hail the revolution comrades

[ABCofcommunism]

I'll try to keep is brief. English guy live in Cyprus, moving to Newcastle in about 2 months, former national socialist but was thankfully saved by a good comrade of mine who got me out of that rubbish and taught me about communism. I mainly follow the Leninist/Stalinist style of communism, i believe in a strong disciplined communist society like that which developed in the U.S.S.R. Looking forward to meeting many good comrades here :)

[Sasha]

welcome, nice to see that you got cured of nazi sympathys, hang around long enough and we might cure you of that stalinism aswell. heck we might even make an anarchist out of you...

[ABCofcommunism]

i wouldn't be so sure about the anarchism, i just don't see how it can ever work, but i did used to say the same about communism :lol:

[Sasha]

well, dont knock it till you tried it, and its not that that stalinism worked out so well imho

[ABCofcommunism]

well admittedly Stalin was a paranoid murder, but what he achieved can't be disregarded its thanks to his forcing of industrialization that we are free to talk this way and not reside under the Nazi jackboot.

[Q]

Welcome.

I look forward to debating with you.

[ABCofcommunism]

Thank you, and i look forward equally to debating with you

[Nolan]

Welcome! Congratulations on freeing yourself from the shackles of fascist thought. I hope you enjoy your stay here.

My advice for you now: Look into Hoxhaism. (yeah my name is somewhat misleading) And stay away from that political snake oil psycho's trying to sell you. All it cures you of is common sense, with a side effect of breakshitaphilia. :)

We all have our problems with Stalin. But he did more for socialism and the working class than anyone else, and that demands respect.

[Sasha]

We all have our problems with Stalin. But he did more for socialism and the working class than anyone else

like ruining for decades any changes of actual communism and socialism by equaling it to psychotic massmurder and totalitarianism.

[AK]

Welcome :lol:

well admittedly Stalin was a paranoid murder, but what he achieved can't be disregarded its thanks to his forcing of industrialization that we are free to talk this way and not reside under the Nazi jackboot.
The bourgeoisie also industralised Britain... it kinda makes your point irrelevant :)

[ABCofcommunism]

Welcome :lol:

The bourgeoisie also industralised Britain... it kinda makes your point irrelevant :)

thank you and not true the bourgeoisie in Britain industrialised the country to the continuing disadvantage of the working class, Stalin did so for a shorter amount of time, eventually because of his industrialization the citizens of the USSR enjoyed a reasonably good level of living conditions

[Veg_Athei_Socialist]

Welcome. Hope you enjoy your stay.

[AK]

thank you and not true the bourgeoisie in Britain industrialised the country to the continuing disadvantage of the working class, Stalin did so for a shorter amount of time, eventually because of his industrialization the citizens of the USSR enjoyed a reasonably good level of living conditions
Whilst that is true and the USSR can be admired to an extent in that regard, you must also consider the time period in which each was industrialising. Britain was industrialising in the early 1800s but the USSR was industrialising in the early 1900s - the Soviet working class was bound to have it better off.

[Lyev]

Welcome comrade.

The Russian peasantry and proletariat had it pretty bad too. Some were living out of tents like refugees as new cities were being built.

[Guerrilla]

like ruining for decades any changes of actual communism and socialism by equaling it to psychotic massmurder and totalitarianism.

No, like fighting tsarism, propagating Marxism, taking part in the struggle to pave the way for the 1917 revolution, fighting both internal and external foes, industrializing the country, collectivizing agriculture, leading the soviet army to defeat Nazism, defending and developing Marxism-Leninism, assisting struggles of various peoples (including the Chinese), being an irreconcilable enemy of the imperialists and all reactionaries, and helping to make the USSR into a socialist country.

Yes he was a socialist. His good policies vastly outweigh his bad ones. Don’t let the anarchists or the trots convert you.

