Peter Pan syndrome

[turquino]

What are your views on the trend in wealthy industrialized countries for youthfulness and youth culture to extend into a persons twenties and even thirties? Psychologists call it Peter Pan syndrome: adults who are physically mature but avoid the responsibilities of adulthood, choosing instead to prolong their youth. These individuals are delaying marriage, careers, and independence more than older generations.

[tbasherizer]

I think the trend may be more a reflection of higher general enlightenment and increasingly hard economic times. People at the described ages realize that marriage is unnecessary at their age, or that a certain job isn't right for them. I think it represents a greater idea of freedom held by people in their twenties than their lack of responsibility. People staying with their parents may be an economic necessity rather than a prolonged attachment to their parents.

[Raúl Duke]

What are your views on the trend in wealthy industrialized countries for youthfulness and youth culture to extend into a persons twenties and even thirties? Psychologists call it Peter Pan syndrome: adults who are physically mature but avoid the responsibilities of adulthood, choosing instead to prolong their youth. These individuals are delaying marriage, careers, and independence more than older generations.

It depends, I heard of this trend but most of the trend doesn't have to do with Peter Pan syndrome per se but mostly with the hard economic times, etc.

[bcbm]

sounds like a bunch of horseshit to me.

[Decommissioner]

sounds like a bunch of horseshit to me.

Agreed.

I don't believe in "growing up". I believe the concept of growing up is a construct, a way to force proletarians to accept dull and "productive" (for capitalists) lives by forcing them into economic harship. We grow up because we have to. Some people live privileged enough lives (I for example, am not rich, but at the same time I have a pretty big safety net in friends and family) to live a little more freely. For example, I could drop my job at a moments notice in order to travel for a couple months, and to play music. I can afford this because I have community of friends and family who share the same goals and ideas. If one of us loses a job, we got their back before they get a new one. We are educated enough to realize that marriage, careers, and growing up is pretty much a joke. We also realize that we are privileged to be able to say that, since so many others enter into careers and marriage out of necessity (or for those more well off, what they think is a necessity). I decided long ago not to worry about those things, and only embrace things that will make me happy, I don't care if I get fired from my dead end job tomorrow, work for me is just a means to supply enough money for me to be content.

I know plenty of people in their thirties that play music, smoke pot, party and have the time of their lives, and also have jobs as teachers and scientists. I too would love to be a teacher. I feel that would be a fulfilling job, to be able to teach, while doing my best to inspire kids to learn and to actually apply their knowledge to fulfill their dreams, and nore merely just for entering a career for some capitalist. My friend Dave, for example, two years ago taught english for 6 months, and then rode his bicycle across south americ for the rest of the year. To me, that is living, he is in the perfect position to be teaching because he is still experiencing and learning through actually living a free life.

I also know plenty of people who have to hold down multiple jobs in order to feed their kids, and they are barely scraping by. These people had to "grow up" because capitalism forced them to. The social and economic hardships brought by capitalism are both very real and artificial. In a socialist society where we all had the freedom to actually live our lives, embrace the arts, go out just to see human faces, party, and get a free education (without being expected to enter a "career" afterwards), I think we would all be "peter pans". Except instead of calling it peter pan syndrome, we would rightly call it "human beings living their lives to the fullest", because the economic burdens that previously kept us from being more than mere workers have been lifted.

People need to be happy, people need to have fun. For scientists to have come up with a "peter pan syndrome" and not a syndrome based on what we deem "normal", that is, the drive to enter a career in your twenties/settle into a house/get married/stress over getting a high education in order to get a job to feed your kids you somehow felt you needed to have because you grew up in a christian household void of progressive ideas - Is telling of how bourgeois scientists can sometimes be, and how lacking in imagination they are.

Blah, I'm drunk, I need to go to bed.

[Vanguard1917]

Good luck trying to build a mass political movement with people don't feel old enough to take life seriously.


It depends, I heard of this trend but most of the trend doesn't have to do with Peter Pan syndrome per se but mostly with the hard economic times, etc.

Highly unlikely that there's a causal relationship either way. People throughout history have experienced immense economic hardship without turning to a desire to prolong their adolescence. On the contrary, young people (e.g. those who dominated the ranks of the Bolshevik Party and other mass political movements) often recognised that if they wanted to improve their lot, especially collectively, and aspire to changing society for the better, they needed to grow up.

This 'Peter Pan syndrome' is indeed a real modern phenomenon, and it has a lot to do with the diminished state of contemporary political subjectivity.

[Os Cangaceiros]

These individuals are delaying marriage, careers, and independence more than older generations.

"Independence"?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Isn't it obvious? Being young is awesome. You're healthy, you're beautiful, and you feel invincible. True, there are some drawbacks, especially if you're very young, but you're fit enough to thumb your nose at the authorities if you feel like it.

So is it any wonder that those older people with the time and money try to make it last as long as possible, or attempt to re-live it?

[bcbm]

Highly unlikely that there's a causal relationship either way. People throughout history have experienced immense economic hardship without turning to a desire to prolong their adolescence. how is not wanting marriage or a career "prolonging adolescence?"

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

how is not wanting marriage or a career "prolonging adolescence?"

I think there is more to "youth culture" than putting off or avoiding marriages/careers.

[Decommissioner]

Perhaps I don't see the link with youthfulness and "not taking life seriously"?

Why does it have to be considered "youthful" when an adult person lives independently, free to do anything with their life and go anywhere in the world without being tethered to a career? Isn't this what communists want? A society where labor is put in because it is socially necessary, where no one individual spends their life toiling, where individuals aren't constrained by careers and are free to enjoy the arts and explore the world?

If anything, I see people who become contemporary adults to be apathetic and sedated. It is the youth that is on fire, and those adults who've had the chance to live radical lives and be exposed to revolutionary thought when they are young tend to never let go. This isn't youthfulness, this is enlightenment. When you learn about how bad you are getting screwed over in the workplace, it makes it pretty hard to respect notions if subjugating yourself to a life of career slavery. Personally I would love to teach, and I want to become educated in the sciences, however there is no reason these things have to translate into careers. Our educational system has been streamlined to pigeonhole people into slots, therefore undermining the quality of education in the name of producing workers who aren't enlightened, but merely equipped with the knowledge they need to perform a task. I want to learn for the sake of learning, and to spend my working life involved with things I love while keeping my real life as priority and separate.


The way I see it, Most philosophers or persons throughout history who've had the luxury to sit around and think all day were very youthful in their nature. They afforded it because they typically didn't have to toil for a living. I think the traits we ascribe to adults we deem as "normal" are socially constructed. Adults in our society are expected to do nothing but work just to feed children and pay bills. This behavior is reinforced by a lack of education and a strong sense of spirituality (or really, just fear of a vengeful god) and by a real need just to survive in capitalism. Adults in contemporary society resemble children to me in that mentally they are very immature and fragile. They are stunted, and their minds are not fully developed to the degree I believe a human mind should be developed. They marry young and "grow up" fast, meaning they lack any worldly wisdom or advice to pass on to their children, their education stops as soon as they are out of school. This is why apathy spreads to kids, because kids are being raised by "kids", that is, adults who've never reached maturity by living a life and experiencing all the experiences in the world.

I think the priorities of society should change. Making babies and getting married isn't a miracle. Working the same job all your life just to own a big house is not admirable. We should strive for education, but not just that, we should strive for peace and enlightenment within the individual, and promote adventure and happiness. We should applaud people who achieve all they can in life, without actually "contributing" (ie being exploited by capitalists) to society, but rather contribute with their stories and their wisdom. We should applaud those who raise children that aren't zombified by television sets and actually have a willingness to explore and learn. We should applaud those who fight for social change, and promote labor as an extension of the human will, while fighting to eliminate labor as a form of enslavement by capitalists. People who do fight these fights are in no way "adults" as we know them today, they are individuals who live free and live with purpose. They are not passified, they are on fire. They don't view bills as responsibility (even if they responsibly pay them, as we all do), they view them as a form of enslavement that needs to be done away with.

