Strange American obsession with hating soccer... [Archive]

RadioRaheem84

21st June 2010, 05:10

Every forum I visit, every place I go to talk about soccer, etc. there is always one or two or sometimes three annoying uber-nationalist yank that has to give his two cents about how much he hates soccer.

I do not understand the weird hatred toward the game that the whole world loves? It's beyond weird. When they actually give me reasons as to why they hate the game so much they tend to be idiotic responses.

One of them that gets me fuming is the fact that they dislike the strong camaraderie of the fans. How they hate the drums, the flags, the cheering, the chanting, the flares at AC Milan games, etc. It makes no sense. How can anyone hate to see strong loyal support for teams like that? I can understand their hatred for hooligans and racists at games, but their comments toward soccer seem almost bigoted too.

The World Cup Horns that make the horde of bees sound have been introduced at a Florida Marlins Baseball game and the managers of the team were furious, quoted as saying that; "this isn't soccer, this is baseball" yada yada, baseball is cooler than soccer, and whatever else.

I mean, is it insecurity? What is it? No soccer fans are storming American football forums or NBA forums or yelling on radio, tv about how fricking boring baseball is or how idiotically masochist American football is.

Americans act like just because they don't like the sport then that legitimizes their opinion of it.

Â¿Que?

21st June 2010, 05:16

Funny, I asked my mom the same question. It may be something as simple as America's culture of instant gratification. There simply are not enough points scored. Americans hate the idea of sitting through an hour an a half only to have the game tie 0 to 0.

Another reason might be that the game requires a high degree of group cohesion. American individualism has struggled to excel in such a collective endeavor, which leads to reason number three.

Americans hate losing.

praxis1966

21st June 2010, 07:09

As with most things Americans like, dislike, or indifferent to, I chalk it up to either stupidity, ignorance or both. Americans' first reaction to something they don't understand is hatred.

I'll give you a demonstrative allegory. At my high school, they had this commendation they handed out to the boys' and girls' athletic teams with the highest grade point average called The Principal's Award. I played soccer all four years, and all for years the boys' and girls' soccer teams won the award. The fact is, it doesn't take much intelligence to whack a ball with a stick or run 10 feet and fall down. It does, however, require alot of quick, on the fly, abstract thinking skills to understand the finer points of the world game.

21st June 2010, 08:26

It's not called soccer but football... Silly yanks.

Jimmie Higgins

21st June 2010, 08:47

Radio, I wish I could thank that post. I was just talking about this with my partner because she was reading Dave Zirin's article about Glenn Beck dissing soccer:

Glenn Beck's Blues: Why the Far Right Hates Soccer (http://www.edgeofsports.com/2010-06-14-542/index.html)

http://www.edgeofsports.com/images/column-542.jpgBeck’s wingnut godfather, G. Gordon Liddy also said on his radio program (http://mediamatters.org/embed/clips/2010/06/11/6346/liddy-20100610-soccer), “Whatever happened to American exceptionalism? This game … originated with the South American Indians and instead of a ball, they used to use the head, the decapitated head, of an enemy warrior.”

Dear Lord, where do we begin? First of all, I always find it amusing when folks like Beck say, “We don’t like soccer” when it is by far the most popular youth sport in the United States. It’s like saying, “You know what else American kids hate? Ice cream!” Young people love soccer not because of some kind of commie-nazi plot conjured by Saul Alinsky to sap us of our precious juices, but because it’s – heaven forefend - fun.

Among adults, the sport is also growing because people from Latin America, Africa, and the West Indies have brought their love of the beautiful game to an increasingly multicultural United States. As sports journalist Simon Kuper wrote very adroitly in his book Soccer Against the Enemy (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1568586337/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?ie=UTF8&cloe_id=b0d59091-14b8-4414-b6cd-e47c2a8c0c52&attrMsgId=LPWidget-A2&pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=1560258780&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=19PPPS7XYGS543Q5WW51), “When we say Americans don’t play soccer we are thinking of the big white people who live in the suburbs. Tens of millions of Hispanic Americans [and other nationalities] do play, and watch and read about soccer.” In other words, Beck rejects soccer because his idealized “real America” - in all its monochromatic glory – rejects it as well. To be clear, I know a lot of folks who can’t stand soccer. It’s simply a matter of taste. But for Beck it’s a lot more than, “Gee. It’s kind of boring.” Instead it’s, “Look out whitey! Felipe Melo’s gonna get your mama!”

As for Liddy, let’s be clear. There is not in fact hard anthropological evidence that early soccer games were played with a human head. Interestingly, though, there is an oft-told legend that the sport took root in England in the 8th century because the King’s army playfully kicked around the detached cranium of the conquered Prince of Denmark. Notice that this tall-tale is about Europe not “South American Indians”. I think we’re seeing a theme here.
It goes on, I'd recommend reading it, Zirin is hella entertaining.

To add to his points about the racism (also nationalism directed against "socialist Europe" and their collectivist little team sport:lol:) there is also a lot of sexism in the anti-soccer bandwagon. What team sports are made fun of the most in the US for not being "serious"? 1. Soccer 2. Softball 3. Women's Basketball - these are the three main team sports where women have been allowed to excell and win college scolarhips for. So in the US, you often get right-wingers claiming that soccer isn't a masculine sport when played by men while conversely female soccer, basketball, and softball palyers are made fun of for being too masculine and supposedly homosexual.

I don't know how in the US, the left, feminists, and so on have been tagged as too serious stick-in-the-mud "spoil-sports" in popular consciousness when the right literally wants to strip women sport opportunities in public schools; they make fun of games played by millions of US children like Soccer; don't want people to fuck unless they are trying to have a baby; don't want anyone to smoke a joint and see "Avatar"!

manic expression

21st June 2010, 11:19

It's not called soccer but football... Silly yanks.
The word soccer originated in the UK from a colloquial modification of the formal name of the sport: association football. Association was shortened to soccer...it's just like the term "rugger" for rugby. Wherever it came from, though, it didn't come from us.

But on this, it's very multi-faceted. In this scenario, I think it's a matter of the anti-soccer type of Americans being loud and obnoxious. It's kind of like dance: lots of Americans love to dance (probably most), but there's always one or two idiots at a party who, after seeing other guys get along with the girls on the dance floor, start ranting about how it's "gay" for guys to dance. This is especially true of soccer, since it's seen as a foreign attack on the American identity, and right-wingers can't stand that. And as the NBA becomes more pathetic and MLB struggles to draw younger followers, the "traditional" American sport lovers are insecure, jealous, desperate. Kind of like that guy at the party who can't dance, so he insults people who can.

Another problem we run into is the fact that soccer is seen as a child's game in the US. It's something you have your kids play when they're small, and then you introduce them to the other, "better" sports. The thing with this is that when they dismiss it, they're only dismissing an immature version of the game. If the same was done of any other sport, it would be laughed at even more. Ever seen little kids try to play American football? Hockey? Baseball? It's a joke.

One thing I don't blame is the American dislike of widespread cheating in soccer. The Italian-style flopping, diving and simulation is basically disgusting to anyone who cares about fairness...and it doesn't help the image of soccer as weak. But pathetic acting is blatantly rewarded and it goes unpunished. Until FIFA cuts down on that (and they need to, the useless buffoons they are), it will always be an obstacle to Americans accepting the game.

But we're making progress. A large number of Americans are OK with soccer, as evidenced by the fact that US matches in the World Cup have gotten a bigger TV audience than some NBA Finals games.

praxis1966

21st June 2010, 13:54

It's not called soccer but football... Silly yanks.The word soccer originated in the UK from a colloquial modification of the formal name of the sport: association football. Association was shortened to soccer...it's just like the term "rugger" for rugby. Wherever it came from, though, it didn't come from us.

This is pretty much correct. The word soccer comes from the word "soca" which is a hypocorism for the phrase "association football," the original term used to differentiate football/soccer from Rugby school football. The connection between the two sports is superficially semantic, though, as the term "football" has much less to do with the fact that the ball is kicked than it has to do with the fact that the two games are played on foot. This is contrasted with sports which are played on horseback, such as polo. For more on the subject, I'd suggest a viewing of History of Soccer: The Beautiful Game (http://www.amazon.com/History-Soccer-Beautiful-Terence-Stamp/dp/B0000C238U/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top/185-4133371-3412928).

Anyway, I'm no etymologist or lexicographer, but I have the feeling that the term "soccer" is simply a phonetic spelling which reflects the tendency of certain English speakers to drop an "r" sound onto the ends of words that actually end in vowels. I'm thinking specifically here of the word "idea(r)." Anyway, my point is simply that etymological roots the word "soccer" date back to Victorian England, so silly Englishmen asserting that it's "it's not called soccer but football... Silly Yanks," is, well, the silliest bit of all. This is especially so since the next words out of their mouths are usually something on the order of "learn the game, arsehole," which is ironic since making the original statement, in fact, only betrays an ignorance of the history of the game.

I can't begin to tell you how many Englishmen I've been forced to explain this to, Q, so do me a favor. Tell ya friends, baby! :lol:

As for Liddy, let’s be clear. There is not in fact hard anthropological evidence that early soccer games were played with a human head. Interestingly, though, there is an oft-told legend that the sport took root in England in the 8th century because the King’s army playfully kicked around the detached cranium of the conquered Prince of Denmark. Notice that this tall-tale is about Europe not “South American Indians”. I think we’re seeing a theme here.

