Log in

View Full Version : Chimps Waging Guerrilla Warfare???



The Vegan Marxist
22nd June 2010, 02:42
Researchers see chimps waging "war"

WASHINGTON, June 21, 2010 (Reuters) — Chimpanzees wage war, mercilessly killing members of neighboring groups to expand their own territory, researchers reported Monday.

While biologists had long suspected that chimp violence could be more than random, the study in Current Biology provides the first clear evidence of this.

"Although some previous observations appear to support that hypothesis, until now, we have lacked clear-cut evidence," University of Michigan primate behavioral ecologist John Mitani said in a statement.

The researchers spent 10 years watching two groups of chimpanzees living in Ngogo in Uganda's Kibale National Park. One was unusually large, with about 150 members, and appeared to have a disproportionate number of males.

"During this time, we observed the Ngogo chimpanzees kill or fatally wound 18 individuals from other groups," the researchers wrote. They saw evidence of three more killings.

They noticed unusual chimpanzee patrols in which the animals moved quickly, silently and in single file, carefully watching for other chimpanzees.

Anthropologist Sylvia Amsler, now at the University of Arkansas at Little Rock, was a graduate student working with Mitani when she saw one such patrol launch an attack.

"They had been on patrol outside of their territory for more than two hours when they surprised a small group of females from the community to the northwest," Amsler said in a statement. "Almost immediately upon making contact, the adult males in the patrol party began attacking the unknown females, two of whom were carrying dependent infants."

The attackers quickly killed one and struggled with the mother of the second over a period of an hour and a half.

"Though they were never successful in grabbing the infant from its mother, the infant was obviously very badly injured, and we don't believe it could have survived," Amsler said.

Soon after the killings, the researchers noticed that the Ngogo chimpanzees expanded their territory considerably -- by more than 22 percent.

"When they started to move into this area, it didn't take much time to realize that they had killed a lot of other chimpanzees there," Mitani said.

While chimpanzees are the closest living relatives of human beings, Mitani is unsure if the warlike behavior sheds light on human warfare. "Warfare in the human sense occurs for lots of different reasons," he said. "I'm just not convinced we're talking about the same thing."

What the behavior may point to is cooperation.

"The lethal intergroup aggression that we have witnessed is cooperative in nature, insofar as it involves coalitions of males attacking others. In the process, our chimpanzees have acquired more land and resources that are then redistributed to others in the group."

The area was remote and no people lived around there, so the researchers reject the theory that pressure from humans may have caused unusual behavior among the chimpanzees.

http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/tre65k48g-us-chimps-war/

Lenina Rosenweg
22nd June 2010, 05:09
Shouldn't that be "Chimps Waging Gorilla Warfare?" Sorry, I couldn't resist that one. As I understand bonobos are thought to be more peaceful and less "patriarchal" than chimps. Female bonobos have a way of regulating and reducing conflict between males though sexuality.

I would be careful about generalizing aspects of the behavior of other animals, even chimps and bonobos, to humans.

AK
22nd June 2010, 09:01
Imperialist chimps. Shit, we're fucked.

In all fairness, I knew this was coming. I didn't like it when I saw chimps making tools... the bastards are getting too smart.

RedStarOverChina
22nd June 2010, 15:44
We know that chimps from different areas (and "cultures", if you'd like) exhibit different behaviours. So this does not necessarily mean all chimps are murderous bastards.

Also explaining our wars in terms "human nature" is highly problematic---It's like the "God factor" in anthropology---anything we don't have a clear understanding of, we blame it on "human nature".

Sasha
22nd June 2010, 15:49
like said in the other thread, i higly recomend reading chipanzee politics by frans the waal
http://books.google.com/books?id=XsrhU2vV5PIC&dq=chimpanzee+politics&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=Qs0gTNSoO8iOjAfxq9H5Dw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false

The Vegan Marxist
22nd June 2010, 16:22
We know that chimps from different areas (and "cultures", if you'd like) exhibit different behaviours. So this does not necessarily mean all chimps are murderous bastards.

Also explaining our wars in terms "human nature" is highly problematic---It's like the "God factor" in anthropology---anything we don't have a clear understanding of, we blame it on "human nature".

Oh, I was definitely not using this to try & find some "proof" of "human nature". Just so we're clear on that lol.

gorillafuck
22nd June 2010, 17:22
Now that's what I call gorilla warfare!

CountryKid
22nd June 2010, 22:21
Bad ass

Ele'ill
22nd June 2010, 23:48
Better than them forcing SAP's on the other chimps and then complaining when some cross their borders to look for resources.

the last donut of the night
23rd June 2010, 17:55
This is interesting, but also irritating, because the mainstream media and pundits are always quick to point fingers and scream, "Oh, look at that, even our closest relatives can't get along. I guess we're doomed to barbarism" and go on rants about human nature, how even animals are fucked up or whatever. Truth is, chimpanzees and humans, however much DNA they may share, are completely different animals with completely different social structures. Chimpanzees are much more patriarchal and authoritarian than we are. I'd say bonobos are the closest things to us in terms of social organization.

