 1800's, when most European colonization reached it's peak, and was generally more recorded.

Let me ask you this though: Do you think that Islam came to Afghanistan, Egypt, and Mali and historically, Spain, peacefully? no, the dominance of things such as the Arab script, Islam, and Arabic as a language of education is the result of at least a thousand years of colonization from Arab caliphates and powers.

People seem to forget that the Umayyad Caliphate once ruled over a territory larger than the Roman empire; so no, Islam and Arab people have done much colonizing around the world; to ignore it is to ignore history.

[Adi Shankara]

The Ottomans, despite being an expansionist empire, never "subjected the natives to their oppressive culture" in the manner of Western 'civilisations'. They were actually noted, and later sneered upon by 19th C imperialists, for their tendency of doing the opposite

Are you sure?

Armenian Genocide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devshirmeh --here it describes how non-muslims had to give a male son to the service of the army, or as a servant and were forcibly converted to Islam or put to death--basically making them a slave class with zero rights whatsoever, on par with European colonization.

I'm sorry, but the to say the Ottomans never oppressed natives is completely untrue. Even if they never did commit a horrible, bloody genocide against the Armenians, to colonize a people IS to oppress them.

seriously, I wish some people would learn history before commenting on it.

[ComradeOm]

Are you sure?

Armenian Genocide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide)One incident during the collapse of the Empire, which had absolutely nothing to do with Islam, does not suddenly erase memories of the relatively pluralistic millet system that had prevailed for centuries


I'm sorry, but the to say the Ottomans never oppressed natives is completely untrue. Even if they never did commit a horrible, bloody genocide against the Armenians, to colonize a people IS to oppress them.1) The Ottomans did not "colonise" peoples. That's pretty much the point. They conquered them and they ruled them but they did not colonise them

2) I never claimed that the Ottomans did not oppress anyone - that's a given for all empires - but that they did not "subject the natives to their oppressive culture". Leaving aside the matter of what makes a culture "oppressive", the Ottomans permitted their subjects, both Muslim and non-Muslim, considerable leeway in maintaining their own cultures and traditions. Certainly when compared - and who else can they be compared to? - Western contemporaries

[Adi Shankara]

One incident during the collapse of the Empire...

...that was responsible for the deaths of 1,500,000 people...


1) The Ottomans did not "colonise" peoples. That's pretty much the point. They conquered them and they ruled them but they did not colonise them

2) I never claimed that the Ottomans did not oppress anyone - that's a given for all empires - but that they did not "subject the natives to their oppressive culture". Leaving aside the matter of what makes a culture "oppressive", the Ottomans permitted their subjects, both Muslim and non-Muslim, considerable leeway in maintaining their own cultures and traditions. Certainly when compared - and who else can they be compared to? - Western contemporaries

I advise you read the 2nd link again, where the policies of taking first born sons, converting them to Islam, and turning them into slaves led to Greek rebellion and then to independence.

Any which way you look at it, that's colonization.

[ComradeOm]

...that was responsible for the deaths of 1,500,000 people...And? Are you suggesting that I condone this? Or are you suggesting that it was the typical modus operandi of the Ottoman Empire? Neither is the case. In fact you can easily, although I would be hesitant to do so, ascribe this affair to growing nationalist tendencies that subverted traditional Ottoman practices


I advise you read the 2nd link again, where the policies of taking first born sons, converting them to Islam, and turning them into slaves led to Greek rebellion and then to independence1) The devshirme had nothing to do with Greek independence. This conscription practice had ended centuries before the emergence of the Greek state :rolleyes:

2) I do not find the devshirme to be a particularly pleasant practice but it had little if anything to do with enforcing Ottoman culture. Rather it was a means of establishing a military force loyal solely to the Ottoman state, as opposed to the various noble families that had dominated the early expansionist period. The Ottoman state did not set out to destroy/crush the different religious/ethnic cultures that were kept alive under its aegis


Any which way you look at it, that's colonization.No, its not. I suggest that you look up the meaning of colonisation. If the Sublime Porte had maintained a colonisation policy, or even a religious policy, similar to that of Western European states then there would be no nations ready to emerge from its carcass in the 19th C. Think about that - despite centuries of Ottoman rule, Greeks, Serbs, Bulgarians, etc, etc, all survived as coherent ethnic and cultural identities. The real damage did not occur until these started fighting amongst each other in the 20th C

[Adi Shankara]

And? Are you suggesting that I condone this? Or are you suggesting that it was the typical modus operandi of the Ottoman Empire? Neither is the case. In fact you can easily, although I would be hesitant to do so, ascribe this affair to growing nationalist tendencies that subverted traditional Ottoman practices

1) The devshirme had nothing to do with Greek independence. This conscription practice had ended centuries before the emergence of the Greek state :rolleyes:

2) I do not find the devshirme to be a particularly pleasant practice but it had little if anything to do with enforcing Ottoman culture. Rather it was a means of establishing a military force loyal solely to the Ottoman state, as opposed to the various noble families that had dominated the early expansionist period. The Ottoman state did not set out to destroy/crush the different religious/ethnic cultures that were kept alive under its aegis

No, its not. I suggest that you look up the meaning of colonisation. If the Sublime Porte had maintained a colonisation policy, or even a religious policy, similar to that of Western European states then there would be no nations ready to emerge from its carcass in the 19th C. Think about that - despite centuries of Ottoman rule, Greeks, Serbs, Bulgarians, etc, etc, all survived as coherent ethnic and cultural identities. The real damage did not occur until these started fighting amongst each other in the 20th C

I give up; you're seeming to say that colonization is okay, as long as it's not done by white people, and as long as they don't attempt to systematically destroy another's culture; with a mentality like that, there is no convincing you.

[ComradeOm]

I give up; you're seeming to say that colonization is okay, as long as it's not done by white people, and as long as they don't attempt to systematically destroy another's culture; with a mentality like that, there is no convincing you.You didn't even read my post. Show me the regions that the Ottomans colonised. Show me the regions where they attempted to eradicate pre-existing ethnic/cultural/religious groups. Where was the concerted Ottoman colonisation programme?

Answer: There was none. The Ottoman system, while hardly admirable by today's standards, specifically established rights for these "native" populations that allowed them to continue existing, and in some cases thrive, under Ottoman rule. Compare this "Islamic Imperialism" with the actual colonisation practices of Western Europe

So don't start talking to me about knowing history or suggesting that the problem is my "mentality". The problem here is that you don't have a clue what you're talking about and are entirely unable to respond to my points

[Wolf Larson]

Religion is a cancer.

[Devrim]

If the Sublime Porte had maintained a colonisation policy, or even a religious policy, similar to that of Western European states then there would be no nations ready to emerge from its carcass in the 19th C. Think about that - despite centuries of Ottoman rule, Greeks, Serbs, Bulgarians, etc, etc, all survived as coherent ethnic and cultural identities. The real damage did not occur until these started fighting amongst each other in the 20th C

And you certainly wouldn't still occasionally hear people speaking Ladino on the streets of Istanbul. I am certain that you never hear it in Madrid.

Devrim

[Franz Fanonipants]

OP is a fascist

The End

[Fictional]

You posted a clip from Fox News on a board full of Communists. Without making a more reasoned, critical analysis, do you not see how you got off to a ridiculous start?

It's also ridiculous that you have the gall to be annoyed at the idea that Muslims are actually allowed to have free speech and represent themselves openly.
Heyheyhey, I'm simply asking a question to which I've had some great replies too - guess you could say I set you up with a Fox News clip?:blushing:

Thanks too all your replies, not sure if many of you live in Britain, but you've given me some good insight as to how to combat nationalist scum here.

Cheers.

[IslamicMarxist]

Agreed 100%.

They've changed from racial racism to cultural and religious racism I think.

Yes it's all of those things. The European Neo Nazis want to expel every non European ethnicity including Africans, Jews, Persians, Arabs, Turks, and a bunch of others. The reason they hate Islam is because most of the African, Arab, Persian, Kurdish, Malaysian immagrants and such follow Islam. They call on a crusade against all non Europeans. One video openly advicates the killing of Muslims, Blacks(Non muslim blacks too), and antifa, and other left wing party's. That's why I explain on the forum now is not the time to be hating any race or ethnicity, and now is not the time to openly bash Islam, like the Neo Nazis do. Seriously, some of the same arguments against Islam on this site I see on the Neo Nazi youtube videos.