I think this pretty much proves my initial point that Americans hate soccer out of a combination of stupidity and ignorance. They can't even be bothered to get their facts straight when demonizing it.

Anyway, I think the rest of Manic Expression's explanation/argument is pretty much spot on.

21st June 2010, 17:24

Ah, thanks for that bit manic expression and praxis1966. But:

Anyway, my point is simply that etymological roots the word "soccer" date back to Victorian England, so silly Englishmen asserting that it's "it's not called soccer but football... Silly Yanks," is, well, the silliest bit of all.
I'm not English. Nor do I really know or care that much about the game.

praxis1966

21st June 2010, 18:10

Ah, thanks for that bit manic expression and praxis1966.

Anytime. :)

I'm not English. Nor do I really know or care that much about the game.

Fair enough.

RadioRaheem84

21st June 2010, 18:31

But on this, it's very multi-faceted. In this scenario, I think it's a matter of the anti-soccer type of Americans being loud and obnoxious. It's kind of like dance: lots of Americans love to dance (probably most), but there's always one or two idiots at a party who, after seeing other guys get along with the girls on the dance floor, start ranting about how it's "gay" for guys to dance. This is especially true of soccer, since it's seen as a foreign attack on the American identity, and right-wingers can't stand that. And as the NBA becomes more pathetic and MLB struggles to draw younger followers, the "traditional" American sport lovers are insecure, jealous, desperate. Kind of like that guy at the party who can't dance, so he insults people who can.
This. The dance comparison is the best way to describe how Americans feel about soccer.

Dr Mindbender

21st June 2010, 20:03

The most stupid American argument ive heard for hating [non American] football is that the scores are too low.

:lol:

Veg_Athei_Socialist

21st June 2010, 21:43

I'm american and I honestly don't see the appeal in sports, but soccer even more so than others. Maybe you have to play it to get it but on tv I found it too boring to watch for more than 30 seconds.

Invincible Summer

21st June 2010, 21:57

I'm Canadian, and I dislike soccer.

I appreciate the athleticism involved (I wouldn't be able to run at start-stop intervals constantly for an hour or however long a game is, nor could I even run with a goddamn ball in my way), and I suppose it's good that people get together to watch (although team rivalries is sort of silly).

But it's soooooo boring. I apologize to all my European/N. American football-sympathizing comrades.

I would actually prefer watching curling to football. And I don't watch baseball or basketball or hockey or golf so don't pin me with that stuff.

I guess all the running and slower pace of the game (compared to the "great Canadian pastime" of hockey) isn't interesting to me. The players always seem to grossly exaggerate their injuries, which makes me want to squeeze their faces and tell them to stop being melodramatic children. The goaltenders have such a huge net to deal with they don't even do anything.

I think football would be more interesting if the field was reduced in size.

So yeah I really don't see the worldwide attraction in football.

praxis1966

21st June 2010, 22:41

I'm Canadian, and I dislike soccer.

Fair enough. To each his own.

But it's soooooo boring. I apologize to all my European/N. American football-sympathizing comrades.

Yeah, that's the trouble with internationals (which is I assume what you're talking about given the fact that the World Cup's going). Alot of the time, and especially in the group stage, things can be pretty methodical (not to mention negative [teams playing to not lose instead of to win]). It will get better in the knockout phases, so I'd encourage you to give it time.

I would actually prefer watching curling to football. And I don't watch baseball or basketball or hockey or golf so don't pin me with that stuff.

Like I said, to each his own. I won't tell you to like the sport, only ask that you keep an open mind once the knockout phase of the WC begins.

I guess all the running and slower pace of the game (compared to the "great Canadian pastime" of hockey) isn't interesting to me.

Again, this kind of thing is endemic to international soccer/football. I'd encourage you to give the English Premier League a shot once it gets going again in August. It's much, much, faster and much, much more physical than what you're seeing if you only watch the World Cup every 4 years.

The players always seem to grossly exaggerate their injuries, which makes me want to squeeze their faces and tell them to stop being melodramatic children.

Fair enough. This is something fans of the sport have been saying for years. The trouble, really, is referees. There are occasions when they buy into all the flailing and wailing, but to err is human as they say. On the other hand, even when there is a dive and the referee knows it, more often than not the referee just tells him to get up when what he should be doing is giving him a yellow card. Why FIFA and the various world FAs haven't seen fit to seriously crack down on this sort of thing is as much beyond me as it is you.

The goaltenders have such a huge net to deal with they don't even do anything.

Not sure what's meant by this one.

I think football would be more interesting if the field was reduced in size.

Again, watch the EPL. Most of those stadiums were originally constructed in the 19th Century, so the field of play is drastically smaller. Believe it or not, there isn't one specific size of field that's mandatory, rather a range and the requirement that it has to be rectangular and longer than wide. The reason why the field is so big in the World Cup is because the host country is always anxious to provide a grandiose spectacle. That, and I think there may be some desire to see to it that the speedy and creative players have plenty of room to maneuver.

Anyway, keep in mind that club soccer teams are alot of times better than national teams, believe it or not. At the club level, as long as you've got the cash, you can buy players regardless of nationality. Also, they have the benefit of playing together week in and week out 50 odd times a year. At the international level, you just have to play the hand you're dealt a handful of times a year (which makes a huge difference in a sport like soccer which is dependent on team cohesion much the same way hockey is). This has lead alot of people to declare club football "real football."

Anyway, you don't have to like it. Not every sport has to interest everyone. Not everyone has to like sports for that matter. I'd just hope you keep an open mind. :)

larrym

21st June 2010, 23:01

maybe its cause they didnt invent the game :D

you would be better watching championship football rather than premiership its more exciting

Invincible Summer

21st June 2010, 23:01

Again, watch the EPL. Most of those stadiums were originally constructed in the 19th Century, so the field of play is drastically smaller. Believe it or not, there isn't one specific size of field that's mandatory, rather a range and the requirement that it has to be rectangular and longer than wide. The reason why the field is so big in the World Cup is because the host country is always anxious to provide a grandiose spectacle. That, and I think there may be some desire to see to it that the speedy and creative players have plenty of room to maneuver.

Anyway, keep in mind that club soccer teams are alot of times better than national teams, believe it or not. At the club level, as long as you've got the cash, you can buy players regardless of nationality. Also, they have the benefit of playing together week in and week out 50 odd times a year. At the international level, you just have to play the hand you're dealt a handful of times a year (which makes a huge difference in a sport like soccer which is dependent on team cohesion much the same way hockey is). This has lead alot of people to declare club football "real football."

Anyway, you don't have to like it. Not every sport has to interest everyone. Not everyone has to like sports for that matter. I'd just hope you keep an open mind. :)

Thanks for not flaming me :lol:

I will definitely check out EPL... when do matches usually happen?

Os Cangaceiros

21st June 2010, 23:35

I'm not big on soccer, either. I was pretty good at it (well, last time I played, anyway) but watching it is kind of boring, I think.

praxis1966

22nd June 2010, 00:16

Thanks for not flaming me :lol:

I will definitely check out EPL... when do matches usually happen?

Well, I would've flamed you if you were an asshole. But you're not; you came across as quite reasonable and I think if I were just a casual fan I'd probably feel the same way. In other words, you're typically Canadian: polite to a fault. :lol:

Anyway, the EPL runs from the second week of August until the end of May. Matches are usually played on Saturdays and Sundays. I don't know what kind of cable package you have, but Fox Soccer Canada is the best channel to see matches. As an interesting aside, apart from Bobby McMannamon (sp?) who's Scottish, all of the folks on their flagship program Fox Soccer Report (which gets broadcast unchanged on both sides of our shared border) are Canadians. :lol:

CountryKid

22nd June 2010, 01:50

Weezer

22nd June 2010, 01:59

It's not just soccer, I hate all sports.

Terminator X

22nd June 2010, 02:42

praxis1966

22nd June 2010, 03:30

It's quite simple why Americans hate soccer - because we didn't invent it and aren't dominant at it. We think American football is the greatest sport in the world, when no one plays it but us. I'm actually surprised that baseball remains so popular, when it is becoming a much more global sport, dominated by Hispanics.

I am a huge fan of soccer, and it's amazing how average, everyday people in almost every bar I go into will almost take offense to me liking it.

I hear that. It's like they're somehow threatened by your existence. Almost immediately they wanna argue with you about, it as if some how they could talk you out of liking it any more than you could talk them out of liking their favorite sport.

Veg_Athei_Socialist

22nd June 2010, 03:43

It's not just soccer, I hate all sports.
I wouldn't go as far as saying I hate sports - I do find them annoying, pointless and boring - but I do dislike them a lot. What makes you go as far as saying you hate them?

Jdalichau

22nd June 2010, 04:23

I've played soccer for almost 20 years and now I'm a referee. I simply love "The Beautiful Game"!!

Like most Americans I have the friends that say they hate the sport and think it's the most boring thing to watch. Recently I started taking some of them to Seattle Sounders games, I have season tickets. Once they understood the game a little better and got the feel of the crowed they were hooked. I admit we are lucky to have a HUGE amount of support for MLS in Seattle. Last I heard the Sounders have 8,000 on the waiting list for season tickets. There is nothing more exciting then watching a match with 40,000 other fans standing, chanting and singing the entire 90 minutes!
I can only imagine what a game in Europe must be like.

Some day I hope to make a Bayern Munich match........... That would be the shit :thumbup1:

Cheers all

J

Jimmie Higgins

22nd June 2010, 04:34

It's quite simple why Americans hate soccer - because we didn't invent it and aren't dominant at it.Ha, good point.

22nd June 2010, 04:49

Funny, I asked my mom the same question. It may be something as simple as America's culture of instant gratification. There simply are not enough points scored. Americans hate the idea of sitting through an hour an a half only to have the game tie 0 to 0.

Could you get a shallower and more superficial "Americans are stupid fat slobs" argument? Seriously, you didn't even try to hide it.

Try baseball; it's a much slower paced game than soccer and is a national tradition.

BTW I watched the US England game at a block party off one of the most notable streets in Milwaukee on a jumbo-tron with an entire block full of people whose faces were painted, wearing jerseys, etc... Soccer is hardly a "hated sport" in many parts of the country and it's going to get even more popular in the next couple of years.

RadioRaheem84

23rd June 2010, 06:35

Well I just don't think that the US will reach ULTRA status for games like AC Milan,Olympic Marseille, Celtic vs Rangers, AJAX, Liverpool and Turkish, Greek football games. God, I love watching those games. The best pyro technic shows ever! The Turks perfected the "bouncy".

MLS is good. I went to a Houston Dynamos game and the fans were loyal and proud. I liked it. But it has a long way to go before it even reaches the mild status of even Danish football.

ComradeOm

23rd June 2010, 11:37

This article (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thomas-alter/why-the-world-cup-sucks_b_613958.html) really does hit all the cliches when it comes to Americans and soccer. Its not a joke. The best bit*:

Oh, but soccer is the most popular sport in the world, you're a philistine for this article. With the risk of sounding like a xenophobe, soccer is only the most popular because the majority of the globe does not have the resources to play American sports. I love playing soccer; I played for nine years of my life. That doesn't make it fun to watch. In no way does it require the strategy of football or the athleticism of basketball. It doesn't have the frenetic pace of hockey or the mellow beauty of baseball. My guess is many European fans (hooligans) enjoy it simply because it gives them an excuse to get tanked up. Of all the major sports, soccer is the most simplistic game. That doesn't make it the best. Saw this gem on the excellent Must Read Soccer (http://mustreadsoccer.com/)

*Aside from the bit stating that draws are invalid because they did not occur in the US War of Independence. In fairness, that might explain why Ireland is so fond of draws/stalemate

RadioRaheem84

23rd June 2010, 14:12

...or the mellow beauty of baseball.

Mellow beauty? OK, the guy is just a douche.

Seriously, American commentators that use the "soccer is boring" clearly do not know anything about football.

CountryKid

23rd June 2010, 14:27

Baseball is boring as hell..

Shit goes on forever just so it doesn't tie, and sometimes the score is the same as an epic Hockey game.

2:0.

Bilan

23rd June 2010, 14:37

Who cares?
Enjoy the game if you do, and don't watch it if you don't.
You shouldn't give credit to worthless opinions.

RadioRaheem84

23rd June 2010, 14:46

Exactly. I mean we're enjoying a game the whole world loves but we're getting worked up over one country that hates the sport. The only thing I wanted was an explanation for their strange behavior.

Bilan

23rd June 2010, 14:47

I The players always seem to grossly exaggerate their injuries, which makes me want to squeeze their faces and tell them to stop being melodramatic children. The goaltenders have such a huge net to deal with they don't even do anything.
.

Oh god, I can sympathise with this big time.

I do like watching football/soccer though. I rarely do it, as the A-League in Australia is not much better than a d-grade European tournament. Probably a lot worse.

Nwoye

23rd June 2010, 17:30

Americans definitely do not hate soccer. Most people I know are pretty enthusiastic about this World Cup. I watched the Algeria game in a bar that was full of people hanging on the edge of their seat until the finish, and when I logged on facebook I was greeted with about 30 different status updates about the game. The reason we don't care much about soccer in the time between World Cups is that the MLS sucks, and we don't get consistent of coverage of foreign leagues (like the EPL) on television over here.

praxis1966

23rd June 2010, 18:02

Oh, but soccer is the most popular sport in the world, you're a philistine for this article. With the risk of sounding like a xenophobe, soccer is only the most popular because the majority of the globe does not have the resources to play American sports. I love playing soccer; I played for nine years of my life. That doesn't make it fun to watch. In no way does it require the strategy of football or the athleticism of basketball. It doesn't have the frenetic pace of hockey or the mellow beauty of baseball. My guess is many European fans (hooligans) enjoy it simply because it gives them an excuse to get tanked up. Of all the major sports, soccer is the most simplistic game. That doesn't make it the best.

I run into this attitude all the time. People think that because they played U12 soccer that they actually know something about the sport. This is why I'm seriously considering working toward an A-license to coach (coached for three years when I lived in FL), but that's kind of beside the point. Anyway, the fact of the matter is, if as an adult you've ever been around youth soccer in this country, you start to realize what a primitive form of the game gets played. Only then, IMHO, do you start to also realize why the US national team has historically underperformed whereas we're so dominant at so many other athletic endeavors.

Case in point: When I first arrived on the coaching scene back in Florida, I coached a middle school team. Somewhere in the first week after tryouts were over, I asked my players who had tried out as defenders if they knew how to build a wall. To my shock, none of them did. I taught them how, and besides sticking defenders on the posts during corner kicks and drilling them over and over on proper tackling and set piece marking, I think that's the reason that in three years we never conceded a single goal on a set piece, whether a corner, free kick, or throw-in in the attacking third.

Anyway, the first season I coached, we were the only team out of 8 in our school district that actually used walls to defend set pieces. The second season, everyone did. I don't mind giving myself a little pat on the back for single handedly changing the way the game was played in my hometown.

But that's a huge part of the problem here. The people making most of the criticism have never played the sport, so they're pretty easy to ignore. However, it's people like this guy who've played this primitive form of the sport criticizing it with an air of authority that easily fool the uninitiated who are the real problem.

Anyway, there's no better evidence than today's match against the Algerians to put the wind up assertions about the game being boring. It was quite honestly one of the most exciting 1 - 0 wins I've ever had the fortune to witness.

Baseball is boring as hell..

Shit goes on forever just so it doesn't tie, and sometimes the score is the same as an epic Hockey game.

2:0.

No shit. The longest game in professional baseball history was between two minor league teams, the Rochester Red Wings and the Pawtucket Red Sox back in 1981. It lasted 33 innings, the final score was 3 - 2 in favor of the Red Sox, and play was actually suspended at one point because it had gone on until after four o'clock in the morning. Funnily enough, I've actually seen a couple of baseball games in the stadium between the same two teams, including one somewhere around 1985 or 1986 when I was a kid. The plastic cup they gave me for my large soda actually had the box score from that game printed on it.

Pavlov's House Party

24th June 2010, 17:31

Canadians don't hate football - we just find it amusing. It's slow and not much happens. We don't understand why defense is written into the rules, and why everyone else loves a sport where you can watch the two minute highlights after the game and pretty much catch everything that happened in the two 45 minutes halves... We also don't understand how you can miss a net that big...

What Canadians do hate about football is all the diving and faking of injuries. Hockey is a rough sport, and people get hurt all the time. But when they are lying on the ice writhing in pain, they are really hurt and really in pain. Many times, guys will go off to the bench, get stitched up or bandaged and keep playing. I've seen guys knocked unconscious only to go to the bench, get a wiff of the smelling salts and they are back out again. Every Edmonton Oilers fan will remember Ryan Smyth losing his teeth after taking a slapshot to the face. As he was getting stitched on the bench they were picking his teeth up and scraping his blood from the ice (notice he wasn't lying on the ground for very long. He got up and skated to the bench). He came back for his next shift and got the assist on the game winning goal. Legends have been created by players who play with broken limbs, torn ligaments, and other terrible injuries.

Every playoffs, there is someone whose jaw gets broken - yet this player will often not miss a game. Hockey players are tough bastards - so when we see the pretty-boy soccer player laying on the pitch after stubbing his toe on the ball, or because his ankle got kicked, we laugh - because it takes much more, often a broken limb or concussion, to get a hockey player to behave like that in public. Hockey players would be embarrassed to behave in such a way - and every hockey player knows that no amount of cold water will alleviate your pain - if you really are in pain.

tl;dr: We're more used to fast paced sports like Hockey and Football, where people get hurt but still tough it out

CountryKid

24th June 2010, 18:17

tl;dr: We're more used to fast paced sports like Hockey and Football, where people get hurt but still tough it out

My only problem with Soccer too.

I laugh whenever you see a guy fall town after having his foot stepped on and then seeing him just lie there. After the doesn't do anything, it's a good lolz for me when he just sits there confused.

praxis1966

24th June 2010, 18:45

Canadians don't hate football - we just find it amusing. It's slow and not much happens.

This isn't entirely true, that is, if you understand what baseball fans refer to as 'the game within the game.' Football/soccer is a very tactical game, but it's tactics aren't readily apparent if you haven't been playing and/or watching it for years. For a response to the speed issue, see my previous post. Besides, it's easy to be fast on ice skates.

We don't understand why defense is written into the rules, and why everyone else loves a sport where you can watch the two minute highlights after the game and pretty much catch everything that happened in the two 45 minutes halves...