Sasha
23rd June 2010, 19:13
Chimpanzees are much more patriarchal and authoritarian than we are. I'd say bonobos are the closest things to us in terms of social organization.

funny enough (the before mentioned) frans de waal places us socially about in the middle.
but he says that not aggression but especially in the way we conduct everyday politics (trading favors, emphaty etc etc) we are most like chimps.

people intrested in some wortwhile socio-bioligy should read his most recent book the age of emphaty

review 'The Age of Empathy' by Frans de Waal

BOOK REVIEW


Dutch psychologist and primatologist Frans de Waal, using primate tendencies as a model, contends that humans are hard-wired for compassion.


September 20, 2009|Sara Lippincott, Lippincott is a freelance editor specializing in science.


"Greed is out, empathy is in." So writes optimistic Dutch psychologist and primatologist Frans de Waal in the preface to his latest meditation on the similarities between apes and people.
"The Age of Empathy" might not strike you as the most accurate representation of a period in human history that will be remembered -- if we survive it -- for the War on Terror, nuclear wannabes, various genocides and looming Armageddon in the Middle East. But De Waal, perhaps sensing this, suggests an alternate reading: "Human empathy has the backing of a long evolutionary history -- which is the second meaning of 'age' in this book's title."

http://articles.latimes.com/images/pixel.gif
Chimpanzees share with us a common ancestry and an all-but-common supply of genes, so it's worth watching how they behave toward one another. In "Chimpanzee Politics" (1982), his bestselling first book, De Waal was chiefly concerned with the power games played by chimps in the Arnhem Zoo. "Aggression was my first topic of study," he admits. But the slaying of his favorite Arnhem chimp by two male chimps "opened my eyes to the value of peacemaking. . . ."
Over the years, De Waal has recorded many instances of ape empathy, even among the relatively bloodthirsty chimpanzees and particularly among the gentler bonobos. Like us, apes yawn when another yawns, return favors, bristle at the unfair distribution of goods and even kiss babies in pursuit of the top job: "[W]hen male chimps vie for high status, they . . . do the rounds with females, grooming them and tickling their offspring. Normally, male chimps are not particularly interested in the young, but when they need group support they can't stay away from them." This apercu is accompanied by De Waal's sketch of a man closely resembling President George W. Bush hoisting a toddler aloft. ("Have you ever noticed how often politicians lift infants above the crowd? It's an odd way of handling them, not always enjoyed by the object of attention itself. But what good is a display that stays unnoticed?")


De Waal's principal thesis is that when contemplating our evolutionary heritage, we see ourselves more as natural-born competitors than natural-born empathizers and cooperators. "[U]ntil recently," he writes, "empathy was not taken seriously by science." Even with regards to our own species, it was considered an absurd, laughable topic. . . . " Some of us indeed have tended to think like Social Darwinist Herbert Spencer, who coined the phrase Darwin has been unfairly stuck with: "survival of the fittest." Indeed, some, like Hitler and the American and British eugenicists of the early 20th century, have tended to think that only the fittest ought to survive. But De Waal's readership is probably aware by now that altruism too has been built into the animal kingdom.


http://articles.latimes.com/images/pixel.gif


Nevertheless, he rightly argues that we modern humans need to recognize and cultivate our fellow feeling, "an innate age-old capacity" that has been naturally selected for -- for the excellent reason that without it we would have gone extinct long ago. "It's not as though we're asking our species to do anything foreign to it by building on the old herd instinct that has kept animal societies together for millions of years," he writes. "Every individual is connected to something larger than itself. . . . The connection is deeply felt and . . . no society can do without it."




De Waal bolsters his case with plentiful anecdotes of sweet-natured primates and contemporary examples of ill-advised human cold-bloodedness (Enron, the response to Hurricane Katrina). Along the way, you learn a lot of interesting primatological arcana, such as that apes can't swim and invariably defecate when excited. In concluding, De Waal points out that Adam Smith, the alpha male of free marketeers, has consistently been misunderstood. Smith's disciples "leave out an essential part of his thinking, which is far more congenial to the position I have taken throughout this book, namely, that reliance on greed as the driving force of society is bound to undermine its very fabric."

WhitemageofDOOM
28th June 2010, 11:23
Chimps act like gang members, film at 11.


because the mainstream media and pundits are always quick to point fingers and scream, "Oh, look at that, even our closest relatives can't get along. I guess we're doomed to barbarism" and go on rants about human nature, how even animals are fucked up or whatever.

Well there falling prey to the trap of misanthropy, humans have culture and chimps don't. Which means were only going to act like chimps if our culture encourages that shit(which last i checked none do.) or we are reduced to that state by being denied a place in society(now this is a real problem).


I'd say bonobos are the closest things to us in terms of social organization.I can has sex in place of conflict plz?

Red Saxon
29th June 2010, 04:24
Our forklifts versus their scat projectile weaponry...

Who will win? D: