Nihilism vs Athiesm

[John "Eh" MacDonald]

What exactly are the differences between nihilism and atheism? Is atheism the belief in no god but we are living and nihilism the belief that there is no god and we are living an illusion? I never really understood the concept of this.

[Broletariat]

Nihilism is the idea that nothing matters (correct me if I'm wrong)
Atheism is the lack of a belief in any sort of deity.

I guess you could be a theistic Nihilist?

[Dechristianize]

Nihilism is the idea that nothing matters (correct me if I'm wrong)
Atheism is the lack of a belief in any sort of deity.

I guess you could be a theistic Nihilist?
No, you couldn't be a theistic nihilist. Nihilism is the belief that nothing is better than anything else. There is no meaning to life, no right or wrong, no objective truth, etc. Nihilism basically says no to everything.

[Broletariat]

No, you couldn't be a theistic nihilist. Nihilism is the belief that nothing is better than anything else. There is no meaning to life, no right or wrong, no objective truth, etc. Nihilism basically says no to everything.

I don't think that's an accurate summation of the Nihilist beliefs, surely a Nihilist would not deny that a Shovel is a better tool than a Spoon for purposes of digging.

[The Vegan Marxist]

I don't think that's an accurate summation of the Nihilist beliefs, surely a Nihilist would not deny that a Shovel is a better tool than a Spoon for purposes of digging.

Well, when it comes to small things such as that, it's pretty much blown off as mere semantics. It's under a larger meaning than just mere tools.

[Broletariat]

Well, when it comes to small things such as that, it's pretty much blown off as mere semantics. It's under a larger meaning than just mere tools.
Huh? When someone says "nothing is better than anything else." I take that to mean that they think nothing is better than anything else. I kind of see what you're saying, but the phrase needs to be expanded upon before I can accept it and still feel like I haven't intellectually deprived myself in some way.

[¿Que?]

The atheist says, "God does not exist."

The nihilist says, "Why would he want to?"

No but seriously, nihilism may be the only way out of relativism in that it negates all values, whereas usually we are hopelessly trying to save them.

[Broletariat]

My main issue with Nihilism is that it asks "Why does it matter?" When they ask that I wonder "Does it need to?"

[Dechristianize]

Huh? When someone says "nothing is better than anything else." I take that to mean that they think nothing is better than anything else. I kind of see what you're saying, but the phrase needs to be expanded upon before I can accept it and still feel like I haven't intellectually deprived myself in some way.
I didn't spell it out very well. I meant as far as values go, a nihilist will say they're all equally pointless.

[¿Que?]

I didn't spell it out very well. I meant as far as values go, a nihilist will say they're all equally pointless.
Well, I think nihilists might think values are pointless, but I'm not sure equality has anything to do with nihilism, since it rejects that value as well. Nihilists tend to be hung up on power.

[ContrarianLemming]

The atheist says theres no God, the Nihilist says it doesn't mattr either way

The atheist may believe in a meaning of life, the nihilist wont.

The atheist may believe in objective values, to the nihilist, all values are subjective.

The atheist might say life is inherently wonderious, the nihilist says theres no instrinsic value to life.

I am both.

I'm also a Utilitaraian, which says you decide whether something is right or wrong depending on how much happiness the acton brings to all of humanty, the more happiness, the more pleasure. Pleasure is the driving force of child rearing, he reason we live, nothing grand, we just are
no meaning of life, no gods, no spirits, no objective values, we are what we are because of our ancestors and our society, we believe what we believe not because it is destiny, but because we have applied our subjective morality to the objective universe.

There is a great misconception that, as a Nihilist, I reject morality, I do not, I reject objective morality, I reject the idea that "THIS is always wrong, no matter what"
"why?"
"Cause"
I reject objective morality, we have our morals becuase of the society we were raised in.

Because I think nothing matters does not mean I don't care.

[¿Que?]

The atheist says theres no God, the Nihilist says it doesn't mattr either way

The atheist may believe in a meaning of life, the nihilist wont.

The atheist may believe in objective values, to the nihilist, all values are subjective.

The atheist might say life is inherently wonderious, the nihilist says theres no instrinsic value to life.

I am both.

I'm also a Utilitaraian, which says you decide whether something is right or wrong depending on how much happiness the acton brings to all of humanty, the more happiness, the more pleasure. Pleasure is the driving force of child rearing, he reason we live, nothing grand, we just are
no meaning of life, no gods, no spirits, no objective values, we are what we are because of our ancestors and our society, we believe what we believe not because it is destiny, but because we have applied our subjective morality to the objective universe.