The same could be said of hockey in alot of ways.

We also don't understand how you can miss a net that big...

To be fair, I think alot of this has to do with so many players trying to drive the ball through the back of the net and forgetting to actually aim. On the other hand, in football's defense you're required to play the ball with your feet as opposed to a sport like hockey which requires manual dexterity to play the puck, the latter of which is a much easier skill to master if for no better reason than most people don't go around picking things up with their feet all day long. To further the hockey-football comparison, I think alot of 'missing the net' has to do with the fact that you can fit 4 hockey rinks in one football pitch, so you're shooting from alot farther away. On top of this, if you include the goalkeeper in the numbers, most teams defend with 9 men meaning there are alot more bodies between the attacker and the net. Nevermind for a moment that there are occasions when hockey players miss the net so badly that the puck winds up in the stands, so it ain't just footballers missing badly. All of this ignores the obvious short retort: With a net so small and a gigantic glove, how is it that hockey goalkeepers ever fail to make saves?

What Canadians do hate about football is all the diving and faking of injuries.

I completely agree with you here. See my previous posts in this thread.

Hockey is a rough sport, and people get hurt all the time. But when they are lying on the ice writhing in pain, they are really hurt and really in pain. Many times, guys will go off to the bench, get stitched up or bandaged and keep playing...

I think you're missing the forrest for the trees here. You've seen the diving, but you've missed footballers doing the same thing. Didier Drogba broke his arm in training right before the World Cup and has appeared in both of the matches Cote d'Ivoir have played so far. In a 2006 World Cup qualifying match, an American player actually had his two front teeth partially dislodged. His wife, a dental hygenist, made her way down to the locker room, yanked them out of his head, and he was back on the field after half time. Just today, in the Italy - Slovakia match, one of the Slovaks had a 4 inch by 2 inch by 1 inch (deep) gash taken out of his knee by the studs of an Italian player. He trotted off the pitch, had the physio wrap an Ace bandage around it, and he was back on in under 2 minutes. Further, every single weekend in the EPL there's at least one or two players that get head wounds which require stitches. They usually just wrap the head of the injured player and send him back out until they can sew him up at halftime. Meanwhile, he's head butting a ball which has just traveled 60 or 70 yards in the air with a hole in his head, something hockey doesn't require. This is exactly what happened with Gerard Pique of Spain in the group opener against Switzerland. Further, though it ended his season, the compound ankle fracture Eduardo da Silva suffered two seasons ago didn't end his career as he was back on the pitch at the beginning of this season. In the season that just finished, Aaron Ramsey broke his shin clean in half. He's expected back early this fall. In other words, Joe Theisman is a wuss by comparison.

I'm not trying to be rude here, but in the final analysis I think most of your criticisms stem from the fact that you don't watch football/soccer often enough.

RadioRaheem84

25th June 2010, 03:19

I'm not trying to be rude here, but in the final analysis I think most of your criticisms stem from the fact that you don't watch football/soccer often enough.
I think that can be said for nearly every major north american critique of football.

Besides the diving, nay sayers rarely understand or watch the sport but have the loudest opinions against it.

Guerrilla22

25th June 2010, 05:23

Football is enjoyable to watch and all, but it isn't the most exciting sport at times. Sorry, a 0-0 tie is not fun to watch. Also there really isn't any quality football in the US, if you want to watch top level pro football you have to watch European teams and people here don't really feel the connection the way they feel a connection to their hometown teams(s).

FreeFocus

25th June 2010, 05:39

It's kind of a moot question. The entire world loves soccer/football, it only follows that Americans, generally, will dislike it. Things such as peace and football that such lowly creatures as non-Americans like are of little concern to enlightened, civilized Americans.

(sorta kinda sarcastic)

RadioRaheem84

25th June 2010, 16:00

The hatred toward peace is another thing that I do not understand about Americans. "Peace through strength" doesn't count. Some Americans just hate the world for some odd reason.

Football is a world sport and Americans dislike it to seem different.

praxis1966

25th June 2010, 18:33

Football is a world sport and Americans dislike it to seem different.

It's kind of funny how where you're born affects who you are. What I mean is, I think the reason my father got me involved with football/soccer when I was small was because it was an anti-sport sport. In other words, it was a way for his son to participate in youth athletics without being part of all the chauvinism and machismo associated with mainstream sports in America. The guy was a hippie in the 1960s and 70s when the word hippie actually meant something, after all.

Anyhow, I think that my love of footy is only strengthened by the fact that so many Americans hate it. I've always in one way or another been pretty contrary by nature, whether that's taken shape through my politics or being a punk rocker or just mouthing off to authority figures in general. Loving footy is a way for me to simultaneously feed my sports junkie side and give the middle finger to mainstream American culture.

Besides, I did play it [football/soccer] the entire time I was growing up (15 years), so it's not like I'll ever be able to completely toss that aside.

Blake's Baby

26th June 2010, 22:35

leftace53

26th June 2010, 23:14

I'll agree with people in thinking that Americans don't like soccer because of the low scores. Oddly enough I despise the "traditional american" games like basketball and baseball, they're just too boring for me. I like the fast pace of soccer, and the fact that it takes a while to score (usually), the ball is generally all over the place, and it takes a hell lot of skill and cohesion to be good.

FreeFocus

27th June 2010, 05:12

M-26-7

27th June 2010, 05:52

I think the fact that they are no good at soccer reinforces Americans' dislike of it. It's a cyclical thing. I mean, losing to Ghana? No offense to Ghana, but that is the kind of thing that most Americans will probably see and say "alright then, screw soccer." Then again, the U.S. women's soccer team is quite good (ranked number 1 in the world), and Americans seem to care even less about them than they care about the men's world cup.

praxis1966

27th June 2010, 15:17

Hiratsuka

27th June 2010, 16:53

Hiratsuka

27th June 2010, 17:03

I think the fact that they are no good at soccer reinforces Americans' dislike of it.

Good enough to tie the UK.

Wait, I proved your point.

:D

Blake's Baby

27th June 2010, 17:14

Yeah, but the UK as a whole (but not Wales) has to like soccer, because no-one here can play baseball or American football.

National games in the UK: soccer, rugby, cricket, curling.

National games in the UK that other countries don't beat the 'Home Nations' at...

err...

... I think team GB won some curling once. And not every Home Nation sucks at Rugby (partly because All-Ireland Rugby means the added Rugbyriffic power of the Republic too).

RadioRaheem84

27th June 2010, 20:29

Personally, I'm a sports fan, and I love soccer, but nothing compares to US college football

Oh, please. Come off it. I love college ball and am a huge Longhorns fan but it doesn't even compare to real Football. A River Plate v Boca Junior or AC Milan game makes that look like a pee wee sport.

The rest of your post is ridiculous. Look, I respect all sports but I am tired of delusional front that American put up thinking that basketball, baseball, American football or any other Sport American excell at is somehow on par or better than Football.

I get that Kobe Bryant and Manning are good athletes, but get real. GET REAL.

FreeFocus

27th June 2010, 20:35

At this point, given its international popularity, basketball isn't an "American" sport. You could make the argument that baseball isn't either (very popular in Latin America and Japan), although it's true to a much lesser extent. Basketball is the second most popular sport in the world.

I suppose I dislike American football for two reasons: one, Americans love it and go crazy for it, and two, the sport itself - the rules, speed, etc - don't really excite me. People give me weird stares when I say I don't watch the Super Bowl, but I just lol at them.

Sasha

27th June 2010, 20:40

Lenina Rosenweg

27th June 2010, 20:51

I've never been sports oriented, I'm somewhat anti-sports, but I have been watching some World Cup and I could see myself becoming a soccer/football fan.

The "official" US national sport is baseball. For me its like watching paint dry. Its also provincial. The main event is the "World Series" in which only a handful of US cities compete.Several times in the 70s and 80s Taiwan and apan tried to join the World Series but were rebuffed. I could easily see World Series competition catching on in Latin America. But, nah, Americans couldn't stand the prospect of being defeated by non-white foreigners.

I used to live in the Boston area. The enormous hype around the Red Sox has been a big turn off. What reason do I have to care how the "Sox" are doing?

The conformity, machisimo, and right wing nationalism surrounding US football is a big turn off.

Soccer, for all its corruption, is international. Over a billion people watch the World Cup. You could travel around the world and have a conversation with someone about soccer. People in Prague, Moscow, Shanghai, Hong Kong, follow and care about Arsenal, Real Madrid, or Munich AC.

Even though I', not a sports fan, I would like to see soccer continue to rise in the US and replace baseball, football, basketball, etc. The US would be a small step closer to becoming a normal country.

Red Saxon

27th June 2010, 21:27

I grew up playing soccer, and I still get a few snickers from people when I bring up that fact.

When I spent some time in France, it was like heaven being able to talk to people about the sport.

Hiratsuka

28th June 2010, 01:09

Oh, please. Come off it. I love college ball and am a huge Longhorns fan but it doesn't even compare to real Football. A River Plate v Boca Junior or AC Milan game makes that look like a pee wee sport.

The rest of your post is ridiculous. Look, I respect all sports but I am tired of delusional front that American put up thinking that basketball, baseball, American football or any other Sport American excell at is somehow on par or better than Football.

I get that Kobe Bryant and Manning are good athletes, but get real. GET REAL.