(some useful links)
http://www.stalinsociety.org.uk/lies.html
http://marxistleninist.wordpress.com/2009/12/20/long-live-the-universal-contributions-of-comrade-joseph-stalin/
http://www.plp.org/books/ (another view of stalin)

[Salabra]

Welcome to RevLeft, Comrade!

[Lyev]

No, like fighting tsarism, propagating Marxism, taking part in the struggle to pave the way for the 1917 revolution, fighting both internal and external foes, industrializing the country, collectivizing agriculture, leading the soviet army to defeat Nazism, defending and developing Marxism-Leninism, assisting struggles of various peoples (including the Chinese), being an irreconcilable enemy of the imperialists and all reactionaries, and helping to make the USSR into a socialist country.

Yes he was a socialist. His good policies vastly outweigh his bad ones. Don’t let the anarchists or the trots convert you.

(some useful links)
http://www.stalinsociety.org.uk/lies.html
http://marxistleninist.wordpress.com/2009/12/20/long-live-the-universal-contributions-of-comrade-joseph-stalin/
http://www.plp.org/books/ (another view of stalin)There's also his class collaborationism; killing anarchists, revolutionaries and anti-fascists in the Spanish Civil War; killing thousands of intellectuals and old party members, i.e., the people who orchestrated the 1917 revolution and trying to give "socialism" down to the working class. As Trotsky wrote in The Revolution Betrayed: "If you remember that the task of socialism is to create a classless society based upon solidarity and the harmonious satisfaction of all needs, there is not yet, in this fundamental sense, a hint of socialism in the Soviet Union."

[ABCofcommunism]

Whilst that is true and the USSR can be admired to an extent in that regard, you must also consider the time period in which each was industrialising. Britain was industrialising in the early 1800s but the USSR was industrialising in the early 1900s - the Soviet working class was bound to have it better off.

No not necessarily while Russia was not completely backwards at the time, it was not advanced enough really to make any difference so while the working class in Britain was better of off because they had 100 years of industrialization Russia didn't don't forget serfdom only ended in the 1860's in Russia.

[Chambered Word]

Welcome to RevLeft, comrade.


No not necessarily while Russia was not completely backwards at the time, it was not advanced enough really to make any difference so while the working class in Britain was better of off because they had 100 years of industrialization Russia didn't don't forget serfdom only ended in the 1860's in Russia.

Industrializing a country =/= socialism. Even if he defended Russia from the Nazis it doesn't make Stalin a socialist. He actually opposed collectivization when Trotsky and others argued for it to be carried out earlier.

As usual the learned Stalinists turn up and cannot actually tell us what made him a good socialist and instead choose to tell us about all his good policies:


No, like fighting tsarism, propagating Marxism, taking part in the struggle to pave the way for the 1917 revolution, fighting both internal and external foes, industrializing the country, collectivizing agriculture, leading the soviet army to defeat Nazism, defending and developing Marxism-Leninism, assisting struggles of various peoples (including the Chinese), being an irreconcilable enemy of the imperialists and all reactionaries, and helping to make the USSR into a socialist country.

Yes he was a socialist. His good policies vastly outweigh his bad ones. Don’t let the anarchists or the trots convert you.

How about the bad ones, like leading the bureaucratic caste to destroy every vestige of Soviet democracy? The Moscow Trials? The Great Purge? The Law of Spikelets? Having anarchists and Bolshevik-Leninists killed internationally (like Lyev said)?

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Perhaps we should just welcome the comrade and save the debates for the correct forums?

Welcome, comrade!

[Chambered Word]

Perhaps we should just welcome the comrade and save the debates for the correct forums?

Welcome, comrade!

True. Someone start a thread.

[AK]

Don’t let the anarchists or the trots convert you.
Presumably into "liberal" scum, amirite?

Liberalism:


a political orientation that favors social progress by reform and by changing laws rather than by revolution
an economic theory advocating free competition and a self-regulating market

Anarchism: political and socio-economical ideology which advocates the destruction of hierarchical social relations (including - but not limited to - class-based society and the state) and the monetary system by means of revolution in favour of a system of co-operative democratic horizontal organisations and voluntary labour.
Trotskyism: Marxist ideology based on the ideas of Leon Trotsky. Principles include Permanent Revolution and the recognition of all the purportedly "socialist" states of the past as deformed or degenerated workers' states.