There is a great misconception that, as a Nihilist, I reject morality, I do not, I reject objective morality, I reject the idea that "THIS is always wrong, no matter what"
"why?"
"Cause"
I reject objective morality, we have our morals becuase of the society we were raised in.
You sound more existential than nihilist to me.

[ContrarianLemming]

You sound more existential than nihilist to me.

Existentialism is hard to define, given that it is, broadly, looking at the universe in a philosophical fashion, in which case, all nihilists, utilitarians, objectivsts and theologians are existencialists

[ed miliband]

Re: theistic nihilism. I suppose the Ranters could almost fall into this category. They suggested that everything was God and as such nothing was God, and that there was no such thing as 'sin' because as 'God' is within, everything one does is essentially Godly.

Well, actually they can't be considered nihilistic... but they were pretty interesting.

[Jimmie Higgins]

How can nihilism, as described by people above, and radial leftism not be contradictory?

For me, I'm an atheist, but I don't think you necessarily need to be one to also be a radical leftist (believe that capitalism should be ended and the working class should run society). I do think, though that it's possible for people to come to conclusions that are "more accurate" or "more true" than other conclusions - in other words, I think there are ways to find a more objective truth. Therefore science which can be tested and challenged is not the same as believing in astrology or something. But if you are a nihilist who believes that nothing is more true than anything else, then how can you also say that worker's power is better than capitalist power?

[ContrarianLemming]

How can nihilism, as described by people above, and radial leftism not be contradictory?

For me, I'm an atheist, but I don't think you necessarily need to be one to also be a radical leftist (believe that capitalism should be ended and the working class should run society). I do think, though that it's possible for people to come to conclusions that are "more accurate" or "more true" than other conclusions - in other words, I think there are ways to find a more objective truth. Therefore science which can be tested and challenged is not the same as believing in astrology or something. But if you are a nihilist who believes that nothing is more true than anything else, then how can you also say that worker's power is better than capitalist power?

I never said one truth could never be superior then another, I am saying that it can never be intrinsically true, it is not inherently true, it is true that workers power is better then capitalist power because I have subjectivly decided it is better based on my own subjective morality, that people should be happy.
I am saying that objective morality does not exist, we make it up and slap on the lable "inalienable"

[TheSamsquatch]

Existentialism is hard to define, given that it is, broadly, looking at the universe in a philosophical fashion, in which case, all nihilists, utilitarians, objectivsts and theologians are existencialists

Existentialism basically boils it all down to existence. That there is nothing beyond existence. It rejects metaphysics.
That life has no inherent meaning, so you must give your own life purpose.

Theistic nihilism is a contradictory statement. It's not possible.

[A.R.Amistad]

Nihilism is the belief that nothing can be given meaning. Atheism is, of course, simply the rejection of religious superstitions. Many nihilists retain a belief in God of some sort (Nietzche, I think, did believe in God, for example.) Whereas an non-nihilistic atheist would approach things like philosophy in a materialist and humanist manner, a nihilist would simply ignore it. For example, a nihilist would theoretically reject Newton's laws of motion as "meaningless."

[A.R.Amistad]

How can nihilism, as described by people above, and radial leftism not be contradictory?

For me, I'm an atheist, but I don't think you necessarily need to be one to also be a radical leftist (believe that capitalism should be ended and the working class should run society). I do think, though that it's possible for people to come to conclusions that are "more accurate" or "more true" than other conclusions - in other words, I think there are ways to find a more objective truth. Therefore science which can be tested and challenged is not the same as believing in astrology or something. But if you are a nihilist who believes that nothing is more true than anything else, then how can you also say that worker's power is better than capitalist power?

Humanism!

[ContrarianLemming]

I can't think of a single philosophy which is incompatible with leftism. I am an existiantial Nihilist, a utilitarian, cosmicism, Futurism.
It's all good.

[A.R.Amistad]

I can't think of a single philosophy which is incompatible with leftism. I am an existiantial Nihilist, a utilitarian, cosmicism, Futurism.
It's all good.

Ayn Rand's 'Objectivism" is definitely not compatible with being a leftist. Nor do i think any of Plato's philosophy bodes well.

[A.R.Amistad]

Theistic nihilism is a contradictory statement. It's not possible.

One name: Nietzsche

[ContrarianLemming]

Ayn Rand's 'Objectivism" is definitely not compatible with being a leftist. Nor do i think any of Plato's philosophy bodes well.

good point, however only the political side of objectivism prevents leftism. The purely philosophical "egoist" side of objectivism doesn't.
plato's "republic" was indeed a meritocracy, but i wouldn't call that Plato's philosohophy in it's entireity, just his political views.