There is no objective "best" sport, but I just think American football is much more exciting to play and watch than soccer. And most Americans agree. It's part of their culture. Jeesh, calm down.

Hiratsuka

28th June 2010, 01:15

I've never been sports oriented, I'm somewhat anti-sports, but I have been watching some World Cup and I could see myself becoming a soccer/football fan.

The "official" US national sport is baseball. For me its like watching paint dry. Its also provincial. The main event is the "World Series" in which only a handful of US cities compete.Several times in the 70s and 80s Taiwan and apan tried to join the World Series but were rebuffed. I could easily see World Series competition catching on in Latin America. But, nah, Americans couldn't stand the prospect of being defeated by non-white foreigners.

Even though many of the best baseball players in the MLB are non-white foreigners, right? Latinos, at that.

Hell, the average American sports team (in any national organization) is much more ethnically diverse than anything you would find at the World Cup. No other country can compete with the United States when it comes to diversity. Even countries like India consist of populations that have been regional neighbors for thousands of years.

Pretty Flaco

28th June 2010, 02:35

Yeah, if you're in Britain and want to rebel you have to hate footy. Except in Wales, where presumably you have to hate Rugby.

I think the American dislike of soccer is unlikely to to go into reverse following tonight's game.

My family is Welsh and hates rugby and LOVES football!... but we're in America now!

Which I guess makes us super-heretics.

dubaba

28th June 2010, 02:38

Some games can be alright but honestly I just get tired of seeing people flopping on the ground without even being hit.

praxis1966

28th June 2010, 14:55

Most of these replies are just the inane rantings of Europeans who know nothing about culture across the 'pond' beyond their own stereotypes. Americans dislike sports that are considered 'slow?' Professional golf and NASCAR are two of the most widely-televised sports.

No group cohesion? What do you call basketball, baseball, American football?

American sports culture goes through phases. Hockey was really popular in the 1990s when Canadians flocked into the NHL. Now it's seen as a confused, dying joke. 'Professional wrestling' brandished such names as Hulk Hogan into the public spotlight. Now MMA is much more popular. American football and baseball are and will probably always be the sports of choice.

Personally, I'm a sports fan, and I love soccer, but nothing compares to US college football.

First of all, I'm not a European. Second of all, I know plenty about mainstream American culture. Frankly, though, I find your assessment of American culture as if it were some homogeneous, easily quantifiable entity a bit naive. There are pockets where different sports are popular depending where in the country you are. I can only guess that considering your posts, you probably haven't moved around a whole lot.

Anyway, none of the Americans here are doubting the team cohesion it takes to play sports like hockey and basketball. However, I would doubt (having at some point played both) that baseball and football require all that much team cohesion. Despite the fact baseball is a team sport, it only requires that perhaps 1/3 of the defense actually be directly influencing play at a time (yes, I know everybody shifts on every play, hence the use of the word influence). On offense in baseball, at maximum 4/9 aka less than half the team is actually allowed to participate, during which you need no team cohesion since you have coaches telling you what to do (eg advance to the next base, hold up, steal, slide, bunt, hit and run, etc).

Further, football doesn't really require team cohesion on the whole. Everything is preprogrammed on offense. It's basically as simple as wrote memorization; the opportunities for improvisation as a unit are rare. However, I would agree that playing defense does require alot of cohesion in American football. Anyway, I can't say I have alot of respect for a sport in which if you can consistently run 15 feet before falling down, you're probably considered the best running back to ever play the game.

Contrast those sports (again, I exempt hockey and basketball from this statement, on the other hand it is more difficult to achieve a high degree of cooperation in soccer if for no better reason than you have more people on the field at a time) with proper football, where both offense and defense require constant cohesion and improvisation otherwise you'll never win a match.

Hell, the average American sports team (in any national organization) is much more ethnically diverse than anything you would find at the World Cup. No other country can compete with the United States when it comes to diversity. Even countries like India consist of populations that have been regional neighbors for thousands of years.

Look, buddy, just stop. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Of course teams participating at the World Cup aren't going to be, relatively speaking, all that ethnically diverse because they're national teams. Can you really expect a country as insular as Japan to have an ethnically diverse national team? I mean, things like citizenship are involved here. On the other hand, watch some club football/soccer in a domestic league anywhere in Europe and I think you'll find you'll want to take the above back. By the way, have you taken a look at your own US national team? African Americans, Latinos, Native Americans... I'd say that's pretty goddamned diverse if you ask me, and we're not the only country that's like that either. Besides, has it ever occured to you the fact that 32 different countries, every continent apart from Antartica being represented, is in and of itself a testament to the diversity of ethnicities that play the game?

RadioRaheem84

28th June 2010, 18:42

Some games can be alright but honestly I just get tired of seeing people flopping on the ground without even being hit.

This is such a canard. I think that most people hate the diving involve in football, but I also think that people, especially Americans, misjudge the actual fouls involved and think that a lot of them are just fake ones.

Spanishleft

29th June 2010, 17:11

Its a shame that a sport, which is meant for everyone, is now being made a commodity, a pure source of revenue...

Chicano Shamrock

30th June 2010, 06:41

Just started randomly rooting for a random football club last night.

Chelsea. Fuck yeah. :thumbup1:

Also, Soccer, where I am from, is seen as the sport young homosexuals play before joining the Football team.
Horrible choice. Try LA Galaxy or something closer to you like the Houston Dynamo. Maybe Columbus Crew since both of your states are part of the heartland.

Anyways it's really simple to explain why Americans don't like soccer(although it is a weird time to bring this up now because support of our national team is at an all time high). It's the same reason we drink coffee and not tea. It is an english thing.

Americans have historically wanted to do the opposite of everything Britain does. You have tiny cars... well fuck you I'm going to raise my truck two feet even though I live in an urban area. What was that you don't like guns?... The supreme court just ruled that banning handguns in Chicago is unconstitutional. This ruling says will have profound affects on other cases to further gun ownership rights.

This thread is really unnecessary though because like I said soccer is at an all time high in the USA. It is watched more than Hockey. Nobody watched the Stanley Cup this year but records are being broken with World Cup viewing and presentation. I think some of this is because Americans are realizing it's not English anymore.

We have seen that the English players suck time and time again and that their league is only good because of the foreigners. :P :laugh:

Devrim

30th June 2010, 08:19

LOL at basketball being "boring." The only real pauses in action are for free throws and inbounding, besides that, the game is fast-paced and continuous.

I think basketball is really boring. I understand that it is only a personal opinion, and that others enjoy it. The reason I think it is boring is because basically one team runs up to one end and score, and then the other team does the same ad infinitum. Scoring happens so frequently that it is completely devalued, and the games invariably end 122-124, or something like that.

I don't want a row about it, but that is why I think it is boring.

I think the fact that they are no good at soccer reinforces Americans' dislike of it. It's a cyclical thing. I mean, losing to Ghana? No offense to Ghana, but that is the kind of thing that most Americans will probably see and say "alright then, screw soccer."

I think this is important. America doesn't like the image of itself being a rather poor mid-ranking team.

Then again, the U.S. women's soccer team is quite good (ranked number 1 in the world), and Americans seem to care even less about them than they care about the men's world cup.

As for the last bit, that's because this place has sexists swinging from the rafters, or haven't you noticed?

I don't think it is about sexism. I think the quality of women's soccer is poor. Maybe it is better in the US where it is more popular.

Horrible choice. Try LA Galaxy or something closer to you like the Houston Dynamo. Maybe Columbus Crew since both of your states are part of the heartland.

This sounds really strange to me when I think of parts of cities being teams heartlands.

Devrim

Il Medico

30th June 2010, 11:01

We have seen that the English players suck time and time again and that their league is only good because of the foreigners. :P :laugh:
Kinda like baseball eh?

Chicano Shamrock

30th June 2010, 12:03

This sounds really strange to me when I think of parts of cities being teams heartlands.

Devrim
I am really confused by what you are trying to say. I'm not trying to be a jerk I just didn't understand the statement.

I meant that Arkansas and Ohio are both "heartland" states. Thus he might have more of a geographical/organic connection to a team in Ohio than say a New York team.

Kinda like baseball eh?
Sure I think that is kind of close to the same thing. This is also why I think calling the MLB final the World Series isn't ridiculous nowadays. Major League Baseball is hands down the best baseball league in the world and has the best players from all over the world.

Devrim

30th June 2010, 12:41

I am really confused by what you are trying to say. I'm not trying to be a jerk I just didn't understand the statement.

I meant that Arkansas and Ohio are both "heartland" states. Thus he might have more of a geographical/organic connection to a team in Ohio than say a New York team.

I have completely misunderstood you, and I am not surprised that you didn't get what I meant.

I thought that you meant two states were the heartland of a teams support, in a way like we could say Stretford, and Salford are the heartlands of Manchester United support whereas Moss Side is more City*.

As I understand it now, you are talking about the 'heartland' of the US.

Still the vastness of the US means that most people won't have a local team in the MSL, whereas in Ankara, we have three, last season four,Süper Lig teams, and Istanbul has five. The other ten teams are spread across the West of the country. The East is completely unrepresented, although there was one team from their that was relegated last season.

If you look at the MSL, you have 15 US teams covering 11 states and DC. That is the way it is, and there isn't much that can be done about it, but I think it means that the majority of the population can't form any sort of attachment with a 'local' team.

Devrim

*These are all areas of Manchester.

REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL

30th June 2010, 13:19

Its cause Americans love winning so much they want a game where they're world series only involves playing Canada.

Chicano Shamrock

30th June 2010, 14:22

Its cause Americans love winning so much they want a game where they're world series only involves playing Canada.
Ughhh... What an ugly talking point. Nevermind the fact that I already justified the name World Series four posts above yours.

praxis1966

30th June 2010, 14:44

I don't think it is about sexism. I think the quality of women's soccer is poor. Maybe it is better in the US where it is more popular.

Eh That may be part of it. I mean, there will be a certain portion of male basketball viewers that will never watch the WNBA because they don't dunk, but I don't think that's why most men don't watch women's sports in America. The only sport which has fans more or less in equal measure in the US is tennis, and I have the feeling that at least a small portion of that support comes from men's sexual attraction to the women playing (not what's actually happening on the court). The rest of the population just doesn't really watch women's sports at all, even women.

Devrim

30th June 2010, 15:32

The only sport which has fans more or less in equal measure in the US is tennis, and I have the feeling that at least a small portion of that support comes from men's sexual attraction to the women playing (not what's actually happening on the court).

It may be also to do with men's tennis being a pretty boring game where one players 'aces' his serve, followed by the other whereas women's at least has some rallies. Not that I like watching tennis. It is just what I heard.

Devrim

RadioRaheem84

30th June 2010, 17:12

Sure I think that is kind of close to the same thing. This is also why I think calling the MLB final the World Series isn't ridiculous nowadays. Major League Baseball is hands down the best baseball league in the world and has the best players from all over the world.

Then why don't teams from other countries play?

The Red Next Door

30th June 2010, 18:11

I think soccer is cool, when my friends and i play it, we turn it into a VIOLENCE fast sport.

praxis1966

30th June 2010, 18:29

It may be also to do with men's tennis being a pretty boring game where one players 'aces' his serve, followed by the other whereas women's at least has some rallies. Not that I like watching tennis. It is just what I heard.

You'd be right, but only partially. The type of tennis fan that's going to watch women's tennis for the rallies is probably a tennis purist; they're the kind of person that will watch something other than the "majors" (US Open, French Open, Wimbledon, and Australian Open). I don't have any good numbers on this, but I suspect the more casual US fans (the male ones at least) will probably watch whatever Americans are competing, Roger Federer, the female players they find the best looking, and maybe Rafael Nadal in that order.

Look at it this way. There's a reason why, when she was still playing, Anna Kournikova matches were so highly rated in the US even though she never actually won a single tournament as a professional ever.

Chicano Shamrock

3rd July 2010, 05:26

Then why don't teams from other countries play?
What? Because it's not a tournament based on nationalism... It is the best players in the world regardless of where they were born.

Guerrilla22

3rd July 2010, 06:49

isnt the US going british on the baseball front. i recal that even the dutch team keeps on kicking your ass and here we only have 16 milion ppl and the number of them that care about baseball will be around zero.

Yes, but that is because the "Dutch" team consists entirely of players from the Dutch territories in the Caribbean where baseball is actually popular.

praxis1966

3rd July 2010, 07:55

Then why don't teams from other countries play?

Ahem Toronto Blue Jays.

RadioRaheem84

3rd July 2010, 14:21

There are plenty of teams in Venezuela, Cuba, Dominican republic, Mexico, japan, etc that would love to play.

praxis1966

3rd July 2010, 14:40

There are plenty of teams in Venezuela, Cuba, Dominican republic, Mexico, japan, etc that would love to play.

I don't exactly agree with calling it the World Series either. I was just pointing out that there are teams other than American ones in MLB. Anyway, there's always the World Baseball Classic for international play, although that's national teams so I don't think it's really what you meant.

Pavlov's House Party

3rd July 2010, 16:08

Its cause Americans love winning so much they want a game where they're world series only involves playing Canada.

lol

nevermind that like 3/4 of all hockey players in the NHL are from the former eastern bloc, and the remaining quarter are canadians :lol:. as in almost any sport, american fans hate other american franchises as much as they hate teams from other countries. it's hard to draw a "black and white" line on this

also canadian football teams suck so much we have our own league, because it would be embarassing to watch the montreal alouettes take on the dallas cowboys:laugh:

Guerrilla22

4th July 2010, 02:46

Its cause Americans love winning so much they want a game where they're world series only involves playing Canada.

With the exception of maybe Cuba, all the best players from all over the world play in the Major Leagues. Most teams consist almost entirely of players from Latin America. The same way European football clubs consist of the best players from all over the world.

Then why don't teams from other countries play?

Because all their best players are over here and on other pro teams in other countries have 200 million plus budgets. If other pro teams tried to compete against MLB teams it would be a huge joke.

RadioRaheem84

5th July 2010, 18:13

So they don't let them compete because they " suck"?

Jimmie Higgins

5th July 2010, 19:52

Another reason that the right-wing pundits hate Soccer... during the biggest oil disaster in US history, it gives them a way to avoid having to talk about how inefficient, incompetent, and dangerous big business really is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9MuOO-Uqho&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF5yeDU64hE&feature=related

The Fighting_Crusnik

5th July 2010, 20:01

M'God.... Glenn Beck is making me want to vomit more than ever... and what's worse is that he along with Sarah Palin have many, many sheep thanks to the tea bagger movement...

redsky

6th July 2010, 15:52

Corporate advertising cannot stand 45 minutes of exclusion. Netherlands over Germany.

Reznov

10th July 2010, 23:18

I'm an American and I love Soccer.

I use to dislike Soccer and Baseball until I started watching it more closely and started cheering on my favorite teams.

Andropov

19th July 2010, 14:22

Who cares what Yanks make of Football.
Its really not an issue, if they want to make up their own inane sports so they can claim themselves as the best in the world at it then it matters little to me or the rest of the World.
Football is the international language of the world, its something that transcends nationalitys and languages, it is the great unifier or just very divisive.
Either way it has transcended to being more than a sport, its as much a cultural factor in most of the world as a pastime.
The whole sporting sphere of America is an ugly abomination, the franchise system is a frankenstein.
Clubs are an extension of their communitys in Europe, South America, Africa and Asia.
Granted there are some noteable exceptions of basically corporations in the form of Merchandise United and the like but all in all clubs are a powerfull tool of community mobilisation.
Football is the beautifull game, its the only game that matters to the world, it dwarfs all else.

gorillafuck

19th July 2010, 18:34

Americans act like just because they don't like the sport then that legitimizes their opinion of it.
Do you think that their opinion is not legitimate in some way? This thread is full of such horseshit about how Americans are ignorant or stupid for not liking soccer. Pretentious motherfuckers you all are.

Soccer is boring to watch for a lot of people. That's why people dislike it.

727Goon

19th July 2010, 20:41

Do you think that their opinion is not legitimate in some way? This thread is full of such horseshit about how Americans are ignorant or stupid for not liking soccer. Pretentious motherfuckers you all are.

Soccer is boring to watch for a lot of people. That's why people dislike it.

Exactly. What the fuck is this elitist bullshit? It's just not part of our culture, at least where I grew up as a kid you had basketball, you had football that you played from manhole to manhole, sometimes baseball, but the only people who played soccer were suburban white kids. Even in high school soccer is considered a "white sport" and the kids who play it are probably more well off than most.

727Goon

19th July 2010, 20:43

And what the fuck is up with all this dislike of Americans? For internationalists, yall sure are pretty hung up on what country people are from.

redSHARP

20th July 2010, 04:35

Exactly. What the fuck is this elitist bullshit? It's just not part of our culture, at least where I grew up as a kid you had basketball, you had football that you played from manhole to manhole, sometimes baseball, but the only people who played soccer were suburban white kids. Even in high school soccer is considered a "white sport" and the kids who play it are probably more well off than most.

the kids who played soccer in my town were mixed, all classes and races. interesting you had that experience with soccer in your town. we liked soccer in my town because all you needed was at a bare minimum at least a ball and 4 trees/cones to play. now lacrosse was a huge upper class sport when it first hit my town, but even that became multiclass after cheaper gear (that was just as good) became more available.

i got to back up my fellow comrades. some people like baseball more than football and vice versa. its opinion based. Though i do agree that glenn beck's opinion on soccer/football is total crap. NOTE: he does not represent a typical US citizen!!! (in any shape or form!!!)

Andropov

20th July 2010, 13:59

Even in high school soccer is considered a "white sport" and the kids who play it are probably more well off than most.
You obviously went to a relatively wealthy high school then.
Because what is the life blood of football in America is Hispanic immigrants.
Do you not wonder why it is so common to find live Football on American Stations with Spanish commentary?

progressive_lefty

20th July 2010, 14:05

Agreed.

But we kind of have a similar thing in Australia, because football(or soccer for American translation) is not one of the popular sports, and doesn't get very big crowds.

727Goon

21st July 2010, 03:03

You obviously went to a relatively wealthy high school then.
Because what is the life blood of football in America is Hispanic immigrants.
Do you not wonder why it is so common to find live Football on American Stations with Spanish commentary?

Naw dude I went to a black high school and most of the kids who played soccer where white kids who were bussed in from the suburbs. There weren't too many hispanic kids, I mean I'm Cuban but I played football and certainly more hispanic kids played football than soccer.