But I could be wasting my breath, I should probably ask what all does peter pan syndrome entail? Is it pointed towards adults out there who literally act like children?

[bcbm]

I think there is more to "youth culture" than putting off or avoiding marriages/careers.

i'm referring to the op which specifically mentions those institutions.

[ZeroNowhere]

Kiley theorized that some individuals mature into adulthood physically, but retain the minds of children. They have difficulty in social situations, and often behave with extreme immaturity, refusing to take on adult responsibilities, engaging in childish behavior and emotional extremes, and experiencing outbursts of anger and other emotions. Kiley coined the term “Peter Pan syndrome” to describe this, arguing that the syndrome was seen primarily in men.
The idea that some people refuse to grow up is hardly new. Jung wrote extensively about the puer aeternus or “eternal boy” in his works, for example. People with Peter Pan syndrome suffer in social situations because they are unable to mentally process adult issues, and their responses to events in their lives are childlike. The syndrome probably arises from issues with socialization which occur during childhood, with children not being given a chance to grow up, and some psychologists have theorized that overprotective parenting may play a large role in the emergence of Peter Pan syndrome.




Dan Kiley authored the book, The Peter Pan Syndrome (1983). Based on research of the effects of male socialization on relationships, Kiley developed the clinical diagnosis of the Peter Pan Syndrome. Males diagnosed with having this syndrome exhibit the following psychological traits:



Emotions become paralyzed and exaggerated
Anger turns into rage
Joy turns into hysteria
Disappointment develops into depression or self-pity

How the Peter Pan Syndrome Affects Men’s Lives

Males diagnosed with this syndrome


Have difficulty expressing love
Refuse to share their feelings
Lose touch with their emotions and have no idea what they feel
Procrastinate
Feel guilt and have difficulty in relaxing
Have no real connection with friends. Believes friends can only be bought
Easily panic and feel desperately alone in their attempts to belong

The idea of apologizing for inappropriate behavior is not an option. Blame is placed on other’s shortcomings so they do not have to focus on their own limitations and vulnerabilities. Alcohol or drug abuse is used to get high in order to drown out the existence of daily life challenges.
Relationships with Parents

Men suffering from the Peter Pan Syndrome have a


Hang up with their mother
The anger and guilt they feel are interwoven, masking their conflicted feelings for the mother
The relationship with the father is estranged
They believe that the father’s love and approval are unobtainable
Have problems with authority figures
Tend to be emotionally immature
Exhibit silly behavior
Have a macho attitude that hides their deep inner insecurities in attempts to hide the fear of rejection

Relationships with Women

When the male forms attachment with a woman they


Become extremely jealous and exhibit violent outbursts
Become easily provoked to fits of rage when a woman asserts any independence

A woman’s dependency is important for the male to feel protective of the woman. The fear of impotency and rejection contributes to verbally abusive behavior. The male strives to patronize the woman and appear strong and assertive when actually, feels threatened by the woman’s independence. The fear of appearing weak and unmanly in front of friends causes the male to deny any desire to share their own sensitivity with women.


What exactly this has to do with Peter Pan is unclear, but there you go.

[Old Man Diogenes]

Good luck trying to build a mass political movement with people don't feel old enough to take life seriously.

I think there's a difference between mental maturity and the sort of "growing up" some people here are referring to. What I interpret, rightly or wrongly, that some people on this thread mean when they say they are against "growing up" in a capitalist society, is not the infantile refusal to grow from adult to child and to take on responsibilities resulting from such a change, but a refusal to be funnelled into a career which they have no aptitude, love, or even like for or being pressured into, and in some societies made, to marry someone for whom they have no true love. I think what they are raging against is the centralized control in determining people's lives, rather than people being in direct control of their own life and that, in capitalist society, growing up means a denial of the right everyone has to live the life in their own way and to accept the responsibilities that come with such a right.

Also, I find that growing up in a capitalist society often renders many unable, to quote yourself, to think about how "to [truly] improve their lot, especially collectively... changing society for the better", socializing most into fatalistic attitudes, or as I like to call it, the 'that's how it is' mentality.