[ContrarianLemming]

One name: Nietzsche

"I beleive in God, I just don't care about him"

[CountryKid]

I guess im a Nihilist.


Im a Deist, but I believe life, the universe, and everything was just a joke. One big meaningless crapper.

[bots]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swfItnTUFvY

[A.R.Amistad]

swfItnTUFvY

I'm still a Marxist Humanist :thumbup1:

[Wolf Larson]

Nihilism has been used more to excuse capitalism. Max Stirner, Nietzsche and Schopenhauer have been used by people such as Ayn Rand, Rothbard, Mises etc to excuse the survival of the fittest social Darwinist free market tripe they pushed. I like existential nihilism more along the lines of Sartre or Camus.

"Whats the difference between sitting in a dark room drunk and alone or leading the people to glory?" (Sartre)

Then he goes on to say there is no point to life outside of what you give it BUT with the absence of a god one does not have the right to subscribe to 'might makes right' as many of the egoist/nihilist/capitalists do.

Nihilism can be simplified- making your own purpose and morality in the face of total annihilation after death.

[chegitz guevara]

Nihilism is the belief that nothing has any meaning, objectively or subjectively.

Existentialism is the belief that there is no objective meaning, but that we make our own.

An atheist can be either a nihilist or an existentialist.

[Comrade Gwydion]

I can't think of a single philosophy which is incompatible with leftism. I am an existiantial Nihilist, a utilitarian, cosmicism, Futurism.
It's all good.

I only know futurism as an art-form, but wasn't it associated with mysogyny, fascism, militarism and industrialism?

[ContrarianLemming]

I only know futurism as an art-form, but wasn't it associated with mysogyny, fascism, militarism and industrialism?

Sorry, that was a mistake, I meant Fatalism, a form of determinism.
Yes futurism has been associated with fascism.

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

One name: Nietzsche

Nietzsche wasn't a Nihilist, though. He hated it!

Thats what the quote "So live as if you would wish to live again." is all about!

[TheSamsquatch]

"I beleive in God, I just don't care about him"

Nietzsche did not actually believe in God. He felt it was a human invention, and over time we became enlightened enough to not need the concept.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Humanism!Yes, proudly. I don't know enough about nihilism or other philosophical views to debate it, but personally I don't know how someone can be a Marxist or anarchist without also being a humanist. If it works for others, fine, but as I see it, the idea that people have the potential to organize and change society for the better is inherently humanist.

[La Comédie Noire]

I don't think that's an accurate summation of the Nihilist beliefs, surely a Nihilist would not deny that a Shovel is a better tool than a Spoon for purposes of digging.

Why does it matter if you dig a hole with a spoon or a shovel when it's just going to fill back up with dirt anyways?

That's my take on Nihilism.

[Rafiq]

You could be a theistic Nihilist, but you probably couldn't worship whatever you think is a 'creator'.

[L.A.P.]

Nihilism rejects a certain and major aspect of life, and for most Nihilists this is an objective meaning in life (which would be a mix of existentialism and nihilism called existential nihilism) and morality which I believe in. All Nihilists are Atheists and although I have yet to meet an Atheist who is not a Nihilist it isn't impossible.

[John "Eh" MacDonald]

This thread should have died along time ago...

[Rafiq]

I arose it from the dead

[John "Eh" MacDonald]

How many pages back did you have to go?

[Nuvem]

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thread_Necromancy_3038.jpg

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Most people, here and in general, typically identify all nihilism as existential nihilism, but there are many different forms. At base, nihilism in general could be seen as a sort of strong skepticism, though how that is applied varies greatly.

Existential nihilism posits that life has no meaning or special significance and/or that the human species has no special value.

Ethical nihilism posits that there is no objective morality; that no choice or action is necessarily preferable to any other; that there is no "right" or "wrong."

Epistemological nihilism posits that nothing can be known.

Metaphysical nihilism posits that objective reality may not even exist; that "existence" itself may not even exist.

Political nihilism is a bit different in that posits that things like the state (police, courts, prisons), government, religion, the family, morals, etc., cannot be rationalized and thus shouldn't exist. Political nihilists typically reject the irrational in favor of the scientific.

Nihilist communism (http://libcom.org/library/nihilist-communism-monsieur-dupont) "argues against the conception of 'consciousness raising' and recruiting as practiced by the far left, whereby it is implicitly assumed that the social revolution may be brought about by enough persons spreading communist ideas effectively enough."

[Rafiq]

I just searched Nihilism because I was curious about it