Andropov

21st July 2010, 17:05

Naw dude I went to a black high school and most of the kids who played soccer where white kids who were bussed in from the suburbs. There weren't too many hispanic kids, I mean I'm Cuban but I played football and certainly more hispanic kids played football than soccer.
Ironically the likes of Cuba and Puerto Rico are the exception.
Literally any other Latin American Country and its all football.
With the strongest Latin American Leagues being in Mexico, Argentina and Brazil.

praxis1966

21st July 2010, 18:15

In my estimation, the reason why football/soccer in America is seen as a white, middle class sport to a lot of people is because of hippies. As I stated before, my father was a college educated, liberal, ex-hippie who wanted me involved in something athletic but had an aversion to all the macho posturing associated with mainstream American sports. This was a pretty common trend in that era (the late 70s to mid-80s) amongst former hippies who were then breeding. Because the hippies were by and large white college students, it's not surprising things turned out the way they did.

On the other hand, though, I did coach a middle school team in Florida which had a great deal of diversity both in terms of ethnicity and class. We had African Americans, Southeast Asian Americans, Arab Americans, Latin Americans, and run of the mill white kids all on the same squad. We even had a goalkeeper from South Korea that didn't speak a lick of English (although he and I used to sing the Star Wars theme back and forth). The wide array of occupations these kids' parents had meant an equally diverse team in terms of class. Seems to me that the increasing popularity of the sport over the course of the last decade or so is affecting a huge strata of kids. Yeah, football/soccer was predominantly a white, suburban sport 20 years ago, but that's changing rapidly.

727Goon

21st July 2010, 18:19

Saramago

22nd July 2010, 00:09

22nd July 2010, 00:12

i think the question is that we in europe, latin america etc that love soccer, since childs that your family have fun and watch in group a game of soccer, so we begin to get interested in it very soon.
I never watched a game of baseball for example so if i do, the probability of dislike it is high compared to someone that went to stadiums of baseball in his youth.

1 love

not really, i never saw live tennis,baseball, american "football" and many more sports, but i like each and every one of them.Each sport has its own unique thing that makes it attractive.I just think americans reject it, cause media never showed interest to it, and thats because as of recent american teams had nothing good to show in this sport.

Sir Comradical

22nd July 2010, 01:15

In all honesty. Glenn Beck is just trolling, similar to how MLs like to play up their authoritarianness when surrounded by anarchists and trotskyites.

We all know that the greatest sport on the planet is cricket.

Lost In Translation

22nd July 2010, 06:48

Why does America hate soccer (I'm Canadian, forgive me)? Because a large chunk of right-wing idiots think that the enthusiasm shown by mainstream media towards accepting soccer as a sport that can be popular in America is really a ploy by the left. Moreover, many Americans (and the majority of Canadians) believe that the only way to measure accomplishment in sports is by the score. The more goals there are, the more exciting it seems. That's why people here gather around to watch a sport where a person can score 7 points at a time (football), a sport where the score for both teams rarely falls below 80 (basketball), a sport where you can get as much as 4 runs in at a time (baseball), and a sport where somebody gets a point every damn time (tennis). Even when they do embrace sports where the score only goes up by one every time, like hockey, they have to significantly change the rules once in a while, like restrict the goalie's movement, so that it's easier to score (granted, I find tennis and hockey rather entertaining, but not just for the obvious reasons).

Most importantly though, even when some people believe that America should embrace soccer, there are always reactionaries who do shit like this (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-philbin/2010/06/09/media-make-selling-soccer-goal).

TheCultofAbeLincoln

30th July 2010, 04:48

I'm not seeing the right-wing conspiracy. Between Disney (ABC/ESPN), Nike/Adidas, and dozens of sponsors (every stadium's naming rights being owned by a corporation for example), I'm not feeling a xenophobic push to discredit the sport.

If there is one thing, its that a soccer match is 90+ minutes of uninterrupted play, unlike every other sport played here which allows time for many many commercials, making the sport less lucrative to TV deals.

I don't consider myself a fan, but did enjoy the world cup quite a bit, and there was a definite excitement about it that the sport has never seen before in the US. Walking into a bar at noon thats completely crowded to watch games even after the US was out was common were I'm at.

I could definitely see the sport making major gains in the US, especially with the younger generation.

RaÃºl Duke

30th July 2010, 06:33

Because what is the life blood of football in America is Hispanic immigrants.

here weren't too many hispanic kids, I mean I'm Cuban but I played football and certainly more hispanic kids played football than soccer.

Where I lived in Miami, we had a better soccer team than a football team and our soccer team had many South American 1st generation immigrants and 2nd generation playing.

Meanwhile, the football team sucked and it was mostly played by the more apparently "assimilated" hispanics.

Ironically the likes of Cuba and Puerto Rico are the exception.

No body in Puerto Rico plays American football or to my knowledge even remotely likes that sport per se.

Although in Miami I've seen a few Puerto Ricans cheering for an American football team and adopt certain perspectives and practices that would make them odd in the island itself.

I'd say football is a much more working class sport than soccer in America.

That's relative, to me it seems like a suburban sport.

If there is one thing, its that a soccer match is 90+ minutes of uninterrupted play, unlike every other sport played here which allows time for many many commercials, making the sport less lucrative to TV deals.

This is what I love about soccer versus American football. I saw the games where the Saints won and I hated the fact that almost every couple of minutes there was commercial breaks longer than game time. I realize than that American football sucks and is hopeless.

Andropov

1st August 2010, 14:08

When I talk about Assosciation Football I refer to it as Football, not soccer.

Red Commissar

6th August 2010, 05:45

It's not so much this issue that annoys me- I could care less if I'm alone at times in liking soccer/football (though that is not an issue where I live). The problem to me is with other sports in America sometimes calling themselves "world champions" after their respective championships. The most international flavor thrown into American sports is probably the Canadian teams present in the NHL and the handful in the NBA. I know I always hear it with the superbowl, and I can't see how a handegg team can call themselves "World Champions" just playing amongst their American teams.

At least the people who win the World Cup can rightfully call themselves World Champions.

This being said from my experience soccer is gaining more popularity in America every year. Obviously in a much better position than it was back in the 1970s. I think it's got more to grow as well.

I just think the reason why Americans don't like soccer is that it didn't take root early like it did in other countries, and Americans were already busy with Baseball and later American football.

Devrim

6th August 2010, 06:56

This being said from my experience soccer is gaining more popularity in America every year. Obviously in a much better position than it was back in the 1970s. I think it's got more to grow as well.

Why? Looking from abroad it seemed healthy in the 1970s too.

Devrim

Andropov

7th August 2010, 10:59

Why? Looking from abroad it seemed healthy in the 1970s too.

Devrim
It seems the MLS has adopted a far more sustainable model to the American League in the 70s.

Red Commissar

7th August 2010, 23:24

Why? Looking from abroad it seemed healthy in the 1970s too.

Devrim

I guess a more appropriate comparison would be the 1980s. The main league for soccer was the NASL which collapsed in the 1984. As far as I know the NASL had an issue of an overall low attendance across the board. Combined with a large number of teams, it gave the appearance of barely full games and ultimately it kept running into financial issues, and many teams shutting down at once. It never could cut it as profitable. There some remnants of this from old memorabilia I've seen in people who were around then, particularly around the time when Pele was playing with the New York Cosmos.

Following its dissolution it continued in a much smaller form as an indoor soccer league.

It wasn't until 1993 the current football body was formed, the MLS. This was due to a part of a requirement for the US to host the 1994 World Cup, it had to have a professional football league present. I would say it wasn't until at least after 2004 it began to pick up again. And like Andropov said the MLS has found a more profitable and sustainable model. The MLS has already lasted 17 years, just as much as the NASL lasted, and it doesn't look like it's going to go belly up anytime soon.

Though in general the state of football currently in the United States is better than it was in the past, and it seems to be growing in popularity up at least, as many teams are helped by the considerable Latino and immigrant communities in their area. I would say it's gaining slow acceptance by certain parts of America too, seeing as it's probably among one of the most popular youth sports.

Again though, I think it comes down to cultural issues. Soccer/football is not an integral part of American culture as it is in other parts of the world, and children aren't exposed to it early. Many times they might not see it until they are 8 to 10 years old, and by then it looks like a dull game to them. For the same reason I would find cricket dull, while those who are in South Asia find it a fun game because it is prominent in their culture.

As for Americans who feel the need to blast the sport, it's America. These are the same people who go into rages about European countries, so it's not surprising they would take aim at things like this. Thankfully they're just in a minority.

Devrim

8th August 2010, 07:59

I guess a more appropriate comparison would be the 1980s. The main league for soccer was the NASL which collapsed in the 1984. As far as I know the NASL had an issue of an overall low attendance across the board. Combined with a large number of teams, it gave the appearance of barely full games and ultimately it kept running into financial issues, and many teams shutting down at once. It never could cut it as profitable. There some remnants of this from old memorabilia I've seen in people who were around then, particularly around the time when Pele was playing with the New York Cosmos.

What I remember of it was that some of the world's great players played there, Pele, Best, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, and they had some different rules like a strange shoot out replacement for penalties and an off-side line about a third of the way down the pitch.

Devrim

pastradamus

8th August 2010, 10:59

What I remember of it was that some of the world's great players played there, Pele, Best, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, and they had some different rules like a strange shoot out replacement for penalties and an off-side line about a third of the way down the pitch.