I see almost no similarity between Anarchism and Liberalism or Trotskyism and Liberalism. The Stalinist and Maoist denunciation of anarchists and Trotskyists is the most bizarre, unfounded strawman ever.

[Q]

Take this sectarian bashing somewhere else please.

[AK]

See I was just disproving their sectarianism.

[ABCofcommunism]

Shall we just draw a line in the sand? we all are dedicated to the overthrow of the capitalists right?, well maybe we should save the infighting till after that. Wow a stalinist willing to compromise bet u never seen that before :tongue_smilie:

[revolution inaction]

Shall we just draw a line in the sand? we all are dedicated to the overthrow of the capitalists right?, well maybe we should save the infighting till after that. Wow a stalinist willing to compromise bet u never seen that before :tongue_smilie:

so long as you adopt the anarchist methods for overthrowing the capitalists, other wise we still disagree about the same stuff as we always have.
And disagreement between anarchists and leninsts is not infighting since we are not on the same side.

[ABCofcommunism]

well i'm afraid i don't exactly see the anarchists overthrowing captalists throughout history where as communism has lets see, china, russia, vietnam to name just 3 examples.

[AK]

well i'm afraid i don't exactly see the anarchists overthrowing captalists throughout history where as communism has lets see, china, russia, vietnam to name just 3 examples.
Overthrow the capitalists...

...subvert the authority and sovereignty of the soviets and give rise to a new ruling class comprised of state and party officials, bureaucrats - and later letting private capitalism run free across the country.

[RedLaw]

A warm welcome to RedLeft from a fellow Leninist. Yes,personal discipline
and societal as well is an important key in construction of the new order.

[revolution inaction]

well i'm afraid i don't exactly see the anarchists overthrowing captalists throughout history where as communism has lets see, china, russia, vietnam to name just 3 examples.

most anarchists are communists, but i assume from you examples that you actual mean leninists when you say communists? in which case you have three examples of leninists implementing capitalism, not overthrowing it.
Also all three are or where authoritative dictatorships, just as anarchists predicted would be the result if an attempt was made to impose socialism from above.

[ABCofcommunism]

my knowledge of communism dictatorship is the whole point, dictatorship of the proletariat and yes china is a capitalist country with a communist face, but Lenin only introduced the N.E.P, only to rebuild the shattered state the u.s.s.r was in, he saw a problem got around it and it lead to the establishment of the strongest communist state the world has known. Anarchism to my knowledge never fought to a standstill and destroyed the greatest threat to the worker (nazi germany and its fascist lackeys). How ever maybe you would care to enlighten me to some of the anarchist achievements (and yes i know there were some but they don't in anyway measure up to communist achievements)

[AK]

Anarchism to my knowledge never fought to a standstill and destroyed the greatest threat to the worker (nazi germany and its fascist lackeys). How ever maybe you would care to enlighten me to some of the anarchist achievements (and yes i know there were some but they don't in anyway measure up to communist achievements)
Does the Spanish Revolution and Civil War count for anything? Anarchists vs. Nazis and fascists.

[Weezer]

Hey look I'm sectarian

[ABCofcommunism]

Does the Spanish Revolution and Civil War count for anything? Anarchists vs. Nazis and fascists.

And i believe they lost didn' they, yes they tried but any real victories are at the hands of communists.

[revolution inaction]

And i believe they lost didn' they, yes they tried but any real victories are at the hands of communists.

what communist would those be?

[Q]

While I'm very flexible in the introductions forum as for new users to explain his/her ideas as part of the welcoming process, this stage seems to have passed now and the atmosphere is growing increasingly nasty for this thread. And that is not the purpose of this forum.

Closed.