Devrim

Haha, Yeah, I watched a few old matches on ESPN the other day and it took me a while to figure that stuff out. :lol:It was a game with Pele & the NY Cosmos I think.

When it comes to the likes of some of the best players to ever play the game like Pele, Cruyff, George Best etc.. playing in the US, What must be taken into account is that most of these guys were either in retirement before hand or about to retire. They were purchased simply to raise the profile of the game - and it worked. We see more of the same today with players such as Beckham,Henry and Rafa Marquez entering the US league - though all three are/were just seeing out their last few years.

What im saying is that, most of the people who grew up pre-1970's in the US would have had very little exposure to the game and so sports such as Baseball and American football would have easily dominated. The 1970's was a catalyst which spawned the first growth of Soccer in the USA. The other major aspect of its current growth is the huge success of the US womens football teams - especially in the 90's, where we see it making major gains as a sport. This was also helped by the Mens team finishing in the final of the confederations cup and doing well in the World cup.

Devrim

8th August 2010, 11:20

When it comes to the likes of some of the best players to ever play the game like Pele, Cruyff, George Best etc.. playing in the US, What must be taken into account is that most of these guys were either in retirement before hand or about to retire.

Pelé 35, Best 30, Cruyff 34, Beckenbauer 32, Cruyff and Beckenbauer both came back and played top league football in Europe after their first spell in the states, and both won their national championships.

Devrim

pastradamus

8th August 2010, 11:46

Pelé 35, Best 30, Cruyff 34, Beckenbauer 32, Cruyff and Beckenbauer both came back and played top league football in Europe after their first spell in the states, and both won their national championships.

Devrim

While I will say Cruyff was impressive when he came home, Beckenbauer lost it very fast after that initial success with Hamburg (just my opinion).

Pele was 35 and after 17 straight seasons with Santos and Best was completely snookered from Alcohol addictions (he even played with my local club Cork Celtic, not to mention geoff hurst,bobby tambling and O'Neill) :)

Red Commissar

9th August 2010, 04:15

What I remember of it was that some of the world's great players played there, Pele, Best, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, and they had some different rules like a strange shoot out replacement for penalties and an off-side line about a third of the way down the pitch.

Devrim

Yeah, the NASL as a marketing strategy brought internationally renown players to play for the teams. This helped with some attendances in games and bring outside attention, though sometimes it blew the budget for some teams. Usually they were older but still managed to make the game entertaining considering their skills compared to homegrown American talent.

The current MLS in order not to blow the budget does not bring in as many high power players, but it is still attempted. The Los Angeles Galaxy brought Beckham over, and they pulled alot to do that. Media tried to hype it, but unsurprisingly he did not make the impact that Pele and others had done for the NASL. Just recently the New York Red Bulls (yes, the energy drink) acquired Thierry Henry who will join another foreign acquisition, Marquez.

They do make deals with European clubs to bring them over for friendly matches. Just recently there was a match between Manchester and the MLS All-Stars (MLS got beat), and Inter Milan just played a match with F.C. Dallas (2-2), with a game against the Galaxy around the corner. These kinds of promotions are common year by year and help for attendance.

And they did mess with rules and what not, justifying it as trying to make it something an American would be familiar with or something. AFAIK the MLS isn't as experimental as the NASL was, though there are still residues of NASL rules in some college programs in the United States.

I think the model as a whole as proved to be more successful, but on an individual basis a number of teams have issues being profitable. We'll see how the future plays out.

Here is a list of the attendance charts for this year with links to two previous years.

http://www.mls-daily.com/2010/03/2010-mls-attendance.html

Andropov

9th August 2010, 10:54

Pele was 35 and after 17 straight seasons with Santos and Best was completely snookered from Alcohol addictions (he even played with my local club Cork Celtic, not to mention geoff hurst,bobby tambling and O'Neill) :)
Were Cork Celtic the Southside team and Cork Hibs the Northside wasnt it?
Rovers greatest superstar was the great Dixie Dean who still holds the most amount of League goals in the English top tier ever. 60 in the League and 100 in the whole season, the record has been left unbroken since 1928.

pastradamus

19th August 2010, 20:55

Were Cork Celtic the Southside team and Cork Hibs the Northside wasnt it?
Rovers greatest superstar was the great Dixie Dean who still holds the most amount of League goals in the English top tier ever. 60 in the League and 100 in the whole season, the record has been left unbroken since 1928.

No, Cork Celtic Played in Turners Cross on the Southside of the City. Cork Hibernians (Named so because they were owned by the AOH) played in Blackrock in Flower Lodge stadium (Now Christy Ring Park). At that period Football was Booming in Cork and Cork Celtic eventually died out because of the lack of funding from the FAI, Lack of Sponsorships and poor chairmanship.

Cork Hibs died out because the AOH decided to sell Flower Lodge and Disband the team due to the financial difficulties it faced. Their Pitch Flower Lodge was seen to be the best pitch in the world. When Man UTD and Leeds played there they were amazed by how good the quality of it was - thats why it was later purchased by the GAA (a property developer wanted to build houses on it but the GAA made sure that didnt happen) - even though it made no sense to buy it with the 45,000 seater Pairc Uí Choimh just 200meters down the road.

nip

22nd August 2010, 03:56

Because futball isn't football.

larrym

22nd August 2010, 04:06

[QUOTE=CountryKid;1781116]Just started randomly rooting for a random football club last night.

Chelsea. Fuck yeah. :thumbup1:

chelsea have a lot of right wing supporters

I.Drink.Your.Milkshake

8th September 2010, 14:26

The "tie" aversion is odd. Ive seen some great 0-0 draws. The spectacle is fantastic - even at a small game, you never forget that first game experience and re-live it everytime you go, walking through back streets of some town, with thousands of others, then walking through the stadium and finally getting to see the pitch. I suspect its a similar experience as American sports, with one exception - the atmosphere is simply better at Football than it is at Baseball, Basketball, HandEgg etc.

On the other hand - I agree with the diving thing, its pathetic and it puts me off immensely. Act like an ADULT, you fucking whimp. I increasingly feel like I need to dehumanize Football in order to enjoy it. Otherwise I find myself wondering why I give a flying fuck about these chav ****s on the telly (I dont pay to watch football anymore). Its 2 hours of my life il never get back, spent living vicariously... which is not living at all. But I guess this is a condemnation of all sports, rather than just Football.

Im love/hate with it at the moment.

Anyway, The real reason I came to this thread, before i got distracted, was to post this, which is pretty funny:

Soccer - America's path to socialism:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBkbj_S3etY

redsky

27th October 2010, 03:23

Some of us follow it and see the grace and power inherent in it. Probably many reasons including some touched on here for our collective bad attitude, and here's another one: follow the money. World football broadcasting simply can't support the constant advertising suffusing our big three or four sport institutions.

Someday the Black Hole will be fully redeemed; the glory that was Oakland will reawaken.

WeAreReborn

27th October 2010, 03:27

I don't know I guess it is too slow and not as easy to watch. But all sports are extremely boring to watch and not that fun to play. Although, the occasional kicking around off the ball can be fun, in general to me it is boring and un-stimulating. Obviously this is just me though.

empiredestoryer

30th October 2010, 02:21

soccor ....i never heard of the word when i was a kid growing up in europe it was always FOOTBALL

I.O.T.M

10th November 2010, 18:21

About players exaggerating injuries, when you're running full pelt and somebody knocks you off balance, it bloody well hurts smacking into the ground. Although, it does annoy me when a player gets caught in the leg, then starts rolling around clutching their face.

timbaly

11th November 2010, 02:10

I don't think most Americans hate soccer I just think they're indifferent towards it. I feel pretty indifferent. I watched almost all the World Cup games but I would rather watch baseball, hockey or basketball than watch European Club soccer or the MLS. The other sports have many more fans and have a much longer presence in the sporting culture. MLS attendance has been getting better over the years but its still weak compared to the NBA (basketball) and NHL ([ice] hockey). Though the average attendance levels are about the same you must understand that the NHL and NBA often play 2 to 4 games a week and therefore draw far more fans. The TV ratings for the MLS are very low in local markets and extremely low nationally. The NHL on Versus (TV network) averages over 33% more viewers than ESPN2s coverage of the MLS even though ESPN2 has about 20 million more subscribers than Versus and the games get more exposure in the national media than the NHL games on Versus.

L.A.P.

11th November 2010, 02:46

I'm American and soccer is by far the most fun sport to play to me because it is non-stop.

Lee Van Cleef

11th November 2010, 03:10

timbaly

11th November 2010, 03:27

I actually think the stereotype of Americans hating soccer is not nearly as true as people think. Soccer is the most popular sport in America for children on both genders, and the game's appeal as a spectator sport has been steadily on the rise. MLS as a league is also making great strides, and steadily moving into the mainstream. A quick example of this is the rapid franchise growth. A new MLS franchise has debuted in both 2009 and 2010, with 2 new franchises planned to start in both 2011 and 2012.

Only one is slated for 2012 and it's in Montreal. The tv ratings on ESPN have not significantly improved in over two seasons. I agree with the rest of what you say. Even though a lot of young kids play it they are encouraged to play "real" sports like baseball, football, basketball, and hockey in the Northeast and Midwest. The amount of children playing soccer dramatically falls off once they get into middle school and high school. Young top American athletes in soccer are encouraged to switch sports or to focus on other sports because they have more promise and career opportunities than soccer.